ZSS Matchup Ratios

[xxpatgxx]

Nick Riddle why do you think ZSS vs DEDEDE is 70:30 all he needs to do is grab us like 6 times and uptilt kill us at 90. I know you have arguably the best D3 in the nation to practice with , can you explain to me the matchup?

Edited

 

[Zero]

Nick Riddle why do you think ZSS vs DEDEDE is 70:30 all he needs to do is grab us like 6 times and uptilt kill us at 90. I know you have arguably the best D3 in the nation, can you explain to me the matchup?

rofl

10laughs

 

[NickRiddle]

Nick Riddle why do you think ZSS vs DEDEDE is 70:30 all he needs to do is grab us like 6 times and uptilt kill us at 90. I know you have arguably the best D3 in the nation, can you explain to me the matchup?

Step 1: Run away
Step 2: Repeat step one.
Step 3: At any possible opening, hit DDD.
Step 4: Hope he does something laggy at low % and CG his ***.
Step 5: Repeat step one.
Step 6: Do not play on BF, since step 1 is hindered.

That's it.
Also, when you're at kill %... don't be right next to DDD. There goes utilt.

 

[ph00tbag]

Step 1: Run away
Step 2: Repeat step one.
Step 3: At any possible opening, hit DDD.
Step 4: Hope he does something laggy at low % and CG his ***.
Step 5: Repeat step one.
Step 6: Do not play on BF, since step 1 is hindered.

That's it.
Also, when you're at kill %... don't be right next to DDD. There goes utilt.

Odd, that's how I find myself playing against MOST of the cast.

 

[NickRiddle]

Odd, that's how I find myself playing against MOST of the cast.

Yeah, but DDD cannot catch you.
At all.
:3

 

[Zero]

It reminds me of that song from the first Pokemon movie.

Catch me if you can!

 

[Magik0722]

Why arent you guys listing ZSS vs PT a 7:3?

 

[SASSY]

Squirtle etc.

 

[xxpatgxx]

Alright thanks Nick Riddle

 

[xxpatgxx]

Can you help me with snake too?

 

[TheRockSays]

hmm nickriddle i need ur help i created quite possibly a monster i mean my pupil I made him so good he can beat me with gannon me using ZSS(i don't play everyday he does.)I mean really i taught him everything i know of every possible character. He surpassed me and it might be that he got use to my play style what should i do?

 

[NickRiddle]

hmm nickriddle i need ur help i created quite possibly a monster i mean my pupil I made him so good he can beat me with gannon me using ZSS(i don't play everyday he does.)I mean really i taught him everything i know of every possible character. He surpassed me and it might be that he got use to my play style what should i do?

Camp... it's Ganon...

Can you help me with snake too?

Umm... good luck. I think we lose pretty badly.
Combo the **** out of him, and don't get f-tilted too much.

 

[noradseven]

And by camp nick riddles doesn't mean spam over B(maybe he does), but I think he means you should just not aggressively go after him and wait for ganon to make the first move.

As a big ganon player myself I can tell you, we don't have a safe way of doing anything to you, however we can trick you or scare you into reacting poorly or even better being aggressive, at which point you can be in a world of hurt.

Umm... good luck. I think we lose pretty badly.
Combo the **** out of him, and don't get f-tilted too much.

Really I lose to our good snake player here ALOT, but then again I don't have a snake in casuals and he is the only snake I know that doesn't suck ballz, so I just figured it was lack of matchup exp, because I mean I do see that if we get him in the air he the **** comboed out of him but due to the way he works it seems like he only needs to poke us a few times to get a stock too.

So yeah I could totally believe thats its worse than what I put 60:40 Snake, but I can't belive this match could be better than even after playing it

 

[NickRiddle]

And by camp nick riddles doesn't mean spam over B(maybe he does), but I think he means you should just not aggressively go after him and wait for ganon to make the first move. Paralyzer/Whip camping is what I mean.

As a big ganon player myself I can tell you, we don't have a safe way of doing anything to you, however we can trick you or scare you into reacting poorly or even better being aggressive, at which point you can be in a world of hurt.



Really I lose to our good snake player here ALOT, but then again I don't have a snake in casuals and he is the only snake I know that doesn't suck ballz, so I just figured it was lack of matchup exp, because I mean I do see that if we get him in the air he the **** comboed out of him but due to the way he works it seems like he only needs to poke us a few times to get a stock too.Snake has the best pressure in the game, and ZSS really has no way around it, other than hoping that you sheild poke or he blows himself up. I still have no idea how to react to him walking at you with a grenade in hand. (Other than the afore mentioned options.)

So yeah I could totally believe thats its worse than what I put 60:40 Snake, but I can't belive this match could be better than even after playing it

I love red text.

 

[Nefarious B]

Dsmash seems like a pretty safe option if he's doing the walking nade approach. He limits his options by doing that to just grab shield dodge roll or toss, if you space it right he can't roll behind you, and dsmash blows the nade without damaging you if you space correctly.

I really like rising SH bair on snake in general but if he has a nade in hand you'll probly pop it

 

[NickRiddle]

Dsmash seems like a pretty safe option if he's doing the walking nade approach. He limits his options by doing that to just grab shield dodge roll or toss, if you space it right he can't roll behind you, and dsmash blows the nade without damaging you if you space correctly.

I really like rising SH bair on snake in general but if he has a nade in hand you'll probly pop it

He tosses out of your range, and you take 3 damage.
Now you're losing. Approach.

 

[Nefarious B]

If you see him going into the fast toss just outside of dsmash range I think you have enough time to DA him before he can act, if it's soft toss you can shield or do the instant air throw back

 

[TheRockSays]

ok i will try camping him.

 

[xxpatgxx]

The snake vs ZSS matchup is hard because if you're playing an amazing snake you have to completely outplay him the entire set to win obviously. I'm not completely clueless on how to counterpick snake, but if Rainbow Cruise gets banned, where else should you take snake, that's good for ZSS, but bad for him?

 

[Nefarious B]

I'm actually pretty curious where people CP snake, I haven't had much success against the good ones I've played CPing brinstar

 

[solecalibur]

I'm actually pretty curious where people CP snake, I haven't had much success against the good ones I've played CPing brinstar

Brinstar or PS1 or Halberd
it seems more of a state of mind snakes think that there good on halberd i've had the "edge" on that stage even if I lose it looks like I know/use the stage more effectively then they do and its just their skill level beating me

 

[NickRiddle]

The snake vs ZSS matchup is hard because if you're playing an amazing snake you have to completely outplay him the entire set to win obviously. I'm not completely clueless on how to counterpick snake, but if Rainbow Cruise gets banned, where else should you take snake, that's good for ZSS, but bad for him?

Cruise isn't even that good of a CP vs. Snake. His movement is only limited while the stage is rising. Personally, I like Delfino/Castle Siege vs. Snake. The walkoffs are fun, and stages like that give us lots of room to run.

I'm actually pretty curious where people CP snake, I haven't had much success against the good ones I've played CPing brinstar

Brinstar is one of Snake's best levels.

Brinstar or PS1 or Halberd
it seems more of a state of mind snakes think that there good on halberd i've had the "edge" on that stage even if I lose it looks like I know/use the stage more effectively then they do and its just their skill level beating me

PS1 is the only one on this list that makes sense.

 

[ph00tbag]

Never take a Snake to Halberd.

Ever.

Brinstar is alright. It's no worse there for us than it is on most other stages, and if you feel more comfortable there than on a neutral, it could work out for you.

 

[Zero]

Why the hell would you feel comfortable taking Snake to Halberd? It's a death wish.

 

[noradseven]

lol take snake to FD DO IT. If there is a platform snake can camp under that you can't safely attack from the side don't pick it, aka halberd/yoshi's, just don't ****ing do it.

 

[Rajam]

Hi! Can be the first post updated with the most accepted ratio for each character? I'd like to add those ratios to my chart: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226315
Thanks in advance

 

[ph00tbag]

Why the hell would you feel comfortable taking Snake to Halberd? It's a death wish.

I never said anyone should feel comfortable taking Snake to Halberd.

 

[Nefarious B]

Okay so I just averaged our results, adjusted for differences in matchup rating systems, and rounded, here's what I got so I guess you can use this in your matchup chart though it's just group opinions so take it for what it's worth:

MK: 40-60
Snake: 45-55
Wario: 50-50
Falco: 35-65
Diddy: 45-55
DDD: 60-40

Marth: 50-50
GaW: 55-45
Pika: 50-50
Olimar: 40-60
ICs: 55-45
ROB: 65-35
Kirby: 60-40

Lucario: 45-55
ZSS: Mirror
Toon Link: 55-45
Pit: 50-50
DK: 60-40

Peach: 50-50
Luigi: 50-50
Fox: 50-50
Wolf: 50-50
Sonic: 60-40
Sheik: 50-50

Ive got class, I'll do bottom tier when I'm back

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Olimar in his advantage?
The average of you and norad, right?

 

[Nefarious B]

All the ratios I used are on the first page

 

[xxpatgxx]

Delfino and Castle Siege actually have lots of room for us to run, alright I'll have to learn theses stages and control them well.

 

[noradseven]

lol actually I think that charts getting sorta accurate... it kinda shows that we struggle on every match lol. I still find lucario worse than that, everything else I could argue a bit but even then who cares its **** close all over.

still want MK and snake to be flipped though but whatevs.

 

[NickRiddle]

So... how do you beat Pikachu? ESAM keeps wrecking my ****.
35:65

 

[solecalibur]

So... how do you beat Pikachu? ESAM keeps wrecking my ****.
35:65

noo wai its like 50 / 50 once you know the MU or 55/45 (pika/zss) at best

 

[NickRiddle]

noo wai its like 50 / 50 once you know the MU or 55/45 (pika/zss) at best

Then I'm terrible I guess, even though I'm 100% sure that ESAM and I know the MU better than any Pika/ZSS in the country.

 

[Zero]

Well, let's step through it. How is he besting you consistently?

 

[NickRiddle]

Well, let's step through it. How is he besting you consistently?

He runs into me any time I might use a move, so I cannot space. Pikachu seems like he can punish any move that works on him, and any move that he cannot space, he doesn't get hit by. (Down-tilt.) He blocks/punishes almost any aerial I do, he kills me earlier than I kill him with up-move > thunder or edgeguarding. I cannot punish a lot of his attacks on sheild, and I cannot grab his shield... making him way too safe for ZSS to handle IMO.

Basically, anything I try to do I get punished for, and anything he does I have a hard time/cannot punish.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

It's fascinating that everyone with a regular playing partner (me with Dark.Pch, Nick with ESAM, Snakeee with Shadow, Nef with his Olimar friend, norad and his lucario friend) is pretty convinced that their partner's main character beats ZSS in some nearly unwinnable way. Could that be because ZSS is easy to beat once you know the matchup with almost any character?

I think so.

Re: Nick, Pikachu beats ZSS, but you need to use Nair more to squelch his approaches. Autocancelled it has no lag and beats his projectile and most of his aerials.

 

[NickRiddle]

It's fascinating that everyone with a regular playing partner (me with Dark.Pch, Nick with ESAM, Snakeee with Shadow, Nef with his Olimar friend, norad and his lucario friend) is pretty convinced that their partner's main character beats ZSS in some nearly unwinnable way. Could that be because ZSS is easy to beat once you know the matchup with almost any character?

I think so.

Re: Nick, Pikachu beats ZSS, but you need to use Nair more to squelch his approaches. Autocancelled it has no lag and beats his projectile and most of his aerials.

Haha, whenever I jump, be in SH or FH, since I cannot do a rising aerial on Pikachu, he is already under me waiting to PS/Grab my aerial. The only option that would surprise him is Dair, and it would only work once. Pikachu is too fast.

Also, my other training partner is Seibrik, but I think the MK/ZSS matchup is even. GO figure.

 

[Zero]

How about a crossup?