ZSS Matchup Ratios

[Nefarious B]

Uair is 4 frames. That might not be fast enough to get in between dairs at 10 frames by including the SH if the peach is sitting on top of us spamming them. However, you can do jump canceled usmash OOS if they're staying above you spamming and that's 8 frames.

If the peach hits your shield then retreats away you have more options, as uair fair bair or nair can all hit her at that height, and all of those will beat peach dair either by spacing around it or in the case of uair, just flat out beating it (this spacing is really impractical though, it's very easy to mess up)

 

[Dark.Pch]

Uair is 3 or 4 frames I think.

Frame data is not all there is to attacks. Range/hitboxes play a big role, and I'm pretty sure ZSS's are better.

D-smash can hit a sweet-spotted parasol, if I time it/space it correctly. From there, I footstool you. GG.

I know Range and hit hitboxes play a role. I check them out.

And for your lil downB idea. if I am not so close to the stage and I got for a sweet spot, not happening.I have to do an up-B so around the time she opens it, the magnet/sweetspot kicks in, and you can't touch me.

And Peach is not an easy character to gimp, so imagine you trying to rely on gimps.

Uair is 4 frames. That might not be fast enough to get in between dairs at 10 frames by including the SH if the peach is sitting on top of us spamming them. However, you can do jump canceled usmash OOS if they're staying above you spamming and that's 8 frames.

If the peach hits your shield then retreats away you have more options, as uair fair bair or nair can all hit her at that height, and all of those will beat peach dair either by spacing around it or in the case of uair, just flat out beating it (this spacing is really impractical though, it's very easy to mess up)

Thats why Peach should not be tying to stay over you and Dair. Short hop is what she should be doing.

If Peach floats to an ait attack then floats away, that is stupid of her to do. Her float is slow and leaves her open. If I float to Dair, Peach should fall before the moves end to a Niar of bair Then follow up with a reverse combo, attack, or roll away if anything. Ether way I get away and you can't do anything. And if you try to akkact me out of the shield, keep in mind hit stun and how long it takes to trp the shield to an attack.

This strat only works if the Peach decides to Move away by floating from a Dair. Which is silly.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

zss uair beats peach dair if spaced correctly, combine that with peach's falling speed and airdodge.
besides how is peach gonna approach through nb?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Peach does NOT have to approach ZSS but she can if she wants.

 

[NickRiddle]

Peach does NOT have to approach ZSS but she can if she wants.

If she's losing she has to.
How does Peach get damage first in this MU?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Turnips>ZSS camping

 

[NickRiddle]

Turnips>ZSS camping

So... she gets damage first... with turnips?
Also, just dodge them.
I know it's not that easy... but I mean... you can hit Peach while she's pulling them.
Or, you can catch them and throw them back.

 

[Dark.Pch]

zss uair beats peach dair if spaced correctly, combine that with peach's falling speed and airdodge.
besides how is peach gonna approach through nb?

How can peach not approach through that move.............

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

you have to attack/airdodge to avoid it, but it has like 0 ending lag if you use it on the right distance which means we can pretty much punish with uair(aerial) or dash attack (grounded) because zss uair hitbox > all peachs aerials from below

if you ps it we still have the advantage because you're forced to shield + shieldrop (8 frames total + 1 for powershield itself = 9frames) which means that we basicly have a small advantage which is abusable. I know **** about powershielding projectiles <coming from a falco main

 

[Dark.Pch]

Where you get this idea Peach has to air dodge to avoid a N-B? Or attack for that matter. Just who have you been playing that simply can't get through that move?

If N-B is seriously a problem for Peach players to get through and even punish you for it, then they seriously don't know how to use Peach correactly, yet alone the match up.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

youre saying you go THROUGH the move.

make some sense now thanks. HOW DO YOU REPEL THE ATTACK IF IT'S FIRED DIRECTLY AT YOU WITHOUT PUTTING YOURSELF IN A DISADVANTAGED POSITION.

 

[NickRiddle]

youre saying you go THROUGH the move.

make some sense now thanks. HOW DO YOU REPEL THE ATTACK IF IT'S FIRED DIRECTLY AT YOU WITHOUT PUTTING YOURSELF IN A DISADVANTAGED POSITION.

The float over ground n-b, and we cannot spam jump n-b as well.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

spam? who talked about spam?

 

[NickRiddle]

spam? who talked about spam?

If you are not setting it up as a wall... why would anybody have to move through it?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

just 1 forces a reply already, wouldn't that lead to interesting results depending on how peach deals with it?
attack through it = uair punish
PS = forced shield drop (eventually) and more ****.

methinks you catch my drift.

 

[NickRiddle]

just 1 forces a reply already, wouldn't that lead to interesting results depending on how peach deals with it?
attack through it = uair punish
PS = forced shield drop (eventually) and more ****.

methinks you catch my drift.

If it's at the range where we have no lag for it, we couldn't follow up. All Peach would have to do is auto-cancel an aerial, and be in a neutral position again.
That's easy.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

i disagree.

doing an autocancel aerial still induces lag, it's a favorable position for us.

 

[noradseven]

Peach could see the startup of our move, and either be able to smack us or clash with it while moving backwards....

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

why are you so close to peach

 

[noradseven]

why are you so close to peach

if we were farther she could just clash and retreat, the only advatage of this is perhaps you would get a step forward or so but if you want to do it a second time, you would have to move back again...

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

reset situation is a good thing as peach likes momentum

 

[Dark.Pch]

why are you so close to peach

Cause Peach is good at zoning in and approaching. Even if he did not wanna be close, he really does not have much of a choice. Peach has no Problem getting inside ZSS.

And for you last post, no dude, it's not that simple.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

*shrug* just never really had problems with the mu cuz of jab/juggles