ZSS General Discussion

[infiniteV115]

We finally have an uploader in our region and vids from tournies back in like November are being put up now.
(Everything from then to now is in the process is being uploaded basically)

 

[1PokeMastr]

That's actually very interesting. Are you positive it has nothing to do with the stage/character texture? It does look like the hacks are purely visual though, so I'll test that out later.

It's happened to Masha before, and to me on several occasions, only on battlefield, though.

 

[Dakpo]

It's the reason I asked for the bracket in the HOBO thread. Glad to hear you're doing better against Denti and your wrist is all healed up.

Recently I've been feeling better and better about the Olimar MU. I used to think it was potentially -2, now I'm considering it close to even, though this may just be because I've been having no trouble with Tin Man recently. We'll see.

Thanks
I'm doing leagues better against Olimar now! I can say is a -1 with confidence now

 

[infiniteV115]

In case you haven't been doing it already, Fino said that the main thing that threw him off when I played him was that I punished landings with dtilt.

 

[Dakpo]

Hmmm I'll try that more. He said you ***** him with down Tilt, but he never said how,

 

[Coolwhip]

Sup guys.....

I've been practicing with zamus as of late. Played abunch of friendlies at a tourney
last weekend with her. One guy asked me "do you watch videos of salem?
You do some of the same stuff he does." I couldn't help but laugh. Salem is amazing though.

 

[PEACE7]

I feel like ZSS has so many good ways of been played for me I add new things to mine as i go, sometimes by accident ill press the wrong command and get something interesting than i go to training mode and try and find good uses for it. I enjoy learning about little things such as what SFP does in his videos little by little i keep adding until i have my own style made from bits and pieces of what i see, think of and from random research i do on my own.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Yeah there are lots of solid ZSS playstyles. I think different playstyles work well against different characters.

 

[infiniteV115]

Especially Olimar. You have to play completely differently in that MU. Can't really juggle, can't use dsmash that much, have to rely on jabs/tilts/dash attack. Olimar however doesn't have to revamp his playstyle very much. That's why the MU is like -3 if you're not used to it XD

 

[Heero Yuy]

How many of you fellas use AiB? Since it's a lot tougher finding people on here to face, I just resort there to play some people to improve my ZSS. Idk, I've been hearing mixed reviews about the site saying it's not as competitive as Smashboards and it's too much of a social site.

 

[PEACE7]

I go on it every once in a while to play some WiFi its good practice and helps a lot in learning MUs as long as you play to improve and learn as well as trying not to rely on the lag to win you games because otherwise I see no point it also helps you to get better with reads. There's plenty of good talent online and a lot of those talented online players will be on AIB.

 

[infiniteV115]

Where do you live dude? There might already be an active offline Brawl scene around where you live.
I mention this because offline playing is pretty much superior to online in every way imaginable (assuming your goal is to get good at competitive Brawl) except that online play is more accessible (free, you don't have to travel, and you have access to way more players so you become familiar with more playstyles and more characters)
If you can reasonably find people to play offline, do it. If it's not reasonable for you to do so (have to spend too much money, travel too far, etc) then I guess Wifi is your only option (in which case AiB is probably the best place for you to go I guess) but you should really look into offline play as a possibility before you decide to just stick to Wifi forever.

As for now, all I can really help you with is to make sure the people you're playing on Wifi aren't trash. Since there are a few people in my region who play on AiB, and they obviously have ZSS exp cause I play with them offline, I can give you some names and you practice with them. Tell them that V115 (that's me) pointed you in their direction cause you wanted some good competition, and they'll probably be nicer to you/not troll you. No guarantees though obviously.

Blacktwins (ICs/Yoshi/Lucas and a few secondaries)
Chris Fisch (Falco/Diddy/MK)
1PokeMastr/Poke (Falco/DK/Marth/DDD)
Meekspeedy (Sonic/MK)
Suzaku/Dogg/Naoki (Marth/Falco and maybe some others)
Toronto Joe (MK)
Tin Man (Olimar)
Ruinn (ICs/DK/idk who else he plays these days)

Uh yeah that's pretty much it. Again I'm not promising anything, I have no control over these people so who knows, they might all troll you with Ganondorf. I'm just giving you their names cause I know they're not absolute trash and they have ZSS exp. Don't come complaining to me if they don't help XD

Green = recommended char for that person.

 

[NH Cody]

Chris has a good connection. you should try him. he gave my ZSS some good diddy practice :D

 

[Maestro_]

Where do you live dude? There might already be an active offline Brawl scene around where you live.

How can I find if there's an offline scene in Southeast Michigan? I live in Waterford and don't have any good practice.

 

[infiniteV115]

I know Michigan definitely has an active Brawl scene, idk about southeast Michigan though. I'm Canadian so I know nothing about US geography XD
However, go here (to get there you just go to the home menu --> regional zones --> midwest) and there are a few Michigan threads there. Maybe ask around in the one called "The Big MI Discussion Topic".

Also from the home menu, go to tournament listings --> your region (midwest) and you'll be presented with a list of all the upcoming tournies in the midwest.

 

[Maestro_]

Thanks, I'm in luck. There is one near.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Thanks for the list, V115. I'll sure to keep it handy in the future!

That's just my whole problem, really. I'm completely isolated from the bulk of the VA competitive scene due to where I live. I'm actually more motivated to get better at Melee, but my area has almost nobody to offer. In this scenario, Brawl is my best option since like 20x more people play it around here - but just about all of them are casual and I've beaten them all, so... Wifi is my last hope.

 

[infiniteV115]

Try converting the casual players to competitive players?
Introduce them to the aspects of competitive play, little by little, while trying to make it sound not-boring.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Hahaha, speaking of which... I succeeded in getting one of my friends, originally a casual, into a little introduction of the metagame. He liked it, so he'll be joining the competitive Brawl scene very soon. He is my Padawan, despite having only a subpar-at-best Jedi Master.

Edit: And on another note... He'll main Sheik because he thinks she matches ZSS's build and appearance and wanted to keep a little trend going on w/ me.

 

[Coolwhip]

SFP: Do you have a youtube channel i can sub to?
I want to continue developing my zamus...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

My channel isn't the most helpful thing ever, I post mostly 2-second clips of weird **** I find.

But my youtube handle is lrxevan.

 

[NickRiddle]

You know your channel is gdlk SFP.
Don't be shy about it.

 

[Coolwhip]

Thanks bro. lol

 

[Heero Yuy]

Good word. Faced my first Diddy Kong player and it was a huge toughie. Luckily I made it out with superior spacing and reading him. However, anybody know about the MU in general?

 

[infiniteV115]

Quiksilver could help but he doesn't post much, same goes for DRN.
I have no experience in this MU but I somehow have a winning record against Zinoto and Player-1, so I guess I'm credible maybe.
Just be patient and space properly. Diddy has an amazing defensive game (good shield and banana is one of the best out-of-shield options in the game, if not THE best) so you have to be super careful with everything that might hit his shield. Sideb2, dsmash and bair are all safe on shield, I guess uair as well. Everything else WILL be punished by a banana (jabs, tilts, fsmash, usmash, upB, sideB1, lasers from too close, DASH ATTACK)

If he doesn't have a banana, nair is safe when spaced and retreated.

Be careful with lasers and sideB in general cause they have a lot of startup and they only hit from a distance where Diddy can hit you with a banana.
Never dash attack unless you're like 100% sure it's going to hit Diddy.

Normally if the opponent lands with an airdodge, you dsmash them for it. Diddy can fair you rather than airdodging so he can avoid the dsmash, cause it'll hit you before the dsmash comes out. If you notice this starts happening, use run away --> pivot sideB when you think he's going for fair (or just shield --> dtilt, but obviously sideB is a better punish)

Good Diddies will condition you to shield due to the threat of bananas, then sideB you when they know you're going to shield. So don't sit in shield too much. Or, sit in shield, but be prepared for the sideB. And don't try to nair his sideB kick.
If there's a banana in front of you and Diddy picks it up with a dash attack, you can dtilt/grab the dash attack before it hits you. Learn to SDI dash attacks as well (up/behind/up+behind)

Learn the infinite.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Took some heavy notes on that, V. Thanks!

And now, to spam another question (if you don't mind)... The TLink MU? Today I faced my first good player w/ him and... I got 2-stocked. The projectiles were flying everywhere and he was way too small for me to hit. He just controlled the field way too much, not to mention the boomerang ate my armor pieces for breakfast. Its like I was facing Sonic with a sword, and I got demolished. xD

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Toon Link is an advantaged match-up for ZSS IMO, but it's a match-up that tests your basics and reaction times. You need to be comfortable shielding projectiles and weaving around items. TBH It's just a match-up that comes with time and practice as your game mechanics improve.

Salem has a million match-ups vs KingToon on Youtube. Go watch a few, all very good.

 

[PEACE7]

Guys do we have any move that can punish falcons bair on our shield?

 

[infiniteV115]

Probably utilt OoS. Or jab at the very least.

 

[Zinoto]

V, can you give some advice on the MK MU? I can't seem to get around his tilts.

 

[infiniteV115]

I'm not that great at it but yeah basically
****ING SPACE YOUR DSMASH. Aim to hit with the tip of it. Outside of that, walk/run around to screw up his spacing. Zone with lasers and sideBs CAREFULLY (or else they'll get running shieldgrabbed). You can be less careful with dsmash but you still can't just throw it out blindly and followup from it blindly.
You can usually get a dtilt out if they ftilt2 your shield cause they don't usually go for ftilt3 after that.
Speaking of which, learn to pivot dtilt OoS. It's good for when MK tilts/dsmashes the back of your shield. Or if that's too much trouble then just low ftilt OoS, it can trip and it does 9%. Just time these properly cause if you get dsmashed again in the process you could die at like 80.

Remember that uncharged dsmash = -4 on block and charged = 0 on block. And you have a frame 1 jab. And a frame 2 spotdodge. And other options XD
Crawl --> shield nados is good.


This part's not directed towards Zinoto for the MK MU but just something I'm starting to do. Dthrow --> turn around --> jump --> back hit of nair is good. SH/FH depends on % obviously.

 

[Heero Yuy]

V, on that note... What should I do when MK is approaching me through the air? That tends to be really unpredictable, seeing as though he can slash me or land on the ground and land another aerial on me.

Gah, while I doubt I'm the only one who has bad days playing this game... I just faced several different characters (Snake, Diddy, etc.) today belonging to some good people. Sure, I understand they're better than me and I have to learn from my mistakes... But still, morale is pretty low at the moment.

Edit: Is spacing something that you can practice or do you only develop it by playing players? If the former, then I just took a Toon Link CPU and trained my Bair aim on it.

Edit #2: I meant to say when he was gliding towards me. Major error on my part. >.>

 

[1PokeMastr]

Just use Fair if he glides toward you, if you do it right, the first hit of Fair will clash with the Glide Attach, and then he takes the second hit.
If he doesn't glide attack.. well.. he just took 17%!

And if Up B hits your shield (grounded Up B/ Aerial) just punish Oos with Uair, only if it hits your shield, if you do it right, glide attack can't even come out!
:3

As for spacing practice, just go to training mode and set them to walk, or practice spacing against level 3s because they're dummies or even use Sandbags!

Or Green shells on Onett/ Top of Hyrule or a custom stage that look like |___________|
:3

Wait, you still count my DDD ?

 

[Heero Yuy]

You're the best. Thanks Poke! Though I mainly used Green Shells in Melee to practice OoS wavedashing and whatnot. What uses do they have in Brawl training?

 

[1PokeMastr]

Use them to practice your spacing on a moving target, and power shielding.

I also steal all my Zss infos from V :3

 

[Dakpo]

I want to see V play a good MK. Are there any vids?

 

[infiniteV115]

No vids yet, they're being uploaded to CanadaBrawl on youtube but it'll take a while for everything to be up there. If you're really that eager then you can go to twitch.tv/acgamesonline and look for the stream archive for Showdown in Downtown 14 (March 2nd) and I played Toronto Joe in LFs and Holynightmare (Ally's brother) in GFs.

My gameplay that day was basically just really good fundamentals sprinkled with some of the stupidest mistakes you've ever seen in your life...especially the one that cost me the set XD

 

[kingkirby91]

**** u salem

 

[PEACE7]

So i was playing on brinstar and did a glidetoss downwards to dsmash and somehow picked the item back up with it...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

So i was playing on brinstar and did a glidetoss downwards to dsmash and somehow picked the item back up with it...

This should absolutely not be possible. Even if you somehow managed to pick up an item with dsmash (I dunno, it is the attack button after all) the item toss animation is way too long with both a soft toss and hard toss. You can't start a dsmash until it's pretty far above your head.

So either something on Brinstar caused the item to bounce significantly less or something else happened.

I was curious so I went into Brinstar to test this out and I was able to get the suit piece to remain stationary when tossed down on top of the stage obstacles on the bottom platform, but dsmash doesn't ever pick up items unless there's something I don't know.