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ZSS General Discussion

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
6,445
Location
In the rain.
The entire jab combo works on Oli, so do that when you can.
Fthrow is good cause it gets pikmin off.
Most of the time you're gonna be approaching with either dash attack or grab. If he's not camping properly then when he's landing (they tend to jump to throw pikmin) punish with uair/usmash/fair/ dash attack-->utilt.
Generally I find it's hard to dsmash his landings unless you use a walking pivot dsmash.
Your landings will get punished with grabs if you simply airdodge into the ground, so mix in some SPACED nairs.
Air release-->uair is guaranteed if you buffer the dash (not hard at all).

I like to CP Oli to YI:B because the position of the platform helps our juggle game, and the small size of the stage means we're in Oli's face more than on other stages.
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
9,302
I dislike YIB in the MU because the stage makes Olimar's grab range slightly longer in some areas as well as the curvatures makes the difference in some of his cooldown animations having grab whiff on approach. Dash grabbing a whiffed Olimar Dair only to have it go over him is the worst feeling. I like smashville the most, but I'm not too concerned about juggling Olimar for damage because of whistle. I'm more focused on getting him off stage.

The only thing I'd differ with V115 on the MU is that I think Bair is probably the most important tool we have in the MU. If you space with the move with some precision, you cover yourself from a lot of option Olimar can use to punish, even if you hit on shield. If done right, jab/spot dodge after Bair forces the Olimar to guess in a 50/50 just to punish you. Especially if you use your jumps and platforms (especially platform cancellable ones) intelligently to bait options, you'll more likely than not be able to get in.

Nairing when you have pikmin latched on you as a landing option is actually a pretty gimmicky mixup. The extra hitlag from Pikmin makes instant lingering hitboxes. Plasma Whip on pikmin returning to Olimar also creates a small hitlag trap that can be hard to track (since Olimar's will try to dash to shield grab that move)

Don't airdodge into the ground when landing against Olimar unless you have some sort of hard cross over read or have conditioned them to hell and back to expect an aerial, and even then it's really risky. Try to zone so that your landing option is Bair, but if you can't, mixing up between Nair (primary) and Fair (on read) is almost always better than air dodging. If you feel threatened, throw out that jab after landing because even on shield you can sometimes bail yourself out and catch a shield drop option.

If you grab Olimar at around 100-110, don't bother throwing in my opinion. Go straight for the pummel > forced ground break > guaranteed jab string to refresh moves. If you get another grab at 130+, GR Uair will kill most of the time. But this is important because by this percent you've generally been using Bair to zone the whole stock, so you now have two reliable kill options from the air (Bair/Uair), one gimmicky one on the ground (plasma whip), and one out of grab (GR > Uair).

When Olimar is in the air, if there are platforms spaced uair pressure is pretty solid per every matchup because they can't go through platforms while whistling. However, if there are no platorms, don't bother chasing Olimar in the air since the cost of them whistling through isn't worth it. Just cover all of his options by waiting in shield and punishing with dash attack to get them off stage. Once they are off stage from the ledge, you can start mixing in other landing punish options like pivot grabbing them or dsmashing them. If you can get them off stage and too the ledge, that's where a majority of the winning trades are. Everything else is kind of a push unless they get under us.

Trapping Olimar is shield with Jab is pretty broken, and you should do your best to try to jab them out of their fairly slow moves oos by timing their reaction time.
 

BioDG

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
609
Yeah, I don't think Nair is a good idea in any situation except for covering landings due to the hitlag Iridescent mentioned. I learned this the hard way.

I agree with the advice for when he's in the air. If the Olimar can utilize whistle well. But yeah, punishing landings seems to be the safest bet.

Great advice!
 

Tesh

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
9,737
Location
TX
Yea in my experience, YI and Lylat do some pretty hilarious stuff to you guys against short characters.

Does Gr-Uair work if there is a platform in the way?
 

DeLux

Player that used to be Lux
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
9,302
Yeah, I don't think Nair is a good idea in any situation except for covering landings due to the hitlag Iridescent mentioned. I learned this the hard way.

I agree with the advice for when he's in the air. If the Olimar can utilize whistle well. But yeah, punishing landings seems to be the safest bet.

Great advice!
Yea, generally I try to not spew out too much because I normally play ICs in bracket admittedly. But recent pool play, MMs, and doubles sets are making me more and more confident with ZSS. Olimar just so happens to be one of the MU's I play on occasion (my roommate is an elite Olimar).

Since I'm done playing seriously and just play for fun (or if people sponsor me to travel places), I'm working on slowly maining the character. ZSS is so flashy when played at high speeds. I might not bring the wins every time, but I'll bring the hype at the locals for sure, win or lose.
 

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
6,445
Location
In the rain.
Yeah GR uair works when there's a platform in the way cause Oli's AR animation is really high (like Jiggs') and we uair him when he's at the apex of it.

Thanks for the advice, Lux. I've always sorta felt like I had hit a mental block with the Oli MU.
 

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
6,445
Location
In the rain.
Played some friendlies with ChuDat today. Either he's worse than I thought or I'm better than I thought (or both) cause I was actually winning most of the time.
Then again, friendlies. Nevertheless, I'm really excited for IMPULSE.
Everybody better watch me on stream. Except for Nick, cause he's a jerk and hosts locals on the same day as the first day of IMPULSE so he can't watch me.
 

DRN

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
1,069
Location
Route 12
Played some friendlies with ChuDat today. Either he's worse than I thought or I'm better than I thought (or both) cause I was actually winning most of the time.
Then again, friendlies. Nevertheless, I'm really excited for IMPULSE.
Everybody better watch me on stream. Except for Nick, cause he's a jerk and hosts locals on the same day as the first day of IMPULSE so he can't watch me.
Probably a mix of both. Give yourself more credit and good luck!

I have a tournament this weekend too so i'm not going to be able to watch :(
 

BioDG

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
609
Played some friendlies with ChuDat today. Either he's worse than I thought or I'm better than I thought (or both) cause I was actually winning most of the time.
Then again, friendlies. Nevertheless, I'm really excited for IMPULSE.
Everybody better watch me on stream. Except for Nick, cause he's a jerk and hosts locals on the same day as the first day of IMPULSE so he can't watch me.
Probably a mix of both. Give yourself more credit and good luck!

I have a tournament this weekend too so i'm not going to be able to watch :(

We better make a big showing out of our character this weekend between the five or six of us.
 

.EXE

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
120
Location
Toronto, Ontario
You guys should be watching V115 putting in work at impulse DAY 1 day ****ing 1!

@ Salem the lurking Zss main wish you came and you would've been impressed with V115's performance honestly now I would rate him a top 5 Zss main but sadly everyone is looking for him to make some major results. I am as wwell but if you saw what I saw there's nothing else to teach this guy practically 3 stocking ppl unless he somehow sd's

As for my results as you guys don't really care =___= MJG rraped me with Diddy (In pools) somehow made it into pro bracket but I know I do not deserve a place there not up to par with myself. My mind runs and I can't catch it even if I have a head start.

For example at first I has handling Dabuz 1st time I played him on the 1st stock but then he go the hang of things and ***** I was still trouble but my mind was preoccupied with things going on around me like San standing in the background. Was only able to take 1 stock off Dabuz anyways.
 

pichuthedk

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 6, 2012
Messages
1,075
Location
Toronto
Lol yo bro you think you don't deserve a place?

It's Yosh btw I got ***** by an IC then had a pit eat me I seldom fight either of them so i just took some notes about it.

Anyways ended up being put in by default for T.O Joe didn't come back :/

Oh ya exe. add me to facebook to.
https://www.facebook.com/yahshua.barrett
 

infiniteV115

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Messages
6,445
Location
In the rain.
Responding here cause it's the more appropriate thread
V putting in workkk baby. you got this

edit: that up air on MR R was hottttt
Thanks. He adapted quickly and was beating me pretty badly after game 1, but I'll get him next time.

Did pretty well at IMPULSE. Got 4th (Dabuz Ally Mr.R me), I 2-0'd Luckay in pools and 2-0'd Firefly, Zinoto and MJG in winners'. Got 3-0'd by Dabuz in WSF, then won a VERY close 2-1 against Swordgard in LQ, then lost 3-1 to Mr.R in LSF.

Got the infinite twice against Zinoto, though I never killed out of it because of the stupid SV platform.

I also took 5 stocks in crews.
 

BioDG

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
609
You landed the infinite? NIIICE. You did justice to your name, apparently.

I better go practice that infinite, actually. I doubt I'm going to continue playng Gnesknight in full sets.

I notice you tried some kind of variation I'm not familiar with (in crews). There's another one that isn't just footstool > z-drop > fastfall+catch > dtoss+dsmash?

EDIT:

I'm sick of ZSS losing to Olimar. We must defeat this spaceman once and for all.
 

quiKsilverItaly

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
268
gz to V115 looking good against Mr.R, far better than me

i got Glutonny on Gorillas Battle in Paris! :)
got 2nd only beaten by Leon, ...but ****** the **** of me. have to deal better with pressure and juggling :/
used Banana Lock in tournament dat hype

bracket: http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/269383GorillazBattleBracket.png

but won teams with Deimos, beating Leon/Bjay and Orion/Chair and Okals/Dany (and Gluto/Leon in MM). hoping that **** will help me finding a good team mate for apex 2013.
 

PEACE7

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
2,213
Location
Training Mode
Congrats to V115 and Quik :) ZSS is deff gonna go up on the tier list if you guys keep this up
V115 i hope the replays were saved.
 

Tesh

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
9,737
Location
TX
Yea he did. Glutton got 5th? I thought he was like....king of Europe or something...

Yea ya'll need to beat olimar folks. especially you guys in MK banned land.
 

BioDG

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
609
@bio yea, i heard you played <3 Infinity and <3 Denti. Welcome to my world, how was your visit?
Pretty horrible lol. Those guys are good, especially Infinity, who punished every habit I had. But with Denti I felt like I could hang, but I just need to get better against that character (and yes, I lost). I think the Denti set will be posted.
 

Dakpo

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Messages
1,912
Location
Denton, Texas
Pretty horrible lol. Those guys are good, especially Infinity, who punished every habit I had. But with Denti I felt like I could hang, but I just need to get better against that character (and yes, I lost). I think the Denti set will be posted.
Yea i was really surprised when infinity lost to nick riddle, but denti beat riddle.
 

Zanx8

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Messages
419
Oh yes, it's absolutely lovely. >.> Or his smashes that could kill. I doubt there is anyone more boring than Olimar to fight.
 

ぱみゅ

❤ ~
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Under your skirt
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I have fun with DDD cause it's tremendously easy to troll people with him (even if he can't CG them)... unless they are Olimar or ICs. Then the fun is over as they troll us harder :c
 

BioDG

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
609
DDD might be limited, but what he has is still effective. His grab saves him as a character.
 

Zanx8

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 4, 2011
Messages
419
Dedede has good grabs but that still doesn't save him. XD Against people like ICs or Diddy. =P
 
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