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ZSS General Discussion

Supermodel From Paris

Supermodel From Paris

Smash Hero
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I have more coming, too. We have a ridiculous amount of ways to kill Falco, by the way.

Other characters that are top tier have an army of people looking them over and searching for gay **** constantly and ZSS never had that.

A lot of this stuff should be common knowledge but it isn't. I say that the reason ZSS has never been considered a top choice is because her metagame has been constantly behind. This is due mostly to a lack of interest and lack of players. I realize "gay ****" doesn't really make a metagame, but it definitely doesn't hurt, and characters with way, way less to exploit have exploited way more than ZSS does.

So anyway, I'm doing this now because someone needs to do all the "frame farming" that ZSS lacks compared to other characters and I'm motivated now to do it.
 
infiniteV115

infiniteV115

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All of this stuff is really situational and not very useful lol
First of all you should never dsmash chain Falco to the edge...hit him with 5 dsmashes from 0% and he'll be at 45% and from there you get a free dash attack lock across the stage for a 70%+ combo unless they SDI.

2ndly, if you DO dsmash him off the edge, you're probably just better off waiting for him to pop out and then jab1 cancelling...you might catch him out of his DJ lol.

3rdly the footstool offstage isn't a guaranteed kill on him or DK cause they both have their DJs

Not to rain on your parade or anything. This is all cool but it's not very useful at all.

Oh yeah...something I forgot to mention. Figured it out quite a while ago.
Remember how I said that if you sh --> immediate charged laser on BF, it comes out at the exact same height as the lower platforms so it'd be a good way to hit someone on the platforms?

Turns out, the exact same thing (ie sh --> immediately charged laser) while running is the easiest way to set up for laser cancels (hit the ground and slide off immediately after shooting a laser and it cuts down your cooldown). Try it out.
 
Supermodel From Paris

Supermodel From Paris

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I'm not really having a parade, just exploring ZSS and the game mechanically to see what can be done.

Hopefully I'll find some good things. I haven't found anything game-changing, and I probably won't, not like, one thing anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsGMv6BlXgk&feature=youtu.be

This one's good LOL

You beat his airdodge by like a few frames. This isn't reliable but it does work.

The idea is, hit him with full paralyzer, grab the ledge so his ledgeslip doesn't, then drop off AFTER he would grab the ledge and footstool. if you drop off too early he takes the ledge.

If he's too close to the ledge, he'll slip off a little more horizontally. There are a few traps you can do in these situations (like dropping off and doing an immediate uair to try to catch his dj with the weak part, then tethering).
 
infiniteV115

infiniteV115

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In the rain.
So I just tried it out and stuff
...It seems like if you delay the dash offstage and then run off and footstool (rather than trying to time it by grabbing the edge/tethering and then footstooling) then it's a lot easier...and unless the CPU in training mode is holding down on the analog stick for some reason, it looks like Falco doesn't grab the edge while he's in the tumbly state from the footstool

In other words, it looks like we have a guaranteed death on Falco if we can force an edge slip off the stage and then we time the footstool properly. Can you test it out SFP? Just fully charged laser --> run off and footstool, and it looks like he can only make it back if he jumps into the stage, then b-reverses his upB on startup (so that he's facing away from the centre of the stage) and goes straight up from there.
 
Tesh

Tesh

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Pretty sure edgeslips always grab an unoccupied ledge with no inputs.

I'll be surprised if thats not the case here.
 
infiniteV115

infiniteV115

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So i tried it out some more and basically it seems like this

When you hit the opponent with a laser (charged or uncharged) and they're on the ground, they will slide a certain amount. Charged lasers cause them to slide further than uncharged ones do.

It appears that if the opponent slips off the stage at the end of their slide, they won't go into a true edge-slip animation and they'll grab the edge.

If they slip off the stage at the beginning of the slide, they'll go into their edge slip and won't grab the edge.

Which means that if you want to cause them to edge slip with a laser, they have to be standing fairly close to the edge.

It also means that on BF, charged laser --> edge slip off platform --> uncharged laser reset --> charged laser --> edge slip off stage --> footstool is a true combo on anyone who will hit the ground out of an edge slip from the lower BF platforms.

Preeetty sure it's a guaranteed death on Falco aside from the whole b-reversal upB thingy where he slides up the slope and lands on stage...
 
infiniteV115

infiniteV115

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Again, you're footstooling from way too high.
And the first charged laser can be done with a sh --> immediately charged laser (ie you buffer the laser out of jumpsquat frames)
 
1PokeMastr

1PokeMastr

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V is right about you footstooling Falco from way too high up. Especially when Falco still has his jump ( Which he did in that Video ) .
Since Falco can reverse Up B, causing him to land on stage
 
infiniteV115

infiniteV115

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Think about the fact that when you footstool Falco off the lower platform, he hits the stage.
He can't do anything when he's falling for that entire distance (aside from falling left/right)

Now apply that same distance to the offstage footstool.
 
quiKsilverItaly

quiKsilverItaly

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about edge slip off platform:
this can work on many charakters.
shoot a charged/uncharged laser on mk and he will fall down (the only thing he can do is to tech afaik, but not jump or aerial), another uncharged laser for reset gives us a free charged dsmash (-> triple dsmash, or kill).

this is the similar stuff what already told V115 and SFP, but without the flashy stuff against falco. shooting against a enemy standing on the end of a platform on bf isn't that situational, and we should use this more often.
i just wanted to mention that it is also useful on other charakters. i just dunno, on what charakters this will work (now we know mk and falco do).
 
infiniteV115

infiniteV115

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The characters that are forced to hit the ground after the edge slip on BF's lower platforms can be found here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyFtJDxsqMs&t=1m52s

The 'V115 combo' will probably kill Wolf too.

Yeah, as Quik said, we can get a triple dsmash after forcing the laser reset. 1 dsmash during the getup animation, they won't get stunned by it since they were stunned by the uncharged laser and then 2 more AFTER they get up (at high percents 3 more)

So at not-high percents we get 3 dsmashes --> followup
At high percents we get 4 dsmashes --> follow up

At low percents you can also use fair1 to force the edge slip --> dash attack to force the reset. Fair1 --> laser is too slow, pretty sure.

OH YEAH, I'M GONNA BE AT A TOURNAMENT TODAY. STREAM GUYS PLZ. MAYBE I'LL TRY OUT THIS ****.
 
Supermodel From Paris

Supermodel From Paris

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MK can't tech

You can start the infinite.

Also, anyone this works on, you can baby paralyzer reset, dsmash, run off the stage and reverse down b spike!!
 
quiKsilverItaly

quiKsilverItaly

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another thing i mentioned a few months before:
uncharged laser reset is also useful, if we get the enemy with up-b from the air. in this case of situation it is better to use uncharged laser than dsmash, because we cover almost every option (including techs of the enemy).
no tech -> laser reset -> charged dsmash
tech in no direction, and tech away from Zss still hits him.
the only option, which isn't covered is the tech behind Zss.

are there any other platforms, where we can use the edge slip?
 
infiniteV115

infiniteV115

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You can edge slip on every platform, the thing is that (you'll understand if you watch the entirety of the video I linked) if the opponent hits the ground DURING their edge slip animation, they go into the 'missed tech' state.

eg if MK's edge slip animation is a total of 27 frames and he hits the ground 27 frames after sliding off the platform (or he hits it in less than 27 frames) then he'll go into the missed tech state. If he takes longer than 27 frames to hit the ground, he's not forced to go into the missed tech state (ie he can airdodge, do a move, jump before hitting the ground) but if he doesn't do any of these before hitting the ground he'll still go into his missed tech state.

This applies to every character.

Now...whether or not the opponent will hit the ground during their edge slip depends on

-Height of platform
-Character's edge slip animation length
-Character's natural fall speed (ie not fastfall speed)

So on stages with higher platforms (eg Smashville, PS1, Delfino), fewer characters are guaranteed to hit the ground than on BF.

On stages with lower platforms (I think Lylat is the only one?...Also some transformations of PS1/PS2/Delfino) more characters are guaranteed to hit the ground than on BF.
 
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