ZSS General Discussion

[Yikarur]

you can act from the first frame of drop when you powershield something.
if tornado is done correctly it hits every 4 frames If I remember correctly.
when you don't mash B hard it hit's every six frames. (if done frame perfectly frame 6 grabs will trade but you will still grab)

if the tornado is fresh you will have 5 frames of shield stun so it's practically impossible to do something in that case.

I would not challenge it :/
I don't know the downB frame data but perhaps that move would be a better idea because of invincible frames

 

[infiniteV115]

Uh
So you're telling me it'll hit every 4 frames even when you take into account the hitlag that MK suffers for nadoing a shield?
Or does nado not cause MK any hitlag?

And I have both L and B set to shield, Mink. Normally I use L, I use B for things like platform cancelling and powershielding **** such as Falco's lasers.

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

Thanks Yika.

We tested Down B and it is easier than Utilt.
The problem is, even if mastered, the down-b is not always useful (it doesn't hit the Nado everytime, so it would be often more useful to just wait in shield).

tldr: if we don't master the Utilt, it won't be worth it to learn this technique :/

 

[NickRiddle]

Down-b gets you away from nado.

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

Down-b gets you away from nado.

That would be only useful, if our shield is too low.
Otherwise just waiting in shield, and punishing endling lag of nado is better.

 

[Yikarur]

Uh
So you're telling me it'll hit every 4 frames even when you take into account the hitlag that MK suffers for nadoing a shield?
Or does nado not cause MK any hitlag?

there is not hitlag involved in tornado.
when you do tornado you hear that wooosh sound of the tornado.
does it seem delayed when you hit someone? not really.
MK has no hitlag while hitting with tornado, you have hitlag if you shield a fresh tornado only. (and perhaps thoose hits that have knockback but I'm not sure right now)

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

lololol nvm.

 

[Dakpo]

Winners finals

 

[infiniteV115]

How did it go Dakpo?

 

[DeLux]

Dakpo came in second, only lost to Denti to twice

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I got first at a tourney last night yo.

 

[infiniteV115]

Damn. Mink > Dakpo?

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I beat FGCU Viper twice in GFs but lost to him in WF
Beat Megaladon
D Who as my decently notable wins.

FGCU Viper used to be Power Ranked in FL (before last week). I went IC for the falco sets. It was ridic hard. GF1 i beat him 3-0 and then GF2 it went to game 5 and i won because i killed him for killing nana. Haha. But, my ZSS was on point yesterday as well. Megaladon really knows that MU.

 

[NickRiddle]

Mink the king of the sandbox.

 

[Dakpo]

I got 2nd, lost to olimar...just like in texas XD. But I did do well. I beat Kain and some other people.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=328292&highlight=Dakpo

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

Dakpo you use some special stuff I only see doing by your Zss. It isn't surprising me you are placing well!
Also gz on Delux, but to be honest i never saw your Zss in action

 

[DeLux]

Videos will be posted at some point. I don't remember which games we saved from LF where he kinda bodied me repeatedly, but WSF was saved and should be on stream at twitch.tv/cosmash

 

[infiniteV115]

Oh so you beat Delux twice

...I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be happy for you or sad for Delux.

 

[DeLux]

Be happy for him.
I played ICs for 5 games straight without making the adaptations necessary to win.
He executed while I did not.
The better player won, I deserved to lose.

Celebrate his success and please don't pity my failure

 

[infiniteV115]

You took him to game 5 with ICs? Nice.

Spoiler

y u no zss ditto

I want to see these vids. I'm bad at the ICs MU.

 

[DeLux]

We played two sets where I lost 0-2 and 0-3 lol
That's 5 games. Was really tempted to bring out the Falco, that's how ugly it got at one point.

 

[infiniteV115]

You have a Falco? O.o

And why didn't you bring out the ZSS?!

 

[DeLux]

Because he's Dakpo and that guy is the truth

More in detail:
I played DRN in the ditto at one time and it didn't end well. If I could get past the item phase at the beginning of the match, I might be able to hold my own. But playing from a stock down every game is bad strategy for me. Although the thought did cross my mind, but Dakpo is flat out better than me lol

 

[infiniteV115]

Ah, fair enough.
But seriously, you have a Falco? O.o

 

[DeLux]

I'm not sure

 

[NickRiddle]

Of course you lost with ICs.
ZSS is +2 vs. ICs.

 

[Dakpo]

We played two sets where I lost 0-2 and 0-3 lol
.

There was that one game where Nana footstooled me

 

[DeLux]

I think we can both agree to pretend like that never happened :D

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Question: is it well known that you can DI towards the stage during hitstun and auto-cancel an aerial to "tech?"

To test, get to like 60% and have dk fsmash you. DI towards the stage and use bair to momentum cancel.

 

[DeLux]

Wouldn't you retain your momentum while still being in standing animation?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

No that's what's weird. >_< it doesn't make any sense.

 

[NickRiddle]

You mean, DI down towards the stage and then... bair?
That'll just make you stop?
ZSS top tier.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

well the issue is that i had trouble with my PatG DI

There's a way to DI like directly into the stage when hit, right? That doesn't involve holding down.

 

[DeLux]

I'll look into this.

It might be that the sliding momentum thing I was think of was when one air dodged into the ground after being hit in a failed attempt to tech the ground.

I don't think I've actually tried throwing out an aerial in the hope of hitting the auto cancel window pre-hitbox.

Interesting idea as usual SFP

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

DeLux, do you have AIM or another place I could contact you to ask some questions? Sometimes I think I found stuff but I don't want to go posting it on the forums and looking dumb later. P lol

 

[DeLux]

I'm literally always on skype

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Added you!

 

[NickRiddle]

Grandpa sfp at it again.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdE7HHsnjxg reverse froll oos

To clarify this post, pivot rolling is what happens when you mash back once on the control stick and hit shield while at neutral. It basically allows ZSS to use her forward roll as a back roll.

Until now we couldn't even do it out of shield in a makeshift way (ie, suffering the shield drop frames then pivot frames) but now you can. What this does is allow you to (after shield drop frames) do ZSS' forward roll as a back roll. For ZSS the entire thing is either 11 or 12 frames OOS. I can't get a good answer as to how many frames a pivot adds, some say 0.

The advantage of this is that it's harder to punish. The 12 frame period should happen during the ending lag of whatever attack your opponent did, and the animation ends much faster than the back roll animation.

Experiment with it, it might suck.

If it doesn't suck and you can master this, I can honestly not see a reason to use a bad back roll ever again.

 

[infiniteV115]

According to Pikabunz (aka KPrime...and he seems to know a ****ton about frame data and whatnot) buffered turnarounds take 0 frames for every char.
And Nick said the same a while back.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=14927807&postcount=1281
(He was talking about ZSS dtilt, which comes out on frame 5.)