ZSS General Discussion

[Tesh]

I know Blondie isn't a known Falco, but Dakpo made it looks pretty possible.

If you whiff the grab, you get hit by phantasm and Falco gets past you (this was going to happen anyway). Seems like this situation would pop up alot when Falco camps near the edge then waits to phantasm past you. You can go for the grab and if you are wrong, he would need to hard read it to not wind up just phantasming you as he escapes.

Also can't you dsmash lock then dash grab him at the edge for the same effect?

Also you guys can duck lasers!

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

And then he jab cancels us and we take 23409823409% free damage

It's horribly sad how few answers we have to falco's jab cancel :\

 

[infiniteV115]

Falco's Jab1 cancel is -6 on hit and jab2 cancel is -4 on hit, only reason they string together is because it puts us in the air so there's an extra frame advantage that exists because we're falling

Just SDI down and punish with utilt/shield/roll behind

@Tesh, no, because it only works if you grab him when he doesn't have his DJ
And no, we can't duck lasers, we have to crawl them...and it seems for some reason that even when we're crawling, every 10th (roughly) laser will hit us

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

And no, we can't duck lasers, we have to crawl them...and it seems for some reason that even when we're crawling, every 10th (roughly) laser will hit us

I asked someone in the lab about this a while back, it's because ZSS has a hitbubble that pops up every now and then during her crawl animation that's just high enough to be hit.

I choose to believe it's on her ***.

 

[Tesh]

Thats actually where the spark pops up when you shoot grounded lasers at her. Dat *** too big. Falco got dat bread etc.

Also why does jab matter? Can't you just down B away when any jab hits you? Or am I forgetting something about using specials out of hitstun?


Didn't know he could use his dj, seems like he would still be a ****ty spot even with it.

 

[Jon Farron]

Nvm about what I said, I just need a GC controller, lol. I keep jumping with the upB and can't jump through the stage after. But once I get a GC controller and set specials to the cstick I'll be able to do it

I still can't do it D: omg.

I suck :L

 

[infiniteV115]

idk if he can DJ between the air release and the laser, but he can just use his DJ for recovery after the footstool and he'll be able to live (I know this because I've had Falco live the dsmash footstool offstage multiple times because he had his DJ, and in this air release thing he's footstooled from roughly the same height)

I mean yeah you can punish his upB recovery with an uair or something, but if you grab him out of his DJ then that's an instant death...much bigger deal.

 

[Dakpo]

It's worth the risk... Get hit by his side B vs taking his stock? Worth it!

 

[infiniteV115]

Well yeah it's worth the risk, I'm just saying it can miss a lot lol

 

[Dakpo]

so I'm pretty close to getting this "pull through" technique consistently....I might pull it out in tournament. I also found that the left side of smash ville has a lot of different properties than then right side. When I post a video Ill show a lot of cool stuff besides just the "Pull Through"

 

[PEACE7]

If you pull it off in tournament you will be my hero! and yes it does also try this take out a bumper and throw it against the side slant of SV and see what happens its funny

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

You're all trolling me, this doesn't work. :|

 

[Jon Farron]

Ikr? D: keep jumping with the upB and cant do it. >.<

Btw...

v115 sucks

Hater D:

 

[infiniteV115]

Lol he's just trolling, he's from my region, I know the dude, we're cool

Also yeah this stupid upB thing is pretty hard >.< DAKPO TECH ME PLS

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2obhVmcZwM second video

Seems like this would be good to learn. This can be done so that:

1. Bair never actually comes out, but the animation starts which still allows you to autocancel onto the stage. This is basically a platform cancel onto the stage from the ledge, like a waveland. This is very hard, and I've only managed to do it by accident once or twice... I'll try to get it on video. Edit- Done: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC8JL1XZPic

2. You can land just after bair's hitboxes come out (frame 8 or 9 of the animation) which gives you perfect frame advantage and down-b away, as shown at the end. Could be described as an improved version of zss' getup attack after 100%.

 

[Jon Farron]

What are the best stages for ZSS? So far all I know of is Smashville (obviously)

What are some others?

 

[infiniteV115]

Smashville isn't her best stage in any MU as far as I know...she generally likes Battlefield, PS1 and Rainbow Cruise (if it's legal) cause she's good at juggling and she can platform pressure well

Against certain characters she prefers FD (Marth, DDD) but generally she likes BF, PS1 and RC
I personally like YI:B quite a bit too.

 

[ぱみゅ]

imo, stage selection for ZSS is pretty much personal preference/matchup-dependent.
I think she does great in pretty much every stage, and that she doesn't have any overall bad one, except maybe YI:B, but she still have some tricks like throw pieces downwards and let them bounce there (and Jungle Japes (**** JJ), but stages like that are rarely ever seen now).

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

why do you guys like Fd. i really don't like this stage.

also one of my counter picks is lylat cruise. i win their usually for some reason, the people already ban that stage every time haha

 

[Jon Farron]

I despise battlefield. Too many platforms and too close together/to the ground. I also really hate it when there is input lag on wifi and I can't go through the plat form and end up doing an attack on it leaving me vulnerable.

I found she does pretty good on Delfino Plaza though. She can downsmash someone as the stage is going up and leave them behind. Lol.

 

[space23]

Nice technique I'll try learn this. Has anyone been able to do this on other stages such as fd?

 

[infiniteV115]

why do you guys like Fd. i really don't like this stage.

also one of my counter picks is lylat cruise. i win their usually for some reason, the people already ban that stage every time haha

FD is good in certain MUs but other than those few MUs, we want platforms lol

I hate Lylat. I'm not saying it's bad for ZSS, I just personally hate it.
I should learn to like it, it's probably good for her XD

I also really hate it when there is input lag on wifi and I can't go through the plat form and end up doing an attack on it leaving me vulnerable.

I found she does pretty good on Delfino Plaza though. She can downsmash someone as the stage is going up and leave them behind. Lol.

It's arguably our best stage. Just cause Wifi is dumb doesn't mean you should stop playing on BF XD
You should be used to the lag if you're playing on Wifi.
If you can't adapt to it, stop playing Wifi...BF is good XD

And against an opponent with a brain it's gonna be hard to kill them like that on Delfino

Nice technique I'll try learn this. Has anyone been able to do this on other stages such as fd?

Pretty sure it won't work on FD cause FD doesn't have a slope like SV does.

It might work on BF though

 

[Tesh]

Iono how ZSS uses lylat in other matchups, but I use it as a CP against ZSS. The tilting really helps me get around her moves that travel in striaght lines. Blaster, Side B and Grab just straight up miss sometimes.

This is just as a small fast character.

 

[infiniteV115]

That's the main reason I dislike Lylat anyway.
That and the suitpieces fall off...especially since I just recently became amazing with them

And Lylat's one of Sonic's best stages, isn't it?

 

[Tesh]

Eh iono, not really. He doesn't have many bad stage (only brinstar/frigate imo), but I only would use lylat against falco/fox/wolf/zss.

I'm definitely okay striking there in some matchups, but its not up there with FD/YI/RC

 

[Jon Farron]

Sometimes it's hard to adapt to lag on Wifi. Everyone's connection is different >.<

 

[infiniteV115]

If Salem can do it, so can you.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I hate lylat but just in general, not when I play zss :\

 

[PEACE7]

If my skype isn't lying than today is V155 birthday and if it is HAPPY BDAY!!

 

[Jon Farron]

:O Happy Birthday! :D

But why doesn't it say it's his birthday at the bottom of the main page?


On another nite: How do I beat a highly defensive ROB with ZSS? I get 2stocked... Can't do anything without being bombarded by lasers, tops, and nairs.

 

[infiniteV115]

Look at ROB. That should prevent you from getting hit by lasers and gyros (just powershield them, or regular shield if you're not confident in your ability to powershield them)

Grab a gyro and have fun with it. It really cuts out his far-range options because now lasers are super predictable, and you should be better with items than he is anyway.

Learn the infinite.

Most importantly, learn to juggle. This means being able to keep him in the air with uairs but also keeping yourself out of position to get naired (again, this will require you keeping your eyes on ROB). Take him to BF, YI:B or PS1 and juggle him there; keep him above the platforms as much as possible, abuse your vastly superior fast fall (this means you get to land on the ground and jump again to continue the juggle before he lands) and if he lands on a platform, intimidate him by standing under or poke at him with usmash/falling uair/falling nair/fair.
ROB's vulnerability to juggles is the most important part of this MU (yes, even more important than the infinite)

If he lands into the same spot as you do, and he lands with an airdodge, punish it with an usmash/utilt cause it'll go right through his airdodge (utilt is riskier)

Try to learn the ROB player's edgeguarding habits. Usually they'll wait at the edge, then when you try to recover they'll run off and ff fair you. Be careful offstage.

Edgeguard with fairs and lasers.

A lot of ROBs tend to spotdodge-->dsmash when they think they're in danger of being punished for a whiffed move/unsafe move on shield. Look out for this, and when you get a good feel for it, predict and punish with a charged dsmash. If you have the infinite down this means you get a free stock.

Pay attention to ROB's tilts; they're really good.

Also thanks...yes it's my birthday today, maybe SWF doesn't say it is cause I lied during the registration or something lol lemme check.

 

[Jon Farron]

Wow, lots of advice there. *takes notes*

A couple questions:
1.) What is powershielding? I haven't heard that term before.
2.)What's ZSS' infinite? Is it her fthrow chaingrab? Or are you talking about ROB's infinite?

Thanks for all the tips :D I should've thought of juggling him...

 

[infiniteV115]

Powershielding is just shielding with proper timing. I think technically speaking, it's when you shield while the hitbox is already within your shield's range. I'm sure you can tell, every character is thinner than their shield, since the shield is round. The little extra space between the edge of your shield and the edge of your character's frame; shield when the hitbox is in that area and you'll powershield.
Powershielding also makes a different sound than regularly shielding an attack (it has a sort of metallic clanking sound)

Your shield takes no damage when you powershield things, you suffer less shield lag and you have fewer shield drop frames. It's better than regularly shielding in every way possible, outside of the fact that if you mistime it you get hit.

There's a video for the infinite. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrIGVZ3JjMw
Basically, for whatever strange reason, if you dsmash ROB while he's on the ground, and then footstool him and dair immediately after the footstool...your dair never comes out, you just land on the ground immediately. ROB hits the ground cause he just got foostooled.

What this means is that you can dsmash --> footstool --> dair, then turn around and dsmash to repeat the cycle over and over for as long as you want. That's the hard way of doing the infinite.

The easy way to do it is dsmash --> turn around (now you're facing away from ROB) --> jump BACKWARDS (so that you're still facing away from ROB but you're jumping towards him) --> footstool --> dair --> shoot an uncharged laser. This forces a reset from ROB (if you've ever seen a jab lock, or a laser lock from Falco, it's the same idea except you can only use 1 laser with ZSS) and then when he gets up you dsmash him again.

Practice in training mode.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I saw a japanese video of someone doing it on WiFi, IIRC it was something like
DSmash > Dsmash >Footstool > (turn around) Forward-down Tilt > Paralyzer > Paralyzer > Dsmash
and Dsmash > Dsmash > Footstool > Pivot Paralyzer > Paralyzer > Dsmash at mid percentage
or something dumb like that

 

[Dekillsage]

I love reading the zss boards =P Everyone is always sharing tech and helping each other out v-v

If anyone is interested in how Salem approaches the mu you can watch his set vs dill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zko_srS_rq4

Game 1 wasn't recorded sadly =(

 

[NickRiddle]

ROB infinite.

D-smash > turn > footstool > instant dair > paralyzer x2 (for timing) > d-smash > repeat.

 

[Jon Farron]

Omg, that infinite is evil. I love it >:D How much you wanna bet that those 6 dislikes on the video were ROB mains?

 

[BioDG]

Happy birfday, V113451341

 

[ぱみゅ]

Or Brawl haters, by the time of the video there were many of them lurking those videos just to bash Brawl.

 

[infiniteV115]

I saw a japanese video of someone doing it on WiFi, IIRC it was something like
DSmash > Dsmash >Footstool > (turn around) Forward-down Tilt > Paralyzer > Paralyzer > Dsmash
and Dsmash > Dsmash > Footstool > Pivot Paralyzer > Paralyzer > Dsmash at mid percentage
or something dumb like that

The variation with the ftilt doesn't work at all percents, for obvious reasons.
And imo turning around before jumping is a lot easier than having to b-reverse the paralyzer (not that b-reverses are hard, but since you have to do it so quickly it becomes more likely that you'll screw up)

I've practiced many variations and imo the one I mentioned (same as the one NR posted, except he throws in an extra paralyzer to make the timing easier...I'll probably start doing that) is the easiest.

Also I don't like the way Salem played the ROB MU. He hardly had Dill in the air and kept getting hit by fairly obvious glide tossed gyros and lasers...and he kept going for risky flashy **** on BF and got punished. Stayed on the ground way too much :\

Definitely did well 1st stock game 2 though. Last stock was similar but Dill shouldn't have gotten hit by that dsmash :\