ZSS General Discussion

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Meh the chaingrab is escapable if the MK times his release just as the platform slows down/stops.
You get your GR > uair/dash attack/(fair) at that point though, or regrab fthrow.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

GR > fair made easy:
hold your thumb tip on Y and the rest on the A button, just hold sidewards and once close enough slide your thumb from Y to A.

:3

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

GR > fair made easy:
hold your thumb tip on Y and the rest on the A button, just hold sidewards and once close enough slide your thumb from Y to A.

:3

First off, whats the timing for the input.
Who else do we have a GR to fair on? TL and Ness right?

Second off.

sidewards

Lol

 

[Chronodiver Lokii]

Sideways, Ramses. Sidewards isn't a word.
Good job

 

[NickRiddle]

Sideward Sword?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I've been tired all day

I recorded some of the stuffsies but I failed hard so Peace better cut that stuff.

First off, whats the timing for the input.

first you dash
then you jump
then you fair

tl;dr practice noob

Who else do we have a GR to fair on? TL and Ness right?

yea and kirby iirc. not sure, but i did get it sometimes

 

[PEACE7]

I got you man

 

[infiniteV115]

[*]You can drop off the edge of BF/SV and do a double jump reversed upB, going through the stage. You must make sure that your momentum on the second jump means you're going straight up. You should aim to hit the part JUST before the diagonal ledge begins. That way, after upB, you can downB back to the ledge.
[*]On Final Destination this is safer, because you can walljump back to the ledge.

So this is what happens when you do it correctly.

And this is what happens when you do it incorrectly. (ie on Snake)

Obviously, DO NOT do this on Snake. XD

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

That was amusing.

V115, you play aginst patches alot?
I Mm'ed him at APEX.

 

[infiniteV115]

I've actually never played against him in singles. That wasn't actually Patches, it's a mistake in the title. The dude that recorded it is fairly new to the scene and probably assumed it was Patches since Patches is a G&W main.

But yeah Patches is from my region. How'd you do against him?

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I think i two stocked him twice.
He's a cool guy, he just didn't seem to know the MU.
I dual two stocked MPrime as well. He plays MK?

I should have recorded them -.-

 

[infiniteV115]

I'm assuming you mean the ZSS MU? Or did you go Puff?
Cause he doesn't have experience with either. Nobody plays Puff in Canada, and I'm like the only ZSS in Canada XD
I guess that means I'm the best ZSS in Canada :O

And yeah, MPrime mains MK. Though I think he's gonna be maining Pikachu now, not sure.

Yeah...they're not exactly the strongest players in my region. Though to be fair, Patches did exceptionally well at the last tourney in Southern Ontario (ie exceptionally well for him)

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I went ZSS. Puff/GW is broken.

 

[infiniteV115]

But Mink:g&w is like +9001^swag

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

That ....


Is true.

 

[Dakpo]

Double Posting because Dakpo PM'd me:

ZSS's Out of Shield Options:

Spot Dodge: Frame 1 Invc, Frame 25 FAF
F-Roll: Frame 4 Inv, Frame 27 FAF
B-Roll: Frame 4 Inv, Frame 37 FAF
Plasma Wire: Frame 6 Ground Hitbox
Shield Drop: Frame 7 FAF
Shield Drop > Jab: Frame 8 Hitbox
JC Usmash: Frame 9 Hitbox
Buffer Uair: Frame 9 Hitbox
Shield Drop > Utilt: Frame 10 Hitbox
Fair: Frame 11 hitbox
Shield Drop > Dtilt: Frame 12 Hitbox
Bair: Frame 13 hitbox
Shield Drop > Dash Attack: Frame 13 Hitbox
Shield Drop > Ftilt: Frame 13 hitbox
Nair: Frame 15 hitbox
Grab: Frame 16 hitbox
Shielddrop > Fsmash: Frame 16 hitbox
SH Flip Jump: Frame 17 Intang, Frame 32 Hitbox
Dair: Frame 19 hitbox
SH Paralyzer: Frame 26 hitbox
Shield Drop > Dsmash: Frame 27 hitbox
F Roll > Jab: Frame 28 Hitbox
SH Plasma Whip: Frame 29 hitbox (weak)

I based the specials off of your guy's frame data thread from SMP. The rest I did math for assuming 7 frames of shield drop and 5 frames of jump squat. I want to double check Plasma Wire's frame data because it says frame 1 on the thread, but that would mean it has a hitbox out as fast as spot dodge is invincible.

Edit: Yikarur says frame 6

Note: My stipulation if any of these being off a frame or two is that I can't read or add lol

what about Up B out of shield?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Spot Dodge: Frame 1 Invc, Frame 25 FAF
F-Roll: Frame 4 Inv, Frame 27 FAF
B-Roll: Frame 4 Inv, Frame 37 FAF
Plasma Wire: Frame 6 Ground Hitbox
Shield Drop: Frame 7 FAF
Shield Drop > Jab: Frame 8 Hitbox
JC Usmash: Frame 9 Hitbox
Buffer Uair: Frame 9 Hitbox
Shield Drop > Utilt: Frame 10 Hitbox
Fair: Frame 11 hitbox
Shield Drop > Dtilt: Frame 12 Hitbox
Bair: Frame 13 hitbox
Shield Drop > Dash Attack: Frame 13 Hitbox
Shield Drop > Ftilt: Frame 13 hitbox
Nair: Frame 15 hitbox
Grab: Frame 16 hitbox
Shielddrop > Fsmash: Frame 16 hitbox
SH Flip Jump: Frame 17 Intang, Frame 32 Hitbox
Dair: Frame 19 hitbox
SH Paralyzer: Frame 26 hitbox
Shield Drop > Dsmash: Frame 27 hitbox
F Roll > Jab: Frame 28 Hitbox
SH Plasma Whip: Frame 29 hitbox (weak)

bolded upb for you
the red ones are wrong

 

[Dakpo]

plasma wire? wtf?
lol

 

[Dakpo]

Double post, so what?
When do the hit boxes of up tilt end and the cool down start?
same goes for up smash
also, how do you guys figure out this frame data stuff >__<

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

SFP posted a frame data thread
the rest is basic math, considering jump = 5 frames (but cancel-able) and shield drop is 7.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Utilt = 56 frames total, but you can cancel from frame 46 onwards
hitbox 1 = frame 3-4
hitbox 2 = frame 7-8

5 and 6 damage respectively

-42 on shield (on powershield we get fsmashed by snake/dedede)

 

[Dakpo]

!? how do you cancel up tilt?
and can you link me to that thread. Sorry I'm making a video

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Almost every move has IASA frames, which means "Interrupt as Soon As". When you hit this frame, you can cancel the move.

For example, Utilt takes 56 frames of total, but you can move after 46.

it's dumb and useless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZtYQuv2H0Y

credits to PEACE MA HOMIE, stuff in my post is seen here. there should be a post coming about the smashville grab release (and why you should use it) and grab release fair against MKs that DI wrong.

smashville grab release is NOT intended for infinite, the best situation is getting a dsmash close to blast zone > fsmash tip hitbox.

as you can see, i dont know **** about that nB spacing from the ledge. teach me, oh great dakpo

 

[Dakpo]

so is the frame data in the zss guide thread as though every move was cancelled using IASA?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=305271

here you go buddy

 

[DeLux]

I apologize for the fsmash error, I misread my spread sheet data O_O
Not sure what I was smoking for the flip jump out of shield data. I think I need to wear my glasses.

Needless to say, I do make mistakes periodically, although I do my best not to :D

 

[infiniteV115]

Sorry if I'm tardy to the party with this one, but in case anyone hasn't seen it yet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFU2w-WJ8KA

 

[NickRiddle]

Sorry if I'm tardy to the party with this one, but in case anyone hasn't seen it yet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFU2w-WJ8KA

It makes me wonder how people are good against ZSS.
She's so good.

 

[infiniteV115]

I'm honestly of the opinion that ZSS only has 4 losing MUs.
MK, Diddy, Falco, Salem

 

[Zero]

I wonder how Nick feels about Snake nowadays.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Japanese think ZSS loses to Marth, MK, Olimar and ICs.

True story.

but they also think that none of it is hard counter.

Falco 52:48 ZSS
Diddy 48:52 ZSS

 

[NickRiddle]

I'm honestly of the opinion that ZSS only has 4 losing MUs.
MK, Diddy, Falco, Salem

I hate you.
Also, Salem = Pikachu?

I wonder how Nick feels about Snake nowadays.

Fairly easy.
Free game 2 if they don't ban BF.

Japanese think ZSS loses to Marth, MK, Olimar and ICs.

True story.

but they also think that none of it is hard counter.

Falco 52:48 ZSS
Diddy 48:52 ZSS

Well, we beat ICs, and go even with Marth, but we lose to Pikachu.

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah ok MK Diddy Falco Oli Pikachu Salem (and apparently Squirtle?)

ZSS beats Snake

I remember when I first came on the boards to read about ZSS and I read somewhere that she loses to Link by like 60:40 LOL

 

[NickRiddle]

Not Squirtle.
Stop saying Salem, you jerk.
ZSS goes even with Snake. I just beat Snake.

 

[infiniteV115]

Dakpo thinks we lose to Squirtle like 65:35
And no, Snake sucks

 

[Zero]

Ooooh, what brought on this? Last I recall (years) you were pretty emo about Snake.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I personally think we'll eventually only lose to MK and Olimar. That said, I think that a lot of match-ups in Brawl will either drift towards pretty even or pretty counter.

Falco is getting better and better, Diddy wasn't ever a losing match-up in results, Pikachu is bad but I'm gonna consider the Japanese PoV and seeing how free they made Pikachu look it's almost hard to even take that character serious haha. Wario and Snake should've just been even.

Camp Squirtle til he's fatigue, then enjoy never dying. Also, infinite that guy.

 

[NickRiddle]

Dakpo thinks we lose to Squirtle like 65:35
And no, Snake sucks

Dakpo doesn't play gay enough.
And no, ZSS has to mindgames Snake out the *** just to land one hit.

 

[PEACE7]

What infinite does ZSS have on squirtle the regrabs?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

yeah same as wario lol