ZSS General Discussion

[shlike]

true footstool ftw

 

[NickRiddle]

true footstool ftw

D-smash > footstool > lolololol

It's a combo.

 

[noradseven]

I'm 99% sure we can chaingrab diddy

discuss

as long as you can avoid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czL5yCCgiNQ

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Bowser:

1. Really really really really really easy to grab.

2. 0-69%+regrab CG

3. Easiest character for us to edgeguard, even easier than DK

4. Can start a dash attack lock ANY TIME before 71% and after 33%

This is what makes it easy. There are other things, such as the fact that he can't camp you at all and his spot dodge is terrible and easily punished by like anything we have.

Yon can literally CG->spike him Falco style

 

[noradseven]

Bowser:

1. Really really really really really easy to grab.

2. 0-69%+regrab CG

3. Easiest character for us to edgeguard, even easier than DK

4. Can start a dash attack lock ANY TIME before 71% and after 33%

This is what makes it easy. There are other things, such as the fact that he can't camp you at all and his spot dodge is terrible and easily punished by like anything we have.

Yon can literally CG->spike him Falco style

I can tell you right now if you can edgeguard DK easy they arn't a good DK. Just say'n, its not increda hard though.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krL5J6mLX18

^ Last two stocks show what I mean.

Bowser has no options offstage except to drop low and try to sweetspot, which leaves him vulnerable in other ways.

 

[Nefarious B]

I'm 99% sure we can chaingrab diddy

discuss

I wish

And who cares who's easiest, we all know that we should be winning every single time vs those characters. Atleast Bowser has some speed and can punish our spacing if we **** up

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I wish

And who cares who's easiest, we all know that we should be winning every single time vs those characters. Atleast Bowser has some speed and can punish our spacing if we **** up

look at his position after an air release..

 

[Nefarious B]

Oh air release CG? We don't air release Diddy in the first place. Taken from Faded's old *** thread:

Characters who get dash grabbed BUT no-input break to the ground (chaingrab-able IF they resist):
Bowser, Diddy Kong, Link, Ganondorf, Zero Suit Samus, Falco, Charizard, Ike, Sonic.

Computer's always resist so if you were playing a comp yeah it would work

 

[Phiddlesticks]

I think Bowser is our easiest match-up, even easier than Ganon or Ivysaur or ROB. Discuss.

I think it isn't surprising that you think this if the player in your video is your only Bowser experience xD

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Oh air release CG? We don't air release Diddy in the first place. Taken from Faded's old *** thread:

Computer's always resist so if you were playing a comp yeah it would work

Most players resist anyway... really. Just grab him and take a sneak peak at his controller, I always do that when I fight warios with my falco, and it works lol.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I think it isn't surprising that you think this if the player in your video is your only Bowser experience xD

Uh it has very little to do with the way sook playing. Context, buddy.

Most players resist anyway... really. Just grab him and take a sneak peak at his controller, I always do that when I fight warios with my falco, and it works lol.

This would work exactly once, probaby

 

[Phiddlesticks]

It has everything to do with the way he was playing lol. He has no idea what he is doing with bowser -> he has no idea how to defend against your little gimmick. At least you didn't like use a video against a computer player

Also, I'm not your buddy, guy

 

[solecalibur]

I think it isn't surprising that you think this if the player in your video is your only Bowser experience xD

I dont find Bowser's matchup vs ZSS as bad I have a pretty decent one in our area and I friendlied him a couple times it wasn't that bad of a match up once you LEARN it like all match ups you cant really just go in and say lol Ive never vs'd a fox before but I have an infinite on him

Also, I'm not your buddy, guy

.... Im not starting it

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

It has everything to do with the way he was playing lol. He has no idea what he is doing with bowser -> he has no idea how to defend against your little gimmick. At least you didn't like use a video against a computer player

Also, I'm not your buddy, guy

I was illustrating the CG->spike, not showing that I can kick my friend's *** with Bowser. His Bowser sucks but you are missing the point of me linking said video.

 

[CRASHiC]

Heyyyyyyy
My PSA buddies. now that D3s Pac works, I need some help figuring out how to get all of D3s frame data out of it. Any help?

 

[NickRiddle]

Heyyyyyyy
My PSA buddies. now that D3s Pac works, I need some help figuring out how to get all of D3s frame data out of it. Any help?

Debug mode.

 

[Nefarious B]

Can someone link debug mode code here so I can test some things when I get back home for Thanksgiving?

 

[o-Serin-o]

If your trying to figure out who riddle is he is one of the top 3 ZSS's FYI.

I know this. And right now, since Snakeee doesn't do anything, he's #1

There's a third best ZSS?

 

[Snakeee]

I know this. And right now, since Snakeee doesn't do anything, he's #1

There's a third best ZSS?

What a biased, unintelligent post. I'm not going to say anything either way because I'm not like that, but who just says stuff like this?

 

[o-Serin-o]

Okay then, let me start over.







Choose which one you want to reply to.



"I haven't seen any recent results from Snakeee in a while in recent tournaments unless I may have overlooked them. If anyone knows any results of his current placings, please let me know "


"Snakeee is a great ZSS, but I haven't seen any results from him. By my current perspective, best characters have more recent placings. Correct me if I'm wrong."


"Who is the third best ZSS? I know of Snakeee and Nick Riddle. Who is the last one?"





Better?

 

[CRASHiC]

The third is Dazwa, all 3 could be anywhere in the list.

 

[NickRiddle]

CRASHiC, make the DDDs go away.

 

[CRASHiC]

CRASHiC, make the DDDs go away.

He's like Beetle Juice, just don't type his name and we should be fine.

Also, there is a true Debug mode code in Brawl? Or are you talking about the frame per frame pause mode?

 

[ph00tbag]

He's like Beetle Juice, just don't type his name and we should be fine.

Also, there is a true Debug mode code in Brawl? Or are you talking about the frame per frame pause mode?

There's no debug mode, but there is the frame advance stuff

also, there are visible hitbubbles, too.

I've been working on them for ZSS, but they haven't turned out, yet.

 

[Snakeee]

Okay then, let me start over.







Choose which one you want to reply to.



"I haven't seen any recent results from Snakeee in a while in recent tournaments unless I may have overlooked them. If anyone knows any results of his current placings, please let me know "


"Snakeee is a great ZSS, but I haven't seen any results from him. By my current perspective, best characters have more recent placings. Correct me if I'm wrong."


"Who is the third best ZSS? I know of Snakeee and Nick Riddle. Who is the last one?"





Better?

Lol, I don't care too much about what opinions are on all that, it was just the way you said it that annoyed me. No worries though.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I'm sure Dazwa doesn't know who you are either.

 

[CRASHiC]

Further conviencing me that Juri is an Ark Systems charecter that sneaked her way into Street Fighter, her fireballs can be used very similar to Bees.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/act...23/super-street-fighter-iv-extended-tots-demo

Watch at 0:25, watch how long it last and how it shuts down aerial approaches.
Then there is the fact that her playstyle outside of this reminds me so much of A.B.A. after transformation.

 

[o-Serin-o]

Ohhhhh, it's Dazwa.

Okay then.

 

[noradseven]

Actually I wasn't really sure who the 3rd best ZSS is now, no ZSS's have really been getting tourney results as late which makes me feel like our character is almost placed to high in the tier list.

Dazwa was good stuff but I havn't heard anything from him lately as well.

 

[solecalibur]

Just becasue we have little zss rep doesnt mean that she isnt higher on the tier list
Its just like going to a town and looking at there created teir list and mk isnt top , it would be nice to give motivation to play zss and there are more people picking her up then ever so in good time

 

[noradseven]

Just becasue we have little zss rep doesnt mean that she isnt higher on the tier list
Its just like going to a town and looking at there created teir list and mk isnt top , it would be nice to give motivation to play zss and there are more people picking her up then ever so in good time

IDK she is decently played in NC, I know like 2 mains me and ph00t(retired from reg brawl), and like 3-4 subs, and a few former mains(lol ph00t did you know foxy used to main ZSS :D). Thats about average for most the cast from what I have seen sure I see more falcos and stuff but I only know even less of some of the A tier characters, and people that actually play DDD/G&W.

IDK I think the smash community gives ZSS a bit too much credit, but we are tourney viable even with falco nothing isn't winnable just alot of stuff is bad, which is why I say she feels like a mid-low tier character, because against the characters you will see used in a tourney thats how she plays, most of her matches will be neutral or negative, with a few positives in random locations.

The biggest problem is the give us credit for the wrong reasons, over B not good reason to be A-B tier whatever, u-air resets/dodge traps, yeah those are actually **** good.

 

[SASSY]

Zero suit is hard to place with! I think she should be a little lower on the tier list probably. I think she is really good but she's one of the toughest characters to consistently place with because of her high-risk / high-reward nature. ZSS wins by knowing every match-up and just playing smarter. I personally think we need to re-evaluate a lot of our match-ups, since I think we've all changed our play-styles over the past year...

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I still say ZSS is A tier. But uh, the thing of it is, is that A tier isn't that good. For instance, what BIG THINGS have Pikachu and Olimar done in the past year? Not much.

The only A tier characters that actually place are Marth and ICs who are potentially S tier.

 

[SASSY]

I still say ZSS is A tier. But uh, the thing of it is, is that A tier isn't that good. For instance, what BIG THINGS have Pikachu and Olimar done in the past year? Not much.

The only A tier characters that actually place are Marth and IC's who are potentially S tier.

Well, this is my region: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235199

We've had Olimar and Kirby win just about as much Marth and IC's. Even the Lucario's do really well. They just don't come to as many tourneys. Then again, we have a lot of character representation in MD/VA. Meta=boring.

I mean I do agree that Marth and IC's are a step above the rest of A tier, but I believe that Olimar, Kirby, and Lucario are more well rounded characters than ZSS. The way I see it, Brawl is a campy game by nature, and those characters are better at camping than ZSS. Also, the learning curve for ZSS is way higher IMO.

 

[Nefarious B]

For me it's not really that I feel ZSS is amazing, so much as I think there isn't really anyone worthy of passing her. I look at the characters below her and they're mostly very 2 dimensional, flawed, easily counterpicked characters.

I know a lot of people feel like this game is pretty well balanced considering the cast size. I've been leaning the other way lately, I feel like S tier is vastly superior to A and below, although ICs and Marth would be included in that S tier. Basically, S tier are characters that are either very well rounded, or so strong in certain areas that their flaws don't really matter. Aside from weird matchups like Peach vs Wario, S tier characters are only really countered by other S tiers

 

[FK1]

I've been getting tournament results...but you people don't seem to care. Is the tournament results thread still working?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I've been getting tournament results...but you people don't seem to care. Is the tournament results thread still working?

It is not. Dazwa stopped updating it.

Basically I agree with Nefarious. It isn't that ZSS is bad, it's that she's A tier, and A tier characters all have pretty big flaws or severe counterpicking issues. Actually I don't know if I believe ICs are S tier; I really believe there are only 4-5 S tier characters (MK, Diddy, Snake, Falco, and maybe Marth, but probably not; one player S tier does not make).

I think a lot of people would say that Pikachu and Olimar are better characters than ZSS even though that is in no way true; they just don't place better than she does, on average. BTW, Sassy, Snakeee still places really well even for an A-tier character in the most difficult region in the US to place in. His lack of results stem more from him attending less tournaments because he's in college and doesn't drive home every weekend for a tourney.

He got 17th or 13th or something at Viridian, tying with the best Olimar in the country, and Pierce, a really great Marth player. Will, Bum, Cable, Jash, and Boss are the only players below S-tier that placed higher than him, and they won basically one more match than he did.

It is absolutely fair to say that ZSS players haven't been doing as well lately but I don't think it's because ZSS is getting worse, I think it's just because the divide between high tier and top tier is growing and high tier is less viable now. I also agree that ZSS is harder to play but that doesn't matter; learning curve means zero when it comes to tier placement.

 

[CRASHiC]

I was talking to a friend, a Street Fighter player who lives in SoCal, and he was describing Viper's problem with placing in tournaments, and all of it sounded amazingly similar to the issue that ZSS has, about having to be played perfectly and relying heavily on mistakes from the opponent.

 

[Mazaloth]

C-viper is hard to play with because of the precision needed to hit with her specials. Her burning kick has no backframes and do not hit crouching targets. This said, a Thunder knuckle feint or Seismo Hammer usually startes this combo. But, even then you must time it perfectly and hope that the character doesn't Ex DP.

Really the only thing she can do is bait, lure, and punish.

Though saying that she doesn't have good openings is a lie. Her armor breaking moves are fast along with her high-jump she can really mess with the timing of the other person.