ZSS Frame Trap Compendium

[B.A.M.]

ZSS Frame Trap Compendium

Introduction​

Hey guys Im trying to get every character board to start placing whatever frame traps that are known in one concise thread. I was intending to make that thread and update regularly but of course it would be infinitely easier if we can get all of us together and start posting some ZSS goods. I also believe itd be good for new players to look at to better understand what to use in certain situations, so they dont just think unless you get a Dsmash u should just camp.

So can the ZSS mains help me out on this? Just tell me ones you know, and if one its particularly strong in your eyes a detailed analysis would be great for the OP. So lets begin yeah?

Frame Traps:

[COLLAPSE="DEFINITION:"]A set of two actions that due to the first action's cooldown, shield stun, range or a combination of these sorts punishes majority of defensive options present.[/COLLAPSE]


Grounded Frame Traps:





Aerial Frame Traps:


Up B:

ZSS up B is disjointed to another level, which is wonderful because it comes out frame 3 as well as boost ZSS jump, you can harass basically the entire cast with it. If ZSS is below you, you cant really challenge her up B. Which makes for a great primary in a frame trap.

[COLLAPSE="Hide"]Uair: a truly brilliant move and one of the top moves in the game. the greatness in this frame trap lies in the fact you can repeat it at times without leaving the ground due to the up B jump boost. Oh and Uair kills beautiful off the top. kinda important.

Bair: sometimes that Uair is decayed due to its awesome utility. In those cases Bair shines as a kill move; its quick, nice disjoint and great knockback. This is nice frame trap to utilize for the kill.
[/COLLAPSE]

 

[B.A.M.]

Will wait on Nick Riddle's frame trap data that should be coming by the end of the week before updating. However if any of the solid ZSS mains have some frame traps AND or option selects often used please PLEASE post in here so we can discuss. Thank you!


Oh and I hear some ZSS talkin about how good Usmash OoS is. Should I put up the OS ( option select) for it?

 

[NickRiddle]

In the air.
Side b > opponent air-dodges and is near ZSS > uair/bair/nair/fair

That's the easiest one. I'll do more later. I'm so tired after losing to Ike.

 

[Dakpo]

losing to what!?

 

[Tesh]

I think its really silly that you put the definition in collapse tags when it only takes up 1 line.

 

[B.A.M.]

I think its really silly that you put the definition in collapse tags when it only takes up 1 line.

I think its fine. I intend to add more to have a more all encompassing definition. As well as put a ton of key strong examples in every compendium I made. So i think its silly you assume that the final product.



I win.

 

[infiniteV115]

Is jab1-->dtilt a frame trap on anything?
I stopped using it after it stopped working XD

 

[fkacyan]

Is jab1-->dtilt a frame trap on anything?
I stopped using it after it stopped working XD

Jab is a frametrap on itself if you do anything but jab2 or run away.

EDIT: I mean, there are mindgames, but you can't gauranteed set up anything with jab except resets or more jabs

 

[infiniteV115]

So going up to jab2 is safer than just doing jab1? :S

 

[fkacyan]

So going up to jab2 is safer than just doing jab1? :S

No.

Jab2 is worse except if Jab1 connected when the enemy was in the air or against a small subset of characters that jab2 actually chains to jab3 on.

Jab1 just autochains to jab2, it what I'm saying. Jabbing in general is bad against a lot of characters. High risk low reward.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I disagree on jab. So long as you aren't abusing it, jab 1 is worthwhile. No one has a frame 1 reaction time, you can usually jab 1 and at least run away. It's not really an offensive tool though.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

I disagree on jab. So long as you aren't abusing it, jab 1 is worthwhile. No one has a frame 1 reaction time, you can usually jab 1 and at least run away. It's not really an offensive tool though.

If you get real lucky, they'll buffer something funny and as you get away they'll do something you can punish. It's happened to me a few times. Otherwise, be sure to realize that this won't stop someone's offensive push for very long... it's *just* enough time to get away.

 

[DeLux]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13535195&postcount=48

 

[infiniteV115]

What are IASA frames? They're not 'buffer frames', are they?

 

[wWw Dazwa]

What are IASA frames? They're not 'buffer frames', are they?

"Interruptable As Soon As," meaning you can cancel a part of the animation during the IASA window. The only obvious example I have on the top of my head is Melee Marth's d-tilt, the window to cancel the ending animation is huge.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

It just means the animation lasts longer than the move. IASA frames refer to the amount of frames the animation lasts after the move ends.

 

[PEACE7]

Isn't the first hit of fair a frame trap itself?. Also charged neutral b when the opponent is near the ledge, which causes a forced edgeslip into buffered downB spike. And after 100% I was told that you can dsmashx3 haven't tested it yet. Salem showed me a bunch of stuff including all of these.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

After 90% you can dsmash x3 and then uair. It kills on light characters if uair is fresh but due to the nature of our match-ups with floaties it almost never is... and uair is the only aerial that connects, everything else whiffs/gets airdodged.

First hit fair isn't a frame trap because in almost all cases it's better to get hit by the first hit and mash the cstick away, first hit fair is super easy to escape. There's no reason to airdodge and risk 11% damage when you can just get hit and take 6%, SDI, and avoid the rest.

 

[infiniteV115]

People seem to almost never SDI fair. I know you can, but people just don't like 99% of the time.
I like people :D

 

[PEACE7]

Yea they almost never do sdi it which is why I thought that. That's really cool tho dsmashx3 to upair is ****.

 

[B.A.M.]

yeah dsmash x 3, uair has been around for a couple years now.

I concur with what you are saying Supermodel from Paris. People would have to react to the fact its a fair though in the air and not a uair. iono why someone would just get hit and SDI it, thats kind of dumb. In the case that its another aerial, you just allowed yourself to get hit for no reason. And if you wait and you realize something like 'oh they re are doing side b instead and you AD, then u are frame trapped. Realistically it would be stupid to seriously sit there and try to SDI fair when there are tons of options, BETTER options that could hit you due to that silly commitment.

You SDI fair if you can react to it when you are going to get hit. You dont purposely get hit by it.

Oh and that really makes no sense to deem it not a frame trap due to it being SDI able. Its not a frame trap if you dont gain reasonable advantage vs an ADing opponent. Any other point has NOTHING to do with what its defined as.

 

[infiniteV115]

Congrats on getting into the lab, BAM.

Edit: 'Smash lab" is an anagram for "BAM SLASH"

 

[Dakpo]

yeah dsmash x 3, uair has been around for a couple years now.

yet shlike is like the only one to do it lol

 

[wWw Dazwa]

yet shlike is like the only one to do it lol

I do it every now and then.

 

[Dakpo]

Dazwa posted
KK let me edit my post
Only like Shlike AND Dazwa ever do it. I always forget about it

 

[Salem]

Just so you guys know, what peace means to say is that if you get off with a first hit FF f-air on an opponent below 30%(Using snake weight) they'll go into a forced ground slide animation, in which, the opponent can't move for just a few frames which is enough for Zss to hit them, though the only move Zss can hit with afterwards would be is jab (Zss has pretty much only about... 2 frames to react to get the hit after the f-air) Besides that, if you perform this near the ledge and your opponent ledge slips, you set your opponent up to be screwed as they're unable to move for quite some time, it's just perfect for Zss to do the following...

D-smash(First hit F-air must had hit at the very last second before you had landed and you must buffer d-smash afterwards) B-air, dash attack(buffered?), u-air, f-air, footstool. d-air(footstool required lolololol), d-tilt, f-tilt angled down

You can also do "some" of these with neutral-b uncharged and of course, you can also do these with dash attack though it has to be done at a low percentage to force a ground slide and the ledge slip, from there you can footstool them, I don't know about anything else though.
Oh and guys, it'd be stupid to use first hit f-air at higher percentages unless you're doing something unorthodox, though I'm going to test it to see what silly shenanigans I can find out of it since it's always mentioned around me when what's really being talked about is its ability to force a ground slide and ledge slip.

Oh and a somebody please master these ledge slip shenanigans, I can't do it.

 

[PEACE7]

^ Yeeeee that's what I meant.
I just suck at explaining.

 

[infiniteV115]

First hit fair is good for edgeguarding Wario if his bike is on the stage
And it's ****ing hilarious too XD

 

[Dakpo]

i dont get how salem has so many posts but i almost never see him on the boards

 

[B.A.M.]

i dont get how salem has so many posts but i almost never see him on the boards

Sooo true lol.

@Infinite: tank kyuuuu

 

[culexus・wau]

I think he posts on General Brawl Discussion a lot.

In regards to Dsmash x3: I think I have a fast enough hitconfirm for Triple Dsmash -> upair but I can't trust myself enough to do in matches!

:<

 

[Zero]

imo most of the time you should be able to tell if dsmash is probable to land and buffer your reaction.

 

[culexus・wau]

I dislike commiting myself to a double dsmash

like

I'll commit to roll or tilt.

but no one respects my dsmash enough for me to get away with a second one on block :[ (yet)

 

[shlike]

triple dsmash is easy if you get it off a read, and it you can do it off of reaction. Its like 20+ frames which should be enough time to figure out whether youre gonna dsmash again or not. I usually triple dsmash around 70% to build up damage and set up a pretty good opportunity for a ko. Triple dsmash fair works on dedede at high % trololo~



also flamewave if you know dsmash is NOT gonna hit, you can charge it (if youre spaced correctly) and still not get punished because its +1 on block, this is a good way to see how your opponent reacts to shield pressure (see if they spot dodge, roll, sit in shield, etc) its good for mixing up and conditioning your opponent. I throw out dsmash as a pressure too mainly to see how my opponent reacts and then begin to punish their habits.

 

[Zero]

I dislike commiting myself to a double dsmash

like

I'll commit to roll or tilt.

but no one respects my dsmash enough for me to get away with a second one on block :[ (yet)

Nah, every competent player will hit you out if it. It's just too long.

 

[xxpatgxx]

Charged nuetral B and uncharged neutral B> grab is a frame trap even if the opponent shields anything.

If you shoot a fully charged neutral B, their only options are jumping over it or roll dodging it.

Side stepping can avoid the uncharged shots, but the fully charged ones will always hit due to the slow speed.

If they powershield any shot they must react quickly and buffer the above mentioned to avoid the grab followup.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Charged nuetral B and uncharged neutral B> grab is a frame trap even if the opponent shields anything.

If you shoot a fully charged neutral B, their only options are jumping over it or roll dodging it.

Side stepping can avoid the uncharged shots, but the fully charged ones will always hit due to the slow speed.

If they powershield any shot they must react quickly and buffer the above mentioned to avoid the grab followup.

Charge shot --> uncharged shot --> grab?

Doesn't this all get neutralized by double jumping or fleeing to a platform?

 

[Juushichi]

Seems like as a ZS you would like both of those options.

... As a mixup. Naturally you don't want to commit to a grab at that time.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Seems like as a ZS you would like both of those options.

... As a mixup. Naturally you don't want to commit to a grab at that time.

Haha, very true! I didn't even think of that. I guess I'm imagining that they touch back down on the ground after the second shot... though i suppose if you see them coming back down you can dsmash if they are close or repeat the situation if they are far away.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

No he's talking about nB (charged or baby) to grab.