ZGD: Livin by a thread.

[DiskaSM]

Show us an example then, Fujin.

-leaves-

 

[Rizen]

Lol, Diska is really on the ball. He caught that before anyone else posted.

 

[Mocha]

lmao. Brazilians have a different dance

 

[Alacion]

What is this I don't even...

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Mocha, Diska tells me you can do this
:o

is this true???

She can, I have seen her do it.

 

[choknater]

man.. played brawl a little bit

using zelda is hard

it leaves a scar in my chest

 

[Alacion]

Zelda is very hard to be successful with. Just gotta find a way to make it work.

 

[choknater]

i typically use sheik/zelda

 

[Alacion]

So today I learned to tech Wolf's dthrow. Not totally consistent but I think it's useful to learn

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Teching is good, though her otg roll is enough to get her away in most cases.

It's probably the best roll in the game. lol

 

[Alacion]

Yeah I thought her roll was super fast and travels a good distance. But yeah that down throw of Wolf's is really good.

At least we have Love Jump and a long recovery so even if we miss a tech we aren't totally screwed Two Wolfs in my region and I'm only learning this now? smh

 

[Rizen]

So today I learned to tech Wolf's dthrow. Not totally consistent but I think it's useful to learn

Wolf has a good Dthrow for one that doesn't chain, 12% damage, low angle. Be careful when tecking it too. Wolf has a minor teck chase game, teck: in place-jabs/Ftilt/smash, away-blaster/DAC/Fsmash, behind-Dsmash/SH Bair. It varies a lot depending on your damage% and rolls or if you miss the teck. Dthrow against a wall chains into it's self at some %s.

 

[holyv]

Tech the d-throw

Get dsmashed after (Powershielding possibility, character based)

Don't tech the d-throw

Get tech chased

**** YOU WOLF
--------------------

I just noticed, why the Social is not sticky?

DAMN THE ZELDA BOARD IS CONFUSING

 

[KuroganeHammer]

dthrow is the least of your problems in that MU. His forward air and back air literally destroy Zelda's options, then you have forward smash, one of the best punishers in the game, DACUS, his STUPID horizontal momentum cancelling, jab and blaster and a frame 1 intangibility move which spikes and combos into jab lawl.

Also up air. It's ughhhhhh.

 

[Mocha]

Tesh is lurking the Zelda boards o:

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Zelda is a fun character and I have no idea why.
Also, what would you say your character must rely upon most in order to really outperform other characters.

I feel Zelda has to rely more on really knowing her opponents tendencies and bait as much as possible for punishes.

 

[Alacion]

I dunno when you land just about anything with Zelda, there's a feel-good feeling... especially her high precision aerials. Maybe it's because you can actually win by spamming smash attacks too

Matchup and player experience are useful as you stated. Good spacing and forcing approaches (somehow) definitely helps. Zelda especially struggles against characters that space really well (Marth) or projectile spams (Falco). I'm relatively new but I'm thinking Zelda requires a lot more practise and playing time than most other characters before she can start to do decently. One unfamiliar matchup (especially against a patient player) and things become trouble

Thinking ahead, reading, and baiting are good and such, but they apply to all characters I'd think.

But the opponent learning the Zelda matchup and your own tendencies negates all this and probably makes things even worse.


Late Happy Valentines Day! Kat this also means new thread title please!

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I'm helping out a friend and would like to help out, but not sure how I can. I guess I'll simply learn what I can.

Would you disagree with any of this zelda knowledge at all?

Usmash is great for out of shield because it cannot be SDI'd very easily. Its long hitbox also makes it great for catching people airdodging to the ground or simply approaching from the air in general.

Dtilt once or twice when it hits them, then go into shield or some other move to quickly take advantage of the situation. For example Dsmash. Repeatedly doing Dtilt more than a couple of times is not good because foe can SDI away and avoid punishment from Zelda.

Fsmash should not be punished if it hits shield.

Dash attack makes for a good long distance punish if she is too far away. Drop shield -> dash attack for laggier moves with higher shield push.

Nair makes a great poke move when Zelda is in the air. SH nair while someone is on a platform is rather safe.

Dins fire should only be used when there is no chance of getting punished or giving the opponent back the advantage.

Its better for Zelda to stay onstage and wait for the opponent to get up from the ledge rather than go out there herself.

Zelda's Uthrow is by far her best throw to use in most situations.

 

[Rizen]

I'm helping out a friend and would like to help out, but not sure how I can. I guess I'll simply learn what I can.

Would you disagree with any of this zelda knowledge at all?

Usmash is great for out of shield because it cannot be SDI'd very easily. Its long hitbox also makes it great for catching people airdodging to the ground or simply approaching from the air in general.

Dtilt once or twice when it hits them, then go into shield or some other move to quickly take advantage of the situation. For example Dsmash. Repeatedly doing Dtilt more than a couple of times is not good because foe can SDI away and avoid punishment from Zelda.

Fsmash should not be punished if it hits shield.

Dash attack makes for a good long distance punish if she is too far away. Drop shield -> dash attack for laggier moves with higher shield push.

Nair makes a great poke move when Zelda is in the air. SH nair while someone is on a platform is rather safe.

Dins fire should only be used when there is no chance of getting punished or giving the opponent back the advantage.

Its better for Zelda to stay onstage and wait for the opponent to get up from the ledge rather than go out there herself.

Zelda's Uthrow is by far her best throw to use in most situations.

Some of those are situational but the red ones I disagree with. Dtilt has a lock and can hit characters several times between certain %s (around 50% to 100%). It's best to get as much dammage as you can while the lock works. Characters can DI out but during the lock it takes them a long time.
Zelda's Uthrow doesn't have good potential for followups. I usually Dthrow or Fthrow/Bthrow depending on the edge positioning.

More experienced Zeldas can give you advice on the other things.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Some of those are situational but the red ones I disagree with. Dtilt has a lock and can hit characters several times between certain %s (around 50% to 100%). It's best to get as much dammage as you can while the lock works. Characters can DI out but during the lock it takes them a long time.
Zelda's Uthrow doesn't have good potential for followups. I usually Dthrow or Fthrow/Bthrow depending on the edge positioning.

More experienced Zeldas can give you advice on the other things.

Regarding dtilt, good players will SDI out on the first two hits.

Regarding up throw, it's better than dthrow because:

1. more damage
2. puts opponents above Zelda

dthrow is easily DI'd away and grants no followups, and because she takes so long dthrow'ing, every decent player will DI away.

Regarding staying on the stage, there is a part of Battlefield were Zelda has the option to beat every single ledge option just with d-smash and upsmash. It's pretty neat.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Yea, dtilt/uthrow were more things I observed playing against Zelda.

Dthrow does not seem to give any advantage outside of 30%-40% range. DI away and your not getting hit by anything since you'll be back on the ground. If you Fthrow/Bthrow someone off stage, the only thing you get out of it is stage advantage (when they get to the ledge) and maybe a couple of Din's Fire attempts (which can be stopped by simply timing an aerial to clank with it).

Uthrow seemed appealing to me because it puts them in the air above you and Zelda stands between them and the ground or ledge. By spacing yourself, you can try to catch landing lag on the ground, airdodges behind you, hitting them safely from the protection of platforms.

Dtilt simply seemed like it never locked me. A little ASDI or SDI away seemed to be enough in about 1-3 hits to get out or powershield the next Dtilt.

 

[Fuujin]

Usmash is great for out of shield because it cannot be SDI'd very easily. Its long hitbox also makes it great for catching people airdodging to the ground or simply approaching from the air in general.

Well I wouldn't say great for OSS.
D smash is faster and much safer but it only has low hitboxes, U smash is better for punishing aerials or for when you're confident it will hit.
The bad thing about U smash is that is super easy to punish if it touches an opponents shield, so it's sort of risky.
Overall D smash is usually a better option if they are within range.

Usmash is great for out of shield because it cannot be SDI'd very easily.

This is usually true, except for against certain characters.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13544577&postcount=99
Some characters get out of this pretty easily, and they can punish Zelda for landing it if they know about this.

Dtilt once or twice when it hits them, then go into shield or some other move to quickly take advantage of the situation. For example Dsmash. Repeatedly doing Dtilt more than a couple of times is not good because foe can SDI away and avoid punishment from Zelda.

I wouldn't just stop using d tilt and shield after a few hits, I would always go for a follow up.
I usually grab, because it gives you 4 different trajectories to follow up with after d tilt.
You can do lots of things out of d tilt once they trip though
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=290399
Kayla wrote about it on section 2

I think you should actually go for the d tilt lock, try to get as many d tilts in for as long as you can as Zelda has a very hard time racking up damage without staling her smash attacks. Just know that it won't work one people once they adapt to it.

Fsmash should not be punished if it hits shield.

I've never had it punished, but all the other Zelda's talk about that SSDI thing and how F smash isn't safe on shield because of it.

Dash attack makes for a good long distance punish if she is too far away. Drop shield -> dash attack for laggier moves with higher shield push.

Dash attack is pretty much her only punish from a distance because her grab is too slow unless its a super laggy move, so I agree with this.

Nair makes a great poke move when Zelda is in the air. SH nair while someone is on a platform is rather safe.

Dins fire should only be used when there is no chance of getting punished or giving the opponent back the advantage.

Its better for Zelda to stay onstage and wait for the opponent to get up from the ledge rather than go out there herself.

I agree with all of that for the most part.

Zelda's Uthrow is by far her best throw to use in most situations.

Where did you hear this from?

Edit: Just read the last post.

Zelda has like the 3rd slowest ground speed, Ideally she likes having the opponent above her but she just isn't fast enough to punish most characters landings.
I think d throw is her most useful, it doesn't have guaranteed follow ups but you'd be surprised how many times people fail to DI it correctly and you can follow up with Up smash or a LK.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I'm surprised people are agreeing with Fsmash being safe on shield. I have heard it mentioned quite frequently it is safe on shield.

Although, I seem to be punishing it all the time with shield drop -> dash attack with Snake/Falco. Even your frame data says its -9 frame advantage against shield drop. One frame to start dash and another 6 for the hitboxes to come out. Perhaps the zelda I play against is not shielding ever after the attack for me to ever really know.

 

[KayLo!]

It's relatively safe, but only because of its range/shield push. At maximum range, your opponent is usually far enough away that you can escape or shield before they can get to you -- at least with their ground options.

But that obviously doesn't apply to some characters.

I mean, it's Brawl. Not too many things are truly safe on shield in this game. ;;

 

[Fuujin]

According to scary its not safe at all on shield with SSDI.

 

[KayLo!]

Do people really pull that off consistently nowadays? Back in the old days (read: a year+ ago), it was more of a theoretically possible thing that nobody actually did. =X

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Yeah, that's something that has changed. Brawl introduced a ton of new players will very little technical skill to a fighter. The game is not very demanding in that field. Over the years it makes sense that people get more skilled doing such things when they try to learn it.

Even so, you might still pull off shield DI by mistake. I have the habit of tilting my shield a lot. So by holding towards the opponent when I put up shield, I might get a little put of shield DI towards them if its a multi-hitting attack.

 

[Fuujin]

Idk, I don't think I've ever had it happen to me on f smash.
But Zelda is a rarely used character that most people don't know how to fight, so she ends up getting away with A LOT of things that she shouldn't, which is why I think
D throw with it's follow ups is more useful than U throw.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Well I wouldn't say great for OSS.
D smash is faster and much safer but it only has low hitboxes, U smash is better for punishing aerials or for when you're confident it will hit.
The bad thing about U smash is that is super easy to punish if it touches an opponents shield, so it's sort of risky.
Overall D smash is usually a better option if they are within range.

OoS, U-smash is faster actually.

And d-smash on the first hit is just as punishable as u-smash.

Regarding SSDI, I do this on the Halberd's lazer for epic fun tiems.

Dthrow followups rely on your opponent being stupid.

 

[Mocha]

I actually prefer Back Air OoS (on a number of moves you're trying to shield, you can net a sweet spot Back Air, especially on taller opponents). I've also been doing more Nair OoS lately. Her smashes are okay out of shield, but it depends what you're shielding, range, character you're fighting/etc.

Upsmash is better used for covering landings (as well as Dash attack). Grounded Upsmash, if someone shields, leaves us in enough cooldown for them to punish if they're close. F-smash/D-smash are more situational. Course, I'm one of those people who like to use Up B OoS every now and then, so some of the things I say may sound preposterous.

Her Up Throw is best used at 0 or very early percents, because it's easier to follow up with Up Air or Nair (or an Upsmash even, if you read the air dodge). Down throw has more possible follow-ups, not guaranteed, but even though your opponent can get out of one follow-up possibility, it doesn't mean you can't try another option.

So far I've been able to follow-up Down Throw into: Jab, F-tilt, F-smash, Upsmash, Back air, Forward air (buffered), Up air, Down air, Nair, and buffered regrab. All of these can be avoidable as your opponent, however not all of these can be avoidable at the same time, so it may take a read or a lucky guess to have a successful follow-up.

 

[Rizen]

OoS Usmash is better if it can catch the opponent in the air and Dsmash is better if the ground hitbubble(s) can connect. Dsmash ends so much faster than Usmash and has better shield push so it's safer if the opponent's not attacking from the air.
Dtilt locks: you should go for as much damage as you can get away with before the followup. There's no point in cutting it short and you can see when the opponent is about to escape and followup then.
Every throw in most situations relies on reading your opponent. Zelda doesn't have cheap tricks like DDD. Uthrow gives the opponent better options to escape. Dthrow puts them in a good place for Bair/Usmash or forces them to use their 2nd jump to avoid landing punishes. Sometimes with Dthrow the opponent lands on a low platform and can be LKed.

Edit: Note, I started writing this before Mocha posted.

 

[Tesh]

Princess Sparklespam

Hi guys. I main Ganondorf.

 

[ぱみゅ]

So.... where can I apply for Smash Lab? It sounds interesting and I have lack of fear on hack my wii, willing for something to do and way too much free time.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

If you apply, I will too. =P

 

[Alacion]

You know there's a problem when the Sheik boards are more active than the Zelda boards

 

[#HBC | Scary]

That's pretty bad.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I know right?

It completely defies the logic that we expect the character at the end of the tier list to get way more activity than those at the higher end.

But sarcasm aside, this place sees more activity than a few melee boards. The mario boards last update was on feb. 6th lol

 

[Fuujin]

Went to a tournament of 8 ppl (lol)
I recorded a match with MJG and Jowii and some random Pit.

Saffy says she'll upload them but then again Peace said he'd upload my MM with Trevonte like 4 weeks ago and that never happened so...

oh and in at least one of the matches I did the sourspotted D air to D tilt to upsmash or something like that

Edit:
Question, did Ven bea RBs Olimar?
Or did he use another character?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I entered a tournament with 38 people, placed a disappointing 25th. Lost the first match as Zelda, almost won the second with Dedede (DK main) but my control set up (grab as right shoulder button) screwed the infinite over.

Second set was a diddy, which I lost because Zelda is so lolz, next match I almost 3 stocked him with Wolf but he gayed me at FD and sneakily changed his character to Falco which 3 stocked me (though I SD'd once).

Overall a **** singles experience since both of them are higher than I am on the PR, yet there was this guy who is not as good as I am, but he came 17th due to beating 3 beginners. :/

BUT

CAME 4TH IN DOUBLES HAHAHAHA

HIGHEST PLACING QLD'ers

Beat some of the best players in Australia with a rob/Zelda team.

Fuujin, will you ever update the doubles part of your tournament thread?

 

[Alacion]

Woot really nice work Aero!! I honestly think ROB and G&W work soooo incredibly well with Zelda and I'd partner somebody that uses those characters in an instant.

Is there a results thread? :o Would love to see Australia's character diversity!