Zero Suit Samus Video Discussion

[Teh-Shlurpie]

Forgive me for i am but an ex brawl scrub, but what kind of pviots are you doing that require attacking 0.o?

some jump cancel something or rather?

 

[ph00tbag]

In Melee, you could cancel any point in the initial dash with a standing turn-around in the opposite direction. Out of this animation, you can perform any grounded action in the game. This was the basis for dash dancing, as you can obviously dash out of a standing turn-around. But it was also useful for instantly turning around and attacking. This is the idea behind performing a pivot.

 

[Vixen]

Oro vs fast fallers if you get a dsmash please dont uair them. you have enough time to grab which leads to even stronger followups.

 

[ArcImpulse]

Nice work last weekend Oro! Really enjoyed watching the matches.


Here is the playlist link in case people want to check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcMdMmtHkPpRM1ZC4uNPoRyPs6vrHiEXY

 

[Axrz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7ZeAJjhqA0&hd=1

My set vs Solharath (Sonic). Critique appreciated!

 

[Axrz]

Bump. Could I get critique on these sets?

vs Neil (Lucario) http://www.twitch.tv/rog48439/c/4021130
vs LOE1 (Wario http://www.twitch.tv/rog48439/c/4021146

 

[BleachigoZX]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JRV8OzmSNI

Help. (I know I have bad Brawl habits and I'm working towards correcting them g0sh) 2nd time entering an event and I'm hoping to improve over time.

 

[ph00tbag]

So many raw grabs. ;~;

Your neutral game is really stale. You need to do more than move around and occasionally shoot Paralyzers, then grab. Walling with shffl bair is always good, and you can often use nair and fair as really powerful air to airs. Pivot dsmashes are really strong against undercommitments.

Uair isn't much of a KO move now, when your opponent is at KO percents, you're better off using bair or fair.

Dash attack isn't very great for covering missed techs, since it recovers after a successful tech, putting you at a disadvantage. I prefer shffl nair, since if you time it right, you can actually react to the tech option with a utilt or dash attack.

 

[Oro?!]

Really unsafe move choices as well in neutral. Jabs are relatively unsafe just like Brawl, and more used for boxing shield pressure/mixups. Dtilt is crouch cancellable for a really long time.

Your punish game is really weak as well. Fsmash shouldn't be your go to move choice after DSmash unless you are sure it will kill or set up an edgeguard. Uair/Nair is a 50/50 DI mixup and there are certain percents against certain characters that they can lead to pretty much guarnateed extended punishes. Grab is also basically always better off of DSmash as well.

Your movement was the most jarring thing to me though. Work on getting more fluid, as weird as it may be as a transition from Brawl. Wavedashing is definitely essential as is SHFFLing at will.

 

[BleachigoZX]

What are generally strong tools for her neutral game? I always feel like ZSS has to sacrifice so much screen just to throw anything out.

 

[Oro?!]

She does, but she can afford to. Blaster cancels allow you to take as much screen as you generally have to give up, so I consider it a fair trade off between a wide range defense and offense. You can space nair/bair to be safe vs a lot of shield options and/or vs Crouch Cancelling. Laser cancelling DOES allow easier grab attempts as you know, but it is not guaranteed by any means, and you should mix up dsmash and aerial usage in addition to just spacing with more movement with the space that blaster allows you to take. SideB is way less safe on whiff AND hit at lower percents than Brawl, so limited usage or matchup specific usage comes into play. It's really good vs bigger characters like Bowser and DK.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

SideB is way less safe on whiff AND hit at lower percents than Brawl, so limited usage or matchup specific usage comes into play. It's really good vs bigger characters like Bowser and DK.

Do you mean shield hit or... just hit? Side B effectively not being able to be power shielded makes it impossible to punish unless you're against like, Fox or something.

Unless you whiff the move, then it's garbage and you should start crying.

 

[Oro?!]

Just hit. You can CC the move decently well through all hits, and you can also take the first hit if you are grounded and CC-> shield the remaining hits of SideB, meaning you never get the strong hit.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I always forget CC exists in this game.

 

[Oro?!]

CC balances a lot of things, whether intentionally or not.

 

[ph00tbag]

I think it imbalances certain aspects of the game more than it balances others. I have no qualms with a parry mechanic, but the fact that you can do it at lower percentages during other moves is absurd. I'd also rather it be a windowed mechanic rather than a passive and low-tech way of eliminating large amounts of opponent options.

I also don't consider hitting someone who's crouch canceling to be "on hit," but that's because I regard CC as a parry, not as an undefended attack.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

This may just be semantics but it's not a parry. A parry will deflect/block a hit. CC still gets you hit but reduces knockback etc.

 

[ph00tbag]

This may just be semantics but it's not a parry. A parry will deflect/block a hit. CC still gets you hit but reduces knockback etc.

It is semantics. A lot of players seem to like to dissociate crouching knockback reduction from downward ASDI. Funny thing is, no one uses crouching knockback reduction in isolation, but downward ASDI is actually used in isolation. Downward ASDI is more crouch canceling than the knockback reduction.

When both are used at once, they allow instantaneous retaliation for an attack in exchange for a health loss. In just about every workable definition, that is a parry with a cost.

 

[Daftatt]

It is semantics. A lot of players seem to like to dissociate crouching knockback reduction from downward ASDI. Funny thing is, no one uses crouching knockback reduction in isolation, but downward ASDI is actually used in isolation. Downward ASDI is more crouch canceling than the knockback reduction.

When both are used at once, they allow instantaneous retaliation for an attack in exchange for a health loss. In just about every workable definition, that is a parry with a cost.

 

[Oro?!]

Yea, when you can hit your opponent who is CCing and there is no counterplay for your good spacing/move selection then it really shouldn't be considered a parry at all.

 

[ph00tbag]

But it shares very little in common with being hit, by the same token. Getting hit usually means you're at a frame disadvantage. My point is that in terms of frame results, it's much, much closer to a parry. Especially since there are moves in other games that it's not really worthwhile to parry. (Why would you parry Ryu's fireball if you have a character who can forward jump dive kick it on reaction?) Usually, other games balance the risk/reward better than smash, but poor risk/reward balance doesn't make it not a parry.

 

[Vixen]

video dump

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5S1_kL-Vtk vs Neon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrgQ6zF79Ag vs the lamest falco in existence.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx1jpwZtA6U game 2 and 3 are zss. Pay close attention to my shield drops.

 

[Roche_CL]

On Vixens:
It seems you got great knowledge of the falco matchup. You could go for Utilt after SideB connects. I loved your use of UpB oos.
Haha, and awesome shield drops and Fsmash punishes, got you lots of low % kills (which i find hard to do with Zss).

 

[Vixen]

I honestly think MexRay should have won the set. That last SD was supposed to be a reverse bair which would have poked my feel through the plat and gave him superior stage control. I still don't really know what to do about his laser approaches besides the occasional Nair OOS, or Up B OOS

There's no other falco main in my region, either. Axe plays a mean falco but he's like a 2 and a half hour drive north. ;_;

 

[Oro?!]

You can crawl under lasers and kind of play the Marth/Sheik spacing games with WD oos. jump over low lasers, crawl under high lasers etc.

 

[Cancel]

Is zss good in this version project M i havent played this version well, this week i will be though.

 

[Vixen]

Zss is kinda butt in every version. She's easily the least butt in 3.x though

 

[Shokio]

Zss is kinda butt in every version. She's easily the least butt in 3.x though

Am I the only one of feels that Brawl Zero Suit is better than PM Zero Suit? (Minus PM ZSS having an easier time killing). I've felt this way since 2.6 and playing Brawl the other week for the first time in a long time confirmed my suspicions.

I miss her moderately strong Uair that could actually kill off-top, I miss the dash attack combo'ing into Up-Tilt or DSmash, and I especially miss the sex kick spike.
Can someone explain to me why a character who had a meteor/spike got it REMOVED, but characters who DIDN'T got one added? (Sonic, for instance). I honestly think Zero Suit is pretty weak character, though I use her anyway.

 

[Vixen]

I think PM ZSS is a better character.

 

[cannedbread]

I'd say brawl zero is better just because of armor pieces.

 

[Vixen]

The armor pieces make her a great burst character. I prefer PM ZSS for being better overall. I could be wrong, though. That's just the feeling I get.

 

[Oro?!]

I think comparatively to the rest of the best characters in the game, ZSS is better in PM. She is good in both games, but relative to the cast PM feels better from a you can win a tournament solo with this character perspective.

 

[Shokio]

I think comparatively to the rest of the best characters in the game, ZSS is better in PM. She is good in both games, but relative to the cast PM feels better from a you can win a tournament solo with this character perspective.

In that case of course, cause freakin' Metaknight >>>>>>>>>>> Everyone else lol while PM is of course much tighter balance-wise. But I guess I'm alone on this one.

I feel that if they restored her Uair and gave her her spike back then she'd be perfect. Another change I'd love to see is letting her cancel out of DownB with special moves without having wait for the flip animation to be over with, but I could live without that, it's just a cool idea.

 

[Daftatt]

I think comparatively to the rest of the best characters in the game, ZSS is better in PM. She is good in both games, but relative to the cast PM feels better from a you can win a tournament solo with this character perspective.

Damn straight! Was cheering for you in UFGTX, those sets were fantastic! Congrats on 2nd place man, 10k+ watching some true high level ZSS play.

 

[Vixen]

In that case of course, cause freakin' Metaknight >>>>>>>>>>> Everyone else lol while PM is of course much tighter balance-wise. But I guess I'm alone on this one.

I feel that if they restored her Uair and gave her her spike back then she'd be perfect. Another change I'd love to see is letting her cancel out of DownB with special moves without having wait for the flip animation to be over with, but I could live without that, it's just a cool idea.

her uair in pm is great. i don't think it needs to be changed. she needs, more than anything, a way out of shield vs characters like fox/falco

 

[Yeroc]

UpB hits frame 6, so it's technically the 5th fastest grounded OOS option in the game behind GW upB, Bowser upB, Fox's shine, and Falco's shine. It just has a really tiny hitbox.

 

[Charby]

her uair in pm is great. i don't think it needs to be changed. she needs, more than anything, a way out of shield vs characters like fox/falco

Did you try down b oos, could be good it has any invicibility startup frame

 

[Axrz]

Did you try down b oos, could be good it has any invicibility startup frame

They removed the invincibility on down b.

 

[Teh-Shlurpie]

Finally have some games!
(Footage was not saved, apologies)
(just a warning the stream has no music and very quiet commentary)

winners finals
20:42 vs FishEatCorn (pit main)

grand finals
1:11:50 vs Willz (falcon main)

i am looking to step my game up quite hard, so extreme criticism would be extremely helpful ^-^

 

[Dark Sonic]

Some vids of me vs guys at the Smash Academy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otd1Y1Ll5zk Me vs Sartron (local Metaknight/Lucas player)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzVAAK2VrMM Me vs Colbol loser's finals
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l46AjcnK3Iw Me vs Colbol winner's semi's at Smash Academy 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRZQC9rEyek Me vs Wizzrobe Winner's finals at Smash Academy 2 (second match is basically a combo video lol. It also shows off some falling up Bs)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tubWJrYuzpk Me vs Colbol loser's finals at Smash Academy 2

Critiques are welcome.