Q&A Zero Suit Samus- Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread

[CeLL]

Is jab frame 1 like Brawl?

 

[David Viran]

Is jab frame 1 like Brawl?

Yes it is and all the hits connect finally.

 

[Vermillion]

I'm having trouble with short-hoping. When I do it, I can't get it low enough for zair or nair to connect at character height; it's always just a little bit over their head, even with the slightest input on the jump button. Is there a specific way to do it or something ?

 

[Remzi]

I'm having trouble with short-hoping. When I do it, I can't get it low enough for zair or nair to connect at character height; it's always just a little bit over their head, even with the slightest input on the jump button. Is there a specific way to do it or something ?

There is only one short hop height. If you are doing it, you won't get any lower. In order to get aerials/zair to connect lower, you'll have to wait until you are falling from the SH to do the move.

 

[David Viran]

I'm having trouble with short-hoping. When I do it, I can't get it low enough for zair or nair to connect at character height; it's always just a little bit over their head, even with the slightest input on the jump button. Is there a specific way to do it or something ?

Zss's short hops are high and the timing on nair is really awkward I personally use x to short hop instead of up because it's easier to tap it lightly but you just have to practice it.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I'm having trouble with short-hoping. When I do it, I can't get it low enough for zair or nair to connect at character height; it's always just a little bit over their head, even with the slightest input on the jump button. Is there a specific way to do it or something ?

My recommendation: learn to SH with z if you are using a GC controller.
You have your thumb free for the c stick that way.
There are also only two heights on your first hop, full hop and short hop. if you're too high for gAir or nAir you either jump too high or you're using both too early.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Edit: Not a question and double post, what was I thinking

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Can we talk a bit about stages please?
Since I'm still very new to competitive play I don't really know what stage I should pick against certain characters.
I just trust my instincts most of the time here. I noticed that I heavily prefer Battlefield because of the clustered platforms and Halberd because of the low stage ceiling and I try to avoid simple flat stages like FD but that's pretty much all I know.

Edit: **** yeah triple post

Spoiler

s-sorry

 

[BatShark]

I literally just came in here to ask the exact same question.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I need help, I am completely unable to beat any half decent DeDeDe. Just lost like 6 consecutive matches to one. I got really mad too because I got first stock in every single match and my hand hurts for hitting my desk. God this ****ing char makes me angry.

 

[David Viran]

I need help, I am completely unable to beat any half decent DeDeDe. Just lost like 6 consecutive matches to one. I got really mad too because I got first stock in every single match and my hand hurts for hitting my desk. God this ****ing char makes me angry.

What was the d3 doing. Playing more aggressive is good for this MU.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

What was the d3 doing. Playing more aggressive is good for this MU.

He pretty much spammed gordos and I had a hard time getting to him. He didn't even fly 90% of the time like the last DeDeDe that beat me up. I think the gordos are the major problem here. He needs to hit me hard like 2 times and I'm done for, aka 2 gordo followups and I'm ****ed.
Is there a way to consistently reflect the gordos aside from our nSpecial?
I can upload a video tomorrow.

 

[David Viran]

He pretty much spammed gordos and I had a hard time getting to him. He didn't even fly 90% of the time like the last DeDeDe that beat me up. I think the gordos are the major problem here. He needs to hit me hard like 2 times and I'm done for, aka 2 gordo followups and I'm ****ed.
Is there a way to consistently reflect the gordos aside from our nSpecial?
I can upload a video tomorrow.

Almost any move besides jab reflects gordos and Zair is good against him. Gordos should not be much of a problem.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Almost any move besides jab reflects gordos and Zair is good against him. Gordos should not be much of a problem.

I tried it a few times with fAir and fTilt and both didn't wanna work.

 

[David Viran]

I tried it a few times with fAir and fTilt and both didn't wanna work.

That was your timing. You've got to practice it then. Was it online?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

That was your timing. You've got to practice it then. Was it online?

Yeah but there wasn't much lag so the fault is probably between my chair and my tv.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

He pretty much spammed gordos and I had a hard time getting to him. He didn't even fly 90% of the time like the last DeDeDe that beat me up. I think the gordos are the major problem here. He needs to hit me hard like 2 times and I'm done for, aka 2 gordo followups and I'm ****ed.
Is there a way to consistently reflect the gordos aside from our nSpecial?
I can upload a video tomorrow.

Zair is great for reflecting gordos because it is quick and has a long range, if he does the tilt down for the high bounce then you need to time it better but still isnt too difficult.

I have a question: Why does ZSS's down-b kick sometimes spike and other times hit them diagonally away?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Zair is great for reflecting gordos because it is quick and has a long range, if he does the tilt down for the high bounce then you need to time it better but still isnt too difficult.

I have a question: Why does ZSS's down-b kick sometimes spike and other times hit them diagonally away?

It spikes if you hit your opponent with the most outer part of your kick hitbox.
You can test and do this easily once you know how. To spike, do the kick slightly before you are in hit range of your enemy. To do the normal hit, activate the kick while you're already "inside" of your enimy. The timing isn't very strict since the kick hitbox lasts pretty long.

 

[Retro X]

I've noticed that sometimes when I jump and fire a small shot of the paralyzer while landing it doesn't make any noise and there is considerably less lag for the move. How can I time this to always shoot the paralyzer like this?

 

[extremechiton]

I've noticed that sometimes when I jump and fire a small shot of the paralyzer while landing it doesn't make any noise and there is considerably less lag for the move. How can I time this to always shoot the paralyzer like this?

You have to start the shot at a certain height, theres a little less lag.
You can practice short hopping and pressing b at certain points in the jump till you get the silent paralzer.

 

[pichuthedk]

So 2 questions for you guys.
when you downsmash people at around 100+ % which way do they usually di?
I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the thing i postes about in the early 3Ds release regarding downsmash-> fox trot through them -> boost kicking right behind them is just a death sentence For like all players except super top level players...., I bring it up because I land this sequence ALOt especially in some bracket matches (most of the time it finishes them ;D).

Next which release brings oppenents closer to you when you grab them pummel release or just stopping to let them mash out?
I like to try jab to boost kick a lot.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

So 2 questions for you guys.
when you downsmash people at around 100+ % which way do they usually di?
I'm becoming increasingly convinced that the thing i postes about in the early 3Ds release regarding downsmash-> fox trot through them -> boost kicking right behind them is just a death sentence For like all players except super top level players...., I bring it up because I land this sequence ALOt especially in some bracket matches (most of the time it finishes them ;D).

Next which release brings oppenents closer to you when you grab them pummel release or just stopping to let them mash out?
I like to try jab to boost kick a lot.

Most people DI into me and try to fall out. How do you even time the foxtrot > uSpecial? isn't the timing different for every %?

 

[pichuthedk]

Not really tbh I generally land the higher launch hit box and no matter the character so long as they are at their "execute" range they fly into it.

*sigh* why the hell do I have an elgato and not a wii u the zss lab database would be consistently updated if I had one zzz...

Anyways back to what I was saying It literally goes like this.


1.downsmash confirmed on say peach at like 115%( I did this to a guy in bracket at that 124 man tourney I placed 7th at)


This next step is entirely based on how the targets character reacts to the launch (I. E shiek and fox that fast falling mofos half ass being launched xD)

2. I fox trotted behind her, now the moment I'm behind her I will either just boost kick or jump cancel boost kick. The reason being is even when I hit people with the down smash there are instances where I'm to close to them , I've even had instances where I land the last kick but it sends them the opposite way which isn't ideal unless I'm facing center stage.

3.When you start the boost kick you should more then likely need to lean inwards so your not going forward with it to far. This is subject to change based on the character and what % they are on.

Man I have so many replays where I've landed this.

I literally made something for my character and that just lights this small glimmer of hope and satisfaction., clearly my past 4 years being the unofficial disciple of V115 was not for nothing.

last note I kinda do think Nairos method is cool I've even done it my self but what urKS me is the variable of whether people can get out of those multi hits.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Not really tbh I generally land the higher launch hit box and no matter the character so long as they are at their "execute" range they fly into it.

*sigh* why the hell do I have an elgato and not a wii u the zss lab database would be consistently updated if I had one zzz...

Anyways back to what u was saying It literally goes like this.


1.downsmash confirmed on say peach at like 115%( I did this to a guy in bracket at that 124 man tourney I placed 7th at)


This next step is entirely based on how the targets character reacts to the launch (I. E shiek and fox that fast falling mofos)

2. I fox trotted behind her, now the moment I'm behind her I will either just boost kick or jump cancel boost kick. The reason being is even when I hit people with the down smash there are instances where I'm to close to them , I've even had instances where I land the last kick but it sends them the opposite way which isn't ideal unless I'm facing center stage.

3.When you start the boost kick you should more then likely need to lean inwards so your not going forward with it to far. This is subject to change based on the character and what % they are on.

Man I have so many replays where I've landed this.

I literally made something for my character and that just lights this small glimmer of hope and satisfaction., clearly my past 4 years being the unofficial disciple of V115 was not for nothing.

Sounds like a good combo. can you give me any percent ranges? I'll record the rest for Diddy now and see no reason to not include this.

 

[pichuthedk]

Start with our main threats ideally shiek , Yoshi , diddy , Greninja?

Most of the time I land these combos is never the same because I either have rage or don't or their really high.

trying from 0% try either diddy or Yosh get them to like 110% once they reach the threshold it literally doesn't matter only you miss timing it will cause it to miss.

I will try to post again at some point today working and then a tournament in 7 hours.

The main reason I want us to look into this is because from my experience they try to di away or down or something, they also think "hey look she missed the boost kick let me get down and punish ASAP"

This thinking pattern has them di the kick in ways that make killing them easier.

Well that...and people lose their **** when they see me do it and I get to have a thug life moment where I'm like "I invented that "


#RyokoTrueThug

:trollface:

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Start with our main threats ideally shiek , Yoshi , diddy , Greninja?

Most of the time I land these combos is never the same because I either have rage or don't or their really high.

trying from 0% try either diddy or Yosh get them to like 110% once they reach the threshold it literally doesn't matter only you miss timing it will cause it to miss.

I will try to post again at some point today working and then a tournament in 7 hours.

The main reason I want us to look into this is because from my experience they try to di away or down or something, they also think "hey look she missed the boost kick let me get down and punish ASAP"

This thinking pattern has them di the kick in ways that make killing them easier.

Well that...and people lose their **** when they see me do it and I get to have a thug life moment where I'm like "I invented that "


#RyokoTrueThug

:trollface:

Sounds good to me. Yeah Diddys recording is like 2/3s done.
Sheik is next. I still want to to the stuff with rage and staleness but I already had to realise that I have to cut that part down by a large margin.

 

[pichuthedk]

Yeah I agree it's messed up dude to think we need to learn 52+1 match ups this Iteration.

At least the zss ditto mu is the most punish intensive match And the most fun xD.

Although for the rage part couldn't you just do 50 ,75 &100% s?

 

[RosalinaSGS]

Is it possible to combo into up B from a throw? And what affects how dair works? i.e. Why does it sometimes move straight down, but sometimes she comes down slowly, with her leg outstretched?

 

[BatShark]

Yeah, Up B from Dthrow is *roughly* possible in the 60s on light characters, add around 10% for midweights and then heavies. I wouldn't do it much earlier though or you're going to stale it out of kill range and even around 100% on heavies you'll probably need some rage or bad DI for it to finish straight from Dthrow to Up B.

And if you DAir while you have upwards momentum from being hit, it'll be slower depending on the momentum. You can float in place if you do it at the apex of this momentum, but it's not worth much other than weirding out your opponent.

 

[pichuthedk]

You can sometimes chain up b from down throw (easier if you start up airing first)

It goes straight down when you have full control I.e you double jump and dair you have control. When your launched with like an upsmash using dair causes you to float because your killing the upwards momentum you got from being launched out of hit stun.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Is it possible to combo into up B from a throw? And what affects how dair work? i.e. Why does it sometimes move straight down, but sometimes she comes down slowly, with her leg outstretched?

Yes. If you read the DI right it's possible from 0 to beyond 200%, at least on Diddy. Highest number should be lower on lighter characters of course.


How the hell do I win against a god ROB. Halp. They all murder me.
They just spam laser and gyro and nAir if I try to get in and the hitbox is ridiculous.

 

[Typhy]

What are some strong ways to approach. Usually I use B reverse Paralyzer, Down-B sometimes and SH Nair/SH Aerials. Are there any other strong ways?

 

[Kesno]

Someone talk to me about up air and talk to me about nair's usability as a combo extender in the air. Nair has a lot of ending lag in the air, but if you nair them in this air combo then land with nair that will cancel out the land allowing for better follow ups thanks to the sexy angle that nair sends them. I just want to hear some opinions about its usability and how good of an option it is.

 

[Yumewomiteru]

Someone talk to me about up air and talk to me about nair's usability as a combo extender in the air. Nair has a lot of ending lag in the air, but if you nair them in this air combo then land with nair that will cancel out the land allowing for better follow ups thanks to the sexy angle that nair sends them. I just want to hear some opinions about its usability and how good of an option it is.

Uair comes out quicker than nair so it's better to get a guaranteed followup while they're in hitstun granted that you read their DI. I think nair is better option when they are free to move because it has a longer range and duration. And as you said it's pretty great to use nair to cover your landing. Both nair and uair have good potential to lead to followups depending on the situation.

 

[Dark_Ky]

how do you punish smash-attacks on block on all ranges with ZSS? I cant seem to find a reliable punish option..
it might be because I play online that my oppenents get away with it though lol

 

[Typhy]

how do you punish smash-attacks on block on all ranges with ZSS? I cant seem to find a reliable punish option..
it might be because I play online that my oppenents get away with it though lol

shield grab? it really depends on the character you're fighting. If they're in front you could also Up-B OoS and if they roll behind you you could pivot f-tilt/f-smash

 

[Dr. Tuen]

How viable is it to use utilt to muscle through people's attacks? Aren't her legs invincible? I haven't had a lot of time to expend with real opponents, so I haven't had a chance to try it more. If her entire leg is invincible for a decent amount of time, it could be used to stuff people's short hop aerials, since her legs sweep side-to-side before coming up.

 

[David Viran]

How viable is it to use utilt to muscle through people's attacks? Aren't her legs invincible? I haven't had a lot of time to expend with real opponents, so I haven't had a chance to try it more. If her entire leg is invincible for a decent amount of time, it could be used to stuff people's short hop aerials, since her legs sweep side-to-side before coming up.

Yeah it wins against most ground moves altogether like I know it just beats Robins fsmash. Because her legs are invincible the move never clanks.

Edit: @ pichuthedk are you sure it clanks because I've never had that happen before.

 

[pichuthedk]

How viable is it to use utilt to muscle through people's attacks? Aren't her legs invincible? I haven't had a lot of time to expend with real opponents, so I haven't had a chance to try it more. If her entire leg is invincible for a decent amount of time, it could be used to stuff people's short hop aerials, since her legs sweep side-to-side before coming up.

Well it depends I guess because there are lots of times when you just clang or they shield OR you'll get them with the first hit up up tilt and then it gets canceled/ you trade , Same thing happens with upsmash sometimes I randomly decide to throw it out there and manage to be aware that it canceled quickly enough to follow up or take the easy way out and reset.

IMO we need to get our PP's down and then we will be clipping people left and right with that range and the slide it provides.
Seems like her legs can't be hit causing knockback but it can clang rather easily depending on the circumstances.

So I actually landed something I talked about awhile ago regarding jabbing people out of down smash's stun at low %s,
the String was Down smash -> jab 1 -> down smash -> boost kick I just assume this can probably work on like 80% of low levels, 35% of mids levels and like 0% of high level players.

I got the Idea from our discussion of the viability of jab 1 to boost kicks. Has anyone had any similar endeavors ?

 

[Dr. Tuen]

Well it depends I guess because there are lots of times when you just clang or they shield OR you'll get them with the first hit up up tilt and then it gets canceled/ you trade , Same thing happens with upsmash sometimes I randomly decide to throw it out there and manage to be aware that it canceled quickly enough to follow up or take the easy way out and reset.

IMO we need to get our PP's down and then we will be clipping people left and right with that range and the slide it provides.
Seems like her legs can't be hit causing knockback but it can clang rather easily depending on the circumstances.

So I actually landed something I talked about awhile ago regarding jabbing people out of down smash's stun at low %s,
the String was Down smash -> jab 1 -> down smash -> boost kick I just assume this can probably work on like 80% of low levels, 35% of mids levels and like 0% of high level players.

I got the Idea from our discussion of the viability of jab 1 to boost kicks. Has anyone had any similar endeavors ?

Hum hum~ I'll have to see what I can look into for that. I'm going to attend a small local event this Saturday so I'll see if I can work it in (first event in... years? Size aside, I'm hyped!).

I think our jab has a small crouch cancel window too, so that could assist with landing dsmash after the first jab. I haven't even considered something like that before, so some testing will be required.