Q&A Zero Suit Samus- Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread

[DSkro]

Ike might too, and he's considered better than Bowser post-patch. I'm actually probably going to be dropping Shulk for Ike, mostly because Shulk is very commitment-heavy in all of his moves, while Ike has some things that are actually safe.

Up to you though, of course

Hadn't really thought about Ike...heard he was pretty bad in this version and never really considered him. I think I'll head into the lab with both of them and see which one works out.

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

 

[pichuthedk]

What about saying how your really feeling it as shulk doesn't that work as some sort of mind game xD. Hate hearing shulk say it but when I use shulk love saying it .

 

[DSkro]

What about saying how your really feeling it as shulk doesn't that work as some sort of mind game xD. Hate hearing shulk say it but when I use shulk love saying it .

That's just evil enough to work lol

 

[pichuthedk]

Lol I kr. Anyways actual question I saw a Facebook post Salem made about shield breaking.

Said you need 35% and at least 100kb to break one, my question is this do we have something that meets that criteria? Was kinda wondering if we can just get some safe nairs/Zairs and side b following up with down b kick.

 

[Shadó Chimera / シャドーキメラ]

Lol I kr. Anyways actual question I saw a Facebook post Salem made about shield breaking.

Said you need 35% and at least 100kb to break one, my question is this do we have something that meets that criteria? Was kinda wondering if we can just get some safe nairs/Zairs and side b following up with down b kick.

100kb?

 

[iVoltage]

I've been using Villager as a secondary, mainly to have two different kinds of characters to cover as much as I can. Villager for anti projectile/ Camp and ZSS for the speedier character. I'm not 100% on if I'll be playing zamus, sheik or greninja more often in that slot but its been working well for their bad matchups.

 

[pichuthedk]

100kb?

Guessing that means knock back.

Just kinda wondering if we would be capable of breaking shields, even if it was an infrequent occurance.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Guessing that means knock back.

Just kinda wondering if we would be capable of breaking shields, even if it was an infrequent occurance.

To the frame data thread! Swoooooooooooosh!


It's a bit hard to read though.

 

[pichuthedk]

Hmm I clealy was to tired after work to really go through this I got most of the basics I think I review again when I get a chance.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

What do I do in the neutral? Like, what should my neutral game look like? Also, is utilt invincible at all? I can't shake the feeling I'm beating things I shouldn't with it. Such a great option.

And yeah, I really like Bowser as a secondary. A lot of the problem matchups for ZSS are fragile speedsters, and Bowser is all over that.

 

[KoeBigS8]

What are easy ways to get FAir and BAir to hit in general? I find that really difficult about her, also how do you b reverse input wise. I've never played a technical character like zss so I could use all the tech with her I can find.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

What are easy ways to get FAir and BAir to hit in general? I find that really difficult about her, also how do you b reverse input wise. I've never played a technical character like zss so I could use all the tech with her I can find.

I don't recommend hitting opponents on the ground with fAir. I use it out of dthrow depending on the opponents DI or after a SH nair FF.
bAir is a matter of training, regarding both grounded opponents and opponents in the air.
Practice practice SH out of pivot bAirs. It's a good killing option if you zone properly.

You b reverse by pressing b with a neutral stick position and then hitting the wanted direction right after pressing b.

 

[Duzzzyy]

To meteor with the downB, do you have to manually activate the kick when you are above them, or can you just let it go off automatically when you land on their head? If both, which is the more reliable?

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

To meteor with the downB, do you have to manually activate the kick when you are above them, or can you just let it go off automatically when you land on their head? If both, which is the more reliable?

I'm not sure right now if both are meteors or or spikes but it's a situational thing anyway. I'll refer to them as spike right now until someone corrects me or I do so myself.
If you land on someone with the simple dSpecial it always spikes and you will make the ultra stylish jump afterwards.
It also sends your opponent straight downwards.
The manual Kick on the other hand side only spikes if you hit with the outer hitbox of the kick. It also doesn't send your opponent straight down which helps actually getting them besides the stage instead of them hitting the stage.
We have strings and combos for the extra kick spike.
A simple example is bThrow>dSpecial kickspike (you can DI out of this though) which kills very early if your opponent isn't fast enough. Thing is, if you miss you can easily be gimped since you lost your dSpecial and you will need your second jump and a tether or an uSpecial to recover.
I'd say the extra kick spike provides you a higher risk higher reward option compared to the normal dSpecial spike if you want to gimp someone offstage.
I also feel like I have more control over the extra kick.
This reminds me though that we should look into potential gimp combos with the normal dSpecial spike.
I vaguely remember one I found months ago but I'm not sure if that was a true combo or not.

 

[David Viran]

I'm not sure right now if both are meteors or or spikes but it's a situational thing anyway. I'll refer to them as spike right now until someone corrects me or I do so myself.
If you land on someone with the simple dSpecial it always spikes and you will make the ultra stylish jump afterwards.
It also sends your opponent straight downwards.
The manual Kick on the other hand side only spikes if you hit with the outer hitbox of the kick. It also doesn't send your opponent straight down which helps actually getting them besides the stage instead of them hitting the stage.
We have strings and combos for the extra kick spike.
A simple example is bThrow>dSpecial kickspike (you can DI out of this though) which kills very early if your opponent isn't fast enough. Thing is, if you miss you can easily be gimped since you lost your dSpecial and you will need your second jump and a tether or an uSpecial to recover.
I'd say the extra kick spike provides you a higher risk higher reward option compared to the normal dSpecial spike if you want to gimp someone offstage.
I also feel like I have more control over the extra kick.
This reminds me though that we should look into potential gimp combos with the normal dSpecial spike.
I vaguely remember one I found months ago but I'm not sure if that was a true combo or not.

The spike with no input is a meteor and the spike with a kick is either a super powerful meteor or a spike.

 

[Duzzzyy]

So, I immediately went into training and started to practice the string but a few thing bugged me, when I did pivot grabs I would occasionally throw out a pivot ftilt instead, and I was hitting the Z buttons 100%, what's up with that? Is it intended behavior, and if so, how can I avoid it or replicate it?

Also no input only killed at medium-high damages for me, while the kick often launched the dummy into an arc back onto the stage or into the sides for a KO, not spiking them down into their doom. Is that just me misunderstanding in thinking a spike is supposed to, well, launch them downwards like a spike into a coffin?

 

[David Viran]

So, I immediately went into training and started to practice the string but a few thing bugged me, when I did pivot grabs I would occasionally throw out a pivot ftilt instead, and I was hitting the Z buttons 100%, what's up with that? Is it intended behavior, and if so, how can I avoid it or replicate it?

Also no input only killed at medium-high damages for me, while the kick often launched the dummy into an arc back onto the stage or into the sides for a KO, not spiking them down into their doom. Is that just me misunderstanding in thinking a spike is supposed to, well, launch them downwards like a spike into a coffin?

The spike off the kick is, I think, based on the angle you are when you hit your oppenent. The pivot grab thing does a ftilit if you input the grab late into the skid animation.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

So, I immediately went into training and started to practice the string but a few thing bugged me, when I did pivot grabs I would occasionally throw out a pivot ftilt instead, and I was hitting the Z buttons 100%, what's up with that? Is it intended behavior, and if so, how can I avoid it or replicate it?

Also no input only killed at medium-high damages for me, while the kick often launched the dummy into an arc back onto the stage or into the sides for a KO, not spiking them down into their doom. Is that just me misunderstanding in thinking a spike is supposed to, well, launch them downwards like a spike into a coffin?

As I said, the kick only spikes if you hit with the most outer hitbox.
Try to activate the kick slightly before you are even in hit range.

 

[DSkro]

I second the neutral game question.

Only stuff I can see is spaced nair/bair, neutral-B and occasionally zair. Side-b is terrible all around (customs plz), zair is difficult to use (but decent on hit), neutral-B won't work on someone paying attention and even well-spaced aerials are rough on anything smaller than a Fox.

It seems like she has few options against someone playing pure camp beyond hard reads and mistakes on the campers part.

 

[David Viran]

I second the neutral game question.

Only stuff I can see is spaced nair/bair, neutral-B and occasionally zair. Side-b is terrible all around (customs plz), zair is difficult to use (but decent on hit), neutral-B won't work on someone paying attention and even well-spaced aerials are rough on anything smaller than a Fox.

It seems like she has few options against someone playing pure camp beyond hard reads and mistakes on the campers part.

Oh boy the neutral well yes of course you have Zair, Bair, nair, ftilt, dtilt, dsmash, neutral b, and actually uair to keep you safe when hitting shield spaced of course. You could say side special to but it is more situational. Yeah aerial to ground on smaller opponents is harder but not impossible so I would definitely practice that. If they decide that they want to stay in shield the whole time you could pressure with nair and paralyzer and maybe Zair if they decide to jump. You could then work in unpredictable grabs in there just to mix it up. I would also give them the occasional dsmash shield poke.

What else you could do is do empty short hops to bait there shield but not hitting it which makes shielding more of a commitment that you could take advantage of. Another good mixup is to run through them and mix it up and pivot grab, pivot tilt, or just keep running. If you try to read a spot dodge then you could go for that read and wait it out for a punish.

 

[DSkro]

I'm thinking more mid-range neutral I guess. If I can stay in tilt range there are options but the players that roll away at the first sign of aggression are the biggest problem (maybe this is just too much FG talking).

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Yeah, what he said. I have a lot of problems with people spamming rolls, because anything with decent range has a fair bit of commitment on it - grab, sideB, fsmash, they seem to even be able to punish my jabs. :/ And I can falling nair that all day, it just ain't hitting them.

Also, question - how do the ledge mechanics work? If you ledge trump you get a free bair? How do the inputs work? I'm always too high and too slow to land it.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Yeah, what he said. I have a lot of problems with people spamming rolls, because anything with decent range has a fair bit of commitment on it - grab, sideB, fsmash, they seem to even be able to punish my jabs. :/ And I can falling nair that all day, it just ain't hitting them.

Also, question - how do the ledge mechanics work? If you ledge trump you get a free bair? How do the inputs work? I'm always too high and too slow to land it.

Grab is a great roll punish if they roll away. Dash attack is a low risk low reward alternative to that.
Rolling into ZSSamus at the wrong time gives us a free dSmash.

To punish with bAir you have do drop from the ledge and immediately jump and bAir after dropping.
You should be slightly above stage height while doing so.

 

[David Viran]

I'm thinking more mid-range neutral I guess. If I can stay in tilt range there are options but the players that roll away at the first sign of aggression are the biggest problem (maybe this is just too much FG talking).

If they roll away let them they are giving you stage control. Utilt is a good punish to roll spammers because it hits on both sides.

 

[Narth]

Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but what are good uses of the side special / good combos to use with it?

 

[pichuthedk]

Any stun will chain with side b, it's useful VS characters with charge moves (SHiek, Robin etc.)

My favorite use is when you have someone either stunned or poorly spaced near the edge of the stage, you can totally stage spike them with side b sending them diagonally down.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but what are good uses of the side special / good combos to use with it?

Our side special is really bad. The only instance I could imagine it being useful would be to get some space if my opponent is constantly pressuring me.

@ pichuthedk Are you sure you're not thinking of down Special here?

 

[DSkro]

Any stun will chain with side b, it's useful VS characters with charge moves (SHiek, Robin etc.)

My favorite use is when you have someone either stunned or poorly spaced near the edge of the stage, you can totally stage spike them with side b sending them diagonally down.

???

Doesn't standard side-B send up and away? How the hell are you getting a stage spike out of it?

 

[David Viran]

???

Doesn't standard side-B send up and away? How the hell are you getting a stage spike out of it?

If you hit with the sour spot it sends oppenents down and away.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

If you hit with the sour spot it sends oppenents down and away.

How have I never noticed that. Is there any video footage of it practically being used in that way?

 

[David Viran]

How have I never noticed that. Is there any video footage of it practically being used in that way?

The sour spot usually connects into the sweetspot but if you hit it right then only the sour spot connects sending the oppenent in a terrible angle for recovery. I don't really have footage but you can try it by getting right infront of the oppenent and using side special and I mean really close.

 

[DSkro]

The sour spot usually connects into the sweetspot but if you hit it right then only the sour spot connects sending the oppenent in a terrible angle for recovery. I don't really have footage but you can try it by getting right infront of the oppenent and using side special and I mean really close.

Hah...how bad does a move have to be for the SOURSPOT to be the most useful part...

So when do we get to use custom moves??? /s

 

[pichuthedk]

I still prefer normal side b as opposed to pm one... unless we can use it to set up free boost kicks.

Plasma dash is possibly a replacement for killing our momentum after being launched instead of flip jump I suppose.

 

[Kamo.]

What's the best way to follow up a down smash at low/mid percents? I'm still caught up in the Brawl habit of following up with short hop aerials which does work for me sometimes, but I feel like I should be doing something else.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

What's the best way to follow up a down smash at low/mid percents? I'm still caught up in the Brawl habit of following up with short hop aerials which does work for me sometimes, but I feel like I should be doing something else.

Probably SH nair FF into stuff like dash>uSpecial, dSpecial or aerials depending on percent. If you are at the right percents for uAir into uSpecial chains you should dThrow after dSmash.

 

[Kamo.]

So I think I've realized that side special is not a reliable zoning/spacing tool anymore (Correct me if I'm wrong, maybe I'm missing something about the move) and it's creating a real problem for me. I'm not sure what I should be doing to zone people out and control space. My guess is just a mixture of nair and neutral b (Zair too I guess), but I don't know, I'm feeling pretty lost right now with side b out of the equation.

@ Tobi_Whatever Answers appreciated on dsmash follow ups.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

So I think I've realized that side special is not a reliable zoning/spacing tool anymore (Correct me if I'm wrong, maybe I'm missing something about the move) and it's creating a real problem for me. I'm not sure what I should be doing to zone people out and control space. My guess is just a mixture of nair and neutral b (Zair too I guess), but I don't know, I'm feeling pretty lost right now with side b out of the equation.

@ Tobi_Whatever Answers appreciated on dsmash follow ups.

try to poke a lot with zAir. nAir is more of a retreating/walling/punish option. I'm not a too big fan of nSpecial spam because it's so predictable but it's a good way to force approaches.

sSpecial is rather bad. I only use it to get people off of and away from me if they constantly hug me and I'm too stupid to properly deal with it and need some breathing space. I also use it to tether recover instead of zAir.

 

[Kamo.]

sSpecial is rather bad. I only use it to get people off of and away from me if they constantly hug me and I'm too stupid to properly deal with it and need some breathing space.

Do you feel like that works out for you? I ask because I think I've been using it in a similar way. Maybe zoning out was the wrong choice of words and I'm instead trying to use side b as a wall to keep an approaching/aggressive opponent out of my face or just at a certain distance, but if they shield it I get punished no matter how well it's spaced. I think my main problem is the move just isn't safe on block anymore.

I'll definitely experiment more with zair though, right now I'm having problems using it in general, but I think that's just a matter of getting used to it. Something tells me I should also be trying to play a little more aggressively, I feel like Zero Suit's defensive strategies got nerfed somewhat or at least changed, but I think that's true with a lot of the veteran characters.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Do you feel like that works out for you? I ask because I think I've been using it in a similar way. Maybe zoning out was the wrong choice of words and I'm instead trying to use side b as a wall to keep an approaching/aggressive opponent out of my face or just at a certain distance, but if they shield it I get punished no matter how well it's spaced. I think my main problem is the move just isn't safe on block anymore.

I'll definitely experiment more with zair though, right now I'm having problems using it in general, but I think that's just a matter of getting used to it. Something tells me I should also be trying to play a little more aggressively, I feel like Zero Suit's defensive strategies got nerfed somewhat or at least changed, but I think that's true with a lot of the veteran characters.

Nah don't go too aggressive, that doesn't work out for her. Or rather it works really good if it works but you will get destroyed if you opponent knows what he is doing. Don't go fully defence either, that doesn't work for any character.
Thing is you need to keep your space as ZSSamus. Most other rushdown characters destroy us up close.
A good example is vs Falcon. It's a game of constant distance holding and poking and waiting to get some punishes in.
And you don't want to use sSpecial as walling option. it's simply too slow. If you ever use it then you want to push someone away, not to keep someone away.

 

[Tiersie]

So I've been seeing a lot of videos where zss solidly goes for uair -> upB strings in midair to finish off opponents early. When I try to connect this string however, my opponents mostly fall out before the upB kick hits them, leaving me open to be punished and them in a terrible state of not-deadness. Is there a way to consistently hit this aerial upB, especially on small characters?