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Q&A Zero Suit Samus- Quick Question, Quick Answer Thread

Tobi_Whatever

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So I've been seeing a lot of videos where zss solidly goes for uair -> upB strings in midair to finish off opponents early. When I try to connect this string however, my opponents mostly fall out before the upB kick hits them, leaving me open to be punished and them in a terrible state of not-deadness. Is there a way to consistently hit this aerial upB, especially on small characters?
Practice. You can try these on ZSS in training:

43% - 51% falling uAir > FJ uAir > DJ uAir > uSpecial
39% - 43% dThrow > FJ uAir > DJ uAir > uSpecial
39% - 47% dThrow > IDJ uAir > uSpecial

I tested them, all of them are true combos and work in the specified % range.
The percents of course change depending on your opponents character but I suggest you try to get it consistently on a normal height character first. I feel like uAir > uSpecial is all about remembering percents and getting a feeling for the correct height.
 

Kesno

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I was messing around with ZS Samus's zair in training mode and I noticed that the zair does 3 damage, but there are times where the zair does 6 damage and puts the other person into tumble on contact. I want to know if this is a random effect or if there is a way to influence it to happen more often.
 

Tobi_Whatever

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I was messing around with ZS Samus's zair in training mode and I noticed that the zair does 3 damage, but there are times where the zair does 6 damage and puts the other person into tumble on contact. I want to know if this is a random effect or if there is a way to influence it to happen more often.
I'm pretty sure it has a sour spot and a sweet spot but I'd be interested in an exact explanation as well.
 

pichuthedk

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Yes max range or possibly when they are inside the hit box as its retracting (ie someoNE walks onto it as it starts retrac ting.

Anyone see what a close up one does although I think i remember getting a lucky reset on someone .
 

Tobi_Whatever

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What's the best option for punish roll spammers with ZSS?
Grab, dSmash, dash attack, uTilt, sTilt I'd say depending on rolling direction and whatever you want to get out of it. ZSSamust has a rather easy time punishing rolls.
 

pichuthedk

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Lol well up tilt comes out on frame 3 , the f tilts /down tilt come out on frame 5 IIRC damn I clearly see another reason I probably won't be at apex this year been slacking off on my zss homework T.T.
 

Kamo.

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Any thoughts on when dtilt should be used/is a good option? I like using it oos in Brawl, but not sure if I should be doing that in this game because it seems a little slow to me, don't know the frame data on it though so maybe it's just in my head.
 

Kesno

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Any thoughts on when dtilt should be used/is a good option? I like using it oos in Brawl, but not sure if I should be doing that in this game because it seems a little slow to me, don't know the frame data on it though so maybe it's just in my head.
I've been having problem hitting shorter characters ever since Brawl, so I suggest using dtilt to hit those short characters if you are having the same problems. The thing is that Kirby can duck under a lot of the things that ZS Samus can do like jab and grab. To punish the duck I usually dtilt to show them that it doesn't work and condition them to stop or at least lessen its appearance on the field. I also like using dtilt for its range as put before (and I didn't know) it comes out on frame 5 so it's a fast option but the ending lag isn't fun if you miss. The angle isn't too good for follow ups but I like to feel that it helps to set up for things for you. Like dtilt at like 50-60% and they go sizablely height in the air which doesn't guaranteed an up air (you could get up tho) so I like to chase them on the ground and just continue to put pressure on them from there. If you dtilt them at lower %'s you could get a Dsmash since they don't go very far from where you hit them and they'll probably air dodge to the ground in fear of a follow up and this is what you want, so that could be a follow up as well. It's basically a tool to use as you wish with a variety of option openers that you can use to your advantage or to create an advantage in many different situations depending on where you are and how much pressure you can put on your opponent.
 

Kamo.

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I've been having problem hitting shorter characters ever since Brawl, so I suggest using dtilt to hit those short characters if you are having the same problems. The thing is that Kirby can duck under a lot of the things that ZS Samus can do like jab and grab. To punish the duck I usually dtilt to show them that it doesn't work and condition them to stop or at least lessen its appearance on the field. I also like using dtilt for its range as put before (and I didn't know) it comes out on frame 5 so it's a fast option but the ending lag isn't fun if you miss. The angle isn't too good for follow ups but I like to feel that it helps to set up for things for you. Like dtilt at like 50-60% and they go sizablely height in the air which doesn't guaranteed an up air (you could get up tho) so I like to chase them on the ground and just continue to put pressure on them from there. If you dtilt them at lower %'s you could get a Dsmash since they don't go very far from where you hit them and they'll probably air dodge to the ground in fear of a follow up and this is what you want, so that could be a follow up as well. It's basically a tool to use as you wish with a variety of option openers that you can use to your advantage or to create an advantage in many different situations depending on where you are and how much pressure you can put on your opponent.
Appreciate the feedback, this is actually very similar to what I had in mind especially dtilting them at low percents then punishing the air dodge with down smash. Only concern is I feel like that wouldn't work as much as it would in say Brawl because air dodge into the ground has so much landing lag in this game that people just wouldn't do it after the dtilt, I still agree it's a good use for the move though. And yeah, frame 5 sounds pretty quick, I'm sure it's just the cooldown giving me the impression that it's a slow move.
 

pichuthedk

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So I was wondering viability of someone waiting to just di your follow up from down smash because I thought of how funny it would be to do the following at low% s.

Down smash -> jab1-> Down smash -> jab1 -> up b since jab stops down smash at low %s wouldn't it be some delicious%?
 

1911

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Hey,
I was curious what button you guys use for short hopping and/or normal jumps because I kind of struggle with short hop (Y) -> up-air (C-stick)
 

Tobi_Whatever

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Hey,
I was curious what button you guys use for short hopping and/or normal jumps because I kind of struggle with short hop (Y) -> up-air (C-stick)
If you use a GC controller I suggest you use z to jump and if you use a pro controller I suggest you use any of the shoulder buttons.
I use the GC variant.
 
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Dark_Ky

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got Wii u and SSB4 recently and after trying out a few chars I decided to main ZSS. this is my first attempt to get competitive at a smash game and I would like to ask you guys a few questions to get a good start with smash and ZSS.


- what kind of char is ZSS? how should she be played?

- is she excecution heavy/not beginnerfriendly (just asking, will play her either way)

- so far she is considered top tier, could you explain why?

- how should I get started with her? movement, zoning, combos, punshiment etc.?

- I did a few online matches with her and I kinda had trouble killing people at high %, which KO setups/combos are used?

- what are her defensive options while beeing pressured?


thx beforehand ^^
 

pichuthedk

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got Wii u and SSB4 recently and after trying out a few chars I decided to main ZSS. this is my first attempt to get competitive at a smash game and I would like to ask you guys a few questions to get a good start with smash and ZSS.


- what kind of char is ZSS? how should she be played?

shes the type of character that loves forcing you to do really dumb stuff when she is pressuring you in varies ways be it on the ground , when your helpless in the air and even when your trying to recover. However due to this her neutral game or rather lack there of is horrendous and requires you to have good spacing and understand what you can and can not commit to, AKA DON'T SPAM YOLO UP B FOR EZ KILLS.

- is she excecution heavy/not beginnerfriendly (just asking, will play her either way)

She definitely is not beginner friendly in terms of important things like her recovery and edge guarding Because newer players are unfamiliar with how to utilize or fight against her paralyzer shot (from both sides of the spectrum) the zss will get away with things she normally shouldn't.

- so far she is considered top tier, could you explain why?
She has a lot of auto cancels ,great recovery ,a ZAIR ,Up b kills leave the most salt, relatively fast move speed , down throw "auto combos for days" the list is decent anyways.

- how should I get started with her? movement, zoning, combos, punshiment etc.?
For movement you should literally just practice moving around and try not to rely on rolls zss punishes rolls, She doesn't get punished for rolling (with things like downsmash , grabs and hell even up b).

In terms of zoning you have things like side b, Zair , paralyzer ,and down smash (the titlts are nice to)
Imo what I thought about doing to practice her moves for the 3ds version when it came out was to do the stadium multiman melee and just go use only one move so I can practice hitting with it from all different angles.

In regards to combos just watch some tournament replays and see some of the higher level players go to town, A few notes for that though is landing a stun opens your enemy up to get followed up no matter the distance between you. (laser or downsmash or charged laser what you land will determine what possibilities you have)
- I did a few online matches with her and I kinda had trouble killing people at high %, which KO setups/combos are used?

Any Stun you land should guarantee you a heavy follow up
Charged lasers will 95% of the time have your opponent a distance away from you , Because of this you can do things like
Down b Over and kick them for the kill , Run up and Up B, Run over and F-smash.

Alot of the time when you are comboing someone in the air you can have the opportunity to kill them early if you can figure out where they will try to go to avoid you from continuing the beating, If you can do this or get lucky you can up B them and they will die earlier then if you did it on the ground from how absurdly high up you brought them with your air combo.

- what are her defensive options while beeing pressured?
Jab / Pray they don't have their shield button set.
Despite hating having people up and close to her Zss is a relatively fast character with some tools to get in and out or literally just to smack you once and then run like hell.

Sometimes when your being combo'd in the air by opponents you can down B away from them or even down b towards the ledge to get invincibility and take a slight reprieve before getting back in there.

She can also rely on the great wall of Nair , since her nair hits both in front of her ,behind her, above her and below her there is a lot of interesting safety nets you can set up while you try to force a mistake from your enemy.

thx beforehand ^^
 

Janno

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so, i can do dthrow to uairs, short hop nairs and some spacing with neutral b and bair

whats next?
 

pichuthedk

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My button layout was close to V115s when I saw him somehow not on someone's wii before however slightly different.

Tap/rumble off
X=jump
y=special (this was for doing grounded b reversed up bs for zss in brawl after I saw Salem make that post)

A= attack
z= grab
r= attack
L & b = shield

I don't know about you guys but I felt like there where times when your launched and your like "ok no problem I got this tech when I hit the ground".

Then there are the situations where your getting stage spiked or dealing with super aggressive players I.E Leon,

TL: Dr I needed that "OH ****" reaction tech/power shield button

C-stick oobviously smash for pivot down smashes and the late brawl Daz lock RIP.
T.T

We will never forget you <3.
 
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Dark_Ky

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down-throw, jump~ up-A, up-A, up-B is a true combo right?

I am having a hard time connecting the fist up-A after a down-throw. I either whiff up-A or my opponent hits my with a down-arial-attack or air-dodges it completely...

am I too slow or do I have to input a certain direction to make it a combo? how does the hitbox, % and DI of my opponent influence this combo and her combos in general? is following up the fist up-A with another up-A into up-B always the same timing wise?
 

David Viran

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down-throw, jump~ up-A, up-A, up-B is a true combo right?

I am having a hard time connecting the fist up-A after a down-throw. I either whiff up-A or my opponent hits my with a down-arial-attack or air-dodges it completely...

am I too slow or do I have to input a certain direction to make it a combo? how does the hitbox, % and DI of my opponent influence this combo and her combos in general? is following up the fist up-A with another up-A into up-B always the same timing wise?
Dthrow to uair uair up b is a true combo at certain percents I think from like 40 to 60% depending on character.

The first uair out of dthrow kind of depends on DI. You might be able to cover all DI by sprinting forward first then jump and react to the DI.

DI and percent play a pretty big role on all combos but as long as you the the percents at which they work you should be fine. You have to uair double jump or DJ uair into up b.
 
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Dark_Ky

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how do I alter her jump-arc and recovery off B (paralyser shot) while falling? officer jenny did it a few time at the start of the match where she kinda fall diagonal after a jump.

at 00:15

is a grab after B guaranteed or can it be spot-dodged?
 

Remzi

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Thats a special reversal (or B-Reversal).

Try this:
Full Jump backwards
In the middle of the jump, press B. IMMEDIATELY AFTER pressing B, tap the opposite direction to which zero suit is facing.
 

Estryark

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I can connect dthrow > uair > uair > upB but the last kick of the upB doesn't connect. My opponent is bounced too high for the last kick. Am I doing something wrong with the timing of my uairs or the upb? I tested with 40%-60% I always get the same results...
 

David Viran

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I can connect dthrow > uair > uair > upB but the last kick of the upB doesn't connect. My opponent is bounced too high for the last kick. Am I doing something wrong with the timing of my uairs or the upb? I tested with 40%-60% I always get the same results...
Make sure when you use up b you are level with them when the first hit connects.
What's the difference between a FSmash with fire and one without fire?
The one with fire has more knockback.
 

Estryark

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Make sure when you use up b you are level with them when the first hit connects.
Thanks, I also had to be on specific % against some characters, sometimes it's different. Against ZSS I can do it at 35, Ike works also but only true combos at 40%
 
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Dark_Ky

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aridodge is owning my soul!

no matterwhat combo I attempt airdodge seems like a free out-of jail-card! avoides everything and they can do it multiple times! I try to bait it but it seems that it has so much invincibility that my opponent can fall savely to the ground before I can try to hit them again. What on earth do I have to do?

I need help :/
 

Tobi_Whatever

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aridodge is owning my soul!

no matterwhat combo I attempt airdodge seems like a free out-of jail-card! avoides everything and they can do it multiple times! I try to bait it but it seems that it has so much invincibility that my opponent can fall savely to the ground before I can try to hit them again. What on earth do I have to do?

I need help :/
The first uAir after dThrow always connects if you do it right, even above 200%. Any followups after that uAir are percentage dependant. If you are really talking about combos as in true combos and your enemies are at the right percent, any misses and possible air dodges are your fault. I suggest going into training mode and practice the bread'n'butter combos until they show up as true combo the whole way through.
Start with something simple like dThrow > uAir > uAir > uSpecial on Diddy at 45%. Total damage should be 35%.
 
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David Viran

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aridodge is owning my soul!

no matterwhat combo I attempt airdodge seems like a free out-of jail-card! avoides everything and they can do it multiple times! I try to bait it but it seems that it has so much invincibility that my opponent can fall savely to the ground before I can try to hit them again. What on earth do I have to do?

I need help :/
Force your opponent to air dodge into the ground and punish. You can do this with uair or usmash. And if they are high in the air when they air dodge uair use a nair directly after.
 

pichuthedk

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If you jump and up air them and they air dodge you can always make sure to position yourself so you can dair them before they reach the ground or act.

Question can we ...crap I forgot *sigh*
 

the king of murder

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I tried using the d-throw uair->jump uair-> up-b combo on someone but for some reason when I use the Xbutton to jump for some reason she doesnt go any higher after the first U-air. She just does a normal uair not a jumping one. When I use the joystick(or circle pad on the 3ds) she can jump after the fist uair but its harder to control.

Is the combo dependent on what jump button I use?

Also, is Zair to grab a true combo on some characters? I have managed to pull it off on the Marios but I am not sure.
 
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Tobi_Whatever

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I tried using the d-throw uair->jump uair-> up-b combo on someone but for some reason when I use the Xbutton to jump for some reason she doesnt go any higher after the first U-air. She just does a normal uair not a jumping one. When I use the joystick(or circle pad on the 3ds) she can jump after the fist uair but its harder to control.

Is the combo dependent on what jump button I use?

Also, is Zair to grab a true combo on some characters? I have managed to pull it off on the Marios but I am not sure.
I'm recording uAir strings right now and this is getting on my nerves too. It's my (and your) fault though. The problem is that when you press jump + uAir too early you buffer the uAir but not the jump. That's the whole problem. You need to press jump just a bit later.
 

the king of murder

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I'm recording uAir strings right now and this is getting on my nerves too. It's my (and your) fault though. The problem is that when you press jump + uAir too early you buffer the uAir but not the jump. That's the whole problem. You need to press jump just a bit later.
Oh, thanks, I practiced it on training mode and got it to work. :D

Edit: The timing is kinda strict, though.
 
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