Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[Tesh]

Tesh and I have been debating the extent of Up Smash's usefulness and I remember Dakpo and others saying how it's underrated somehow. So I've been trying to use it more.

I feel like its best use is to harass people on platforms (ex: Battlefield) and as an anti-air for edgeguarding, but sh uair seems to outdo it in other areas. Am I missing something and what do you guys think?

Maybe someone here on the ZSS boards can enlighten me, but I just laugh (or facepalm if its tourney) every time you upsmash someone and get like 1-7 damage out of it. I'm even getting better at punishing you for hitting me with Upsmash.

Aside from hyphen smashing, I don't see why you wouldn't just Up B. It reaches higher, has follow up potential, it starts up faster, ends faster, does twice as much damage.

Isn't it frame 1 if people are standing right next to you?

I'd be interested to know.

 

[NickRiddle]

Maybe someone here on the ZSS boards can enlighten me, but I just laugh (or facepalm if its tourney) every time you upsmash someone and get like 1-7 damage out of it. I'm even getting better at punishing you for hitting me with Upsmash.

Aside from hyphen smashing, I don't see why you wouldn't just Up B. It reaches higher, has follow up potential, it starts up faster, ends faster, does twice as much damage.

Isn't it frame 1 if people are standing right next to you?

I'd be interested to know.

Whip hitboxes tie with other moves. Up smash has a lot of hitboxes.

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah, upB is frame 1. But it'll only hit on frame 1 if the opponent is behind you and pretty much as close to you as they can get, which isn't realistic.

The thing about usmash is that it puts your opponent back in the air again (if you hit with the last hitbox, which should be your goal). That's kinda useful for ZSS XD
It isn't a fantastic move, but it has its uses.

 

[BioDG]

Summary: Tesh is DUMB

Getting that last hitbox in is tricky. But I think I have a better understanding now. Thanks guys.

 

[Tesh]

You usually do like 2 damage when you hit with it. And I can SDI down and hit you before the move is even over. Its not like it actually keeps people in the air unless they are floaty.

Doesn't Up B either bring them to you (then you can tilt them back into the air) or more likely they DI out and you get the a similar effect to up smash?

 

[PEACE7]

I'm so bad against wario as zss please help give me your knowledge of the mu

 

[infiniteV115]

You don't use usmash for damage, you use it for positioning.
And yeah, people can SDI it, but that doesn't mean that they're going to SDI out and avoid the last hit 100% of the time. You don't aim to hit with all of the hits, you aim to hit with the last to pop your opponent up. You know, like Pika's dsmash. Just not as good XD

Peace, remember to air release. I know Wario's hard to grab, so don't run around throwing out grabs and ****. Set up for grabs with dsmash/paralyzer. Air release fair is great. When his damage is too high for both hits of fair to land, use nair.
Uh, I don't have much experience but against the Wario's I HAVE played, I noticed that if you can predict their aerial approaches you can run under and usmash.

 

[Tesh]

Maybe I need a visual aid. I've seen dash attack do work. I've seen dtilt, nair, flipstools.

You said yourself that the aim is to land maybe 1-3 hits and get like 2 damage and pop them up. It just seems to be that dash attack up b and shuair cover the same area with much stronger punishment.

Maybe its just the characters I play, but I don't mind getting hit by Upsmash. I'd like to see some footage of it being used properly I suppose.

 

[NickRiddle]

Maybe I need a visual aid. I've seen dash attack do work. I've seen dtilt, nair, flipstools.

You said yourself that the aim is to land maybe 1-3 hits and get like 2 damage and pop them up. It just seems to be that dash attack up b and shuair cover the same area with much stronger punishment.

Maybe its just the characters I play, but I don't mind getting hit by Upsmash. I'd like to see some footage of it being used properly I suppose.

It's not a commonly used move, so you won't often see it.
I like using it early to bait airdodges from people thinking it's up-b, then they get hit by the last part and it's reset.

 

[infiniteV115]

I wouldn't even call it a good move. usmash, dair and ftilt are like ZSS' 3 worst moves (fsmash would be dead worst but after the discovery of the strength of its sweetspot I wouldn't call it a bad move anymore) but even bad moves have their uses. My point was just that it doesn't make sense to say that upB is a better alternative cause they don't really serve the same purpose.

If more things true comboed into sh rising uair, it would probably be universally better than usmash. But nothing outside of dsmash, nB, AC uair, the spikebox from upB and I think DA at certain percents will true combo into uair.

Edit: Oh, also the downB kick cancel..but that's pretty situational.

 

[NickRiddle]

Dair is an amazing move, and I use it to catch people who air-dodge when I'm not in the mood to d-smash.
All 2 times in my life.

F-tilt combos after dash-attack so I've been using that more... because I can.
Her worst move is probably still f-tilt.
Then... she doesn't have another bad move.

 

[Tesh]

ftilt eh? I like tripping people with it then dsmashing.

What should ZSS grab release Wario into if he is under a platform?

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

SDI lol

No one does that

Thats why i Dair to Rest so much

 

[NickRiddle]

ftilt eh? I like tripping people with it then dsmashing.

What should ZSS grab release Wario into if he is under a platform?

Iirc, you can only get up smash.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Dair is an amazing move, and I use it to catch people who air-dodge when I'm not in the mood to d-smash.
All 2 times in my life.

F-tilt combos after dash-attack so I've been using that more... because I can.
Her worst move is probably still f-tilt.
Then... she doesn't have another bad move.

Word.

Yeah, upB is frame 1. But it'll only hit on frame 1 if the opponent is behind you and pretty much as close to you as they can get, which isn't realistic.

No.

Iirc, you can only get up smash.

upB spike which should be a free other move on a platform.
If he wants to tech you can uAir/bAir and catch is AD

I don't see Tesh's posts because I remember him using black font and I don't like naggas obv

Fighting vs Wario is a *****, just make sure to not shield and challenge moves. A lot.

 

[Tesh]

Iirc, you can only get up smash.

Thats horrible, thats worse than just throwing him.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Zero Suit Samus Questions &...
by Tesh
Today 10:26 AM

 

[NickRiddle]

Thats horrible, thats worse than just throwing him.

Somebody else said up b.

 

[infiniteV115]

You can't get buffered uair?
And which platforms are we talking about?Cause platforms on different stages are at different heights
I imagine that at least on Lylat and BF we can get a buffered uair

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You can't buffer when you're releasing someone, so you can uair, but it's hard.

 

[infiniteV115]

...You can't buffer when you're releasing someone? What?
I swear the only way to uair MK out of air release is to buffer the dash.

 

[PEACE7]

Interesting stuff

 

[Dakpo]

The only thing bad about fighting wario is the waft, It can kill extremely low, which our character is light anyway.

BTW if you guys would just learn all of her out of shield options and have good reaction time, then you can hide in shield all day against his areal approaches. I just dislike his nair because it eats our N special :/

 

[Dakpo]

Maybe someone here on the ZSS boards can enlighten me, but I just laugh (or facepalm if its tourney) every time you upsmash someone and get like 1-7 damage out of it. I'm even getting better at punishing you for hitting me with Upsmash.

Aside from hyphen smashing, I don't see why you wouldn't just Up B. It reaches higher, has follow up potential, it starts up faster, ends faster, does twice as much damage.

Isn't it frame 1 if people are standing right next to you?

I'd be interested to know.

I missed this
K lets discuss why up smash is a really good move.
It shuts down some characters tactics ( a really good example is Game and Watch key spam)
It will also stop sonic's Dair if you dont think you will be able to punish it when he lands.
Up B has no where near the horizontal range as it does. It helps in really interesting situations. But the absolute best thing about it is Up-smash out of shield.
It beats out Up air out of shield sometimes because it will lift characters off the ground (such as a diddy trying to fair into your shield) Making it one of her most proficient punishes. It comes out reasonably quick and launches them into the air and gives you more time to punish than if you did with up tilt.
I do realize if you miss, your kinda boned. Same can be said for Up tilt and grab though.
Try not to randomly use it out of context though. It has very specific match up uses that can condition opponents play styles.

 

[PEACE7]

Dope stuff dakpo, I need to train her oos options gonna **** warios soon

 

[Tesh]

Iono, as wario, it really doesn't bother me when I get upsmashed by ZSS. Half the time Bio hits me with upsmash I hit him back for alot more.

Are you saying upsmash will beat things that up b won't? Even though Up B does more damage?

I guess beating Key is cool, but it seems like such a small reward you could have just used Uair. Its hard for me to imagine a situation where you couldn't use Dash attack or Uair or Up B to get a much better reward and/or more safetly/follow up potential.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Up B has *** priority.

 

[infiniteV115]

It gets beaten by terrible moves like DDD's dair.
usmash on the other hand works better against dair iirc.

 

[PGH Carroll]

Sooooooo I lost to some ice climber in like losers finals of this lame tekko tourney. I'm pretty solid when I'm not grabed and I mash really fast when I do get grabed. But is there anything you can do while your in a chain grab? Because that **** is sooooo cheese.. Ughh

 

[infiniteV115]

Nope, when done properly, ICs' chaingrab is inescapable...unless they trip, but you can't affect that.
Yeah...don't get grabbed.

 

[Dakpo]

Iono, as wario, it really doesn't bother me when I get upsmashed by ZSS. Half the time Bio hits me with upsmash I hit him back for alot more.

Unless you have god DI, then I can't imagine how your punishing Up Smash the way I'm saying to use it.Use it like this

Are you saying upsmash will beat things that up b won't? Even though Up B does more damage?

Absolutely, It has really nice priority. People can just throw out an attack to stop Up B, while Up smash has a lot more hitboxes and will beat out lucarios dair and stuff. Up B has an chance to do more %, but that doesnt mean it always will. It has its own sweet and sour spots

I guess beating Key is cool, but it seems like such a small reward you could have just used Uair.

I want you to see a zss CONSISTENTLY beat out key with Up air. Not only is the spacing extremely hard, but you have to come from an angle, if you can help it, there shouldnt be a reason to choose up air over up smash in that situation. I mean think about how much you put yourself at risk by trying to up air it. Its not always about the high rewards, but guaranteed punishes that are more viable in competitive play.

Its hard for me to imagine a situation where you couldn't use Dash attack or Uair or Up B to get a much better reward and/or more safetly/follow up potential.

Also, note that Up B has very very slim hit boxes, so they have to be directly above you to punish with it, Dash attack is a great option, but can be to slow if your talking about options from your shield, and Up air is a great alternative but can't pick a lot of things off the ground. Of course if someone is in the air I could almost always recommend Up air over it. I just love Up smash as a punishing move.

 

[infiniteV115]

I should start using usmash OoS. It looks like it'd help a lot against Snake.

 

[Tesh]

^???
Is the horizontal range really that good? What could you be punishing with it in that matchup.

 

[Dakpo]

I dunno about snake...If you find anything useful let me know though

It works marth over though

 

[infiniteV115]

Well I really just said that because Ally is an ******* and I can't beat his Snake

Spoiler

except on RC

Outside of him, I don't really face any Snakes often, but I'm pretty sure I have a positive record against any Snake that's not him...then again, none of these other Snakes are notable.
But yeah, it seems like it might work OoS against ftilt1/ftilt2. I would just have to be quick if it was against ftilt1.

 

[NickRiddle]

U-smash would be terrible against those.
If you predict f-tilt1 > f-tilt1, you can d-tilt/grab OOS.
The only problem is they can generally react and f-tilt2 you for it.
You can grab after f-tilt2 though.

Generally... you should be barely out of that range in the first place.
Sadly, my matches vs. MVD weren't recorded IIRC. I played amazingly in LF.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

you can beat key vertically

if youre falling

 

[Dakpo]

its still difficult

 

[DeLux]

Anyone want to point me in the right direction for some good Lucas + ZSS doubles vids?

 

[NickRiddle]

Anyone want to point me in the right direction for some good Lucas + ZSS doubles vids?

I only know of Galeon and I from forever ago.
Team Triple Baka.