Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[Ohsm]

can someone please give me some down b spike setups, after I hit the opponent with a down smash in the air over the ledge?
The normal setup is down smash at the right distance and dann flipjump spike.
I struggle when its not the right distance any tips?
sorry for the bad english

 

[infiniteV115]

Dsmash --> shorthop away --> downB towards them from the right distance.
Dsmash --> run off --> shorthop past them --> downB back towards them, like this

Stand at the ledge and shoot a fully charged paralyzer. If it hits them, jump off and spike (you'll only have enough time if you jump off before it hits them)

Alternatively, watch this video and you'll understand why dsmash-->footstool-->edgehog is usually better than dsmash --> spike. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KojNS1UuaOo

 

[NickRiddle]

Dsmash --> shorthop away --> downB towards them from the right distance.
Dsmash --> run off --> shorthop past them --> downB back towards them, like this


Stand at the ledge and shoot a fully charged paralyzer. If it hits them, jump off and spike (you'll only have enough time if you jump off before it hits them)

Alternatively, watch this video and you'll understand why dsmash-->footstool-->edgehog is usually better than dsmash --> spike. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KojNS1UuaOo

I'm actually going to remake that video with a couple new things I have learned.

 

[infiniteV115]

Oh, goodie.
I did find that a lot of the characters you mentioned as edge-hoggable in the video can only be edgehogged if they get dsmashed from just the perfect amount. And that's hard to do against Marth's upB, lol.

Or maybe I just need to time the fastfall better, I dunno :\

 

[Ohsm]

thanks for the fast answers :]
this footstool thing looks intressting I will test it tomorrow

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Ohsm, it just takes practice.

You'll get to know what percents send your opponents high enough for a spike.

But note that they can DI to an extent.

 

[PGH Carroll]

d smash footstool is the reason i play this char loooooooool

fast fall after you do it to ness and take their up b away.

boner city

 

[Dakpo]

d smash footstool is the reason i play this char loooooooool

fast fall after you do it to ness and take their up b away.

boner city

looks like someone was watching nicks friendly vid

 

[PGH Carroll]

link me? i dont watch vids lol

 

[Dakpo]

link me? i dont watch vids lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr9qrpvNCDI&context=C3d7cfd9ADOEgsToPDskIZXaEW3YQFj_kT393gdAQN

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

End of game 1:

"im done here."

Ends video.

That's what I did.

 

[NickRiddle]

End of game 1:

"im done here."

Ends video.

That's what I did.

But I win the next 3.
Technical errors and being 2 months rusty makes stuff like that happen.

 

[theONEjanitor]

i literally just picked up ZSS like last week. I sort of forgot she was a character lol and I started messing around with her and was like oh snap this ***** is a beast.
anyway a couple of questions.
why exactly do you guy consider ZSS even with Metaknight and why does she have such a large advantage on other floaty characters like Kirby and Jiggs?

Also I've been getting my **** wrecked by Marths most often since I've picked up the character. How do you get around that fracking sword yo.

What's the best option to do after a d-smash at low percents? Ive seen vids of nick riddle using dash attack a lot, are there better options? Maybe even things like d-tilt for follow ups?

Also when following up on d-smash, do you guys just memorize the timing, or can you jump and do an aerial just on reaction?

I also play Pit, so I have a habit of trying things like d-throw -> upair, but this doesn't seem to be very beneficial with ZSS. Am I just doing it wrong? It seems like you want the opponent to be in the air, but I have a hard time following up after d-throw. Should I do different throws with ZSS.

Also because of Pit, I tend to Jab a lot as a GTFO type of move. Should I jab less with ZSS, especially against characters/players that the combo doesn't work on?

 

[infiniteV115]

She's not even with MK, she just does well (relatively) against him. It's a -1, and it's one of our hardest MUs.

Dash attack --> utilt does 18%, fair (both hits) does 17%. So at low percents, do dash attack --> utilt if you can get it out in time (I'm pretty sure you can). Or if you're uncomfortable with it, use fair.
Dsmash x2 --> dash attack --> utilt = 40%, assuming everything is as fresh as possible. Or it might be 39%, not sure.
Obviously, chain dsmashes if you can.

I memorize the timing, I would assume the other ZSSs do as well.

uthrow does the most damage (11%), but it has a ****TON of ending lag and you're lucky to get in any followups. At lower percents your opponent will probably be able to hit you while you're still in the cooldown.

Fthrow does 9%, and is good for followups. Follow up with dash attack, nB and running uair/fair. Or, if they're at high percents and the throw sends them far away, aerial sideB.
Dthrow does 7%, and imo is better for followups than fthrow. Mix up between uair, fair, running usmash and dsmash as followups.
Bthrow does like 5 or 6%, and is only really useful for getting the opponent offstage. If you do, follow up with nB, sideB or run-off upB. Or maybe even spike, though obviously this is dangerous.
I think it true combos into dash attack. If so, obviously dash attack --> utilt.

Only jab characters that the combo works on. It works on Marth (ie he can't powershield jab3 by simply holding the shield button) but he can upB out of it, which obviously makes it a risk to jab him.
Every character can SDI down and shield jab3 (or so I've heard), but nobody ever seems to do it. :\

For those that can powershield jab3 by simply holding the shield button, obviously don't do all 3 hits. Whenever I jab1, I always run away.
Don't jab1 Snake, you'll get ftilted, even if you try to run away.
Same goes for MK, except you get dsmashed.

 

[theONEjanitor]

Thanks a lot for the responses. Moar questions.

I haven't tested it, but it seems like when timed right ZSS can cover all options (besides ledge hop trickery) when getting up from the ledge with d-smash, is this correct?

What move is to best to use for punishment, when you don't have time to d-smash? Like say if you blocked MK's d-smash (again I haven't test, but i'm almost positive you can't punished a shielded MK d-smash with your d-smash). Uptilt? dtilt? Jab?

also what is the best way to momentum cancel

 

[infiniteV115]

Um...I don't think so (this is directed at the statement about covering all ledge options with dsmash)..I mean maybe in theory but in practice it'd probably be hard to space everything. Especially with those +100% getup attacks being so big.

Yeah you can't punish MK's dsmash on shield with dsmash...lol. If you're close enough, punish MK's dsmash with utilt. Otherwise, dtilt/dash attack. Or maybe uair OoS if you can do it.
One thing I learned about ZSS is that if you want to do well with her, you have to accept punishing with weak moves like dtilt and dash attack. Though they're not very strong in and of themselves, they give positional advantages and can shift momentum quite significantly into your favour.

For vertical momentum cancelling, just uair--> fastfall.
For horizontal, uair--> downB toward the stage. If you can live without the downB then don't waste it.
Obviously, fastfall between the uair and downB but make sure the downB comes out right away.

 

[theONEjanitor]

WORD. yeah im learning that you often just have to pop a dtilt in there, but that's fine i guess its not like ZSS has trouble building damage.

I have trouble finding opportunities to land D-Smash, besides really obvious punishes. Any thoughts on this? Like it seems like its hard to punish landings with it except at very low percentages. I watch videos of you guys all the time you land d-smashes all day lol.

 

[FEAR977]

What are some good stages to take kirby too?

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I prefer Halberd against Kirby....

But i prefer halberd against everyone.

 

[infiniteV115]

Halberd, really?
ZSS dies so early to vertical kill moves

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Yes

But everyone dies so easy to uair.

And i can plank on the first transformation :D

 

[infiniteV115]

Right. I'm just so used to staling the **** outta my uair. Though recently I've been trying to stale my bair on Halberd so I can keep uair fresh.

 

[FEAR977]

Halberd, really?
ZSS dies so early to vertical kill moves

So then what stage do you personally prefer to take Kirby to?

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Wait.
What moves does Kirby kill with besides Dsmash and Usmash? Vertically

 

[infiniteV115]

I don't have any Kirby experience so I'd probably just take him to Battlefield (it's my favourite legal stage)
That and FD (we have air release --> uair on Kirby, FD would make getting grabs easier)

But actually Halberd's beginning to sound really good. You could probably like wall him out with bair (I'm assuming our bair is bigger than his?) and then kill with uair, which can be done out of dsmash, air release or just by itself.

Edit: Well, when I was talking about ZSS dying to vertical kill moves early, I didn't mean against Kirby. I mentioned it cause you said you like Halberd against everyone.
I imagine Kirby's are always going to kill with fsmash?

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Jab works on kirby.

Thats what i have to say about that.


Btw new Avi.

It's sexy.

 

[FEAR977]

Wow! I had no idea we had a air release to uair on him. That's really helpful.
And yeah, we out bair Kirby.
Would Brinstar be a good counterpick? I know Kirby does well on that stage but still...

 

[infiniteV115]

This is just speculation, but no I wouldn't go there. I don't think that we lose there, we just probably have less of an advantage there than on other stages.
-His having 6 jumps means that if either of us get ****ed over by the acid, it'll be us, unless we somehow manage to get a dsmash/paralyzer right before the acid (from there you can footstool him into the acid). But that's almost definitely not happening if your opponent is good.
-We can out-ground-game Kirby with jab and dtilt, and the curvy terrain with the tiny walls and acid means that the ground game won't matter as much on this stage.
-Dunno how good Kirby is at sharking, but it's just another option for him.
-The gooey things at the sides and in the middle probably extend the duration of the hitbox on his fsmash, which is probably quite deadly.
-He can probably kill us with uthrow fairly early if he grabs us under the top platform.
-Probably gonna be REALLY hard to grab Kirby here.
-I imagine Kirby's kinda like Wario, G&W and Puff in that they spend most of their time in the air and they usually approach from the air. Usmash becomes more useful in these MUs cause you can run under and usmash if you predict a jump, but on Brinstar you can barely do this cause the gooey clump in the middle can cancel your dashes, and usmashing the gooey things that connect the main stage to the platforms produces a ****ton of hitlag and will leave you very vulnerable.
Again, pretty much all speculation. But I do know it's one of Kirby's best stages, so...yeah.

Oh yeah, if you're having trouble with Kirby, remember that he's the only character that we can't dash attack lock. Apparently his animation when he gets hit by our dash attack causes him to duck, and his hurtbox is below the hitbox of our DA. I imagine DA-->utilt wouldn't work for the same reason, so we'll have to DA-->dtilt/ftilt. Keep that in mind, cause utilt and dash attack are both very unsafe if they miss.

Edit: About air releases, I'm pretty sure we can uair everyone we air release except for Puff. With some characters like Ness and Wario we can even fair if they don't SDI (I think we can hit Wario with ANY of our aerials, lol). Fair might hit Kirby too, not sure.

 

[FEAR977]

I should probably think things through when choosing my counterpick from now on. Everything you mentioned above happens ever time I face a Kirby on Brinstar. Guess it's to FD then. Thanks. I'll try Halberd as well though.



We can't hit fox out of air release

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Um.

Actually, we def air release puff.

lol

 

[PGH Carroll]

its really hard being the best ZSS when you have no one to play this game with..

pittsburgh. melee forever

 

[infiniteV115]

Um.

Actually, we def air release puff.

lol

If we get uair on Puff out of air release then I guess I'm just terrible, cause I could never get it, lol

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

She gets air released straight up and REALLY high, so you have to buffer a DJ, but it works.

 

[infiniteV115]

Ooooh DJ! That makes sense!

Doesn't matter Puff sucks

 

[FEAR977]

Okay so trying to word this question is going to be a pain. How do I wavebounce side-b forward, like in the direction that I'm facing (so say I'm facing right and want to get that wavebounce jump towards the right). Sorry if this is difficult to understand.

 

[NickRiddle]

Okay so trying to word this question is going to be a pain. How do I wavebounce side-b forward, like in the direction that I'm facing (so say I'm facing right and want to get that wavebounce jump towards the right). Sorry if this is difficult to understand.

Jump forward > back > B > forward
Quite quickly, I might add.

 

[Dakpo]

its really hard being the best ZSS when you have no one to play this game with..

pittsburgh. melee forever

salem's wifi zss says otherwise

 

[BioDG]

Tesh and I have been debating the extent of Up Smash's usefulness and I remember Dakpo and others saying how it's underrated somehow. So I've been trying to use it more.

I feel like its best use is to harass people on platforms (ex: Battlefield) and as an anti-air for edgeguarding, but sh uair seems to outdo it in other areas. Am I missing something and what do you guys think?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Out of Shield Usmashes

general juggling tool because a jump automatically has more lag if it misses etc

 

[infiniteV115]

usmash is amazing on Battlefield. At low percents it's also good out of dtilt/utilt.