Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[Sesshomuronay]

I have a question. How do I beat diddy?

 

[Adapt]

Take a look at the matchup thread, and if the data there is not good enough, ask your question there.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164587

 

[ToyzSoldier]

What is her side-b's killing percent fresh?

On a scale of 1 to 10, how hard is it to KO with her?

 

[Adapt]

What is her side-b's killing percent fresh?

not using search function ftl

go here:

In-depth attack stats

It has kill percentages for all hitboxes of all moves, plus a lot of other info

 

[Sesshomuronay]

How do i do the sliding item toss thing?

 

[Adapt]

read up on glide tossing and other ATs here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=187873

(simple answer: do a forward roll and then throw immediately after)

 

[Davidyor]

when using up+b, do i have to pull down as well to spike somebody?

 

[LordMars]

No you don't have to, but it's kind of rare to spike with up+b, easier is down+ b

 

[RoyalBlood]

Why does ZSS rebounds so much on a platform and gets a huge jump >_<??

Does her Side-B hitbox comes out according to the animation? Zelda's dash attacks keep passing through the whip <.< not the tip

Can you jab cancel with ZSS?

 

[FadedImage]

Her side-b hitbox is deceptive, the whip portion is very small, don't aim to push them into the sweetspot, just aim to hit with the sweetspot directly.

Jab cancelling isn't guaranteed, but it's the best way to avoid finishing the jab combo (since it sucks). Most often seen is jab-crouch-dtilt.

I don't understand the first question. She gets a huge jump because she's used to jumping with hundreds of missiles and a varia suit on her back. d:

 

[Pudding]

What to do against People, who hangs up the edge?
Just try to kill them with Special Move up?
I nearly never get them.

 

[smaci92]

What to do against People, who hangs up the edge?
Just try to kill them with Special Move up?
I nearly never get them.

you mean people who edgeguard? well, if their invincibility frames are gone, you can side b them (a lot of times this stagespikes) or you could up b them from underneath (this will pull them down, and you might be able to recover after). If they still have invincibilty frames, there's nothing much you can do offensively...but you could down b>footstool and get back on the stage and resume like you normally play or you could just recover as usual (if you have all your recovery moves left still). I suggest going to snakee's recovery thread here

Guys I have a question also. I've played dk, pika, IC, PT, and fox over the the past month, and I don't roll much with these characters. However, every time I play ZSS, I'm rolling around a lot. Like rolling can be good, but I try to avoid rolling in most circumstances. I don't get why I can play those other characters without rolling as much, but when it comes to ZSS, I roll a lot? any suggestions on why I do this, and what to do about it?

thx

 

[Pudding]

you mean people who edgeguard? well, if their invincibility frames are gone, you can side b them (a lot of times this stagespikes) or you could up b them from underneath (this will pull them down, and you might be able to recover after). If they still have invincibilty frames, there's nothing much you can do offensively...but you could down b>footstool and get back on the stage and resume like you normally play or you could just recover as usual (if you have all your recovery moves left still). I suggest going to snakee's recovery thread here

Guys I have a question also. I've played dk, pika, IC, PT, and fox over the the past month, and I don't roll much with these characters. However, every time I play ZSS, I'm rolling around a lot. Like rolling can be good, but I try to avoid rolling in most circumstances. I don't get why I can play those other characters without rolling as much, but when it comes to ZSS, I roll a lot? any suggestions on why I do this, and what to do about it?

thx

Thanks for answer!
My problem is: I love it to edgeguard. Often, i jump to my enemey, don't hit him (air dodge) and he's hanging on the edge - DEATH - a shourt death with 20-50%. I hate this. I find it lame. Against "pros", I've enough problems, ZSS isn't my main, and when I've 30 % less than my enemy -> stupid edgeguard - > death.
Terrible :/


With your problem, i don't know an answer. I think it's normal, with some charakters you changer your tactic.
When you play actively, you'll change it maybe.

 

[FadedImage]

any suggestions on why I do this, and what to do about it?

I'm guessing it's because characters like ICs, Pit, Fox, DK, and Pika, all have really good shield grabs. Some of them also have other great out-of-shield options, like Fox U-smash or Pika QAC, etc. Since ZSS doesn't have a good shield grab, OR a very good out-of-shield option (pretty much just u-tilt), you might find yourself rolling out of shield pressure. If you are approaching with rolls, then I have no idea why you're doing that. lol.

 

[smaci92]

Thanks for answer!
My problem is: I love it to edgeguard. Often, i jump to my enemey, don't hit him (air dodge) and he's hanging on the edge - DEATH - a shourt death with 20-50%. I hate this. I find it lame. Against "pros", I've enough problems, ZSS isn't my main, and when I've 30 % less than my enemy -> stupid edgeguard - > death.
Terrible :/


With your problem, i don't know an answer. I think it's normal, with some charakters you changer your tactic.
When you play actively, you'll change it maybe.

Edgeguarding is part of the game...You'll just have to face it. People who don't are noobs.

@the second part of your answer: i do play actively lol

I'm guessing it's because characters like ICs, Pit, Fox, DK, and Pika, all have really good shield grabs. Some of them also have other great out-of-shield options, like Fox U-smash or Pika QAC, etc. Since ZSS doesn't have a good shield grab, OR a very good out-of-shield option (pretty much just u-tilt), you might find yourself rolling out of shield pressure. If you are approaching with rolls, then I have no idea why you're doing that. lol.

ya that's why i guess...that's what I hate about zss...HER SHIELD GRAB SUCKS!!!! and no, I'm not approaching with rolls lol...I don't suck THAT much!

 

[shinobooette]

I read somewhere that Zamus can Down-B footstool over projectiles. Is this true? and with what projectiles (Snake's? / Samus'?)

 

[Adapt]

Only physical projectiles: bombs, items, stuff like that.

You can't footstool laser blasts or samus' charge shot because they are energy projectiles

 

[shinobooette]

So that means Snake's nakita missiles and Samus' missiles and homing missiles can be footstooled while airbourne?

 

[ph00tbag]

I read somewhere that Zamus can Down-B footstool over projectiles. Is this true? and with what projectiles (Snake's? / Samus'?)

Yep. Makes for a really baller suit pieces only strat on BTT 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3o_uTGajNk

It's kind of hard to see in this vid, though.

 

[Paff]

I've been aware for a while that ZSS's neutral A combo, against someone who knows what he's doing, can be shielded on the last hit and then punished. It seems that general consensus, then, is to use just the first jab or two, and then switch it into some sort of tilt.

However, I'm a bit confused on this - it looks to me like switching into a tilt is no faster than simply going through with the third jab, which means that it would theoretically have the same problem. Am I just confused, or doing it wrong, or something?

 

[FadedImage]

However, I'm a bit confused on this - it looks to me like switching into a tilt is no faster than simply going through with the third jab, which means that it would theoretically have the same problem. Am I just confused, or doing it wrong, or something?

You're doing it right. The thing is, in general, when someone shields the jab, they punish, like you said. So when you jab once/twice and then their shield comes out, they'll tend to see that the combo is over, and then drop the shield to punish (usually with a grab). If you cancel the jab into a d-tilt, you'll frequently find yourself hitting them out of their punish move. By no means is this flawless, but it's definitely a better alternative than going to the 3rd jab, since the 3rd jab has less combo potential (if it hits) and greater lag (I believe).

 

[Paff]

You're doing it right. The thing is, in general, when someone shields the jab, they punish, like you said. So when you jab once/twice and then their shield comes out, they'll tend to see that the combo is over, and then drop the shield to punish (usually with a grab). If you cancel the jab into a d-tilt, you'll frequently find yourself hitting them out of their punish move. By no means is this flawless, but it's definitely a better alternative than going to the 3rd jab, since the 3rd jab has less combo potential (if it hits) and greater lag (I believe).

(I haven't yet played against anyone who's figured out a good way to punish me for the jab combo, so sorry for the ignorance and continuing questions.)

So their shield will come up between the second and third hit of the jab combo? And then you're saying that they notice their shield coming up and counterattack, usually with a shieldgrab, before the third hit comes out? And that a down-tilt will generally be more successful than the third jab in such a case?

It seems to me like they'd need a ridiculously fast shieldgrab to get it in between the second and third neutral-A hits, so I'm still confused. Also, the advantage, in terms of hitting and not getting hit, of the down-tilt in such a case would be that you're low to the ground, hopefully below their counterattack, yes?

If they wait until after the third jab to counterattack, I can't see the downtilt being too much use, since they'd wait until after the downtilt and even if it does have less lag than the third jab it still has enough to be punishable. Which would suggest that if they really knew what they were doing, they'd wait for your third hit, whether it was the third jab or the downtilt, and you'd get punished either way? And then you could possibly try to out-mindgame them by only doing the first two hits and then stopping, hoping they put their shield up and with you standing next to them ready to do an attack, and hoping they do something to leave themselves vulnerable to another jab combo or a tilt?

I definitely understand how the downtilt has better follow-up options than the third jab, though - I might have to adopt jab-jab-downtilt just for that.

 

[FadedImage]

So their shield will come up between the second and third hit of the jab combo? And then you're saying that they notice their shield coming up and counterattack, usually with a shieldgrab, before the third hit comes out? And that a down-tilt will generally be more successful than the third jab in such a case?

Not before, it's usually directly after the third jab. The thing is, they don't just shield the third jab, they -perfect- shield it. Which means no shield lag, etc. Perfect shielding is a great indicator for when you can punish.


Okay, let's break it down like this. You've got 4 situations. They go like this:

First/Second Jab -> Third Jab connects
In this situation, you got lucky and he didn't shield your third jab, you did 3 damage with it, and in no way can you follow it up.
First/Second Jab -> Third Jab shielded
In this scenario, you got your jab perfect shielded, and will now get ***** by a shieldgrab with most characters, and various out-of-shield options with other chars, (marth's up-b, boozer's dsmash, etc.)
First/Second Jab -> D-Tilt connects
Now, to pull off a d-tilt you cancel the third jab with a crouch. They've been hit twice by your jabs, so they're probably trying to shield or spotdodge. By the time their shield is out, you should be crouched ready to d-tilt. That's usually enough time for them to realize you're done, and that they should do something. This is when you d-tilt to try to hit them out of whatever they choose to do out of their shield. Now you've connected with a solid hit that can be stringed into short hopped aerials.
First/Second Jab -> D-Tilt shielded
Same thing as above, except you mistimed the d-tilt or they kept their shield up and waited for you. If they are in range to shieldgrab, you'll still get hit by that, however, most other out of shield options will be less viable. Anything that involves completely dropping your shield to perform a move is out of the question, since you'll be able to d-tilt/jab right away to punish them dropping their shield, (which leads to basically the same chain of events).

So, with the jabs, you don't have nearly as many options or contingencies as you do with the d-tilt. For instance, I often find myself shield pressuring with jab-jab-d-tilt-jab-d-tilt. The two jabs make them think I'll do a third, the d-tilt baits them into counter, the jab is fast enough to interrupt anything after, and the d-tilt to mix it up some more.

I mean, cancelling to D-tilt is basically the same as holding back the third jab for a second or so, the difference is that d-tilt is just an overall better option (less lag, more damage, better shieldstab potential, more combo potential, etc.)

 

[White Assassin]

i am sure this was asked before but the guides don´t give answer.
so when does Zamus down B kick spike downwards???
is it just in the starting frames, or do i have to hit with a special part of Zamus, maybe her foot, or leg???

thx

 

[Adapt]

The flipjump kick spikes in the starting frames, anywhere on her body.

 

[Paff]

@FadedImage: Ah, it is now clear. Thanks for the info; I'll have to mess around with it for sure now.

 

[smaci92]

@ fadedimage and anyone else who wants to answer: fadedimage, you posted this list of things you can do after jabs:

First/Second Jab -> Third Jab connects
In this situation, you got lucky and he didn't shield your third jab, you did 3 damage with it, and in no way can you follow it up.
First/Second Jab -> Third Jab shielded
In this scenario, you got your jab perfect shielded, and will now get ***** by a shieldgrab with most characters, and various out-of-shield options with other chars, (marth's up-b, boozer's dsmash, etc.)
First/Second Jab -> D-Tilt connects
Now, to pull off a d-tilt you cancel the third jab with a crouch. They've been hit twice by your jabs, so they're probably trying to shield or spotdodge. By the time their shield is out, you should be crouched ready to d-tilt. That's usually enough time for them to realize you're done, and that they should do something. This is when you d-tilt to try to hit them out of whatever they choose to do out of their shield. Now you've connected with a solid hit that can be stringed into short hopped aerials.
First/Second Jab -> D-Tilt shielded
Same thing as above, except you mistimed the d-tilt or they kept their shield up and waited for you. If they are in range to shieldgrab, you'll still get hit by that, however, most other out of shield options will be less viable. Anything that involves completely dropping your shield to perform a move is out of the question, since you'll be able to d-tilt/jab right away to punish them dropping their shield, (which leads to basically the same chain of events).

Question #1
well i was wondering if anyone has found it useful to grab after a 1 or 2 jabs. cause I've recently been thinking of better ways to land grabs without getting punished, and everytime I jab, the opponent shields then I grab them...I've never missed a grab this way. Useful or not?

Question #2
also, another question: all the vids I've watched of good zss's, I never see the zss grab after a down smash. why don't I see more of this? shouldn't grabbing after a dsmash lead to more combos??

I grab after a down smash just to mix it up every now and then. Don't get me wrong, I don't grab after a dsmash every single time I land a dsmash...I utilt, dtilt, any aerial (except dair), and side b at low percents...

It seems my zss game has improved quite a lot after figuring out high percentage ways to land grabs...

so thx anyone who decides to answer some of my questions

 

[James Sparrow]

I've started doing lots of things after a few jabs. Grab is definitely a good one as long as it's not predictable (you will be punished violently). I also like to jab jab dash away dash back dash attack or jab jab up tilt or dtilt.

 

[smaci92]

I've started doing lots of things after a few jabs. Grab is definitely a good one as long as it's not predictable (you will be punished violently). I also like to jab jab dash away dash back dash attack or jab jab up tilt or dtilt.

thanks for the tips james.what do you think about grabbing after a dsmash though?

 

[James Sparrow]

I usually only do that if I get a dsmash on someone at a low percent where the stun wouldn't last long enough to get another dsmash + bair/uair. I guess it's a preference thing. It seems like you place a lot of weight on your grab and throw game. That being the case, I could see you having a good case for grabbing after a dsmash at high percent. If you think that you can capitalize more on a grab than a different move, then that's your best bet.

 

[smaci92]

I usually only do that if I get a dsmash on someone at a low percent where the stun wouldn't last long enough to get another dsmash + bair/uair. I guess it's a preference thing. It seems like you place a lot of weight on your grab and throw game. That being the case, I could see you having a good case for grabbing after a dsmash at high percent. If you think that you can capitalize more on a grab than a different move, then that's your best bet.

yes i do put a lot of weight on my grab game...I thinking of every single way to land a grab without being punished. but at high percents i usually follow with an aerial like you said...thanks again

 

[AL2DAX]

How do you access ZSS in tournament mode?

 

[James Sparrow]

i think you hover over samus and press c stick

 

[Metroid475]

I find myself repeating the same combos over and over again, mainly the 2Xdsmash to Bair combo. Is there any other way to kill your opponent than relying on dsmash? i feel im being to predictable. Any tips?

 

[smaci92]

I find myself repeating the same combos over and over again, mainly the 2Xdsmash to Bair combo. Is there any other way to kill your opponent than relying on dsmash? i feel im being to predictable. Any tips?

mix it up with side b kills and find out what you can follow up with downsmashs. she really only has a few KO moves, and you have to just learn how to use them unpredictably. side b, all the aerials (except dair), down b, up b spike...I guess that's a lot of KO moves! lol

 

[Otter17]

My understanding of “mindgames” is that they are an attempt to manipulate an opponent into using a strategy that you can predict, and circumvent. I think a post discussing them would be helpful.

I realize that a list of mindgames wouldn’t be useful. Even if someone managed to come up with a list of Zero Suit specific mindgames using some encyclopedic knowledge of the human psyche, it would be far too intensive to be worth anything.

However, Zero Suit can stun opponents, and I think that this ability, among other things, makes a mindgame thread worthwhile. Not a list of mindgames, but a discussion of a ways to both test your opponent and to place yourself in a situation to begin a mindgame.

Is there a thread like this on the boards? I can’t find one.

Or if I've gotten this completely wrong please let me know..

 

[smaci92]

i think snakkeee made a mindgame thread...search it up...

 

[ph00tbag]

Mindgames are more dependent on the player, and not the character. Yes, the character will define what the player can do, but within those confines, the patterns you detect and capitalize on will be specific to your opponent.

 

[FadedImage]

Sorry it's taken me a bit to get back to you, but here we go.

Question #1
well i was wondering if anyone has found it useful to grab after a 1 or 2 jabs. cause I've recently been thinking of better ways to land grabs without getting punished, and everytime I jab, the opponent shields then I grab them...I've never missed a grab this way. Useful or not?

The problem I find with using grab after jabs 1 or 2 is that you have about 16 (?) frames until the grab comes out, that's a really long time. If you can consistently land grabs that way, then more power to you. Just remember, if your opponent catches on, you might have to abandon it all together, since it is entirely punishable.

Question #2
also, another question: all the vids I've watched of good zss's, I never see the zss grab after a down smash. why don't I see more of this? shouldn't grabbing after a dsmash lead to more combos??

It depends on the match-up and the percent.

Priority out of down-smash is like this:
1st Goal: KO
2nd Goal: Rack up damage

So, in any situation where you can KO out of the d-smash, do it. If they're over 120% and they're light, do a b-air. If they're hanging off the edge, flipkick spike them. If you have the option to grab for 10% or KO for a stock, of course you should pick KO.

However, if it's impossible to KO you have to think in terms of greatest damage. You want to be able to rack up the most possible damage -guaranteed-. Now, in order to do the most damage, you have to look at what's available for the character you are fighting and what percent they are currently at.
Now of course, if you are against a Squirtle or a Wario, of course you are going to grab, and then you'll grab-release infinite their sorry *** to a KO. If you're against other characters you can release chaingrab, like Metaknight or Lucas, then by all means, chaingrab them to the edge to control the stage.
However, if you are against a character that you don't have guaranteed hits out of grab, then you should think about performing high damage aerials. Double D-smash to F-air does a whopping 39% (in training mode). Double D-smash to Rising U-air to U-air (registers as a guaranteed combo at ~50-90%) does a solid 42% AND keeps them above you for a juggle. These options are better than the Double D-smash to D-throw which only -guarantees- 28% (give or take a few with pummels). I find that if you want to set up an aerial chase situation, U-air out of the D-smash is a much better option, since you're already in the air and have a much better chance of connecting with another aerial -and- you do more damage.

Hope that answers your questions.

 

[smaci92]

@fadedimage: you totally answered my questions! thanks...

I'm glad I asked the 2nd question...cause a lot of the stuff you said, I never really thought of in that great of detail...

thanks again