Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[DeLux]

do you have to dair to platform cancel or is it just easier?

No you don't and it isn't easier

Is SV the only legal stage you can PC on?

Depends on your stage list, but any moving platform you can PC on

How do I make people un-happy with armor peices?

Taking their stocks with them

how do I do that thing where I go under the lip of FD, Up B and then go back to get the ledge?

Pretty much how you described it

How do I Dsmash effectively(at low and high%)

Hit them with it and do the max damage follow up

should I camp mostly or is that MU dependant?

What you should do is winning dependent. As in do what makes you win

Who's her worst MU?

Depends who you ask

can you only boost jump with up B?

As far as I know, plasma wire is the only option with a notable boost for jumping

how can I mind game my opponent to recover better?

Saving your options as best you can (like having better DI to save your DJ), and mixing up the multiple options you do have

uair, bair, or nair for momentum canceling?

I'll let someone else answer this because I'm not 100% certain myself. I'd suspect there wouldn't be a huge frame data difference in getting your fast fall out regardless of aerial though.

What's the deal with people psuedo CGing with Fthrow? should I use this on some chars?

Fthrow leads to follow up soft reads on some characters, and guaranteed buffered dash grab follows ups on others. Guaranteed damage is awesome. Some times I like to walk forward and Dsmash the obvious spot dodge they'll do to try to not get CG'd as a mixup

how do I scrooge on SV?

you go from one side of the stage to the other passing underneath, using your double jump, flip jump, and plasma wire.


batch one complete pls answer what you can take your time~[/quote][/quote]

 

[Maestro_]

New official guide for ZSS? ^

 

[pichuthedk]

do you have to dair to platform cancel or is it just easier?
Is SV the only legal stage you can PC on?
How do I make people un-happy with armor peices?
how do I do that thing where I go under the lip of FD, Up B and then go back to get the ledge?
How do I Dsmash effectively(at low and high%)
should I camp mostly or is that MU dependant?
Who's her worst MU?
can you only boost jump with up B?
how can I mind game my opponent to recover better?
uair, bair, or nair for momentum canceling?
What's the deal with people psuedo CGing with Fthrow? should I use this on some chars?
how do I scrooge on SV?

batch one complete pls answer what you can take your time~

1. You can Also PC on Lylat some stages have transitions that allow you to PC because the platforms are moving Yoshis ,Delphino , Halbert, PS1 Frigate(I assume since they are moving)

2. Do as much damage or take a stock is the best way . You would need to just mix up a **** ton to prevent them from catching on to what your going to do with each piece .
You will need to do things like Z drops ,Instant tossing or using them to trap your opponents.

3. You must Go and boost jump up b from under the stage and hold towards the ledge (or just spam Jump)
so you walk jump back over [Note it is best you save your downb in case they try to troll ledge hog you. And also be very careful you dont Breverse when you up b, it gets me killed all the time cause It messes up my wall jump and I die since I cant.]

4. Good reads are the best way to ever dsmash effectively lol. But I like to do things like d-tilt -> dsmash if they have a habit of air dodging. You should Check out NickRiddles video about down smashing -> footstooling people off stage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KojNS1UuaOo

5. Camping probably really depends on two things the match up and whether you are winning/losing.
I think it's a better idea to just get ahead and take it slow. You can just use camping to think about how you want to react to their approaches.

6. I hear all the time Falco is it but that might depend since I used to be super super bad vs him but after 300+ loses I'm Doing A Lot better now. Even if it is your worse match up Once you face it enough you will more then likely get accustomed to the gimmicks and what you need to do to avoid them.

7. Yes

8 N/A I am super predictable and have difficulty mixing recoveries up so i'll leave this to someone else D:.
Only thing I manage to do is down b footstool to b reverse in different directions once in a while.

9. From what I've heard Nair and Up air auto cancel. You can just bair auto cancel onto ledges though theres a video or 2 about it on youtube

10. Some characters can be chain grabbed to a decent % character and weight dependent like ddd/dk/bowser/snake can be done decently high to maybe like 30.

11. Haven't Really tried but I think you are suppose to just down b to boost upb and re up b near the end.

Oh wow edit i just saw someone else did this before i finished zzz.. my bad

 

[infiniteV115]

You can platform cancel any platform that is moving, assuming it is a platform that you can go through from above. So not on Frigate. Just go here for all the info on platform cancelling; if you have a question, ask in there. There's a list at the bottom of the OP that explains which stages you can PC on, and when.

how do I do that thing where I go under the lip of FD, Up B and then go back to get the ledge?

Pretty much what DeLux said (ie how you described it) but yeah do a jumping upB into the lip, then wall jump back to the ledge by pressing back or jump.

ZSS can't really camp when she doesn't have suitpieces, cause she doesn't have a projectile good enough with which to camp. All she can really do is stay away from the opponent when she has the lead so that the opponent has to approach.

Her worst MU I'd say is Olimar, pretty sure every ZSS agrees on this. If it's not Olimar then it's Meta Knight, but I would definitely say Olimar.

Yes, you can only boost jump with upB.

You don't mind game the opponent to recover, you do it safely by DIing properly, saving your 2nd jump and downB til you have to use them, abusing your tether's length, and throwing out lasers/sideBs/aerials when appropriate.

Momentum cancel with uair.

Only use the pseudo CG when you know it'll work. For what it's worth, ZSS has real fthrow CGs on heavy chars at low %s.

You shouldn't be scrooging on SV very often but the correct way is to fall under the stage, downB, 2nd jump and then upB to the other edge. Not very hard but very situational and risky.

 

[TM_icecream]

Yehhhhhhh
Thanks guys! I'm already second best zss bcuz of your help~

 

[Tesh]

You can also go under the stage by wavebouncing side B as you run off and then just boost jumping to the other ledge

 

[Heero Yuy]

I can agree with Olimar generally being every ZSS player's worst MU but MK, I don't feel like it's awful. I guess I'm just too used to the MU.

I never actually learned how to PC. Heck, I don't even SPD because I don't know what situations to use it. In what scenarios should a PC be used?

 

[infiniteV115]

In a situation where being on the platform puts you in a better position, or as a mixup to your approaches

 

[Ima_Ninja_Snack]

this maybe already asked but how do i get better at short hops should i change it to a different button?

 

[pichuthedk]

The only way to get better at short hops is to get better at being gentle to the controller....zzzz Pretend your hands are making love to it or something.

 

[TM_icecream]

Depends on if you're using tap jump or not^


Just go to training mode and practice it. Be gentle on control stick, or quickly tap the jump button. Over and over and over.
It's really a super easy move, shouldn't take you long to get consistent with it.

 

[pichuthedk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JO7A3-diUs

stream set vs a lucario named astro he is becoming scarier for me every week

 

[Richard 89]

I have a question, and this concerns the uses d-air has, you see, I use her as a secondary and i'd like to know all the uses her d-air has, can anyone tell me?

 

[NickRiddle]

It spikes.
It locks some characters after a d-smash > footstool on the ground at 0%.
It makes you land faster.
Ta-dah~

 

[Richard 89]

has anything been said about it being used as a suicide /kill move?

 

[NickRiddle]

Yes.
It spikes.

 

[Richard 89]

ok looks like my discovery, when I used it against a dk on Yoshi's island was for naught.

thank you.

 

[TM_icecream]

Dair is silly but its a good mixup I think

 

[infiniteV115]

It's a good mixup at best.
And, as for the suicide kill move thing it should only be used in certain situations (let's say you're both on the same stock but you're behind like 100% or more...or you're up a stock), and it's only worth going for if you dsmash the opponent offstage when they don't have their 2nd jump, footstoool them, and then dair their recovery. Like against Diddy, Lucario, TL, Samus...basically characters that don't die to the dsmash footstool edgehog.

Oh, and a non-suicide kill move against Lucas' recovery if you do it properly. Like this.

 

[pichuthedk]

hmm dair when down by a huge margin so i hate to bring this up but during our set at showdown in downtown 17 V.
Why on earth did i not just dair your ass when you trollingly hung low down on the edge that second stock when you were at like 20 and i was at like 130+%? zzzzzzz
Had I have done that then get battered a little for you to do your under the bf stage shinanegans i would have gimped you and won since you messed up with side b . (I kick my self every time i watch that set XD)

But on a serious note my boss ****ed me over and I missed smash fest so to make up for the practice missed I was thinking of doing a little chart based of my memory of things i seem to be having trouble with over the next few days leading up to Impulse.
Since I want to Smash out the kinks in my play vs these characters.
To make a long story short it will go something like this feel free to tell me to move to a different sub forum if it is preferred.

{Marth}
1. What do I find I die to in order of % of the Time
- F-smash 40% of the time (otT)
- Fair gimp 20% otT
- Random nairs in bad situations 10% otT
-D-smash 10% otT
-dair 7.5% otT
-Up tilt/up smash 5% otT
-D tilt Gimp 5% otT
-Shield breaker "ruh Rohs" 2.5% otT [ v115 "yosh you dont shield shield breaker its called that for a reason man"]
I'd like to hear oppinions on options or tips on avoiding these situations.

Now I'd like to ask about somethings like NickRiddle I recall you were saying something about upward forward tilt vs marths to stop his facerolling, Now I have tried to experiment with this a little but I'm Not as experienced in the situational judgement for what circumstances I should be trying it in. Can you point me in the right direction?

I guess i'll cut this shorter then intended in case I need to move it later with 1 more question,
Recently I rediscovered my love for downsmash and how satisfying getting the double D on people for sexy fairs but for things like marth say I were to get a down tilt on him with decent spacing if I were to try and read for Downsmash I might get some of them 22% of the time , Or I'd just miss due to air dodge and luckily get shield up, Worse outcome is I get a aerial fair or some ****. Question is what would some of you guys recommend in situations like this should I just go for safer things like retreating side b, Or quickly dashing then away to pivot grab.
One of my major weakness's in this game is my inability to properly mixup which results in my game play being super inconsistent. I'm really trying my darnedest to evolve that part of my game play so I can perform as well as I believe I can.

/End lifestory

 

[NickRiddle]

hmm dair when down by a huge margin so i hate to bring this up but during our set at showdown in downtown 17 V.
Why on earth did i not just dair your *** when you trollingly hung low down on the edge that second stock when you were at like 20 and i was at like 130+%? zzzzzzz
Had I have done that then get battered a little for you to do your under the bf stage shinanegans i would have gimped you and won since you messed up with side b . (I kick my self every time i watch that set XD)

But on a serious note my boss ****ed me over and I missed smash fest so to make up for the practice missed I was thinking of doing a little chart based of my memory of things i seem to be having trouble with over the next few days leading up to Impulse.
Since I want to Smash out the kinks in my play vs these characters.
To make a long story short it will go something like this feel free to tell me to move to a different sub forum if it is preferred.

{Marth}
1. What do I find I die to in order of % of the Time
- F-smash 40% of the time (otT)
- Fair gimp 20% otT
- Random nairs in bad situations 10% otT
-D-smash 10% otT
-dair 7.5% otT
-Up tilt/up smash 5% otT
-D tilt Gimp 5% otT
-Shield breaker "ruh Rohs" 2.5% otT [ v115 "yosh you dont shield shield breaker its called that for a reason man"]
I'd like to hear oppinions on options or tips on avoiding these situations.

Now I'd like to ask about somethings like NickRiddle I recall you were saying something about upward forward tilt vs marths to stop his facerolling, Now I have tried to experiment with this a little but I'm Not as experienced in the situational judgement for what circumstances I should be trying it in. Can you point me in the right direction?

I guess i'll cut this shorter then intended in case I need to move it later with 1 more question,
Recently I rediscovered my love for downsmash and how satisfying getting the double D on people for sexy fairs but for things like marth say I were to get a down tilt on him with decent spacing if I were to try and read for Downsmash I might get some of them 22% of the time , Or I'd just miss due to air dodge and luckily get shield up, Worse outcome is I get a aerial fair or some ****. Question is what would some of you guys recommend in situations like this should I just go for safer things like retreating side b, Or quickly dashing then away to pivot grab.
One of my major weakness's in this game is my inability to properly mixup which results in my game play being super inconsistent. I'm really trying my darnedest to evolve that part of my game play so I can perform as well as I believe I can.

/End lifestory

When Marth jumps, before he fairs you, f-tilt him.
That's about it.

 

[pichuthedk]

When Marth jumps, before he fairs you, f-tilt him.
That's about it.

Alright so I was super tired yesterday didn't manage to get into real specifics of what I meant,
Like is there a range of % where I shouldn't even bother attempting this due to insufficient knock back or will I have a generally always have a chance to shield/spot dodge/troll forward tilt again.

 

[NickRiddle]

I have no idea. Probably around 40% you'll get away with PSing a Dolphin Slash.

 

[Heero Yuy]

2 Questions:

1. What options for tech chasing does ZSS have?

2. Idk what it's called... Where she SideB's the ledge and instantly drops down free for a jump or whatever. What's the use for that in matches?

 

[pichuthedk]

1. if your in the position where you don't need to really move other then pivot left or right you can Dsmash but safer options would probably be to grab since its hilarious to get free grabs off.
other others i can can include dash attack-uptilt , and maybe uncharged laser depending on the enemies roll speed /invulnerability time frame.

2. It's called a tether cancel you just tether ledge and press down to let go before pulling your self up
(note be careful you don't double down and enable fast fall)
This is basically to give you more options for example if someone always trolls you when you go to tether normally with an aerial you can do following based on your circumstances
-If you still have jump you can tether to cancel immediately before you fall and hang there -> fall under them alittle Then jump and up air or bair/nair them, What ever you want really just so long as you are not to low when you finish making you unable to retether
-without jump it would probably sometimes be a nice mix-up to just tether to cancel to retether when your lower and out of harms way.

Geeze here I am talking like I do that all the time maybe if I did more I'd stop getting all those 50% & under gimp deaths Zzzz.

If you want to know anything else hit me up I'm rather bored and would like to keep going over things before this weekends tourney...Gotta love refresher courses XD

 

[DeLux]

ITT: Grab is a safer option than Dsmash

 

[Maestro_]

Never thought I'd see "grab" and "safe option" in the same sentence regarding Zero Suit lol

 

[onlyaaron17]

How do you b-reverse ZSS's B move?

 

[infiniteV115]

The same way you b-reverse any b-move

Read here for a non-vague answer
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...s-and-wavebounces-know-the-difference.334389/

 

[Maestro_]

How do you b-reverse ZSS's B move?

Run, jump, press (and hold) b and instantly press opposite direction after pressing b.

edit: ninja'd by the ever-present V.

 

[pichuthedk]

ITT: Grab is a safer option than Dsmash

Well looking at the next post after you .

Never thought I'd see "grab" and "safe option" in the same sentence regarding Zero Suit lol

^ I have a tendency of making the worst choices to grab something about that "I think i can x3" mentality "Oh hes far away I think i can grab him before he aerials me" -> nope tipper fair hits her hands and im not off stage where I tend to die due to not fully understanding and utilizing all my offstage options...Well hopefully I can Do a major improvement today at smash fest for Impulse Tomorrow I must make it out of pools I don't want to drown again like last year T.T.

Ninja edit im going through to try and find some tips and pointers vs Mario I Absolutely hate that mofo almost more than MK.
Like legit because hes Italian I assume he makes good pasta so that's why I tolerate him Lol...

My issue seems to be stupid **** like no matter what I do I am always in harms way of one of his moves regardless of change of strategy...Well I guess that isn't 100% true since I can sometimes do better depending on the opponent but i'd seriously be more comfortable fighting MK then Mario Anyday. T.T

 

[onlyaaron17]

I'm trying to flipstool shorthop into b- reversals and wave bounces as an option that , so that When ZSS shoots out her neutral b, it will be shot directly at the opponent I flipstooled. Any tips to do it? Her flipstool directions are confusing lol ( like where she faces off directional flipstool). Btw I got the neutral b reversal and turnaround but not the wavebounce. Thanks for the help guys! She just gets even more fun to play with lol.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Ninja edit im going through to try and find some tips and pointers vs Mario I Absolutely hate that mofo almost more than MK.
Like legit because hes Italian I assume he makes good pasta so that's why I tolerate him Lol...

Thank heaven I'm not the only one. I absolutely hold a grudge against this one Mario player who kept choosing Final Destination so he could rack up wins. That was until I counterpicked (w/o his approval, of course) with Battlefield and kicked his arse there. Greedy people piss me off (part of the reason I quit Wifi). /endrant

How do you instantly pivot on the ground with a neutralB? I can pivot SideB and grab during a dash with ease, but I also seem to see people do it with the taser.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Run -> B -> Opposite direction.

Done :D

Absolutely useless with Falco. :<

 

[pichuthedk]

zz I've always managed to do this with zss didn't know there were specific inputs for it lol

 

[Dakpo]

I have a question, and this concerns the uses d-air has, you see, I use her as a secondary and i'd like to know all the uses her d-air has, can anyone tell me?

If you do a boosted up B jump from your footsool on the ground followed by a double jump, you can dair for lagless landing #useless

 

[pichuthedk]

so i've been wondering since i was curious during my money match with a rob if after you do the Downsmash to footstool off stage if there is a list of chars that can just be spiked if they would otherwise take forever to get back up to the ledge.

I didn't want to go home 5$ less so i didn't bother trying although now that i think about it i did fail the infinite game 1 3 and 5 zzzz... so when i lost anyways i kinda felt like i deserved it D:. If i got it off even once i would have demoralized him beyond repair oh well.

 

[Spaghetti]

how can someone deal with nado? my only real vsmk practice has been vs m2k on one day and that was just me getting bodied, and at one point i managed to grab him out of nado but that didnt really work again.

i know suitpieces break through nado, but are there specific frames i should be aiming to hit for a grab or something?

 

[infiniteV115]

Suitpieces don't 'break through' nado per se. They will only hit MK out of nado if they hit the area where MK's hurtbox is exposed (there's no hitbox here so the suitpieces don't clash with anything...it's basically hitting nado from directly above or diagonally above) but pretty much any aerial can do that, you just have to aim it properly (assuming the MK isn't terrible at controlling nado he won't let you do this easily)

Dsmash goes right through nado, but a good MK will just nado over your dsmash and scoop you up by the head.
A grounded sideB flat out breaks through nado and hits MK because of the damage it does...but against it's not that reliable cause the MK can just nado over it.
Our downB kick goes right through nado but it has a lot of ending lag and landing lag and a very predictable trajectory so again the MK can just weave around it and still hit you safely.
Grab/pivot grab work, but they have the same problem as dsmash/grounded sideB...and with a lot more ending lag.

Your best bets at avoiding nado are either to aim an attack to hit MK's exposed hurtbox, running away, shield --> punish (needs a healthy shield), crawling --> shield --> punish, downB kicks that you cancel by sliding off the edge of the stage/platforms, or jumping over and around it. Generally you're going to need to use at least 2 of these strategies.

 

[Spaghetti]

nice writeup, ill definitely put this to good use thanks