Zero Suit Samus Questions & Answers

[Tesh]

up b has such weak hitstun that u can usually buffer an airdge and no need to tech


i was talking about aerial up b where your opponent winds up below you

 

[Dakpo]

Why do Zero Suits uses Up B when juggling? 90% of the time I see Salem do this, he just reverses the situation for 8 damage. The move only seems to be useful in specific percent ranges where someone might DI into you for a free aerial.

I have finally come to the conclusion that Salem picks a lot of options that seem bad on paper, but add to his dominating momentum. He does it because his play still feeds from running down his opponent and not letting them get away, even if it isnt the best option. I would surmise he does bair after his Down smash at low percents to try and give me more of a chance to stay close to his opponent to continue feeding off his momentum. Although I shudder at the Idea of making bair needlessly stale like that. V115 thank you for using nair like me <3
TLDR- Thats his playstyle

 

[DeLux]

Bair why 2013

 

[Demna]

Sometimes when I up-B to tether grab the edge, the tether auto cancels itself. Even if I was close enough to be able to use Up-B twice as an attempt to grab the edge, both would auto cancel and lead to my SD. What is the reason for this unintended auto cancel?

 

[DeLux]

Well, it's definitely not auto cancelling, because that term means landing with an aerial without suffering aerial landing lag.

 

[PEACE7]

Um well you can only do 3 consecutive upBs onto the ledge after that you have to land back onstage

 

[Demna]

Um well you can only do 3 consecutive upBs onto the ledge after that you have to land back onstage

So let's say I Up-B > Ledge Grab > drop and repeat. After the third time, will the Up-B be able to tether grab the edge? Or will it drop like it did in my case?

 

[PEACE7]

It won't tether onto the ledge it will go for it but won't attach so you just drop

 

[Demna]

It won't tether onto the ledge it will go for it but won't attach so you just drop

Thanks, that really helped.
Regarding Platform cancel with ZSS. What's the safest way of performing it? I'm good at Platform canceling but I haven't mastered it yet, meaning the method I use (C-stick down when aligned with the platform) may lead to missing the platform alignment and SDing (taking about Smashville mostly).

 

[infiniteV115]

Pretty much everything you need to know about platform cancelling can be found here
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/platform-cancel-stuff.323822/
From now on, when you want to ask a question, think about whether the question is specific to ZSS or not. If it's not, don't ask here.,

 

[DeLux]

The safest way is to do any platform cancelling method except the one you mentioned due to the obvious negative where a technical error results in an SD. You could do a variety of things like option selecting a missed input to cover you with things like Bair/Uair or airdodge, etc. It sort of depends on what option you want to do out of it, and the trade off for what you risk if you mess up


Ninja'd by v115

 

[Demna]

Thanks for the info

 

[pichuthedk]

Safest way to do platform cancel down b kick -> wreck their face like v115 trolls me with all the time D:.
Now I just laser him cause hes a jerk :D.
also one more thingyou said ''Sometimes when I up-B to tether grab the edge, the tether auto cancels itself.'t

remember to be careful when you are kind close for to under the ledge. Because sometimes if say you were on lylat ,and the ship turned while you were up bing it will cancel it's self as it's attaching and you'll fall unless your able to get back from under it and up b again D:.

Lylat and frigate have killed my ass so much cause of what ever god damn troll is driving the lylat ship.

 

[Demna]

Safest way to do platform cancel down b kick -> wreck their face like v115 trolls me with all the time D:.

How is it done exactly? When I rise through the platform (by pressing X to jump), I also press down on the analog stick and use B when I'm aligned with the platform, but it seems a bit off. Any tips regarding this PC? Are there any video examples of this?

 

[infiniteV115]

The downB platform cancel isn't a 'platform cancel' per se, but rather it's just when you do your downB kick, and space it so that you land on the edge of the stage/platform and then slide off of it.

He just called it a 'platform cancel' cause it's a method of cancelling ZSS' downB kick using a platform.

 

[Demna]

Regarding F-air, the first kick's sweetspot has to hit the opponent in order for the second kick to connect. Is the first kick's sweetspot located towards the end of the hitbox? Or does it have a specific extended location?

 

[DeLux]

People hit with only Fair 2 all the time. You don't need to hit with Fair1 to hit with Fair 2.

 

[Demna]

I concur, but knowing the exact sweetspot of Fair 1 might come in handy in specific situations. I saw Salem space out a tremendous Fair 1 which led to a Fair 2 kill (It was used on Mew2king and got him killed at around 90%)

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Regarding F-air, the first kick's sweetspot has to hit the opponent in order for the second kick to connect. Is the first kick's sweetspot located towards the end of the hitbox? Or does it have a specific extended location?

There isn't a 'sweetspot' on the first kick of forward air. All three hitboxes on that move are the same. The second kick is strong at first, then weakens.

 

[Demna]

There isn't a 'sweetspot' on the first kick of forward air. All three hitboxes on that move are the same. The second kick is strong at first, then weakens.

It's said that in order for the second kick to connect from the first, the first kick's sweetspot must connect. If you're saying that there is no sweetspot and that all three hitboxes are the same, then how can you explain when the first kick doesn't lead to the second?

 

[infiniteV115]

It's said that in order for the second kick to connect from the first, the first kick's sweetspot must connect. If you're saying that there is no sweetspot and that all three hitboxes are the same, then how can you explain when the first kick doesn't lead to the second?

DI
SDI
Opponent's at too high %
You full hop when you should have short hopped
You SH when you should have full hopped
You didn't move towards the opponent
You landed/got hit before the 2nd kick came out

That should cover all possibilities

But yeah, fair1 has no sweetspots. All 3 hitboxes have the same damage, knockback and knockback angles. They're just in different locations, are of different size; everything else is the same.

Salem killing M2K at ~90% with fair2 was (iirc) at Apex 2013, GFs game 5 first stock on BF. If this is what you're thinking of, they were already just really high up on the screen and M2K DI'd up so he died early. It had nothing to do with Salem's spacing of fair1, other than the fact that he appropriately full hopped and was jumping towards M2K.

Fair2 has a sweetspot at the tip of ZSS' foot cause that hitbox does more damage, but that's it.

 

[Demna]

Salem killing M2K at ~90% with fair2 was (iirc) at Apex 2013, GFs game 5 first stock on BF. If this is what you're thinking of, they were already just really high up on the screen and M2K DI'd up so he died early. It had nothing to do with Salem's spacing of fair1, other than the fact that he appropriately full hopped and was jumping towards M2K.

It was a game where M2K was gliding toward the stage at which Salem F-aired him and took the game, I think it was in Rescue 2 iirc.

 

[pichuthedk]

It was a game where M2K was gliding toward the stage at which Salem F-aired him and took the game, I think it was in Rescue 2 iirc.

I think I remember that being brought up before in mu discussions, Fair mks when they decide to glide cause you clang the glide attack if they throw it out and fair hit 2 hits them. I don't remember if he was the first to bring it up but I also remember seeing Salem state fair as an option ( I really wish I could find that page I've been working on my Mk mu since everyone seems to main Mk on allisbrawl.com zzz)

and wait v isn't there another possible situation?
You Jump full hope and get a charged laser -> double jump -> fair.

 

[infiniteV115]

It was a game where M2K was gliding toward the stage at which Salem F-aired him and took the game, I think it was in Rescue 2 iirc.

Just skimmed through the entire set. Salem only killed M2K with fair at the end of the set (last stock game 3), and M2K was gliding at him.
M2K was at 116% before the fair1, he didn't die at 90% lol. Huge difference. Fair is strong and it was fresh so it kills MK at that %, pretty sure a fresh bair would have killed too.

There was nothing special about that fair, it was just a regular SH fair. He did sweetspot the fair2 but I'm fairly certain a non-sweetspotted fair2 still would have killed if it was fresh.

 

[Demna]

I heard that Snake's F-tilt could be punished via shield-grab, what about Snake's up-tilt? Can it be punished with a shield grab?

 

[pichuthedk]

I heard that Snake's F-tilt could be punished via shield-grab, what about Snake's up-tilt? Can it be punished with a shield grab?

You might be able to but that's if he can't spot dodge or get another up tilt out. But honestly when your in Snakes up tilt country I really don't think you want to risk ****ing around lol... damn last tourney set ended with a snake uptilt damn him.

There was nothing special about that fair, it was just a regular SH fair. He did sweetspot the fair2 but I'm fairly certain a non-sweetspotted fair2 still would have killed if it was fresh.

Umm was wondering if you use a fresh fair and land both hit will it have staled at all from the first hit of fair?

 

[Demna]

Just skimmed through the entire set. Salem only killed M2K with fair at the end of the set (last stock game 3), and M2K was gliding at him.
M2K was at 116% before the fair1, he didn't die at 90% lol. Huge difference. Fair is strong and it was fresh so it kills MK at that %, pretty sure a fresh bair would have killed too.

Could have sworn I saw Salem kill a Dark Metaknight with a full hop F-air at around 90% , the distance off the stage made it possible to kill that MK with a F-air. Maybe it was ZeRo? I don't really remember.

 

[infiniteV115]

Umm was wondering if you use a fresh fair and land both hit will it have staled at all from the first hit of fair?

No, both hits will be fresh.

Could have sworn I saw Salem kill a Dark Metaknight with a full hop F-air at around 90% , the distance off the stage made it possible to kill that MK with a F-air. Maybe it was ZeRo? I don't really remember.

Well then find the video you're talking about and then show me.

 

[Demna]

You might be able to but that's if he can't spot dodge or get another up tilt out. But honestly when your in Snakes up tilt country I really don't think you want to risk ****ing around lol... damn last tourney set ended with a snake uptilt damn him.

Really hate fighting Snake myself, it's just so ridiculously hard to kill Snake and it's so easy to die from one. The match that irritated me the most was V115 vs DDM's first match:

That first game must have been so frustrating to V, good job on 3rd game's last stock though.

Well then find the video you're talking about and then show me.

I remember seeing it on Twitch, I will run a search on youtube later and show you (If I hopefully find it).

 

[infiniteV115]

Lol that set is really old and from back when I wasn't that great, it's not representative of the MU at all

If anything you should watch the dozens of Nick Riddle vs MVD sets that are on youtube, or Salem vs MVD at Rescue 3

 

[Demna]

Lol that set is really old and from back when I wasn't that great, it's not representative of the MU at all

If anything you should watch the dozens of Nick Riddle vs MVD sets that are on youtube, or Salem vs MVD at Rescue 3

Hmmm, both Salem and NR did well against many Snakes, but the matchup is certainly hard for ZSS (-1 I assume). Btw, haven't you played a set against another top ZSS? I liked the set between Salem and NR, it was quite interesting.

 

[infiniteV115]

No, I haven't.

Also I think the MU is even and so does Nick Riddle. You just have to fight Snake fairly differently than most other chars so at first it seems hard

 

[pichuthedk]

yes snakes a jerk D:. this is game 3 from my recent set vs ddm at the last tourney we had.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEX8dEpQ5vA

To be honest I def made a lot of mistakes that cost me it all went down hill after i miss spaced a down smash on snake off stage but got hit by cipher
musta been demoralized from game 2

 

[Demna]

yes snakes a jerk D:. this is game 3 from my recent set vs ddm at the last tourney we had.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEX8dEpQ5vA

To be honest I def made a lot of mistakes that cost me it all went down hill after i miss spaced a down smash on snake off stage but got hit by cipher
musta been demoralized from game 2

It was funny seeing DDM B-reversal into his own mine and got punished with an Up-air afterwards. I was quite shocked of your DI from Snake's F-tilt which took your second stock, it was fortunately that he SD-ed second stock which can help your mentality. But yeah I think it's hard fighting Snake as a ZSS, I asked for tips regarding this MU but still haven't gotten any detailed replies yet.

 

[pichuthedk]

It was funny seeing DDM B-reversal into his own mine and got punished with an Up-air afterwards. I was quite shocked of your DI from Snake's F-tilt which took your second stock, it was fortunately that he SD-ed second stock which can help your mentality..

Again I was so dead by the time this set ran over but I shall forever kick my self for throwing that last game. I just got demoralized because I played really well that tournament, Also I KNOW FOR A FACT I would have footstooled him and followed his ass off the map and spiked him or another footstool. Then not only did that kill get denied I decided to get trigger happy and try to finish him somehow which resulted in him landing beside me and up tilting while i was trying to bair or something.


" But yeah I think it's hard fighting Snake as a ZSS, I asked for tips regarding this MU but still haven't gotten any detailed replies yet"

well I guess I can tell you things I've actually managed to noticed about a lot of snakes anyone can feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
-If you let snakes stand at about 1 and 3/4's length of your side b they will probably start pulling nades.
-If your only 1 and 1/4 of a side b's range away from snake he will probably dacus you.
- You should probably try to practice sdi his tilt and jab and his nair ( i'm still figuring out the nair di =/ )
-Snakes up tilt sends you up and behind him , I honestly didn't know bout that till I read it in some di thread.
-What you should try is to figure out that dash attack lock range against. snake and use if he decides pull nades way closer then he should even a good laser will let you get it off. there is a video about it on youtube still i'm sure , There is also a thread about it.

Fighting snake honestly just feels like dealing with space issues. "oh can't go here cause that troll snake planted a mine " We should just be finding the answers to what he's doing like if he were to swing over head with his jab and we could just choose to duck and crawl back to avoid it and shield after.

 

[Demna]

Again I was so dead by the time this set ran over but I shall forever kick my self for throwing that last game. I just got demoralized because I played really well that tournament, Also I KNOW FOR A FACT I would have footstooled him and followed his *** off the map and spiked him or another footstool. Then not only did that kill get denied I decided to get trigger happy and try to finish him somehow which resulted in him landing beside me and up tilting while i was trying to bair or something.

No worries, we all get nervous and make mistakes at one point, it's no a big deal really. You did well in that set, don't let that last game get you down.

But yeah I think it's hard fighting Snake as a ZSS, I asked for tips regarding this MU but still haven't gotten any detailed replies yet"

well I guess I can tell you things I've actually managed to noticed about a lot of snakes anyone can feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
-If you let snakes stand at about 1 and 3/4's length of your side b they will probably start pulling nades.
-If your only 1 and 1/4 of a side b's range away from snake he will probably dacus you.
- You should probably try to practice sdi his tilt and jab and his nair ( i'm still figuring out the nair di =/ )
-Snakes up tilt sends you up and behind him , I honestly didn't know bout that till I read it in some di thread.
-What you should try is to figure out that dash attack lock range against. snake and use if he decides pull nades way closer then he should even a good laser will let you get it off. there is a video about it on youtube still i'm sure , There is also a thread about it.

Fighting snake honestly just feels like dealing with space issues. "oh can't go here cause that troll snake planted a mine " We should just be finding the answers to what he's doing like if he were to swing over head with his jab and we could just choose to duck and crawl back to avoid it and shield after.

The main problem I'm having against Snake is when we're in the CQC range, his tilts just destroy me. Every time I try to SH over him to land a falling B-air/Up-air, I eat an Up-tilt. Just need more practice on Snake I assume.

 

[1PokeMastr]

To SDi Snake's Nair, going up and behind Snake usually works the best.

 

[pichuthedk]

Cool thanks poke

also thanks Denma . Inregard to tilts i donno but i am positive that v115 likes to reset situations with troll things like jab to run away or what ever really its just little things i guess


we should probably focus on getting a lead and then just defensive punishes i just need more combat experience.

 

[Tesh]

To SDi Snake's Nair, going up and behind Snake usually works the best.

This might be obvious to most, but keep in mind you want to SDI in the opposite direction Snake is moving to get out more easily. From a defensive perspective anyway. If he is rising, you want to SDI down. If he is retreating, you want to SDI towards the front of the move.

However if you are salty about getting hit and want to counter attack, you pretty much always want to SDI hard below and behind so you can pop out and hit with your uair.

 

[1PokeMastr]

I wanted to answer the situation that occurs most.
I'm aware how to SDi Snake's Nair given the situation.

Up and behind still works in all but retreating.