Zelda Social Thread

[KassandraNova]

Whoever is in charge of Zelda's design, it would be really helpful if nair always sent people in front of you instead of sometimes sending them backwards when you cancel it part way through. It's really annoying to land a falling nair, try to follow up with a grab, and then they land behind you and you miss.

I feel like people can smash DI out of it really easily or something.
I wish the move had as much hitstun/damage as maybe Lucas' nair or something.

 

[BJN39]

lol Nair can do up to 18% damage and can't be SDI-ed, The move is fine. Just don't fall too fast or rise too fast when using it or it won't connect anyways.

 

[Zerudahime]

well..one of my favorite traps is using nair to launch the opponent into a well placed dins fire...
very useful property of the move when used properly

http://youtu.be/tgvYLNGtYK8?t=2m23s

 

[Wavebuster]

Whoever is in charge of Zelda's design, it would be really helpful if nair always sent people in front of you instead of sometimes sending them backwards when you cancel it part way through. It's really annoying to land a falling nair, try to follow up with a grab, and then they land behind you and you miss.

This isn't possible due to how the linking hits in Nair work. If they're in front of Zelda, they get pulled back. If they're behind her, they get pulled to her front. This is what allows the move to even link properly in the air to its end. Landing during the move won't change the fact that the last hit that connected sends the opposite direction the opponent was relative to Zelda. tl;dr it's not a realistic coding possibility.

 

[KassandraNova]

OMG lol! Fsmash =

If only JCs had saved the stream of PMS 2.5. That would've been a lot to show those people in the TLSpec. thread.


Also, Hiya Kassandra, It's nice to see another person choosing to play zelda.

What made you decide to play Zelda?

Sparkles. She's a pretty princess, but mostly sparkles I guess.
I like to play like I have no fear with Zelda.

 

[Blondie.]

This isn't possible due to how the linking hits in Nair work. If they're in front of Zelda, they get pulled back. If they're behind her, they get pulled to her front. This is what allows the move to even link properly in the air to its end. Landing during the move won't change the fact that the last hit that connected sends the opposite direction the opponent was relative to Zelda. tl;dr it's not a realistic coding possibility.

I understand what you're saying, but why can't it work like nayru's love? That move ALWAYS sends the opponent in front of you at the end. That would be pretty helpful to have.

Also, moves like falco's nair in brawl are multihit, but they always seem to be able to stay in front of you when chaining the hits so that when you land cancel, they don't end up behind you. It's probably because they have much lower knockback on each hit.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Just decided to change my PM main to Zelda today since I 4-stocked my friend's Fox...

So hi all. :D (not awkward at all, no?)

 

[Deleted member]

2.6 is here! What changes has our lovely princess gone through?

To start things off, the semi-sweetspots of her Lightning Kicks seem stronger. They may have been restored to their Melee stats. Rest assured though, she still has the super sweet-spots.

 

[Wavebuster]

For both of you loyal Zelda mains out there:

-Jab launching hitbox has a higher launch angle and slightly higher BKB and less KBG.
-Utilt knockback increased very slightly.
-Usmash's lifting hitboxes fine tuned to not throw certain characters out of the move after several connected hits. Has another linking hit and deals 1 more damage. IASA no longer increased from Melee, but equal to it.
-Nair does consistent damage output depending on number of hits rather than placement of hits.
-Uair's sweetspot size minutely increased. Weak electric hit slightly improved. GFX/SFX timers edited for accuracy.
-Fair/Bair flub damage increased to 8 to be closer to Melee's, and are KB compensated. Critical sweetspots increased in size slightly to offer more consistency while still being tiny (2/3 size of Rest). Critical Bair has slightly more BKB. Noncrit electric hits have increased damage/KB slightly closer to Melee. Noncrit Fair hitboxes have slightly lower launch angle similar to its critical but not quite as potent.
-Dthrow and Fthrow damage increased by 1 and 2.
-Dair has somewhat increased shield damage and a less small sweetspot, and more KBG against grounded targets. Flub damage increased to 8 from 7 like side aerials.
-Din's Fire's flashing graphics loop 6 times instead of 5 before exploding (explosion timing is roughly the same). Minimum time to set slowed down, and set animation has increased lag to deter walling. Set hitboxes are smaller, but activate sooner after setting the projectile. Explosions are significantly larger and deadlier.
-Transform no longer has slowed down startup. Appearing out of Transform while grounded is interruptible on frame 8, instead of instantly (air reappearance is still instantly interruptible). Same change made to Sheik's Transform.

 

[Juushichi]

Awesome, nice and subtle changes.

 

[otheusrex]

I love the changes! especially ftilt, which makes my zelda playing 100% more fun! Also, finally her fair/bair feel right. I've felt frowny face about her kicks since I started project m. Great work! Also, I'm really surprised her dair isn't changed at all. I guess I just got better at using it since I was expecting it to be tweaked

 

[Wavebuster]

Actually, Dair was tweaked (ftilt wasn't though... why do people keep thinking this?). I had just forgotten to include notes for it for some reason.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Wait, how is her ftilt different from 2.5's? (I only used 2.5 for about a day since 2.6 came out the next day)

 

[Arcalyth]

Wait, how is her ftilt different from 2.5's? (I only used 2.5 for about a day since 2.6 came out the next day)

The post directly above yours says ftilt wasn't changed.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Derp. Completely misread that. Meant to write Dair and not Ftilt. And since Wavebuster already edited his earlier post, my question's answered.

 

[BJN39]

I like all of these changes. Subtle, but good. I especially love din's bigger booms.

And yay! Kicks are getting closer. Embarrass

 

[Kink-Link5]

Kicks: Closer yet to Melee

SOON.

Still lacking the mobility I like about her in Melee SDR, but,

SOON.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Does anyone else claw their love jump? Seeing as though I find it difficult to press B right after jumping?

 

[Arcalyth]

To me it seems like a very similar motion to multishining or SHFFLed aerials with the C-stick or like a reversed motion for JC shine or something
Your problem is less likely the technical aspect of it and more likely that you're not timing your hitstun properly.

Probably. I don't really know.

 

[BJN39]

Claw it? IDK, I don't think so. I find it easier to love jump in P:M than in brawl.

Try to bring your pointer finger up to the jump button (I use y, it may be different if you use x or something else.) while keeping you thumb on b. This input style makes it easy to buffer a direction.

It's just about pressing jump and b really quick consecutively.

 

[Wavebuster]

Love Jumping for recovery purposes almost certainly requires clawing. The timing for a good Love Jump is strict and will need a finger on both Jump and Special for ease of execution. There's also the complication of having to direct the jump fully forward with the control stick (you know, recovery) in the Jump and going to neutral before the Special input so that Din's Fire doesn't come out. This is easiest to synch up in one "motion" with fingers on all three inputs simultaneously.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Try to bring your pointer finger up to the jump button (I use y, it may be different if you use x or something else.) while keeping you thumb on b. This input style makes it easy to buffer a direction.

This is already pretty close to the claw grip.

And Wavebuster's depth pretty much summed it up.

 

[Arcalyth]

Claw it?
Try to bring your pointer finger up to the jump button

that's exactly what Claw is

listen to Wavebuster he knows way more than I do

 

[Heero Yuy]

Today I learned Zelda has a Ken Combo... Now to buy a capture card so I can record the replay.

 

[Blondie.]

I don't have much of a melee background, so I wanted to know if a wd on stage from the ledge to an immediate teleport would be relatively safe. I know you wouldn't be invincible the whole time, but would it be a decent option to get back on stage? I always feel like I get trapped on the ledge with Zelda. What good options does she have other than just Nayru's Love on?

Also, for love jumping I will use the butt of my thumb to quickly slide it from Y to B. This works really well for me because it allows me to just fling my thumb without risk of hitting any other buttons and it is really fast (I learned it from doing IAPs with Brawl Falco).

 

[Heero Yuy]

I don't have much of a melee background, so I wanted to know if a wd on stage from the ledge to an immediate teleport would be relatively safe. I know you wouldn't be invincible the whole time, but would it be a decent option to get back on stage? I always feel like I get trapped on the ledge with Zelda. What good options does she have other than just Nayru's Love on?

I find LH WDing -> FW to generally be safe depending on where your opponent is. Do bear in mind that during your teleport, you can still waveland wherever you desire in the middle of movement (note that this technique only works on the ground). Space the FW properly if your opponent is standing right above the ledge and you might land its hitbox on him/her. Not a safe option at all if your opponent can touch you from wherever you decide to land, but in the end it's a mind game thing.

Just another recovery option that takes a lot of skill to utilize effectively. Oh yeah, don't use this technique against Marth...

 

[MARaTHonman]

I am a Zelda main.

The group I play with is somewhat casual. We haven't gone to any tournaments, but I'd like to get to the next level. Any advice would be appreciated, and hopefully, I'll eventually be able to share my insights, too.

 

[Arcalyth]

Wanna get to the next level? Go to a tournament.

In the mean time, do your research and do lab work. During friendlies don't be afraid to try things. Watch videos, and if you can, download them so you can watch them in slow motion to analyze decision-making and spacing.

Here's some good info on how to practice by Dr Peepee
How to Practice On Your Own by PPMD

 

[Heero Yuy]

For any curious Zelds newbs who wanna know how far Farore's Wind goes without WL cancelling, stand on one of the circles on Battlefield then teleport to the one in the other direction. I guarantee you a perfect landing on the other circle.

 

[MARaTHonman]

Quick question: How does everyone deal with an opponents mindgames? I've been having trouble with my friend's Captain Falcon. He dash dances a lot, and for whatever reason it fakes me out. I get baited dash attacking against his shield, which is frustrating because I should know better. I guess related to that, does anyone have advice for when you're playing someone and you can tell that they've "figured you out," so to speak? Having a variety of options is obviously important, but should you practice different things even if what you're already doing is working? Anyways, thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[SpiderMad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrxVXHXHVcc

 

[Heero Yuy]

Quick question: How does everyone deal with an opponents mindgames? I've been having trouble with my friend's Captain Falcon. He dash dances a lot, and for whatever reason it fakes me out. I get baited dash attacking against his shield, which is frustrating because I should know better. I guess related to that, does anyone have advice for when you're playing someone and you can tell that they've "figured you out," so to speak? Having a variety of options is obviously important, but should you practice different things even if what you're already doing is working? Anyways, thanks in advance for any responses.

I tend to use their own medicine against them by also throwing in mindgames. Mix up your approaches, use Din's Fires for different methods (I feel this is one of the better mindgame options Zelda has), and recovering from different angles are ways to be less predictable. Farore's Wind also makes a good mind game once you master how to airdodge cancel it on the ground - landing in various spots and hitting your opponent with surprise attacks. It will be harder for them to read you using Zelda's limited but wide variety of options.

Zelda's dash attack is really good, but a mistake a lot of new Zelda players make is using it too frequently to the point they'll be shield grabbed a lot. SH Nayru's Love, dash grabbing (though not my favorite), and Fsmashing are mixups in addition to dash attacking. What I do is to look at my opponent's DI. If they're in the air right in front of me, I usually dash attack again because I know they won't be able to shield it. You'll have to use more vital judgment when they DI into the ground, even more if they're just standing there. 'What are they expecting for you to run into them with?' is what you want to ask yourself.

For your scenario, to avoid a Captain Falcon knee (or any aerial for that matter) out of a dash dance, you would need to learn how to really outspace this move. Zelda's pretty tall, so SHing or even FHing away doesn't do too much (plus C. Falcon's air mobility is superior to hers). Therefore, try wavedashing OoS in hopes you can escape the sweetspot and punish with a Bair or something. It's just how I handle my friend's Captain Falcon.

 

[Arcalyth]

Jab and fsmash are safe on block when spaced properly
Use Din's to cut options, use FW to mixup your movement (not recommended at neutral...)
Keep people out of your range, then punish hard. Try SH double bair/fair and SH fair/bair/dair wavelands

some ideas

 

[MARaTHonman]

So, thank you for the tips. They worked incredibly well. I didn't lose a set for like 2 hours. Zelda is too good.

 

[Heero Yuy]

Zelda is too good.

Glad we could help. She most certainly is incredible.

On that note, although I'm not really that good, myself, I feel like there are things Zelda can do that players aren't exactly doing with her. People tend to speculate that she's mid-low tier or lower, but I honestly feel like she's top 8 material.

 

[Juushichi]

I think she is solidly mid tier, maybe mid-high at most.

Zhime, who are your top-8 in the game and how do you see Zelda's MUs against them?

 

[Zerudahime]

I think she is solidly mid tier, maybe mid-high at most.

Zhime, who are your top-8 in the game and how do you see Zelda's MUs against them?

Ehh...I dont really want to get into that and throw my opinions all over the place...but I think the hardest MUs for Zelda are pretty obvious...
The ones I specifically dont like in 2.6 are: Bowser, Ike, wario, luigi, and gw....maybe throw squirtle and MK in there also...

MK cant clank dins, but his maneuverability and attacks make up for that...

EDIT: As far as tier placement, shes high tier imo...even while being attached to Sheik who is clearly higher than her, if you use them both simultaneously it doesn't make them together very much higher than what they would be standalone given the way transform works now and transformation mid-game. It mixes up the opponent and makes them have to play the mu differently, but thats really about it.

 

[Zwarm]

What don't you like about Bowser? I haven't played Kirk's in a while, but I always felt like it was a very doable MU. She has a lot of ways to keep him in the air, where he can't just safely up B out of everything forever.

 

[Blondie.]

I've got a little game for all you Zelda players. I call it the up b challenge.

Rules are:

You have to be Zelda

You have to play on battlefield

You get 1 hp in stamina battle

You have to play against a level 9 Mario

You can only use up b

Survive as long as possible

No ledge stalling allowed

My record is 53 seconds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwtCu2a-aeg&feature=youtube_gdata_player (sorry for the crappy video)

I hope someone tries to beat it :D

 

[Heero Yuy]

That looks like a good exercise to improve mobility and control with UpB.