Guide Zelda Social: But also the FE Heroes Internet Cafe

[Baskerville]

Thank god @ Lavani @Koiba @WaifuRaccoonBL these Rosies aren't one of "them"

;_;
Profound Sadness.

 

[Ffamran]

Doesn't work.

It also sucks.

"Reservoir before F"

"Horizontal Qiang"

and

"Offset"

are some of my favourite ones.

Works for me. Maybe I'm used to horrible grammar, poor translations, and general stupid stuff.

That or Falco's is listed in a way where it's actually readable and able to be literally translated.

Anyway, more Falco rants... What game are people playing where Falco's Jab is worse than in Brawl? Jab was "nerfed" and "it used to come out at frame 2". The ****? What game are they playing where Falco's Jab is worse than Zelda's? Do I somehow own a glitched game where Falco's fastest move isn't frame 60?

Is it bad that I hardly use Fox's lasers at all? It's a stark contrast to how I played him back in Brawl.

Use them like Snow and shoot once whenever you get the chance 'cause it's disrespectful.

 

[Furret]

I can't read japanese so idek what I'm looking for.

It's just like finding specials in the frame data, your looking to match up keynumbers first to piece it together
I haven't worked much with it yet, but I can already tell you column (going horizontally)

1. hit frame
2. First actionable frame (I like to call it first free frame, F3 abbreviates even shorter
   
   )
3. frame duration (from start to end)
4. frame duration (number of total frames)
5. ?
6. ?
7. ?
8. Auto cancel frames
9. landing lag

or you can use google translate for "accurate" (****s and giggles) results

Edit: new page

 

[Lavani]

Doesn't work.

It also sucks.

"Reservoir before F"

"Horizontal Qiang"

and

"Offset"

are some of my favourite ones.

here's the columns for the A attacks page (Zelda's data)

also wow I didn't realize how many transcendent attacks Zelda had until now

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Tanks everyone!

I wonder if I should put down clanking on my site...?

 

[Lavani]

I think clanking priorities are good to know, even if I completely left them out of my Greninja data his only non-standard move there is usmash's first hit continuing on clank anyway

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It just upsets me when some attacks have hitboxes that do clank and others that don't!

In Brawl, Wolf's ftilt for example had the further-est hitbox that didn't clank, while the rest did. Like, wtf make up your mind.

 

[Lavani]

I didn't even know those sorts of discrepancies existed until I saw triangles in that column on the spreadsheet today and was like "huh what does that stand for"

It doesn't seem like many moves are like that, at least.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Where was jumpsquat data, I already have soft (2 frames for everyone, just like Brawl) and hard landing frames. I think these are important.

ofc my bowser has trash hard landing numbers. qq

 

[Rickster]

here's the columns for the A attacks page (Zelda's data)


also wow I didn't realize how many transcendent attacks Zelda had until now

This is one of the things I love about using Zelda. Her attacks just power through almost anything. It makes fighting certain characters waaaay easier compared to my secondaries.

I'm bored, anyone want to play?
EDIT 2: Wii U, forgot again

 

[FullMoon]

Ggs @ Alacion

Your gorls are really good!

 

[Alacion]

Ggs @ Alacion

Your gorls are really good!

Gg you wrecked me lol. You out speed Zelda and cam get away with so much. Can't even land safely.

 

[Lavani]

Where was jumpsquat data, I already have soft (2 frames for everyone, just like Brawl) and hard landing frames. I think these are important.

ofc my bowser has trash hard landing numbers. qq

I'm not sure what the number above jump squat is but my current guess is initial dash.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm not sure what the number above jump squat is but my current guess is initial dash.

I can't find the link tho

 

[FullMoon]

Gg you wrecked me lol. You out speed Zelda and cam get away with so much. Can't even land safely.

Not really I think we were pretty even matched for the most part. You even two stocked me with Peach once.

Playing with you did make me realize that I should mix-up with empty hops more often, that's pretty much what I did to beat you in our last match since you would pre-emptively try to grab me.

It's funny, but I think fighting Zelda leaves me more nervous than fighting the likes of Peach even though she's a better character overall. The threat of that elevator killing me at like 60% is really nerve-wracking.

 

[Alacion]

Not really I think we were pretty even matched for the most part. You even two stocked me with Peach once.

Playing with you did make me realize that I should mix-up with empty hops more often, that's pretty much what I did to beat you in our last match since you would pre-emptively try to grab me.

It's funny, but I think fighting Zelda leaves me more nervous than fighting the likes of Peach even though she's a better character overall. The threat of that elevator killing me at like 60% is really nerve-wracking.

I don't play any char that is fast. They would all struggle a lot against you.

 

[Lavani]

I can't find the link tho

tabs on the bottom

first is A button moves, second is specials, third is misc

 

[FullMoon]

I don't play any char that is fast. They would all struggle a lot against you.

I thought you were trying out Fox? He's faster than Greninja in pretty much everything that isn't air speed.

 

[Rizen]

This is one of the things I love about using Zelda. Her attacks just power through almost anything. It makes fighting certain characters waaaay easier compared to my secondaries.

I'm bored, anyone want to play?
EDIT 2: Wii U, forgot again

I'll play.

 

[Fernosaur]

LOL YES THIS I KNEW THIS WOULD COME UP

Villager mains are terrible people, especially if they do this.

@ Fernosaur

Well, not all of us can be chosen and BLESSED by the gods to be unique, sexy, charming and aggro Villagers.

 

[Rickster]

I'll play.

Ok, room's up.

 

[Kofu]

Usually there's at least one character in a given Conquest that I use, but this time there really isn't. Toon Link is probably the closest, so I gave him a whirl for five matches before I ended FG tonight. And man, it feels like there's a decent amount of potential there.

I'll come right out and say it: his aerials feel clunkier to me than normal Link's. He lacks Link's nice sex kick NAir, which is a pretty big blow (as an aside I'm pretty sure Link's NAir has some stupid disjoint or special coding because I've seen it beat out some stupid things). UAir is pretty similar, DAir is just worse unless you get a lucky meteor from someone hanging on a ledge. FAir and BAir are both pretty similar, though FAir is slower, does slightly more damage, and seems to have more range. BAir autocancels from a low jump while FAir has the same weird coding as Palutena's UAir where its IASA frames begin earlier than its autocancel frames (you can jump before you land if you perform it from a low jump but landing will give you normal landing lag). NAir is fast and covers him pretty well, sets up tech chases at low percents.

His throw game is much better than Link's IMO. UThrow feels like it true combos into aerials at low percents and DThrow seems like it might, at least on heavies/fast fallers. His BThrow is like Sonic BThrow lite and it gets heavily buffed by rage. FThrow is whatevs. I could be wrong on the combos but I doubt it.

His normals in general feel like faster but shorter-ranged versions of Link's. They do less damage, but Toon Link's greater mobility allows him to follow up better so it's kind of a moot point. His projectiles are good. I'm not great at using them but his bombs have bigger blast radiuses to compensate for the lower damage. His boomerang being transcendent (I think) on the return is pretty crazy too. One of the tips says he has less landing lag after using arrows in the air so I need to try that out.

I feel like he lacks a good panic button since his reach is pretty short and his grab is a tether, but it baffles me why he hasn't gotten more love.

Also his taunts suck.

 

[Alacion]

I thought you were trying out Fox? He's faster than Greninja in pretty much everything that isn't air speed.

It's pretty mediocre.

 

[Lavani]

Usually there's at least one character in a given Conquest that I use, but this time there really isn't. Toon Link is probably the closest, so I gave him a whirl for five matches before I ended FG tonight. And man, it feels like there's a decent amount of potential there.

I'll come right out and say it: his aerials feel clunkier to me than normal Link's. He lacks Link's nice sex kick NAir, which is a pretty big blow (as an aside I'm pretty sure Link's NAir has some stupid disjoint or special coding because I've seen it beat out some stupid things). UAir is pretty similar, DAir is just worse unless you get a lucky meteor from someone hanging on a ledge. FAir and BAir are both pretty similar, though FAir is slower, does slightly more damage, and seems to have more range. BAir autocancels from a low jump while FAir has the same weird coding as Palutena's UAir where its IASA frames begin earlier than its autocancel frames (you can jump before you land if you perform it from a low jump but landing will give you normal landing lag). NAir is fast and covers him pretty well, sets up tech chases at low percents.

His throw game is much better than Link's IMO. UThrow feels like it true combos into aerials at low percents and DThrow seems like it might, at least on heavies/fast fallers. His BThrow is like Sonic BThrow lite and it gets heavily buffed by rage. FThrow is whatevs. I could be wrong on the combos but I doubt it.

His normals in general feel like faster but shorter-ranged versions of Link's. They do less damage, but Toon Link's greater mobility allows him to follow up better so it's kind of a moot point. His projectiles are good. I'm not great at using them but his bombs have bigger blast radiuses to compensate for the lower damage. His boomerang being transcendent (I think) on the return is pretty crazy too. One of the tips says he has less landing lag after using arrows in the air so I need to try that out.

I feel like he lacks a good panic button since his reach is pretty short and his grab is a tether, but it baffles me why he hasn't gotten more love.

Also his taunts suck.

Tink's fair kills and combos off of bombs, that's about the one positive thing I can say about his aerials compared to Link.

I don't know about his other throws, but I actually fear being grabbed by Tink for bthrow alone. That throw is crazy...and despite being a tether grab, his standing grab coming out frame 12 isn't as bad as one would expect (faster than Greninja ;;).

None of Tink's boomerangs are transcendent at any point, ever.

I dunno why he doesn't get more love either, though I'll admit my opinion of him dropped when I learned his startups were pretty much the same as Link's despite the hit in range. His mobility and I think end lag feels a lot better though.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Toon Link sucks.

I should know, I'm Levnei. I'm teh fraym deyto gawdoz o' weesdawmicul frugs.

 

[Kofu]

Tink's fair kills and combos off of bombs, that's about the one positive thing I can say about his aerials compared to Link.

BAir also kills, and not too much later either.

I don't know about his other throws, but I actually fear being grabbed by Tink for bthrow alone. That throw is crazy...and despite being a tether grab, his standing grab coming out frame 12 isn't as bad as one would expect (faster than Greninja ;.

Yeah, his grab isn't too bad. Range doesn't seem much reduced, either.

None of Tink's boomerangs are transcendant at any point, ever.

Ah. Must he confusing it with the fact that it ignores physical obstacles, like pesky stages, on the return.

I dunno why he doesn't get more love either, though I'll admit my opinion of him dropped when I learned his startups were pretty much the same as Link's despite the hit in range. His mobility and I think end lag feels a lot better though.

I'd imagine he's less popular because regular Link is cooler ("edgier," if you will ) and isn't complete garbage. His higher DPH and range make him easier to pick up too IMO. Toon Link's recovery almost seems worse than Link's, too, at least when just taking Up-B distance into account.

Mobility is easily his greatest edge. Toon Link sits at #17 for run speed, just under Marf and just above default Brawler, compared to #44 for Link (walking speed is pretty close though). Air speed is also close but Toon Link has the edge there too. I guess Toon Link just feels more flexible to me compared to regular Link because he's smaller and has better options from a dash.

 

[IsmaR]

were you facing clan members using pipe frame / slick / heavyweight
pls confirm or deny

I was switching throughout the whole night, but I did use that combo a few times.

I was thinking the same thing! I wasn't sure if it was actually you or just some person with the same name.

Now that I think about it this is pretty cool. The odds must be pretty low. Also I approve of Roy.

That was my first time willingly using Roy ever, lol. Tryhards/seeing Koopalings everywhere ruined him for me early on.

 

[Rizen]

Ok, room's up.

GGs
The lag always picks up at the end lol

 

[Rickster]

@ Rizen Good games! Your Link has gotten better since last time.

Sorry it started lagging towards the end, our TV receiver decided to start downloading something. I seriously hate it when it does it by itself (at least my parents can TELL me when they start downloading themselves) since it kills the internet so much.

 

[Soul.]

If only they left Toon Link unchanged from Brawl > Smash 4. I miss old BAir and DAir

 

[Latte]

GGs @CPU 3

I had a lot of fun. We have to play again sometime!

 

[Rizen]

@ Rizen Good games! Your Link has gotten better since last time.

Sorry it started lagging towards the end, our TV receiver decided to start downloading something. I seriously hate it when it does it by itself (at least my parents can TELL me when they start downloading themselves) since it kills the internet so much.

Yeah I could tell some games near the end like the Skyloft and Smashville were determined by lag SDs. That was a really fun set still

I'm really hating that nerf to Link's jab cancel. Link does alright until it comes to KOing; then he has to go for hard reads. Jab>Dsmash/grab/Utilt was so useful.
/still salty about the patch

 

[Space Stranger]

My brother hates Tinks lack of bounce from his Dair.

At least it helps me wipe the floor with him!

 

[Rickster]

Yeah I could tell some games near the end like the Skyloft and Smashville were determined by lag SDs. That was a really fun set still

I'm really hating that nerf to Link's jab cancel. Link does alright until it comes to KOing; then he has to go for hard reads. Jab>Dsmash/grab/Utilt was so useful.
/still salty about the patch

Omg I'm about to unplug that d*** receiver, lol. First it ruined my gaming session, and now I can't do anything else because lolnobandwidth.

I don't understand what they did to Link. I kept hearing that you can't do Jab>Stuff anymore, yet you and other Links have still been able to do those on me. I'm confused on what was actually nerfed.

 

[Rizen]

I don't understand what they did to Link. I kept hearing that you can't do Jab>Stuff anymore, yet you and other Links have still been able to do those on me. I'm confused on what was actually nerfed.

Link's jab 1 originally had good IASA and hitstun so you could crouch cancel into most moves at medium-high %s guaranteed. The problem was it had a death combo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWmtA1VCHWY
because the tip hit bubbles hit inward and the hilt hitbubble hit outward so Link could jab1 cancel into jab 1 from medium %s to kill %s than finish with a Dsamsh. I never used this because I predicted it would be patched.
The patch removed all of jab 1's IASA frames so it won't cancel into anything; what should have happened is the tip hitbubble angle should have been changed to prevent the combo but keep the jab cancel>other moves. Other characters have this and Link's jab isn't fast at all.
Link can still jab 2 cancel but it has about 2 frames of advantage and Link's fastest ground move is jab at frame 7 so the opponent can get away or in some cases jab Link before he can react. I use jab 2 cancels but the require a read, where as jab 1 was guaranteed.

Jab 1 when it could cancel was safe on shield so Link could get away if he didn't have the hit confirm. It really helped his terrible CQC game and gave safe kill options; both were Link's Achilles' heel. Now Link gets screwed by shields and has to try laggy moves or reads off projectiles for kills. Like people said, it's back to the Brawl days for Link.

 

[Rickster]

Link's jab 1 originally had good IASA and hitstun so you could crouch cancel into most moves at medium-high %s guaranteed. The problem was it had a death combo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWmtA1VCHWY
because the tip hit bubbles hit inward and the hilt hitbubble hit outward so Link could jab1 cancel into jab 1 from medium %s to kill %s than finish with a Dsamsh. I never used this because I predicted it would be patched.
The patch removed all of jab 1's IASA frames so it won't cancel into anything; what should have happened is the tip hitbubble angle should have been changed to prevent the combo but keep the jab cancel>other moves. Other characters have this and Link's jab isn't fast at all.
Link can still jab 2 cancel but it has about 2 frames of advantage and Link's fastest ground move is jab at frame 7 so the opponent can get away or in some cases jab Link before he can react. I use jab 2 cancels but the require a read, where as jab 1 was guaranteed.

Jab 1 when it could cancel was safe on shield so Link could get away if he didn't have the hit confirm. It really helped his terrible CQC game and gave safe kill options; both were Link's Achilles' heel. Now Link gets screwed by shields and has to try laggy moves or reads off projectiles for kills. Like people said, it's back to the Brawl days for Link.

Oh, now it makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.

EDIT: Users Viewing Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 2)

 

[Berserker.]

If anyone doesn't understand how Manny vs Mayweather went

I think this will help you get the gist of it:

 

[Rizen]

I'm so good at spelling old nursery rhymes (as far as the spell check knows ). Read this out loud quickly:
Marry hat hey lid tell lam ids fleas woes why has know.

 

[Trieste SP]

I just finished watching it. Ah... good ol' boxing.

It was pretty exiting to see them duke it out. Seeing that both of them are pretty much at the end of their careers.
Although at some parts of the match drags out a bit. It was a bit of a shame that one of them just didn't commit.

Congrats to the winner though. I was betting on the loser but he did the best he could.

 

[Alphatron]

Sisters...

I've lost my mojo. Send help. I just can't seem to do anything with Zelda anymore. I can even get away with playing as Dedede. But with Zelda, I wind up having trouble against your typical Roll Glory Captain Falcon player. Have I always just sucked at the game?