Freelance Spy
Smash Journeyman
Seems like you're implying something, I wonder what it could be.
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Official Zelda Patch and Changes Discussion Thread
- Thread starter BJN39
- Start date
AncientCode42
Smash Apprentice
Nobody ever pictured this to happen, finally Zelda's getting dug out of the bottom of the well and has options. I'm liking this Phantom buff, it gives us a reason to use it now. I can see many things coming from this. I really love the windbox on Phantom, it's nice for edgeguarding. That end-lag is also much needed. It even shuts down some recovery moves.
If there's a little bit of distance between you and the opponent, the windbox will carry them even if you charge it a lot. I wonder what this would be like with less charge up.
Hmm. I wonder has this buff effected her Phantom Customs in any way? Namely her Phantom Strike? I wonder what Shield Breaker would do now.
Now if only Sakurai and his team could do something about the move called Dins Fail. Perhaps a hitbox as it travels? o: Also toned down end-lag and have momentum.
I wonder how the U-Tilt buff is, I have to check this out.
If there's a little bit of distance between you and the opponent, the windbox will carry them even if you charge it a lot. I wonder what this would be like with less charge up.
Hmm. I wonder has this buff effected her Phantom Customs in any way? Namely her Phantom Strike? I wonder what Shield Breaker would do now.
Now if only Sakurai and his team could do something about the move called Dins Fail. Perhaps a hitbox as it travels? o: Also toned down end-lag and have momentum.
I wonder how the U-Tilt buff is, I have to check this out.
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Zylach
Smash Ace
Actually, phantom's gained a new hitbox, not just the windbox. The travelling hitbox does 0% and is what actually pushes people into the other hitboxes. Just pause the game as it's travelling through an opponent and you'll see that the opponent enters a hitstun animation which windboxes don't cause. All of the customs have been affected as well losing 5 frames of endlag and gaining this new hitbox so strike is nearly unchanged though it can pull people from behind Zelda which is weird and wonderful. Breaker does actually push shielding opponents into the shield breaking hitbox. The thing about breaker, though, is that the opponent can shield the first hit and roll out of the second meaning it'll still rarely break shields unless the opponent doesn't know about this. Utilt is basically just safer now though the backside hitbox of it now combos into stuff thanks to the endlag reduction. It's fairly gimmicky though since it takes so long to hit an opponent with that backside-hitbox anyway and it can be DI'ed so don't expect to make utilt your new BnB kill setup.Nobody ever pictured this to happen, finally Zelda's getting dug out of the bottom of the well and has options. I'm liking this Phantom buff, it gives us a reason to use it now. I can see many things coming from this. I really love the windbox on Phantom, it's nice for edgeguarding. That end-lag is also much needed. It even shuts down some recovery moves.
If there's a little bit of distance between you and the opponent, the windbox will carry them even if you charge it a lot. I wonder what this would be like with less charge up.
Hmm. I wonder has this buff effected her Phantom Customs in any way? Namely her Phantom Strike? I wonder what Shield Breaker would do now.
Now if only Sakurai and his team could do something about the move called Dins Fail. Perhaps a hitbox as it travels? o: Also toned down end-lag and have momentum.
I wonder how the U-Tile buff is, I have to check this out.
AncientCode42
Smash Apprentice
Oh it did? I didn't notice that. I'll have to use more of it to see for myself. And that's great the the customs at least got benefit from this. And it can pull behind with Strike? I have to try that, that sounds a bit odd. But I'll take what it gives me.
Yeah I ind of figured that about Breaker, too bad. It has potential. Well I kind of hand that in mind considering U-tilt, though it's nice to get a combo game out of it. Thanks for the tips there. I'll keep this in mind.
Erotic&Heretic
Smash Master
With the new hitbox for the Phantom, I managed to gimp Falcon's Up-B through the stage, on Omega Wuhu Island.
I guess that Falcon was somehow going through the stage, but this really surprised me.
This new hitbox is really something to study.
I guess that Falcon was somehow going through the stage, but this really surprised me.
This new hitbox is really something to study.
Katy Parry
The Only Zelda in Indiana
This my Zelda after the patch. I'm not that great, but she feels amazing. I try to really use Phantom, especially reversing it for the angle it can send you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N2a_bW1Q9A
ALSO What about jumping offstage and reversing phantom to charge and start a position to hit certain recoveries...as your falling? you know, so you can level out when to throw it?
Like, Zelda jumps over marth as he gets closer to the edge, she b turns and starts charging phantom
So she basically has a punish ready to his recovery
In fact, I know this works because I did this during a friendly against a Marth
I released phantom as he used Dolphin Slash and it hit him at just the right time to stage spike him
Phantom is good for when your opponent is forced into an option I feel, that's how we should use it to edge guard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N2a_bW1Q9A
ALSO What about jumping offstage and reversing phantom to charge and start a position to hit certain recoveries...as your falling? you know, so you can level out when to throw it?
Like, Zelda jumps over marth as he gets closer to the edge, she b turns and starts charging phantom
So she basically has a punish ready to his recovery
In fact, I know this works because I did this during a friendly against a Marth
I released phantom as he used Dolphin Slash and it hit him at just the right time to stage spike him
Phantom is good for when your opponent is forced into an option I feel, that's how we should use it to edge guard.
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Freelance Spy
Smash Journeyman
By using it offstage pointing in? I'm having trouble gimping by blocking the edge
tsvlink25
Smash Apprentice
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Do you think you can post a replay of this? I think I know what you're talking about, but I'd like to see it work--haven't been able to do this myself so I think I'm doing it wrong.
Erotic&Heretic
Smash Master
The phantom was on the stage, the new hitbox hitted Falcon through the plateform. I should use the new youtube replay system.
Valamway
Smash Apprentice
After these changes, default Phantom might be the best...
What is life.
If only Strike had more killing power, or if Breaker charged as quickly as Strike.
Slash having less endlag than the other two and the full charge going so far with such a strong windbox makes it the best for gimping, spacing, and killing.
What is life.
If only Strike had more killing power, or if Breaker charged as quickly as Strike.
Slash having less endlag than the other two and the full charge going so far with such a strong windbox makes it the best for gimping, spacing, and killing.
Meek Moths
Smash Ace
that's a good thing, customs are bad anyway
meleebrawler
Smash Hero
Strike is still good for edgeguarding with it's high base knockback semi-spike, along with it's charge speed and high damage.
Macchiato
Smash Hero
oh hey aren't you the mewtwo/megaman I faced on Smashladder today?
If yes then, good games.
Isn't Strike the one that also can pull people from behind Zelda now? That could be good against those who like to roll behind us to avoid it.
Now...if only I could unlock that one instead of Breaker for the 264739th time.
Now...if only I could unlock that one instead of Breaker for the 264739th time.
meleebrawler
Smash Hero
Yeah that was me. That Halberd counterpick sure worked out for my Mewtwo. And some of those elevators surprisingly didn't.
Macchiato
Smash Hero
Today I was playing against someone and the midcharge of the phantom semispiked them and they were in hitstun... the whole time after they got hit.
This happened to me in Training. I thought I was just imagining the semispike.
Idk what caused it though. Maybe that 0% hitbox has some glitchiness to it.
Erotic&Heretic
Smash Master
I also got the semi-spike on the Level 2 charge.
Isn't it when you someone below the phantom? That's what I remember, but I can't recall well.
Isn't it when you someone below the phantom? That's what I remember, but I can't recall well.
Katy Parry
The Only Zelda in Indiana
Yes, I would like to know about this semi-spike thing haha.
Oidsco
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2015
- Messages
- 3
Saw this and signed up just to say that yea I've got the semi-spike too. I thought I was imagining things! I landed it on a Sonic that was jumping back on-stage. He fell down in hit-stun for a moment before being able to up-b, but it was too late at that point.
Next time I'll record it
Next time I'll record it
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Zylach
Smash Ace
I think I've gotten that semi-spike once at minimum charge. It's weird. Also, I still think that strike is the better pick overall. It still benefits from this new bonus hitbox since it starts behind Zelda now. I actually hit a Ganon that rolled behind me with that hitbox. Granted, it did no damage but I didn't get punished so that's helpful.
Katy Parry
The Only Zelda in Indiana
So is it better than just using Nayrus to punish the spot dodge?
Or are you saying the attack is SAFER than Slash
Zylach
Smash Ace
It's no Nayru's in terms of punishing rolls and spotdodges. I'm just saying it's safer against rolls than slash is. Granted, the area that it affects behind Zelda isn't tremendous (which is why Nayru's is still better against rolls) but it can be more effective in covering her backside than slash.
Chromfirmed
Smash Journeyman
I feel that Zelda is banned. Zelda should be a bit more powerful, thanks to her magic.
cwjakesteel
Smash Apprentice
Woaah! My boy Zelda got buffed! Definitely gonna pick her back up. (I actually dropped her because I would always screw up my recovery with her)
what's all this FAF and 40/40/30 business mean?
what's all this FAF and 40/40/30 business mean?
ZombieBran
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2014
- Messages
- 1,645
FAF means First Active Frame where you can act out of the move. Lower numbers are better. Basically less endlag for Utilt (and new possible combos and strings for Zelda!)
Numbers like 30/40 could either mean base knockback and knockback growth or bone IDs for a move, not sure which one you mean.
In the later case it just means jab is more reliable. In the former, Phantom's "windbox" is no longer a bad blindspot.
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cwjakesteel
Smash Apprentice
Ah, okay. Thannks
Zylach
Smash Ace
The 40/40/30 you specified is WKB for jab. Basically, the higher numbers now mean that jab links better with itself so opponents don't fall out. I've been told that WKB stands for weight based knockback but I'm not actually sure myself. I just know what it does, not what the name is lol. Everything else listed is either specific frame data determining the length of hitboxes and stuff or hitbox data determining where it is in relation to Zelda's hurtbox (bone data) and the size of the hitbox (x,y,z values and other size values). Numbers for nerds 
evmaxy54
Smash Champion
Weight Based Knockback is p much the set knockback of a moveThe 40/40/30 you specified is WKB for jab. Basically, the higher numbers now mean that jab links better with itself so opponents don't fall out. I've been told that WKB stands for weight based knockback but I'm not actually sure myself. I just know what it does, not what the name is lol. Everything else listed is either specific frame data determining the length of hitboxes and stuff or hitbox data determining where it is in relation to Zelda's hurtbox (bone data) and the size of the hitbox (x,y,z values and other size values). Numbers for nerds
Zylach
Smash Ace
Then what's the W in WKB?
evmaxy54
Smash Champion
Weight
Because whatever the damage the opponent is at isn't a factor for set knockback (for example, if we hit Rosa with one hit of our Nair, she pops upwards, but the distance she pops up is the same when she's at 0% as it is at 999%) but a character's weight is (hitting with the same hitbox on Rosa & Bowser will cause them to pop up at different heights)
Hence why it's called Weight Base Knockback or Weight Dependent Knockback.
It's used in multi-hit moves so that they could connect easier
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Zylach
Smash Ace
Thanks for clearing that up. I knew what WKB was, I just didn't know what the W stood for
Katy Parry
The Only Zelda in Indiana
Yeah, I had no idea either. Thanks!
I'm so proud that the gorls here are learning and spreading the knowledge. It warms my heart :'^)
Also since we've most likely found everything (What with the mastercore now even having FAF data whaaaat?) I might re-close this thread until the next patch soon. It probably won't be more than 2 months if another gets released.
Also since we've most likely found everything (What with the mastercore now even having FAF data whaaaat?) I might re-close this thread until the next patch soon. It probably won't be more than 2 months if another gets released.
You know what time it is gorls! Zelda prayer circle time! May the thread be rejuvenated for patch 1.1.1! (That's that number right?)
Shrokatii
Smash Lord
Here's my hopes for the next patch:
+ You can now store Phantom Slash
+ Back throw knockback increased
+ Fair and bair auto cancel from a shorthop
+ Banned from online play
+ Sourspot lightning kicks deal slightly more damage
+ Din's Fire removed
- Banned from online play
+ You can now store Phantom Slash
+ Back throw knockback increased
+ Fair and bair auto cancel from a shorthop
+ Banned from online play
+ Sourspot lightning kicks deal slightly more damage
+ Din's Fire removed
- Banned from online play
Macchiato
Smash Hero
These are things that imo would make her mid
More KBG on Bthrow to the point where it's a reliable kill throw
Less start up and endlag on Ftilt
No Deadzone on Ftilt
Less lag on Fair/Bair
SHAC Fair/Bair
Increase Fsmash endlag by 20 frames
More KBG on Bthrow to the point where it's a reliable kill throw
Less start up and endlag on Ftilt
No Deadzone on Ftilt
Less lag on Fair/Bair
SHAC Fair/Bair
Increase Fsmash endlag by 20 frames
LRodC
Smashing With Mewtwo and Cloud
In terms of miscellaneous buffs, I'd like:
Less lag and better control of Din's Fire
Lightning Kicks that are not punishable on sourspot hit; Less end lag and landing lag
Less end lag on Phantom Slash; faster charge time
Less landing lag on neutral air
Forward tilt blind spot fix (how was this not addressed yet?) and overall sped up in frames
Down smash knockback/hitbox improvements (would send at semi spike angle similar to WFT's)
Less lag and better control of Din's Fire
Lightning Kicks that are not punishable on sourspot hit; Less end lag and landing lag
Less end lag on Phantom Slash; faster charge time
Less landing lag on neutral air
Forward tilt blind spot fix (how was this not addressed yet?) and overall sped up in frames
Down smash knockback/hitbox improvements (would send at semi spike angle similar to WFT's)
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