Official Zelda Patch and Changes Discussion Thread

[QNando]

This may be placebo, but it feels like the waiting time before you can spawn another phantom after someone destroys it was increased.

 

[Meru.]

This may be placebo, but it feels like the waiting time before you can spawn another phantom after someone destroys it was increased.

It was increased in the patch before.

 

[ZombieBran]

This may be placebo, but it feels like the waiting time before you can spawn another phantom after someone destroys it was increased.

Sakutroll decided that Phantom with a tiny endlag decrease would be obviously broken unless balanced with a 3 second addition to respawn time.

 

[BJN39]

Sakutroll decided that Phantom with a tiny endlag decrease would be obviously broken unless balanced with a 3 second addition to respawn time.

Good heavens you're forgetting about the broken extra 1/30 of a second the phantom stays out after attacking GET IT TOGETHER GORL.

 

[ZombieBran]

Good heavens you're forgetting about the broken extra 1/30 of a second the phantom stays out after attacking GET IT TOGETHER GORL.

This educating sass has me seriously thinking about the way Sakurai balances Zelda, this good patch excluded.

Miniscule buffs. Serial killer level specific buffs.

 

[Agecaf]

On the D-throw to N-air problem, can't we just D-throw -> press back (while in d-throw animation) -> nair? I think peach uses a similar trick to connect D-throw -> umbrella.

 

[Meek Moths]

On the D-throw to N-air problem, can't we just D-throw -> press back (while in d-throw animation) -> nair? I think peach uses a similar trick to connect D-throw -> umbrella.

you can quickly turn around and use nair, but even then the back part will connect. but if they di all the way away from you, you will hit with the front part.

or maybe do a perfect pivot after dhtrow.

but who needs nair when you can bair or fair after dthrow

 

[Meek Moths]

Guys, help me confirm whether these changes are real or not pls. im using the 3ds version atm

fthrow, bthrow and uthrow have a new visual effect, the spark looks bigger and is a bit pink (i noticed this on the pictochat stage because it's got white background)

uptilt has better hitboxes, i've been able to catch rolls more reliably with it. they seem a tad bigger but not as it having a better range, but being more inside of zelda. i no longer have 2 ds so i can't test this side by side

and last one, it seems the disappearing of farore can be di'd more. most of the time when people di'd it, the reappearing at least hit them with the weak sourspot , but now it doesn't hit them at all sometiems. this of course happened pre-patch sometimes, but i've noticed it happen a lot today.

 

[BJN39]

I don't know all her changes in the patch yet as I haven't played much of it. I got back from the tourney at midnight last night (We didn't have the patch installed for the tourney) and played around with the new characters for a bit.

Shameless cross-quote, but if you actually don't know her changes yet gorl, you can find the only identifiable 1.0.8 Zelda changes here in the OP! :D

 

[Zylach]

I checked this thread before I even started up the game to test anything. I trust you guys :D

 

[RedBeanPorridge]

It seems like they did a bit more than switch nair's hitboxes around. It feels like nair's front hitbox now has a slight vacuum effect which makes each hit connect more reliably. It also sucks opponents into the front hitbox when initially hit with the back hitbox more easily (more clearly seen with larger characters like DK).

I don't have a version pre-patch to confirm these so can somebody please confirm this?

 

[Meek Moths]

It seems like they did a bit more than switch nair's hitboxes around. It feels like nair's front hitbox now has a slight vacuum effect which makes each hit connect more reliably. It also sucks opponents into the front hitbox when initially hit with the back hitbox more easily (more clearly seen with larger characters like DK).

I don't have a version pre-patch to confirm these so can somebody please confirm this?

yes you are right, the backpart sometimes pulls them to the front.

rarely, they can evenfall out of the back hit but it's uncommon

 

[Zylach]

I'm testing out how to utilize the nair changes and am finding them to be kind nerf-y. I'm used to having our guaranteed dthrow>nair do 15%-17% but turning around just before inputting the nair slows it down just enough that training mode doesn't even call it a true combo anymore. Instead, using the same input as before the patch, we end up with 13% at most. That means we don't get as much reward off of our grabs anymore since uthrow combos aren't actually combos on most of the cast compared to dthrow combos which are true on most of the cast. If uthrow combos were just as guaranteed as dthrow, then I'd be fine with this since our damage output could be even greater with uthrow>utilt>usmash or uthrow>charged usmash.

At the same time, the extra damage in the front of nair is helpful in so many other ways but I'm not sure if those outweigh the problem it gives us on following up on our throws.

 

[Airswimmer]

I'm testing out how to utilize the nair changes and am finding them to be kind nerf-y. I'm used to having our guaranteed dthrow>nair do 15%-17% but turning around just before inputting the nair slows it down just enough that training mode doesn't even call it a true combo anymore. Instead, using the same input as before the patch, we end up with 13% at most. That means we don't get as much reward off of our grabs anymore since uthrow combos aren't actually combos on most of the cast compared to dthrow combos which are true on most of the cast. If uthrow combos were just as guaranteed as dthrow, then I'd be fine with this since our damage output could be even greater with uthrow>utilt>usmash or uthrow>charged usmash.

At the same time, the extra damage in the front of nair is helpful in so many other ways but I'm not sure if those outweigh the problem it gives us on following up on our throws.

I have to agree with this.
Not having a good guaranteed follow up out of a throw hurts Zelda a lot due to her low mobility and mostly slow attacks. Sure you can still pummel and F/U/Bthrow, but you're still losing out on some percentage.
Couple with this the main advantage of the new Nair being somewhat sketchy and other times completely useless. You're not going to get a follow up from a fast falled Nair on a short character like Kirby or Jigglypuff, and even medium height characters like Mario sometimes only get hit once and fly into the air rather than stay locked to the ground.

 

[BJN39]

Ahem:

gorl, GORLS. I asked Aerodrome frame data goddess if he could check our aerial landing lags, due to multiple other bad characters having gotten landing lag buffs.



We got landing lag buffs. We got landing lag buffs. (Repeated for clarity.)


All three NAir, UAir, and DAir got landing lag reductions of 3 frames, bringing them to 19, 19, and 18 frames respectively.

 

[Freelance Spy]

If you hit them with the hitboxes in front of Zelda then yes, it helps A TON. At mid % it starts comboing into Dtilt, Utilt, Usmash, and most importantly, Elevator. Heck, there may be even more things it can lead into.

I'm interested if Jab or Grab can ever work...doubt it though.

People always DI my elevator tho, I'd love to start conditioning with usmash tho.

 

[ZombieBran]

The newly confirmed landing lag buffs makes me so proud of Sakurai this patch.
a few more frames could be shaved off but I'll take these buffs with gratefulness.

 

[BJN39]

So was my prediction of Zelda buffs right, or right? I did say b/c everything was calling ha bottom 5 she'd be noticeT.

 

[ZombieBran]

So was my prediction of Zelda buffs right, or right? I did say b/c everything was calling ha bottom 5 she'd be noticeT.

It only took him three games and like 5 patches

 

[Freelance Spy]

Glad I used her since brawl. And Marth...

I think my dual mains will finally start winning.

 

[Zylach]

Checking nair's properties again, it feels more like a tradeoff. Yeah, it's a little more difficult to maximize our damage output off of throws now (I'm actually dthrowing to uairs now so my uair will be stale as all hell but it does more damage than dthrow>nair and is guaranteed unlike uthrow>utilt/usmash), but the landing lag reduction and possible hitstun bonus off of that extra 1% on our front does indeed give us a guaranteed setup into the elevator. I posted a video in the Hyrule Duels thread of me dtilting a ZSS into a SH FF nair into an elevator. She DI's correctly and lives but I didn't that combo several more times the same night and got kills with it consistently at around 80% like we ought to. We can followup with most of our attacks after a FF nair too. Utilt combos, usmash which now kills as well just later than the elevator, dtilt combos, Nayru's Love.

So, we may not get as much damage off of our throws now but it gives us a guaranteed setup into our kill moves! Finally!

 

[evmaxy54]

Checking nair's properties again, it feels more like a tradeoff. Yeah, it's a little more difficult to maximize our damage output off of throws now (I'm actually dthrowing to uairs now so my uair will be stale as all hell but it does more damage than dthrow>nair and is guaranteed unlike uthrow>utilt/usmash), but the landing lag reduction and possible hitstun bonus off of that extra 1% on our front does indeed give us a guaranteed setup into the elevator. I posted a video in the Hyrule Duels thread of me dtilting a ZSS into a SH FF nair into an elevator. She DI's correctly and lives but I didn't that combo several more times the same night and got kills with it consistently at around 80% like we ought to. We can followup with most of our attacks after a FF nair too. Utilt combos, usmash which now kills as well just later than the elevator, dtilt combos, Nayru's Love.

So, we may not get as much damage off of our throws now but it gives us a guaranteed setup into our kill moves! Finally!

Uthrow -> Usmash/Utilt is guaranteed on 4/5 characters respectfully

Spoiler: without rage

Uthrow -> Usmash (26% combo)

Sheik: 1-7%
Fox: 0-20% (15-20% does 24% instead)
Falcon: 11-12%
Greninja: 6-17%

Uthrow -> Utilt (18%)

Sheik: 1-21%
Fox: 0-20%
Falcon: 11-24%
Greninja: 6-23%
Falco: 5-18%

I also made a long ass post in TGFF regarding possible follow-ups from a FF Nair (even included FH Dair -> FF Nair combos cuz they are swegy AF) =3

 

[Freelance Spy]

Uthrow -> Usmash/Utilt is guaranteed on 4/5 characters respectfully

Spoiler: without rage

Uthrow -> Usmash (26% combo)

Sheik: 1-7%
Fox: 0-20% (15-20% does 24% instead)
Falcon: 11-12%
Greninja: 6-17%

Uthrow -> Utilt (18%)

Sheik: 1-21%
Fox: 0-20%
Falcon: 11-24%
Greninja: 6-23%
Falco: 5-18%

I also made a long *** post in TGFF regarding possible follow-ups from a FF Nair (even included FH Dair -> FF Nair combos cuz they are swegy AF) =3

Yo, those uthrow combos are at 0% right?

Also could you link your long @$$ post here for easy access? More threads should link together...

 

[evmaxy54]

Yo, those uthrow combos are at 0% right?

Also could you link your long @$$ post here for easy access? More threads should link together...

No. The percent ranges they are confirmed at are in the spoiler

Also: http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...search-repository.370698/page-7#post-19423977

 

[Daidarapochi]

Uthrow -> Usmash/Utilt is guaranteed on 4/5 characters respectfully

Spoiler: without rage

Uthrow -> Usmash (26% combo)

Sheik: 1-7%
Fox: 0-20% (15-20% does 24% instead)
Falcon: 11-12%
Greninja: 6-17%

Uthrow -> Utilt (18%)

Sheik: 1-21%
Fox: 0-20%
Falcon: 11-24%
Greninja: 6-23%
Falco: 5-18%

I also made a long *** post in TGFF regarding possible follow-ups from a FF Nair (even included FH Dair -> FF Nair combos cuz they are swegy AF) =3

Was it tested on Roy yet, since he is also a fast faller?

 

[Rickster]

Ahem:

AHHHHHHHHHHH

I must be dreaming omg I'm so happy!

LONG LIVE ZELDA

 

[ZombieBran]

So, we may not get as much damage off of our throws now but it gives us a guaranteed setup into our kill moves! Finally!

I think this may have been intended too. Falco was changed to be someone who actually does prefer the air. Maybe Sakurai wanted Zelda to be closer to her EXTREME KILLER design.

Or maybe Sakurai just wanted to nerf nair because we use it all the time but he ended up buffing some aspects of it.

 

[Zylach]

I think this may have been intended too. Falco was changed to be someone who actually does prefer the air. Maybe Sakurai wanted Zelda to be closer to her EXTREME KILLER design.

Or maybe Sakurai just wanted to nerf nair because we use it all the time but he ended up buffing some aspects of it.

With all the buffs going around, maybe it wasn't Sakurai at all. Is there some kind of mutiny going on at Nintendo right now? I mean... Greninja got buffed! That can't be Sakurai's doing.

 

[AncientCode42]

This makes me so happy to see Zelda getting the attention and fixes she finally deserves. I mean all of her Ariels got buffs, this was a desperate need of patching and it got exactly what was desired. Now to just lower Fair and Bairs end lag, decrease Elevator and Phantom's Endlag and more range on Up and Down Smashes and she would be perfect! XD I wouldn't mind her slow speed as long as she had something to make up for it.

Though I am going to miss Love Boosting. D: But at least there's still Love jump. XD

 

[Darktundra]

Nair needs to have less landing lag around 15 to be more precise and have no sourspots. As demanding as it sounds nair is our 2nd safest and most offensive option in the air and comes out on frame 6 with 11 percent in the front and 7 percent from behind Zelda. A little exploration taught me that nair is slow compared to the rest of the cast with less kill potential and a small combo potential window. Falco's nair is frame 3 has 15 frames of landing lag and has no sourspot doing 11 percent from both sides. Part of me is waiting for patch 1.0.9 maybe zelda will get attention.

 

[Funtroon]

Can someone please explain to me how the changes to her nair damage properties help Zelda?

 

[Rickster]

Can someone please explain to me how the changes to her nair damage properties help Zelda?

1. Hitting with the front now does 11 instead of 7. Since the front hits are stronger, it has ever so slightly more stun, which makes falling Nair combos more consistent.

2. Just SH Nairing your opponent will do more damage (unless your back is to them).

3. Most importantly, it has 3 frames less landing lag. This opens up all kinds of true combos you can do with falling Nairs. Useful ones include
Nair>Dtilt
Nair>Dsmash
Nair>Utilt
Nair>Elevator
Nair>Usmash

Elevator and Usmash are the most significant, since it's a true combo kill setup (and Elevator and Usmash are very powerful, especially with rage). Dtilt is good for early combos and for setting up for other moves (namely kicks and Uair at high %). Utilt is probably the least useful since it hardly true combos. Dsmash is for KOing by the ledge or gimping.

EDIT: Please keep in mind that Nair>Usmash may not work on short characters.

 

[evmaxy54]

Was it tested on Roy yet, since he is also a fast faller?

Maybe

But there's no way in hell I'm doing now

This is my time to jam to pop punk while slightly pissed

 

[PUK]

The zelda and MK buff make me happy.
And people still think zelda is the worst character, pls sakurai and thanks reddit

 

[evmaxy54]

Was it tested on Roy yet, since he is also a fast faller?

Uthrow -> Utilt is a true combo on Roy from 6-21%. Usmash doesn't work

 

[Meek Moths]

this is looking pretty good so far

 

[Daidarapochi]

The zelda and MK buff make me happy.
And people still think zelda is the worst character, pls sakurai and thanks reddit

People's rare encounters with zelda were probably for glory FW spammers or people who stay on stage the whole time.

 

[Dihan]

Have the reflecting properties of Nayru's Love been looked into? I'm pretty sure it's most likely the dreaded placebo effect but projectiles feel faster once reflected.

I'm loving her nair combos. Now if only she had a stronger approach.

 

[BJN39]

So since we've pretty much found all of the changes for Zelda in 1.0.8, and it's been a while since the update, I'm going to close this thread until the next (If there is one.) patch~

 

[BJN39]

Thread reopened to be ready in the case that patch 1.10 has character balance changes! Update hype ~ Watch out for your replays!

Real talk, is it 1.1, or 1.0.10?