Official Zelda Patch and Changes Discussion Thread

[JigglyZelda003]

please ninty dont delete my replays again lol

 

[DoctorDub]

please ninty dont delete my replays again lol

At least if they do, we'll know that there is a chance that Zelda may have gotten better.
I still get a bad feeling they'll nerf Up-B tho

 

[JigglyZelda003]

At least if they do, we'll know that there is a chance that Zelda may have gotten better.
I still get a bad feeling they'll nerf Up-B tho

if they nerf it to buff everything else i'll take it, but if not then leave Zelda's hail mary alone :v

 

[ZombieBran]

If they nerf FW, they'll have to nerf every other high risk/reward upB, of which there are many.

 

[Rickster]

Would a minor Elevator nerf really be that bad? As long as they made up for it by buffing a ton of other stuff. I mean we would lose our early KO potential but we would still have Usmash...ahhh but I love the Elevator so much.

If only we could have both.

 

[evmaxy54]

If we lose the Elevator I'm dropping Zelda js gonna have to pick up the hardest character in the game instead smh

 

[BJN39]

Would a minor Elevator nerf really be that bad?

yes


I mean Zelda is so inherently bad.

At least she has multiple hella hype kills.

Besides, yes Ike was 'buffed' (Probably the largest buff total in patch history atm. That or Shulk.) but it was only a little for a few moves. There would need to be a. Lot. Of compensation imo for me to even consider a FW nerf. But Sakurai has never buffed that much of one character, so what makes Zelda the one to buff?

 

[JigglyZelda003]

If they nerf FW, they'll have to nerf every other high risk/reward upB, of which there are many.

Elevator is like the only high risk high reward upB, everyone else can fast fall as soon as the animation is up but Zelda is stuck waiting. i'd give up Elevator for the Shulk/Ike treatment buffs plus some, but if not then leave it alone.

maybe if Sakuratena is being resonable she'll nerf Elevator KO power but make it unDIable from the first hit. sure no more 50% KOs but at least when know when they go up they aren't getting off until the top floor...

 

[Rickster]

Ehh they probably won't even touch it. It survived all the other patches, after all.

Probably will just get landing lag buffs again. I'm personally hoping for the FAF of kicks to be reduced by like 10 frames, and maybe even a Dtilt damage increase. I mean, dtilt does as much as a flub kick. A flub Lagning Kick. Heck, it's weaker than Sheik's. It should do 5-6% (5.5 works too) imo.

Of course if there isn't a balance adjustment then this is pointless, lol.

 

[evmaxy54]

Maintenance starts in 2 minutes http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/network/en_na/network_status.jsp

 

[Rickster]

EVERYONE PRAY. PRAY AS HARD AS YOU CAN.

 

[DoctorDub]

I'M NOT A RELIGIOUS MAN, BUT BELIEVE ME. I'M ****ING PRAYING.

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

Jab now does 8% from 6%
Dtilt does 5.5% or something like that now (1% buff?)
Utilt feels faster (needs testing)
I'm not sure if Bair/Fair got less lag, I never used them unless I knew they'd land, so I'm not familiar with how laggy they usually are (but still obvi laggy).
All of her specials feel the same (unfortunatley).

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Jab does 8% now if all three hits connect...so it does like 2.7% now cause a single hit registers as 3% lol

EDIT: Ninja'd by Donuts, but yeah Dtilt does like 5.5% now. i feel like Uair is easier to hit with but that may be me.

 

[evmaxy54]

Jab now does 8% from 6%
Dtilt does 5.5% or something like that now (1% buff?)
Utilt feels faster (needs testing)
I'm not sure if Bair/Fair got less lag, I never used them unless I knew they'd land, so I'm not familiar with how laggy they usually are (but still obvi laggy).
All of her specials feel the same (unfortunatley).

Phantom pushes opponent back even at point blank

Utilt, Fair & Bair feel the same tho

 

[DoctorDub]

Oh god, yeah. Phantom's windbox feels mad now.

 

[Suicidal_Donuts]

Phantom pushes opponent back even at point blank

Utilt, Fair & Bair feel the same tho

I'm trying really hard to get the dead zone on Phantom, but you seem to be right, looks like they at least did something to make it less useless. Yay, now I can casually throw out a Phantom that won't pull an actual phantom (bad joke) and go through my opponent. I wonder how effective this will actually be.

 

[Rickster]

So like

I released a fully charged Phantom right in front of Dark Pit by the ledge

It missed but the windbox made him FLY AWAY.

Also Utilt def has a better FAF. I got Utilt (front)>Utilt>Nair to be a 7 hit combo on Dark Pit.

EDIT: Wtf he just tripped from the windbox...

Also this might've been in before but if you're right your opponent and you Jab them, they fly at a much lower angle. If you space it better, you get the usual angle. I bet this WAS in butbthe increased damage made it more noticeable.

 

[Meru.]

Even though Peach is my main I tested my second Zelda first lawl

Phantom's buff windbox is real! At low charges the windbox will carry them into the hitbox even at point blank range, at higher charges they will not get hit by the hitbox but they will be carried away by the windbox so you're safe. If there's a little bit of distance between you and the opponent, the windbox will carry them even if you charge it a lot. This move may actually be usable now!!

Has Dtilt > Uair always been a combo at 100% on Mario? If not it is now, until Dtilt sends him too high (at about 130%).

Jab does 8% as mentioned above.

Not much else I can find so far.

 

[Langston777]

dtilt > uair? damn. i think i just read somewhere her aerial speed got buffed too which would totally help with chasing down DI. can't confirm it though.

i really wanted to see utilt get faster start up and nair have more disjointed range.

 

[Rickster]

Even though Peach is my main I tested my second Zelda first lawl

Phantom's buff windbox is real! At low charges the windbox will carry them into the hitbox even at point blank range, at higher charges they will not get hit by the hitbox but they will be carried away by the windbox so you're safe. If there's a little bit of distance between you and the opponent, the windbox will carry them even if you charge it a lot. This move may actually be usable now!!

Has Dtilt > Uair always been a combo at 100% on Mario? If not it is now, until Dtilt sends him too high (at about 130%).

Jab does 8% as mentioned above.

Not much else I can find so far.

Dtilt>Uair could combo before, but it was very strict on timing and they had to actually DI towards you. Maybe it's easier now?

Oh and apparently the windbox counts as a hitbox now in training. I got a 3 hit combo from a full charge Phantom, and a 1 hit 0% combo when it flew last him.

 

[Nickat98]

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/diff-128-144/
Found a data dump for the update

 

[Darktundra]

Ariel din's fire landing lag drastically reduced
Or a wider AC window

 

[Rickster]

Ariel din's fire landing lag drastically reduced
Or a wider AC window

You're right! I just tested it and the landing lag definitely is less.

But it's still Din's so

Or maybe it is the same...ugh idk.

 

[Toadallstar2]

Yayy more buffs. This is very exciting. I ran here instantly LOL. I too was scared of teleport nerf.

 

[Rebel13]

Posted this in the social too (I'm new, go figure) but significant change to Down Air. Much bigger sweetspot and much less knockback. It wouldn't pop up grounded ROB (my testing buddy) until 50%. Also it true comboed into upsmash at like 70%, which is awesome, but it does mean Dair to Uair might not work until later. still testing.

Also I was about to post the landing lag thing on dins but you beat me to it

 

[Valamway]

maybe even a Dtilt damage increase. I mean, dtilt does as much as a flub kick. A flub Lagning Kick. Heck, it's weaker than Sheik's. It should do 5-6% (5.5 works too) imo.

Are you a WIZARD?

 

[Rickster]

Posted this in the social too (I'm new, go figure) but significant change to Down Air. Much bigger sweetspot and much less knockback. It wouldn't pop up grounded ROB (my testing buddy) until 50%. Also it true comboed into upsmash at like 70%, which is awesome, but it does mean Dair to Uair might not work until later. still testing.

Also I was about to post the landing lag thing on dins but you beat me to it

I really hope that Dair thing is just placebo...her spike is one of her best moves offstage, and a KB decrease would mean it's much less deadly...

Are you a WIZARD?

I seriously can't believe that actually happened LOL.

 

[MOI-ARI]

So yeah the best buff is Phantom.

That wind box finally fixed it's (fullycharged) stupid blindspot and uncharged pushes people behind you xD
Also full charged/Flash Charged it registers 3 hits in Training mode, the first new hit trips them if they wont sheild time :D

And on top off that if you get them at distance with charged Phantom, and they don't perfect sheild, It flat out breaks it!
pffft wtf, no it don't. xD I swore i was landing it just a moment ago...oh dear me...

Faster Utilt is bomb af.

Hey also Custom Phantom moves have the fixed hitbox. So thats cool...

 

[Rebel13]

I really hope that Dair thing is just placebo...her spike is one of her best moves offstage, and a KB decrease would mean it's much less deadly...

I seriously can't believe that actually happened LOL.

I'm really confident this isn't just placebo, but I actually think it's a buff. I can now dair almost right next to my opponent and get the sweetspot, and it still has enough hitstun so I don't get punished. It's probably a thing to do with knockback scaling. Also combo's into itself if they miss the tech (we greninja now?) and Ftilt/Utilt/Upsmash much more consistently.

Forget this. The placebo got me hard. I did get better at landing the sweetspots, though

 

[MOI-ARI]

Phantom also has less endlag? whaaaa?

I can confirm this. Except i can't because i can't record any of it :<

 

[BJN39]

Some things I'd like to highlight on 1.1 buffs:

• The Jab angle edits actually cause it to force people airborne more often, due to the middle hitbox now hitting up/in, which causes opponents to be hit at 45° more often by the final hit instead of like, 0°, which increases the consistency for better followups. :3 Not to mention damage increase directly translates into more hitstun, which helps combos as well.

• The same damage thingy applies to Dtilt as well, so Dtilt should be a little better at comboing into things overall. :D

 

[Funtroon]

Can someone explain to me what they changed about phantom? And can it actually be a useful move in the neutral?

 

[PUK]

I can pretty much confirm the utilt lag buff. I would say one or two iasa frame.
Also the suspected phantom lag reduction is possible.

I will stay with u on direct from the capitole.

 

[Rickster]

Can someone explain to me what they changed about phantom? And can it actually be a useful move in the neutral?

They basically made the windbox bigger and stronger, which means the move won't whiff at point blank. It's easier to just try it out.

Also we MIGHT have slightly less endlag but we can't confirm yet.

EDIT: Yeah Utilt's FAF (first actionable frame) went from 33 to 30. So 3 frames less endlag.

 

[LRodC]

The Phantom Slash buff is really nice. It really needed that wind box to make it a much more safe move to use and I'll definitely incorporate it more into my play now. Down tilt and jab buffs are nice too even if they aren't game changers.

 

[PUK]

Placebo number one: nayru's last hitbox reachs further. Please someone deconfirm.

 

[Meek Moths]

the IASA on uptilt means that it has more guaranteed followups doesn't it? this is all i've wanted. phantom is geat too, finally useable.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I also definitely feel the phantom having less ending lag. And that's cool!

And the Windbox is usable now!

 

[PUK]

Phantom is confirmed. I tested it and his sword is lower (in his recovery animation) when zelda can act again.