Official Zelda Patch and Changes Discussion Thread

[Erotic&Heretic]

Also, not sure about what I'm going to say, but I managed to counter Ganondorf's down B with the Upsmash, but only the last hit.

So MAYBE a range increase, but not sure at all.

 

[Meru.]

Are people sure about Utilt? Dantarion's file dump only has Jab and Dtilt listed (it doesn't include projectiles which is why Phantom isn't listed). Utilt isn't a projectile or anyting of the sort so I see no reason why it shouldn't be listed.

EDIT: never mind, it seems ending lag also isn't included in the dumps.

 

[Meek Moths]

Are people sure about Utilt? Dantarion's file dump only has Jab and Dtilt listed (it doesn't include projectiles which is why Phantom isn't listed). Utilt isn't a projectile or anyting of the sort so I see no reason why it shouldn't be listed.

EDIT: never mind, it seems ending lag also isn't included in the dumps.

i was wondering the exact same thing

and then i realized the exact same thing

 

[Darktundra]

Not to throw out placebos but can someone confirm f-tilt having lowered IASA/FAF?
And I feel that lightning kicks got some new attributes like additional shield stun and damage.
It would be great if this is true because that will give us safer landing options and make opponents have to perfect shield.
Omg that going to be a challenge

 

[Valamway]

I've never had a placebo effect before, but I'm not sure if this is real or not:
The IASA of Nair feels significantly late to me now.

The autocancel window is the same, but my muscle memory for buffering a jump and dair out of nair does not properly buffer the jump.
So either I'm really early now for no reason, or it did actually change.

EDIT: I swear I remember being able to midair jump before touching the ground after a SHNair.
I can't do that after the update.

 

[Re4gNarsil]

I'm sure someone has mentioned this, but just in case it hasn't been brought up d-air sourspot is stronger (5 vs 4%), and seems to have better KB as well.

 

[BJN39]

I'm sure someone has mentioned this, but just in case it hasn't been brought up d-air sourspot is stronger (5 vs 4%), and seems to have better KB as well.

There have always actually been two different sour-spots on DAir, depending on where you hit with it. The lower one does 4%, and the upper one does 5% and is slightly stronger.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

So... does this do enough to help Zelda, with what we currently know? For that matter, what DO we currently know? Is there a compiled list somewhere?

 

[Freelance Spy]

Nair seems different, it looked like themagic was closer to Zelda's body and her hand pokes out of the effect slightly.

Then again I haven't slept...

 

[Katy Parry]

I can't beli

So... does this do enough to help Zelda, with what we currently know? For that matter, what DO we currently know? Is there a compiled list somewhere?

These buffs are bigger than last patch in terms of all around ness, which is what she needs. Phantom now being useful means Phantom Bouncing will prove much more useful, as well reverse phantoms.

 

[BJN39]

So... does this do enough to help Zelda, with what we currently know? For that matter, what DO we currently know? Is there a compiled list somewhere?

The OP here has a compiled list of all confirmed changes for Zelda in 1.1.0, as well as all Zelda changes from the previous patches.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

...I looked there. Apparently I didn't look well enough though since I didn't see the info there. Sorry for the oversight, and thank you BJN39. And you too, Ethan. I'll give Zelda another try.

 

[Frinckles]

Hay hay. Big reader of this specific board and just now made an account, hello Zeldas! .
Really excited about the Zelda changes, though I'm not sure how this affects her in regards to other characters. B-reversed Phantoms are incredible and I can't wait to see what you folks cook up with it as far as AT's are concerned.
A few questions:
-There are quite a few lists flying around / data dumps but I had heard that DAIR knock-back was reduced so it can easily combo into up air / up smash, is this true?
-Has the end lag / frames on Fair / Bair been changed at all (in this, or recent patches?) Certainly felt faster -- sorry to be "that placebo-guy." (Edit: Just read the previous patch notes at the bottom of the OP, thanks!)
-Are we still waiting for more information to come back from the friendly data miners on Zelda or are they finished?

P.S. bonus question: Dair knockback reduction was placebo correct?

 

[BJN39]

I can now say with certainty that DAir didn't get any changes to its KB.

http://opensa.dantarion.com/s4/raw/144/zelda.html

This is most of the data for Zelda in 1.1, and DAir's data remains unchanged between 1.0.8 and 1.1 here. It didn't get any KB alterations before this either.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

On the community patch note, there's this written for Zelda: "Heavy position, bone, angle, size, and wkb adjustments on all hits"

What does that mean exactly?

 

[BJN39]

On the community patch note, there's this written for Zelda: "Heavy position, bone, angle, size, and wkb adjustments on all hits"

What does that mean exactly?

You mean the phrase under Jab?

It was how I summarized the changes in the thread for them. Specifics are found in the OP, but basically a lot of position (x/y/z) placement changes, some size increases on the inner hitboxes, and wkb adjustments, and hit angle improvements for the hitboxes. They're mostly for helping jab connect correctly.

 

[Rickster]

On the community patch note, there's this written for Zelda: "Heavy position, bone, angle, size, and wkb adjustments on all hits"

What does that mean exactly?

It basically connects better.

'd

 

[BJN39]

How do you even read this?

By knowing how it works :gaycat:

But no some of these are noT fully deciphered into the easier to read data format either anyways, so, yeah. Edit : Eaux I see he actually went and started fixing thaT, well, this'll be helpful once actually finished...

Also sis, I'm super close to releasing a Palutena data thread.

 

[ZombieBran]

Phantom not a sad move anymore?? Please BAN•ZELDA.

I'm very happy with this patch. I expected single frame lag reduction at most but Sakurai almost completely fixing Phantom and 3 (very noticeable) frames removed from Utilt is very helpful and surprising. It's great to know that Zelda is no longer shunned by Sakurai/team.

It's probably too much to ask for a storeable Phantom now so all I want is more damage/KB for lower charges.

 

[BJN39]

Phantom not a sad move anymore?? Please BAN•ZELDA.

I'm very happy with this patch. I expected single frame lag reduction at most but Sakurai almost completely fixing Phantom and 3 (very noticeable) frames removed from Utilt is very helpful and surprising. It's great to know that Zelda is no longer shunned by Sakurai/team.

It's probably too much to ask for a storeable Phantom now so all I want is more damage/KB for lower charges.

We can confirm Phantom endlag reduction now as well.

Though, tfw Palutena gets grab endlag reductions and Zelda doesn't wtf.

 

[ZombieBran]

We can confirm Phantom endlag reduction now as well.

Though, tfw Palutena gets grab endlag reductions and Zelda doesn't wtf.

At this rate Phantom will lose endlag every patch until 2017 where it has no endlag at all.

Sakurai clearly decided Palutenas don't go for grabs enough

 

[BJN39]

omg is it real???

Yup, a measly 2 frames off of each, among other buffs.

*Literally nothing*

Sis what is this...? Edit : Okay it was edited in now, I see.

 

[Rickster]

It appears the dev team hates Samus now instead of Zelda.

And Phantom endlag buff confirmed? Do we know how much yet?

 

[BJN39]

It appears the dev team hates Samus now instead of Zelda.

And Phantom endlag buff confirmed? Do we know how much yet?

It should be Slash/Breaker/Strike -> now FAF 47/50/50 (Release animation) and FAF 67/70/70 (Minimum charge)

 

[BJN39]

BJN in proper common english for us non smash scientist, how many frames did phantom get reduced by?

It seems quite nice, now if only din's wasn't terrible and could actually hit people.

Phantoms all got 5 frames off their endlag in 1.1

Slash actually got 3 frames off itself only before this in 1.0.6, thus the frame difference.

 

[Rickster]

Btw the new and improved Phantom completely wrecks Ike's Aether. It either pushes him away or he ends up getting hit. Free gimps!

 

[BJN39]

So wait, no endlag removal in this patch?

Yes endlag removal this patch. This is patch 1.1/1.1.0 I jusT cuT the .0 that time.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

You mean the phrase under Jab?

It was how I summarized the changes in the thread for them. Specifics are found in the OP, but basically a lot of position (x/y/z) placement changes, some size increases on the inner hitboxes, and wkb adjustments, and hit angle improvements for the hitboxes. They're mostly for helping jab connect correctly.

Oh, ok!

For some reasons, I though that the phrase had nothing to do with the jab.

 

[Meru.]

5 frames! That's a lot. This move is actually looking reliable now *SHOCKING*

 

[Zylach]

As much as I like having a more reliable spacing tool in phantom now and getting 5 frames shaved off of its endlag, it could still use some changes to make it really useful. I'd prefer it if the FAF after release was dropped from 47/50/50 to maybe 40 all around just so it's more difficult for people to simply roll towards us as we release for a free punish.

 

[Freelance Spy]

As much as I like having a more reliable spacing tool in phantom now and getting 5 frames shaved off of its endlag, it could still use some changes to make it really useful. I'd prefer it if the FAF after release was dropped from 47/50/50 to maybe 40 all around just so it's more difficult for people to simply roll towards us as we release for a free punish.

Can't deny its use though. I'll probably win my next tournament because of this buff.

Zelda may not be the best, but she is more viable than Marth, sooooo...

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Hell, the Phantom's not just a spacing tool now. It hits pretty hard! I killed a medium-weight character with it just now while we were both around 100%-ish, and it didn't have much charging time on it before I let it rip because I was timing it to swat him as he stood up from the edge.

It might have been DI-able, but it DID kill!

Finally having a projectile that actually controls space is incredible.

 

[Rickster]

Not to mention it's actually not a bad edgeguard tool. It even shuts down some recovery moves, like Ike's (possibly Kirby's too). And with the blindspots fixed, it actually hits offstage at a good angle.

Oh, and I just realized we can use the Phantom to block Ness's and Lucas's recoveries. If they hit something, they don't fly as far at all. So just throw it out in front of them, and watch them gimp themselves.

 

[Freelance Spy]

Not to mention it's actually not a bad edgeguard tool. It even shuts down some recovery moves, like Ike's (possibly Kirby's too). And with the blindspots fixed, it actually hits offstage at a good angle.

Oh, and I just realized we can use the Phantom to block Ness's and Lucas's recoveries. If they hit something, they don't fly as far at all. So just throw it out in front of them, and watch them gimp themselves.

Worth noting that it's easy to do this gimp while offstage facing in. Also both custom version's set distances make sure that you get it in the same spot every time.

Does anyone know if the customs got the same buffs frame wise? If they are the same then I'll say I might pick one up due to different spacing.

 

[Rickster]

Worth noting that it's easy to do this gimp while offstage facing in. Also both custom version's set distances make sure that you get it in the same spot every time.

Does anyone know if the customs got the same buffs frame wise? If they are the same then I'll say I might pick one up due to different spacing.

Yes, all the Phantoms got endlag decreases and improved hitboxes.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

The Phantom's a lot better now. At this point, I think the only adjustments to Zelda I'd really, really want are 'aerial game has something other than high-lag, high-risk kill moves' and 'Din's Fire made to be worth using.'

 

[Freelance Spy]

The Phantom's a lot better now. At this point, I think the only adjustments to Zelda I'd really, really want are 'aerial game has something other than high-lag, high-risk kill moves' and 'Din's Fire made to be worth using.'

I'd like to have kicks kill better. They kill, but for such a high risk you still have to rack up a ton of percentage. Mostly smashes work just as well. Bair is better than fair, and is much more useful.

 

[Valamway]

Has anyway specifically checked the FAF of Nair?
I feel like I'm going crazy.
If I had any way of testing it myself, I would.

 

[Meru.]

Has anyway specifically checked the FAF of Nair?
I feel like I'm going crazy.
If I had any way of testing it myself, I would.

Dantarion has found the FAF data and released them. I have checked Nair's for you and it's unchanged (51).

 

[Darktundra]

Okay this is a lol combo that is effective on beginners to low intermediate players.
In the end don't use this in tournament because its highly situational.
Great buff to phantom.
It was fixed and buffed by the windbox
5 frame endlag decrease.
Have you ever used fully chargedcharged phantom on an opponent just to ALMOST break their shield?
They're so far away if only you could TELEPORT to deliver the final blow