your predictions for EVO 2013

[Archangel]

Wobbles is so good. I really just want him to wobble everyone as hard as possible. No mercy.

I think Wobbles at the biggest tournament ever wouldn't exactly be a huge upset as much as it would leave a huge portion of the community upset. Still....perhaps everyone would win. I like Wobbles as a person/player/commentator. I just think...at a tournament that came around the way this did...with so much drama and theater behind it. To see someone press 2 buttons repeatedly and win the game on the grandest stage ever...It would be a good victory for wobbles and IC's player/supporters that is for sure. I might even smile about such an outcome...but only in the hope that once and for all wobbling would be re-banned.

 

[smashmachine]

speaking of which wobbles did work today...so sad though for mango. Oh well bad news for everyone in the losers bracket right now. Losers bracket MaNg0 is a whole 'nother beast.

losers bracket Armada?
also I love how Chris G has to make a ridiculously deep run through marvel losers bracket, also infiltration vs daigo in losers of street fighter

 

[V-K]

I think Wobbles at the biggest tournament ever wouldn't exactly be a huge upset as much as it would leave a huge portion of the community upset. Still....perhaps everyone would win. I like Wobbles as a person/player/commentator. I just think...at a tournament that came around the way this did...with so much drama and theater behind it. To see someone press 2 buttons repeatedly and win the game on the grandest stage ever...It would be a good victory for wobbles and IC's player/supporters that is for sure. I might even smile about such an outcome...but only in the hope that once and for all wobbling would be re-banned.

Hitting 2 buttons is easy but getting a grab with Nana and Popo at the right percentage with the right time to get both together isn't that easy. Also Icies aren't top tier anyway so I don't see what the big problem is.

 

[Archangel]

Hitting 2 buttons is easy but getting a grab with Nana and Popo at the right percentage with the right time to get both together isn't that easy. Also Icies aren't top tier anyway so I don't see what the big problem is.

it's all about execution when it comes to every character. You think IC's are alone when it comes to difficulty getting grabs of top tier characters? The difference is what happens when you do get a grab with IC's. The game becomes indistinguishable from Brawl(see Brawl IC's). Having a potential(key word is potential) 0-death chain grab and/or combo is totally different from an infinite. I'm not angry over any particular players winning or losing I honestly don't care I just want to enjoy the hype. The problem is Wobbling is not very hype. It drains hype and has already made it so some potential hype sets that would've happened won't happen. Wobbling IMO shouldn't be legal for many reasons aside from the fact that it's lame...like the fact that it's a handicap. It's a crutch that offers itself to IC's only. The arguement of skill comes in as well. I know for a fact Wobbles is a smart/good player. Would he be Winners top 8 in a tournament without Wobbling? Would've been 2-0'd by Lord for example instead? You can't know for sure obviously but...count how many stocks are taken via wobbling vs the amount that aren't taken via wobbling per set for each set and get back to me on that one.

as for what the big problem is....for right now nothing....even with wobbling banned it's...possible that a really good IC's player (I live and die by Chu dat) or even wobbles or Fly could've got top 8 without Wobbling if they were on fire! With the Amazing players and especially a Peach in top 8 it would be very hard to win. With the Crutch of Wobbling added though...it's not so much about the player's skill and finger dexterity combined with their superior reaction, reads, and adaptability pushing their character to the limits and beyond. It instead becomes about a character relying heavily on the fact that they have a get out of jail free card. A kind of safety net that is unique to their character but not quite right for this game. Maybe for MVC3 but not Melee. If Wobbles was to Win he would prove himself but also prove my point/anyone else who's got the anti-wobbling stance. It will be almost funny in a sense. Winning Evo would be the Best and Worst thing wobbles ever did at the same time :D.

I mean....ok...I'll just say what I'm thinking and stop dancing around it. Wobbles isn't the best player at the Venue. He's pretty good at the game and very smart in terms of how he approaches every individual IC's MU with the IC's. However, looking over the matches he's won today and I'd say...if he rematched them all in sets with wobbling banned 2 of 3 I'm willing to bet he loses at the very least half of them. I mean That Lord dude I'd never heard of but he gave him a good close set and potentially could've taken a 2-0 over him without wobbling. Just saying...I can see that guy is pretty good. we know how good players like Mango and Shroomed are. I know Wobbles is good but I feel like he's a step down from the very very very very good players. Just 1 step down. The difference between him and the other players who are a step down....wobbling....the equalizer in a sense. The question is....is that handicap fair or not?


why is it that I ended up typing so many words?

 

[V-K]

it's all about execution when it comes to every character. You think IC's are alone when it comes to difficulty getting grabs of top tier characters? The difference is what happens when you do get a grab with IC's. The game becomes indistinguishable from Brawl(see Brawl IC's). Having a potential(key word is potential) 0-death chain grab and/or combo is totally different from an infinite. I'm not angry over any particular players winning or losing I honestly don't care I just want to enjoy the hype. The problem is Wobbling is not very hype. It drains hype and has already made it so some potential hype sets that would've happened won't happen. Wobbling IMO shouldn't be legal for many reasons aside from the fact that it's lame...like the fact that it's a handicap. It's a crutch that offers itself to IC's only. The arguement of skill comes in as well. I know for a fact Wobbles is a smart/good player. Would he be Winners top 8 in a tournament without Wobbling? Would've been 2-0'd by Lord for example instead? You can't know for sure obviously but...count how many stocks are taken via wobbling vs the amount that aren't taken via wobbling per set for each set and get back to me on that one.

as for what the big problem is....for right now nothing....even with wobbling banned it's...possible that a really good IC's player (I live and die by Chu dat) or even wobbles or Fly could've got top 8 without Wobbling if they were on fire! With the Amazing players and especially a Peach in top 8 it would be very hard to win. With the Crutch of Wobbling added though...it's not so much about the player's skill and finger dexterity combined with their superior reaction, reads, and adaptability pushing their character to the limits and beyond. It instead becomes about a character relying heavily on the fact that they have a get out of jail free card. A kind of safety net that is unique to their character but not quite right for this game. Maybe for MVC3 but not Melee. If Wobbles was to Win he would prove himself but also prove my point/anyone else who's got the anti-wobbling stance. It will be almost funny in a sense. Winning Evo would be the Best and Worst thing wobbles ever did at the same time :D.

I mean....ok...I'll just say what I'm thinking and stop dancing around it. Wobbles isn't the best player at the Venue. He's pretty good at the game and very smart in terms of how he approaches every individual IC's MU with the IC's. However, looking over the matches he's won today and I'd say...if he rematched them all in sets with wobbling banned 2 of 3 I'm willing to bet he loses at the very least half of them. I mean That Lord dude I'd never heard of but he gave him a good close set and potentially could've taken a 2-0 over him without wobbling. Just saying...I can see that guy is pretty good. we know how good players like Mango and Shroomed are. I know Wobbles is good but I feel like he's a step down from the very very very very good players. Just 1 step down. The difference between him and the other players who are a step down....wobbling....the equalizer in a sense. The question is....is that handicap fair or not?


why is it that I ended up typing so many words?

Of course Wobbles is better with wobbling but imo wobbling is an essential ability of the Icies. The technique just makes sense, with 2 characters you add so much hitstun that they can't break out.
And I don't think wobbling is a out of jail free card. If you look at the matches with Mango you can see how well Mango deals with it. He rarely gets grabbed, he always seperates the icies easily and when he gets grabbed he often mashes out immediately. Maybe Mango would have won with no wobbling but that is also because Fox is a better character than Icies.

 

[Iron Dragon]

If you think Wobbles needs "fire" just to get top 8, then you don't know anything about Wobbles and how good he really is.

I'd also like to point out that other than the beginning of Game 1 vs Mango, most of his kills on Mango in their set weren't even from wobbling.

I'd also like to say that he can(and has) beaten every single player he beat in bracket today with the exception of Mango(who once again as I said he didn't even wobble/get grabs on him that much). Go watch Kings of Cali 2 matches if you don't believe me on the players he's capable of beating.

I don't know where you've been the last few months where Wobbles was busy tearing **** up but...yeah. He is also to me one of the smartest players out there. If you haven't read his blog, I highly suggest doing so because then maybe you'll see into his mind and how much his excellent mindset helps him win matches others might think unwinnable.

But hey what do I know? I'm just a scrub AZ fanboy

 

[stelzig]

A player doing worse/different if you nerf/limit his character? No ****? lol.

 

[Beat!]

"ICs players could perform well without wobbling" is an incredibly flawed argument, because it could be applied to literally any move or technique for any character in the game.

Wobbles isn't the best player at the Venue.

No ****. That doesn't mean he didn't earn his victories.

You're free to dislike wobbling if you want. You're free to think it's easy. Heck, you're free to think it's a "handicap" if you want as well (as ridiculous as that is), but those aren't acceptable grounds for banning it.

 

[1MachGO]

I am for IC's having wobbling, but I'm not too keen on the final kill of of this tournament being a wobble.

 

[smashmachine]

I am for IC's having wobbling, but I'm not too keen on the final kill of of this tournament being a wobble.

Wobbles to wobble Armada's last stock away in game 5 of set 2 of grand finals
crowd to go wild

 

[1MachGO]

^that might be hype on the grounds that it would be a huge upset and would have many other upsets prior to it.

 

[Malik hall]

I think M2K is taking this one all the way.

 

[Krynxe]

Salem will win

Wobbles will get second

I was obviously joking about salem, but I was actually serious about wobbles lmfao

so much hype

 

[Plum]

Are people who are claiming wobbling kills hype watching Wobbles play?
Because it really doesn't sound like the crowd just loses hype when he gets grabs. If anything they are getting more hype.

 

[Djent]

So how did everyone do with their predictions?

1) Mango
2) Dr. PP
3) HBox
4) M2K
5) Armada
5) Shroomed
7) Wobbles
7) Zhu
-----Finals Cutoff-----
9) PPU
9) Ice
9) SFAT
9) Hax
13) Axe
13) S2J
13) Taj
13) Shiz
-----Semis Cutoff-----

I got 7/8 of the top 8 and 14/16 of the top 16.

However, I only managed to guess 2/8 and 7/16 exact placings.

 

[smashmachine]

Are people who are claiming wobbling kills hype watching Wobbles play?
Because it really doesn't sound like the crowd just loses hype when he gets grabs. If anything they are getting more hype.

that's because it's the ****ing ice climbers, who doesn't get hype

 

[EpixAura]

I gotta say, going by the crowd reaction, wobbling was hype as all get-out. Especially during his games vs. Hbox. Before it started, I was just looking at the stream feeling sorry for Wobbles because I couldn't imagine how Puff could ever get grabbed by ICs. I learned I don't know **** about all the tricks ICs have up their insulated sleeves. I've never seen such long range and smooth looking grab setups in my life.

Also, nothing is more hype than a SoPo comeback.

 

[LKratos]

People are acting like wobbling itself is the easiest thing in the world too.

Not only do you only have like a 4 frame window to get the A button timing correct, but from the beginning of the grab, you only have until the 2nd pummel by popo to get the wobble going. Getting a grab on Mango's fox, while IC's are de-synched, and maintaining the concentration to immediately begin the wobble deserves a free stock.

Also, some of the reads he was getting on PP/hbox were *absurd*. He can take stocks, from spacies, with SoPo. He has the same kind of specialization as ken in terms of expert spacing with disjointed hitboxes. Without some execution errors (probably due to nerves/being a bit burnt out), grand finals would have been a lot closer.

 

[Archangel]

I wasn't clear enough. When I say it killed the hype I'm simply talking about Matches that perhaps should've happened. I would have loved to see Axe in there for example and who knows. Wobbles vs Shroomed maybe have(probably not to be real) gone another way. In which case we could've seen Wobbles vs Axe in LB. However if wobbles had beat Axe(maybe) he would've faced Armada in top 8 (GG wobbles).

As for Saying Wobbles isn't the best player in the world doesn't seem like that big of a stretch to me. Nor is it an insult. It's like saying Taj or Axe or...Sfat or PewPewU or Zhu...not different at all. To say one is not the best isn't to say they are bad, Mediocre, Average, or not good. It's to say that they are not the very best. the top 5-7 are pretty clear. Everything after that is up for grabs.

but with all my feelings about wobbling aside. Shout outs to Wobbles. Aside from GFs vs Mango he played pretty amazing. Desincing and using Nana as bait for grabs. I was shocked...and the solo popo comeback vs Hbox...it deserves respect. I feel like he got ****** or he ****** himself alot vs Mango in GFs. Even though Mango was playing better it was clear that Wobbles was playing slightly worse than before also. So...idk...I feel bad when players **** themselfs up in close sets. If it really is Wobble's last tournament I hope he sticks around to commentate at least. his insight could be used in the commentating booth for Evo...2014

 

[pikmin.org]

I wasn't clear enough. When I say it killed the hype I'm simply talking about Matches that perhaps should've happened. I would have loved to see Axe in there for example and who knows. Wobbles vs Shroomed maybe have(probably not to be real) gone another way. In which case we could've seen Wobbles vs Axe in LB. However if wobbles had beat Axe(maybe) he would've faced Armada in top 8 (GG wobbles).

It's arbitrary as to where you draw the line as to what "should" and "shouldn't" happen.

Sure, if the Ice Climbers weren't allow to wobble then perhaps Wobbles would have lost to Shroomed. But then again, by using the exact same logic you could also take any random aspect of Dr. Mario's game and remove that from the picture (Jabs --> Stuff, F-Airs, etc.) and imagine how the set would have gone without that as well. Everything that either character can do is just another option and wobbling is no different. Could Mango have gotten 1st without using shine? Would Hungrybox have gotten 3rd without using Rest? etc. etc.

 

[Iron Dragon]

I wasn't clear enough. When I say it killed the hype I'm simply talking about Matches that perhaps should've happened. I would have loved to see Axe in there for example and who knows. Wobbles vs Shroomed maybe have(probably not to be real) gone another way. In which case we could've seen Wobbles vs Axe in LB. However if wobbles had beat Axe(maybe) he would've faced Armada in top 8 (GG wobbles).

As for Saying Wobbles isn't the best player in the world doesn't seem like that big of a stretch to me. Nor is it an insult. It's like saying Taj or Axe or...Sfat or PewPewU or Zhu...not different at all. To say one is not the best isn't to say they are bad, Mediocre, Average, or not good. It's to say that they are not the very best. the top 5-7 are pretty clear. Everything after that is up for grabs.

but with all my feelings about wobbling aside. Shout outs to Wobbles. Aside from GFs vs Mango he played pretty amazing. Desincing and using Nana as bait for grabs. I was shocked...and the solo popo comeback vs Hbox...it deserves respect. I feel like he got ****ed or he ****ed himself alot vs Mango in GFs. Even though Mango was playing better it was clear that Wobbles was playing slightly worse than before also. So...idk...I feel bad when players **** themselfs up in close sets. If it really is Wobble's last tournament I hope he sticks around to commentate at least. his insight could be used in the commentating booth for Evo...2014

Wobbles vs Axe in LB would not be a more hype match in the slightest. It happens ALL THE TIME in AZ locals, and while the sets are always very close, the record is EXTREMELY in Wobbles's favor(I think Axe has only taken 3-4 sets off of him of probably 20+ they've played).

 

[Archangel]

It's arbitrary as to where you draw the line as to what "should" and "shouldn't" happen.

Sure, if the Ice Climbers weren't allow to wobble then perhaps Wobbles would have lost to Shroomed. But then again, by using the exact same logic you could also take any random aspect of Dr. Mario's game and remove that from the picture (Jabs --> Stuff, F-Airs, etc.) and imagine how the set would have gone without that as well. Everything that either character can do is just another option and wobbling is no different. Could Mango have gotten 1st without using shine? Would Hungrybox have gotten 3rd without using Rest? etc. etc.

ya the difference is none of those aspects have been banned, none of them are infinite, Even if you bring up things like fox's infinite on PS, that is 1 stage that can be struck/banned and not all characters in the game can be shined on that stage. Chain grabs which are no where near as guaranteed as infinite moves also do not work on everyone. Puff will Die or be punished badly if she misses a rest. Sometimes she's even killed if she lands a rest. There is no character that can do something that is inescapable to every character in the game accept for ICs. and the worst thing that happens to them if they miss is that they can try again. I can wobble...I've actually learned how to do it and it's difficult to set up I admit but the basic aspect of wobbling itself is far easier than 0-death chain grabs, combos, infinite wall shines-upsmash, or anything else that may or may not lead to the same outcome(taking a stock)

The point of my entire posts wasn't to say if ____ then ____. It was to say that the very question of If shouldn't be there. Wobbling was banned for a reason and IC's players have placed high without it. and Even if they didn't place that high...so what? How many other characters better or worse than IC's didn't see top 8? There was a Doc in top 8. Could've easily been a Pika or Falcon or Marth in top 8 as well. There wasn't...and that's fine. The rules shouldn't be altered so that those characters have a better chance of placing higher. I think a good enough player could place high/win with them. Why it was done for IC's is what I don't understand. If anything...I don't understand why IC's aren't...insulted? Maybe my mind is just different. Perhaps I should play more fighting infinite based fighting games. Even then...Those games most everyone has infinite....

Ban all infinites and only IC's and fox(on 1 stage vs some characters) is effected. The only way to remove the "if" from the the topic is to...remove the source.

Axe vs Wobbles I've seen maybe 1 time before. AZ tournaments aren't the world brother. Although some good players coming out of AZ.

 

[Beat!]

The default stance is that wobbling's allowed, not that it's banned. Allowing wobbling isn't altering the rules, banning it is.

Wobbling was banned for a reason

Not a good one.

 

[Archangel]

The default stance is that wobbling's allowed, not that it's banned. Allowing wobbling isn't altering the rules, banning it is.




Not a good one.

the default stance is items on 4 player FFA.

Seriously though Wobbling was unbanned...in order for something to be unbanned it must first be banned.

 

[zurus222]

wobbling should be allow there where other ice climber at evo and they got owned.wobblez is just a great player and #1 ic.

 

[Archangel]

wobbling should be allow there where other ice climber at evo and they got owned.wobblez is just a great player and #1 ic.

there are only a handful of IC's players this is true. out of the handful only 4 are pretty good. Fly had to play Armada VERY early. Im not saying that wobbles wouldn't have beat Armada.....but.......I mean....it's peach...and it's Armada's peach...in THAT MU.....it's GG's I'm thinking no matter what IC player would've been there. If Wobble's had found himself playing against Armada in place of Fly I'm not sure his placing would've been as high...it's possible but at the same time it's unlikely. Sometimes the luck of the draw factors in to tournaments. Scar's placing at Genesis 1 comes to mind.

 

[Yobolight]

LMAO

Anyone who thinks Wobbling is cheap, doesn't understand how incredibly difficult it is to play Ice Climbers in competitive play.

 

[Aesir]

Scrubtastic comments.

 

[Sedda]

Are you guys REALLY blaming wobbling for this? Did you watch that set with Mango in Winners? He fell into those grabs, and as a noob I could even tell. PP was even worse. It's like he was asking for it.

I think the biggest reason Wobbles got so far is that they got careless, but more than anything nobody expected him to place THAT high, so they didn't prepare for AZ rage. I GUESS THEY SHOULD'VE WATCHED SOME AXE VS WOBBLES VIDS.

 

[Engo]

No johns. Wobbles played amazing. Most people didn't respect wobbling enough and weren't efficient enough in their nana killing plus made reckless errors that got them grabbed. All it means is now top players gotta improve at the ic's matchup if they're playing someone at the caliber of Wobbles(although he's retiring so they can sleep easy until Fly and other IC's start approaching that level)

 

[Vixen]

Pp needs to watch forward videos. Forward was the old king of disrespecting nana.

Sent from my SPH-L300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[SonuvaBeach]

This thread should be closed instead of turning into yet another wobbling argument.

It was an amazing tourny and it was about as hype as it could get. I'm glad we didn't get a hbox vs armada rematch.