phi1ny3
Not the Mama
As we all know, I've had a matchup/playstyle thread for quite a while now. Seeing as I can't play often against other people, I rely on analyzing quite a bit from videos as well. However, I am dismayed to say that some of the lucarios I've seen are a little rough around. Sure, they have "the basics", but they tend to get messy. We-no-want sloppycarios, we want Vroom Vroom Party Starter! So, I've decided to compile a bit of a thread to get your lucario a little higher from beyond the bare necessities.
1. Fsmash
Yeah, this is an awesome move, but there is a way to do use this wrong. Using it haphazardly will get you on the hurt, so there's a few things you ought to know about this move:
Yeah, this is an awesome move, but there is a way to do use this wrong. Using it haphazardly will get you on the hurt, so there's a few things you ought to know about this move:
A.It tippers- Now in an imperfect world, nobody is going to space fsmash well every time, but that doesn't mean you try using this smash when your opponent is right in front of you! This move has better knockback, more safety, and more damage going for it if you tip or at least make the effort. Even if you do miss with the tip, usually they’ll be too far out to punish with anything before you can respond to it, so it’s generally better to get them on the fringes. There is a good time when it is more safer to hit them with the inner part, and that is when they are in the air in front of you. Usually they will AD, and get caught by the smash or what comes right after it.
B. It has IASA frames- not like MK dtilt IASA, but still very noteworthy for a smash. Make sure you are doing something right after, whether it’s charging an AS, moving, or responding to a possible counterattack, because waiting around with fsmash while the wisps of flame dissipate is lame. A really good option, since many opponents will attempt to leap over the fsmash and attempt to hit you in the air is utilt, since it has a nice arc and good damage racking/juggling properties.
- Try the occasional strutter-step fsmash – How do you do this? Flick the c-stick, then immediately flick the analog stick in a direction. This is very good for improving your efficacy. Since you can also hold A at the same time as inputting with a c-stick smash to charge, you get all the benefits of a regular fsmash, plus you get to maneuver it while charging. This is great for getting the fsmash closer to a tipper and spacing with it, and messing up an opponent’s spacing as well. I can’t tell you how many times a character intended to outrange me with a grab or smash/tilt, only to miss while I moved backward and smashed him as punishment.
Look at 1:57ish for info on strutter step.
2. Fair
Ah, the bread and butter for every lucario, fair has so many uses and makes lucario great at low percents. Against most characters, properly stringed fairs act as an inescapable combo. It is also one of our faster aerials, has good range and speed, and one of our best starters, walling aerials, and approach options. Unfortunately, this too has weaknesses that make it hurtful to abuse it without care.
- Don’t land with this move- Why? Because fair has considerable landing lag, and that’s what nair’s for! Landing with most aerials in front of a shielding opponent is already bad enough, but with fair it gets worse. If it means using your second jump, ascend and use something (dair will help take care of your landing). If you land, land in a more tactical area (like retreating fair away from a shield perhaps?).
- Fair is prolly one of our better WoP options- Yes, bair does this too more or less, but fair is fast and if you happen to get your opponent off the stage early and set up for a gimp, you’ll love fair’s ability to helplessly add hurt and distance between recovering and a star-blast off the side.
- Fair is a defensive move too- Bet you don’t think of that very often, huh? Fair can wall very well, due to it’s speed and it’s very quick start up time, allowing for elements of good control. It’s truly a pain to see lucarios attempt to approach a character who is really good at punishing and get slapped every which way, when they can force the opponent to approach and could therefore use fair in conjunction with AS to create a tough situation for the opponent to space and predict your movement.
- Fair -> nair vs. fair -> dair - One of the greatest questions that a lucario on the offensive asks themselves. Fair to dair is generally used more often, since dair has an amazing hitbox, quick speed, and great knockback, and generally pockets more damage. However, you will have use for nair, especially if you want to follow up with something else at low percents. Nair has relatively low knock back, and since nair autocancels, almost any character who is in front can be knocked with nair upon landing, and while they’re stunned, can be FP’d, jabbed, ftilted, etc. you name it! Dair is generally good if you know you just want to get them off the ground and want more knockback, and even so, fair -> dair can be used after you pop them up. For example, fair -> nair -> FP -> fair -> dair. How good is that?
3. Dair
All lucarios love this move, but this arguably has even more situational uses than the other two attacks previously mentioned. Dair is a gift, but it needs to be used properly.
- It has pseudo-SHFF- Yes, by all means, this is pretty cool. But considering this has a relatively small hitbox when used this way, it isn’t going to do you much good. Aside from using it for mindgames, the best places to use this is on a platform, attacking below, or if you have baited them to roll or spotdodge into it.
- It has considerable lag- No, not helpless lag per se, but lag that opponents can punish this move. If you are going to pelt a shield with dair, prepare to be punished severely. There are two ways to remedy against this:
I.Space it very well, so that you can get out if they attempt to knock you with a grab.
II.Jump out of it, don’t continue thinking you can reliably pierce the shield, and follow up with either charging your AS a bit, fair/bair, or land into a jab or other fast ground attack.
4. Force Palm
This is a special with some situational properties. Until recently, it has been thought to be a true chaingrab. This has been proven false, as we have seen that it can be broken out of like a true grab. However, human reflexes cannot break out of the first one or two FPs. That being said, this means that FP only needs a tweaking and will still be useful as an asset to our arsenal.
- It doesn’t chain – You heard it, despite all the old posts about it, it can be broken out of. I’m hoping to get Kevin to prove it (with Bowser, for crying out loud!). Fortunately, FP can be replaced in a variety of ways, meaning that FP won’t be a true chaingrab, but a string! (which is almost the same thing in terms of damage). Usually good follow ups at low %s for a FP would be jab, ftilt (which in terms of knockback and damage is virtually identical), fair, nair, or dash -> grab even!
Quite an amazing aerial, really. It's kind of like peach's fair, good range, knockback, damage, and has a telltale windup. This aerial can either make or brake a match, since fair doesn't always cut it against other characters. The trick is compensating for the wind up with either spacing, timing, or quota change. Using this move correctly can potentially trash an opponent's attempts for aerials against you, and if used offensively can break them if they attempt to leave or retreat hastily. Probably our strongest aerial in terms of knockback, it is a good edgeguard aerial as well.
- Don't treat this like a fair - it is easily punishable and needs care, so you won't be chaining or flying into an offensive linear pattern with this. You have to make sure that if you are going to charge with this move, that it will connect (like after a DK upB onto stage kind of sure). Ways to make this less awful is to retreat it (should be done similarly to fairs for walling, but even more important with bair).
- Sometimes this works in conjunction with fair- Allow me to explain. Let's say that your opponent is shielding your fair, but doesn't have the immense grab range, or you spaced fair very well, while you have whiffed the fair, you can travel accross and do bair from behind, and this will work well if you have conditioned them to assume a fair->dair is coming, also SH fairs are really common, and getting the opponent to be conditioned is pretty easy, so getting something with some windup can often mess them up if you throw out a well spaced SH fair-> retreat -> SH bair.
- This is actually a good retribution aerial - Not something you'll see often in the boards, but I think that the topic of getting your opponent while he used a rather vulnerable attack or move that knocks you. So many forget that lucario is frankly not that light, so things like laggier fairs, Bowser upB, anything that sends you up and has some cooldown can be punished by bair fairly well. Not that I'm saying to always look for sneaking this in after he knocks you up, but it's good to know when you think that your options are limited after getting knocked at low %s.
- Bair is good at capitalizing on a disadvantageous position- Do you know why some people enjoy using bair as a pseudo-brick wall? Because approaching is a relatively disadvantageous position. Mixing this up with fair, nair, and uair can really cover your options for keeping your opponent at bay in the air. The other disadvantageous position is off the edge. I swear this move combined with AS is prolly some of the best stuff of decently solid edgeguarding/gimping at low percents, and it doesn't change much even at high percents. The range compensates for the windup, and let me tell you, it lends itself to rend even AD to be useless.
Such a good aerial, is it not? It comes out about only three frames slower than fair, and is great for juggling, stringing, vertical killing, and a decent anti-AD. The whole body and burst makes the hitbox, and is amazing for damage if you use it right even against much higher tier chars! *cough* snakeandmarth *cough* cough*. The trick is to learn how to utilize this somewhat unorthodox move for its max potential.
- This move is a good ledgestall aerial. Azen uses it, Lee uses it, and while I'm not saying that everything a pro does you do, it is seen as really good for this purpose. This aerial's burst tends to go through the lip of the stage, hitting the edge, and since it lingers, it means that they have to keep the shield up. Combine that with canceling some of the lag by regrabbing the edge, and it's obvious that this move suits the situation.
- This move ***** AD. Like marth nair against AD. If you are against a character with a poor dair or overall poor aerial movement, this is good for juggling and at higher percents, killing. Knowing that this hitbox is pretty big is helpful (fun fact: although ROB should NEVER use dair as a rebuttal to juggling, lucario uair has a larger horizontal hitbox, and a nearly matching vertical one!).
- It's not that slow- only about 3 frames slower than fair/nair, this move is still pretty quick.
- This aerial kills! not at low percent kind of kill, but for its speed, it certainly gets the job done (medium-well, that is). Especially against light characters that have meh underneath stuff (marth comes to mind, but you get the idea), but overall works well if fresh or near fresh. This aerial should therefore be used sparingly when racking up damage (fair does this already) and used when near the kill. Take note of the stage's kill zones when using this (although at high percent aura boost, this really doesn't matter), if the vertical kill zones are low, this is a very viable move, even at higher zones, this move can still kill, you just need to finesse some more damage before working it in.
Dtilt is a very mixed tool that has different uses that neither excels compared to other char's dtilts nor sags (except in tripping T.T). It's decently fast, has plently of range, and a pseudo-benefit from it is that even if the move gets occasionally input by accident from other moves (like ff nair or jab cancel), IT WORKS ANYWAYS (most of the time anyways 
). It will always do some decent damage even at low percent, and serves as a make-shift "poke" tool that can be used for zoning. What sets it apart is that the pop-up is very ideal at low percents, and combine that it has some relatively low cool-down time it can string into other options. All in all, I think that dtilt is underused because people look at it in a "keyhole" concept, complaining about it's meh quality that most dtilts are designed for, but forget that as a whole its mixed qualities actually tend to suit lucario's damage-racking game anyways.
). It will always do some decent damage even at low percent, and serves as a make-shift "poke" tool that can be used for zoning. What sets it apart is that the pop-up is very ideal at low percents, and combine that it has some relatively low cool-down time it can string into other options. All in all, I think that dtilt is underused because people look at it in a "keyhole" concept, complaining about it's meh quality that most dtilts are designed for, but forget that as a whole its mixed qualities actually tend to suit lucario's damage-racking game anyways.- It's a decent string ender/starter. Gotta love a tilt that's quick enough to work out of nair's autocancel, has good range, and is almost too easy to use. Also gotta love that slight push it gives and what you can do out of it. I've seen dtilt give many lucarios that extra edge he needs to maintain momentum and pressure without fearing too much.
- It's a trap! This is not a typical "frame trap" move like ftilt, but let me explain. let's say the opponent is in his shield while you are right there pressuring him (preferably waiting), and let's say he wants to spotdodge, upB oos, or retaliate with a jab. This is a 9 frame move, if he does upB oos, that's about 4 frames to drop, 5 frames for the hitbox to come out. While this is somewhat situational, this has helped me several times against my friend's bowser, since it clanks with it, allowing me to readjust myself in a somewhat advantageous position, instead of flying up in the air, worrying about some risky traps. This slight delay in the hitbox also lends itself for a weak landing trap for opponents, often more safer though. It's very challenging and tricky at times, but it certainly does help to have a tilt like this that's almost an inbetween for jab/utilt speed and ftilt/fsmash speed, and it will throw off opponents when demonstrated correctly. I'd almost consider this a "mindgame trap", considering it isn't as advantageous in raw frame data as it is in player behavior and typical tactics.
- It's a crude poking device. It has meh shield pressure, but great range and good speed, and being able to crawl can help you respace this move. If used in conjunction with ftilt and grab, your opponent will have to deal with all sorts of complications in his punish game, and dtilt will help with it's low cooldown and awkward start time that will get opponents caught off guard.
- It's kind of on the safe side. This move really has it covered in a beautiful speed-to-range ratio. It's almost short of jab or utilt in speed, but with the slight stun properties of the aura it often doesn't matter, and can fit itself into several roles in your playing, especially a must-have in the low percent damage racking game. It's range and cooldown (it's has some IASA, iirc) both go well together in being both a defensive pseudo-zoning tool and a string "sting" attack (meaning it give opponent's limited options like a pseudo-tech chase scenario). This can even be useful in provoking a response when an opponent is trying to get off the ledge and can attack them with moderate safety, due again to its low commitment in frames.
I probably like this move a little more than I should. The issue is, lucario at low percents needs a safer, faster, and more bulk damaging punisher than FP. While it has nowhere near the reliability in follow ups, bthrow does a lot of things that can be followed on if DONE RIGHT. 10%, far trajectory for a low percent throw, plus a harder-to-DI motion than FP/fthrow makes for some good things at low percents (plus a few things at high). Some good uses I've found with this move:
- Bthrow is a good option for stringing by reaction and AS pressure. Let me go into detail. AS, while a terrible camp option, is good for pressure, because the slow nature of it tends to do well for controlling air space and compensates for a somewhat slow fire rate as well. That being said, It's clear that AS has been an option people usually use after bthrow to attempt to land the 13% on top, but most haven't seen what you can do afterwards, especially against "heavies". Forcing options on characters with bigger hurtboxes/more limited movement really can accumulate damage for a damage racking game, and making them commit to something like AD helps. What can be done? AS/BAS itself doesn't set up for much directly, but the disadvantage the opponent is at from reacting DOES. You can go for a more safe fair string, you can FF nair -> some more options, you can ftilt, you can even regrab sometimes and do another bthrow, stringing grabs may be situational, but in lucario's low percent damage game, you need every opening you can get.
- Throwing them offstage is terrific, period. With exceptions like MK with a good fair and multiple jumps, most aerials that normally trouble lucario onstage are much riskier offstage. Merely the fact that they have to fight/commit to things they don't want to and usually comprimise on other things to best lucario's aerials are diminished and few, and lucario's aerials form all sorts of barriers offstage. I consider some of lucario's gimping prowess to be one of the best for his level, and arguably some of the best overall (but that's my bias). You can rack up a lot of damage on even some of the best players, and dair is a good option if they've commited to their recovery move. Bthrow simply provides tons of situations that accelerate lucario's damaging game, easily due to the facts that it gives a nice trajectory, turns lucario around to make for easy transition for fairs, and is a great throw for pivot grabbing.
Revenge! Lucario will have often left the opponent in tatters before getting killed, and we all know how important it is to neutralize a loss in stock for lucario. Bthrow is fast enough to catch an opponent offguard and if done quickly many will not expect it, and therefore be unable to change its trajectory enough to sway survival more in their favor. Mix that with the fact that pivot grab is often a surprise tactic, and you'll often net the late kill when they are in the 150s or later. Even if this doesn't pull through, remember the aforementioned options offstage and you could pull a gimp off easily too.
This move is Lucario’s signature attack, and for good reasons. A flexible projectile that I feel has yet to have been fully exploited, although has been used to great capacity. Aura Sphere has a slow trajectory, but that makes it far from useless. In fact, this is part of the reason why it eats AD and spotdodge and works for pressure so well, having it control a certain amount of space for a long time compensates for a slow firing speed and helps lucario’s camp game. Now people tell me “Lucario can’t camp lolz”, well this is only true in the traditional sense of the word “camp”. In reality, the faculties of this move have to be used intelligently, nobody would ever fall for bland SH and standing BAS spam, it just doesn’t work because PS/shield. Sakurai built AS as something that would benefit lucario and compliment his style, and that’s to throw out hitboxes while maintaining a good pressure game. It being as slow as it is has its benefits, like being able to force a reaction. I’ve been in, and seen many situations where a good lucario has covered holes in his pressure game by making escape options few and small. On top of this, Lucario’s projectile is infamously known for killing, as well as being a decent gimp, damage, and punishing tool. It certainly isn’t the best at doing any of those, but it certainly gets the job done. Here are some thoughts of mine on how to up your AS’ capabilities.
On BAS:
BAS has gone through fluctuations of good and bad in Lucario’s metagame. Initially it was thought to be a boon for projectile camping, but after learning of its slow fire and how easily opponents can lunge at you, there was an abandonment of the idea. I’d actually like to bring this back into the light, and discuss what it can do in this current metagame. The biggest trick with this camping is not to accumulate pressure with the projectile alone, but with your other attacks as well. You want to pretend your BAS is a floating fist, if that’s what you want to think of it. Then things start to make more sense.
BAS has about as much firing end lag as most of our setups, namely FP, dthrow, fthrow (yes, this does allow some follow-ups at low percents), uthrow, utilt, and dash attack. While the traveling speed doesn’t amazingly allow lucario to travel with his said projectile, it gives an opponent who is receiving your approach/attack have to choose some more limited options. Here’s where the magic happens.Technically, your opponent ISN’T in a strong frame trap with a rushing fair/roll behind after BAS. However, they don’t know that, it looks pretty grim. It is especially convincing if you’ve been camping them and the only thing they’ve been conditioned to do is shield. You can get the best effect of this against characters with big hurtboxes, which makes approaching with things like grab a lot easier for you. This effect only seems to be shared against big, big characters, ignore this.
BAS has gone through fluctuations of good and bad in Lucario’s metagame. Initially it was thought to be a boon for projectile camping, but after learning of its slow fire and how easily opponents can lunge at you, there was an abandonment of the idea. I’d actually like to bring this back into the light, and discuss what it can do in this current metagame. The biggest trick with this camping is not to accumulate pressure with the projectile alone, but with your other attacks as well. You want to pretend your BAS is a floating fist, if that’s what you want to think of it. Then things start to make more sense.
BAS has about as much firing end lag as most of our setups, namely FP, dthrow, fthrow (yes, this does allow some follow-ups at low percents), uthrow, utilt, and dash attack. While the traveling speed doesn’t amazingly allow lucario to travel with his said projectile, it gives an opponent who is receiving your approach/attack have to choose some more limited options. Here’s where the magic happens.
On AS
This too is very important, this tool cannot go to waste. I’ve seen too many lucarios fire this horribly and the opponent gains the advantage most of the time you’ve fired one. Why? You have risked time and possible percentage on both you and the opponent to charge AS, and getting it zapped just like that means your opponent has just won the situation. There are a few habits that I’ve seen that need to be corrected:
Firing it on a landing opponent, with or without AD: Okay guys, if you’ve read the opponent, this should be easy. AS eats through whatever landing lag happens if done correctly. What happens most of the time though? The opponent gets to shield, or it is jumped over. What happened people? You haven’t practiced the art of frame trapping, that’s what! AS actually takes a little skill to frame trapping with something like ftilt because it’s a little slow in startup, but that only means you have to practice this. Friendlies are amazing for practicing concepts and tidbits like these, so next time you think you’ll want to chase him down, ask yourself, “what is he thinking?” Chances are, probably an aerial, if so, he’ll probably either bat away or AD. If so, just fire AS. Also, memorize timing and the “ballistics” of the move, and get used to how long it takes to get to a said destination, after some time, you’ll probably develop a knack of when the opponent will predict AS or not, and when he’ll be able to safely get back on the ground or get blasted for a KO/offstage for an edgeguard. Realize what other moves go with it from natural trajectory, maybe after a fair, bthrow, fthrow, or ftilt, either try an AS, or if they’re a little more savvy, just move towards them and feign an attack. Lots of good opportunities come from threats, and unlike mindgames threats are legitimate options that can be considered legitimate options in some situations, especially where the ideal won’t work. You of all people should know how AS works more than the opponent does, so there’s no excuse for sucking with it, it’s an integral part of lucario’s metagame, and not knowing how to use it properly is like a Snake not knowing how to use grenades effectively; while it’s manageable at mid levels of play, it’s unforgivable to not learn how to use a tool like this when trying to achieve high level play. It may seem difficult, but when you have learned to use this tool, you’ll be glad you learned it when your opponent rockets off the screen at high speed in flames for a bad judgment.
This too is very important, this tool cannot go to waste. I’ve seen too many lucarios fire this horribly and the opponent gains the advantage most of the time you’ve fired one. Why? You have risked time and possible percentage on both you and the opponent to charge AS, and getting it zapped just like that means your opponent has just won the situation. There are a few habits that I’ve seen that need to be corrected:
Firing it on a landing opponent, with or without AD: Okay guys, if you’ve read the opponent, this should be easy. AS eats through whatever landing lag happens if done correctly. What happens most of the time though? The opponent gets to shield, or it is jumped over. What happened people? You haven’t practiced the art of frame trapping, that’s what! AS actually takes a little skill to frame trapping with something like ftilt because it’s a little slow in startup, but that only means you have to practice this. Friendlies are amazing for practicing concepts and tidbits like these, so next time you think you’ll want to chase him down, ask yourself, “what is he thinking?” Chances are, probably an aerial, if so, he’ll probably either bat away or AD. If so, just fire AS. Also, memorize timing and the “ballistics” of the move, and get used to how long it takes to get to a said destination, after some time, you’ll probably develop a knack of when the opponent will predict AS or not, and when he’ll be able to safely get back on the ground or get blasted for a KO/offstage for an edgeguard. Realize what other moves go with it from natural trajectory, maybe after a fair, bthrow, fthrow, or ftilt, either try an AS, or if they’re a little more savvy, just move towards them and feign an attack. Lots of good opportunities come from threats, and unlike mindgames threats are legitimate options that can be considered legitimate options in some situations, especially where the ideal won’t work. You of all people should know how AS works more than the opponent does, so there’s no excuse for sucking with it, it’s an integral part of lucario’s metagame, and not knowing how to use it properly is like a Snake not knowing how to use grenades effectively; while it’s manageable at mid levels of play, it’s unforgivable to not learn how to use a tool like this when trying to achieve high level play. It may seem difficult, but when you have learned to use this tool, you’ll be glad you learned it when your opponent rockets off the screen at high speed in flames for a bad judgment.
(insert link here to DJB's post)
I’m going to add to this later, and this by all means is not intended to replace the guides. This is merely for those who are transitioning, and have forgotten to apply or see beyond the basics of lucario.
