You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Marth was important in two games. He drove the plot alongside Nyna.

Ike was important in both of his games. He drove the plot alongside Elincia and Micaiah.

Chrom drives the plot for five maps (Prologue - Ch.4). Then Emmeryn steals it (Ch.6-9), then Gangrel (Ch.10-11), then Walhart (Ch.12-20), then Avatar and Lucina steal it until the end of the game (21-endgame).

I'm not sure what connection you're seeing.

I'm speaking moveset wise. Ike is unique from Marth/Roy, so wouldn't Chrom/Lucina bring something varied as well as new things from their game? (Lances!) Are you letting arbitrary numbers decide which one is a more worthy protagonist or is popularity coming into play?

Also, what was the development cycle between Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn?

 

[kikaru]

So, what can Chrom do? I know he can heal with his Exlated Falchion but so can Roy, he has his lance (which could be used as a B move), he has the Shield of Seals (which Marth also has) and I believe with different classes he can promote to use different weapons?

Just about, we've seen some of his physical capabilities through cutscenes but his reclassing options aren't the greatest:
Cavalier-> Great Knight/ Paladin (Mounted horseback units, one can use Swords and Spears while the other can use Swords, Spears, and Axes)
Archer-> Sniper/Bow Knight (Bow Knight is also mounted on horseback as well)

And the optional Dread Fighter. But I doubt we'd see anything beyond his Lord-> Great Lord class line which allows the use of Sword and Spear. Though Marth can use the Shield of Seals his moveset has been pretty defined already despite the lack of material, so it would make more sense to have Chrom use that instead.

 

[jaytalks]

I'm speaking moveset wise. Ike is unique from Marth/Roy, so wouldn't Chrom/Lucina bring something varied as well as new things from their game? (Lances!) Are you letting arbitrary numbers decide which one is a more worthy protagonist or is popularity coming into play?

Also, what was the development cycle between Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn?

I think it's less likely they will use lances since they tend to keep lords in their default form it appears. That could change, but they use whatever class appears on the box art I think.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

You could easily incorporate spears/lances into a directional move without interrupting wielding a sword for the rest of their moveset.

 

[•Col•]

but but but having a variety of weapons is Link's "thing"

D:

 

[Jedisupersonic]

but but but having a variety of weapons is Link's "thing"

D:

When did Link ever use a spear/lance? Sure he's used alot but has he ever used a lance. I cannot recall one Zelda game where he has [if I am mistaken I apologize]. Unless you count the rods but those are rods.

Edit: WIND WAKER. He did there kinda. But it wasn't like a main weapon, it was stolen from an enemy.

 

[Deleted member]

Just about, we've seen some of his physical capabilities through cutscenes but his reclassing options aren't the greatest:
Cavalier-> Great Knight/ Paladin (Mounted horseback units, one can use Swords and Spears while the other can use Swords, Spears, and Axes)
Archer-> Sniper/Bow Knight (Bow Knight is also mounted on horseback as well)

And the optional Dread Fighter. But I doubt we'd see anything beyond his Lord-> Great Lord class line which allows the use of Sword and Spear. Though Marth can use the Shield of Seals his moveset has been pretty defined already despite the lack of material, so it would make more sense to have Chrom use that instead.

Thanks, that certainly helped out. Though I am going to say that if all he's getting is abilities from his Lord and Great Lord class, then I'm not interested since it's not outside of the realm of possibility for Marth to get his Sword of Shields and that Roy could use the healing ability anyway if he got in. Should Chrom get in, he should use abilities from the different classes he has to make him more unique.

 

[jaytalks]

So, what can Chrom do? I know he can heal with his Exlated Falchion but so can Roy, he has his lance (which could be used as a B move), he has the Shield of Seals (which Marth also has) and I believe with different classes he can promote to use different weapons?

His capes waves without any air around him. He's also got his blue flame on his sword in some cutscenes,

When did Link ever use a spear/lance? Sure he's used alot but has he ever used a lance. I cannot recall one Zelda game where he has [if I am mistaken I apologize]. Unless you count the rods but those are rods.

Edit: WIND WAKER. He did there kinda.

I think he's referring to Link's boomerang, arrows, bombs, and hookshot/clawshot.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I think he's referring to Link's boomerang, arrows, bombs, and hookshot/clawshot.

Yeah, I thought he was. I was just asking when he ever used a Lance or such [which I guess Toon Link has now that I recall to an extent] but Link isn't the only person who can use more then one weapon was the point i was going for.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Just look at Pit! He has an arsenal to rival Link's!

 

[•Col•]

Just look at Pit! He has an arsenal to rival Link's!

Yes. All the more reason not to make Chrom a character centered around different weapons just to try to make him stick out from Marth/Ike. :|

Also to be fair, Pit has the most ridiculously unique weapons I've ever seen ever. Upperdash arm?????

What is that even supposed to BE?

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

A giant ass yo-yo gauntlet thingie!

I was not considering having Chrom be that variable in moveset; that would just totally gimp him from Marth/Ike. It's something different that the other Lords don't have and is reasonable to represent the lance mastery somewhat, so it wouldn't hurt for a directional attack IMO.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

A giant *** yo-yo gauntlet thingie!

I was not considering having Chrom be that variable in moveset; that would just totally gimp him from Marth/Ike. It's something different that the other Lords don't have and is reasonable to represent the lance mastery somewhat, so it wouldn't hurt for a directional attack IMO.

It would give him a little more variety but then you get Ephraim fans asking. "If he is using a lance in some of his attacks, why not just put Ephraim in?" At the same time. I'm not against it i'm just saying there would be some slight backlash to it most likely.

 

[jaytalks]

If they Chrom a lance as a projectile or something, they can also give Ike a hand axe as well. Marth will have to fend for himself.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Backlash like that would be pretty paltry considering Ephraim does not hold enough relevance to the recent protagonists.

Overall, we have Marth and Ike who are both pretty well received. So its pretty much become expected to have the latest blue-haired sword-wielding lord carry that tradition into the next Smash game. I'm personally leaning towards Chrom.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

If they Chrom a lance as a projectile or something, they can also give Ike a hand axe as well. Marth will have to fend for himself.

They could always give Marth a Levin sword if they wanted for a projectile move lol.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Then Marth is manly enough not to care about bringing some fancy trinkets into battle!

 

[ChronoBound]

So its pretty much become expected to have the latest blue-haired sword-wielding lord carry that tradition into the next Smash game.

I really doubt that. There is going to be a lot cynicism about Chrom being added unless he really distinguishes himself from Marth/Ike which is going to be a challenge. In terms of feel, he does give off the same vibe as Ike which is a strong mercenary like FE character.

Sakurai is not an idiot, which is why I think if Sakurai keep cutting Ike off the table, instead of going with a character he may think will end up with a very mixed reaction (Chrom), he will go with a more unconventional FE newcomer.

 

[Igneous42]

Marth was important in two games. He drove the plot alongside Nyna.

Ike was important in both of his games. He drove the plot alongside Elincia and Micaiah.

Chrom drives the plot for five maps (Prologue - Ch.4). Then Emmeryn steals it (Ch.6-9), then Gangrel (Ch.10-11), then Walhart (Ch.12-20), then Avatar and Lucina steal it until the end of the game (21-endgame).

I'm not sure what connection you're seeing.

I'm sorry but I can't buy that logic, it's like saying Link was totally unimportant to Twilight Princess because Midna had such a strong presence, and really did steal a lot of the show. Chrom is directly involved in the events of pretty much every chapter, even the child recruitment ones are opened and closed with comments from Chrom in most cases. More than one character can have a strong presence in scenes. Same can't be said for any of those characters, even Robin. I can see the viewpoint that he might not be the most exciting or interesting character but you can't just sweep the fact that he is the main protagonist under the rug, he drives the plot and without him they would have failed, just like they did in the future. And how does Lucina steal the show till the end of the game? After she is revealed her importance is greatly diminished she makes a few comments here and there and really the only big thing she does is her "judgement" scene which pretty much is there for added drama and doesn't actually have an affect whatsoever. Other than that she just kind of runs around going "oh gods it's grima."

As far as move set potential for either Chrom or Lucina rather than focusing soley on weapons they can use a better place to look is the skill system. From what I understand (haven't played all the Fire Emblem) Awakening was the fist game is the series where you really had the capability to make a deeper custom skill set by re-classing and such. Seems like in addition to the whole dual guard and pairing up concept this was one of the other different features that Awakening introduced. I think there are a couple cool ways you could implement this. Pretty easy to see how that would work but would still set him apart from the other lords a bit. A more interesting concept to me would be something similar to the idea that Kikaru posted a few pages back but more expanded. Chrom's down B could be "equip skill" and depending on which skill you have equipped a number of things can change. These are just basic ideas I've though up on a whim so I'm sure other people could come up with better ideas for this concept here are a few examples (excuse my butchering of the proper move connotations, I've not familiarized myself with the proper way to write them)

Aether: The default equipped skill, all this would do would make Chrom's Up Special work similar to how it did in game. On successful hit it would heal a small amount of % and essentially put a debuff on whoever it hit "reducing their defense" which in smash terms would mean they take more % from attacks (from all sources, not just Chrom) it wouldn't be an overly long debuff but even a 5-10 sec debuff like that could be useful.

Counter: When counter is equipped all physical attacks done to Chrom do a % back to the attacker. The tradeoff for this could either be something like ranged attacks now do more damage or that Chrom loses a theoretical ranged attack. For this example we'll say his side special is a Lance Throw, if you have counter equipped you lost the lance throw and your side special is replaced with just a lance thrust.

Pavise: Take half % from attacks but makes Chrom move slower (without gaining any power). Alternatively this could replace one of his other moves when equipped and instead be an active skill similar to Pit's Mirror shield except without the reflect property.

Limit Breaker: Chrom breaks his limits, pretty much all his attributes are increased slightly but he damages himself on attacks.

Galeforce: All Chrom's attacks do double % and Chrom moves faster however moves now no longer do any knock-back and Chrom is lighter.

Really basic ideas for now but something along those lines focusing more on the Skill system than what weapon he used would both make him more unique and represent a pretty big part of Awakening. It might come off as kind of gimmicky but apparently a character has to be in order to be unique in some people's opinion. Obviously an idea like this could work just as well for Lucina too.

 

[FalKoopa]

Man, I'm having trouble keeping up with the discussion...

I'm quite confident on Ike staying now. He has a unique moveset, and the unique character ever cut was from a well-represented franchise (Pokémon). And haven't yet seen a case of a character taking on another's moveset.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Man, I'm having trouble keeping up with the discussion...

I'm quite confident on Ike staying now. He has a unique moveset, and the unique character ever cut was from a well-represented franchise (Pokémon). And haven't yet seen a case of a character taking on another's moveset.

I have no idea why people say Ike is for sure gone, due to the very things you just said Fal. I'm confident in his return as well.

 

[Mirron]

Personally I'd be surprised if Ike is cut as well, if just because I think Fire Emblem warrants three characters at least. Who the third character will be (Chrom, Roy, Lucina, Robin, other Awakening characters typically) is mildly up in the air, but the presence of a third character seems all but assured. Unless they feel like cutting Ike to add two new characters, which would be a silly move, it's just a matter of who else would be added.

I do think that Lucina, popular or not, would be a poor decision. If Chrom has a hard time distinguishing himself from Marth/Ike mechanically, I don't see why Lucina would fare any better. I personally think they can distinguish them from the rest, just commenting on how it seems a bit odd that she'd be more likely from that stance. She has far less options than Chrom does for moveset potential unless we take Reclass into effect, which really is a tricky subject to get any idea on how they'd handle it.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Personally I'd be surprised if Ike is cut as well, if just because I think Fire Emblem warrants three characters at least. Who the third character will be (Chrom, Roy, Lucina, Robin, other Awakening characters typically) is mildly up in the air, but the presence of a third character seems all but assured. Unless they feel like cutting Ike to add two new characters, which would be a silly move, it's just a matter of who else would be added.

I do think that Lucina, popular or not, would be a poor decision. If Chrom has a hard time distinguishing himself from Marth/Ike mechanically, I don't see why Lucina would fare any better. I personally think they can distinguish them from the rest, just commenting on how it seems a bit odd that she'd be more likely from that stance. She has far less options than Chrom does for moveset potential unless we take Reclass into effect, which really is a tricky subject to get any idea on how they'd handle it.

ThatWasPeachy had a pretty good idea for a unique Lucina moveset here http://smashboards.com/threads/luci...poils-spoil-alert.335262/page-6#post-15661504

Figured I'd share it.

 

[Mirron]

I never said she couldn't have a unique moveset. I'm just saying that if Chrom is supposedly going to have a hard time being unique compared to Marth/Ike, Lucina isn't likely to do much better. I'm not saying either Lucina or Chrom can't be unique, I just find it weird that more tend to point that out as a detractor for Chrom.

 

[Ussi]

All they have to do to make Chrom unique... Give him stab oriented attacks. Marth/Ike all about dem slashes (minus Marth's shield breaker, usmash, and dtilt)

 

[FalKoopa]

To be honest, I'd like Marth to have stabbing attacks, actually. The shield breaker was a step in the right direction.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yeah, the stabs work for Marth better as he has a Rapier.

Chrom has more of a broadsword so slashes work for him.

Ike could hit with the handle of his blade for a pummel. I know that ain't happening, but that would be awesome!

 

[Ussi]

I like my man head collision of 3% damage

Pretty sure Marth and Chrom use the same weapon... Its got the same name and Chrom is a descent of Marth in the first place so it wouldn't be a stretch Marth's weapon was just passed down.

Also every sword lord but Ike uses a rapier at some point.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Yeah, the stabs work for Marth better as he has a Rapier.

Marth does not utilize the rapier, but the Falchion, which is more akin to a claymore or longsword.

It's ironic that the weapon called Falchion is not an actual falchion.

 

[LaniusShrike]

While Marth's sword is a little too hefty to be an actual rapier, I think that it's close enough to be used as one. If they change Marth's design to match Awakening, they could easily slim down the sword and give him more of a fencing style. I think that'd go a long way towards differentiating the swordsmen, and it definitely fits his noble persona.

(still a little bigger than a rapier, but close enough)

... I think we can all agree that "Falchion" is a really dumb name for their legendary sword.
It's not like they didn't have options.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_swords
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_magical_weapons

@Ussi
While Chrom and Marth both have the legendary "Falchion" they're actually different builds. While the divinely crafted blade is unbreakable, the hilt itself wears down over time so the sword had to be remade.

At least, that's the canon explanation. It doesn't actually make sense, seeing as the blade is clearly different between the two.

 

[Ussi]

From what I can see. The hilt (yellow part) just happens to stretch across the blade as a thin line.

 

[FlareHabanero]

By the way, that artwork depicts Marth using a rapier, not the Falchion.

 

[LaniusShrike]

By the way, that artwork depicts Marth using a rapier, not the Falchion.

Ah shoot, good catch. I was just assuming, didn't pay much attention to it.

Regardless, I support Marth turning into more of a fencer, even if his weapon isn't designed for it. It's essentially just an excessively large rapier and, well, it's all pretty anime anyway.

Also, with stabs instead of slashes, they could reasonably bring back Marth's melee range without it seeming so OP.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Also every sword lord but Ike uses a rapier at some point.

Sigurd, Seliph [Celice] and Leif do not get their own unique rapier. Although Leif can use rapier's in his game. Its the one game where any sword user can use one. And considering anyone who is dismounted in Leif's game via the dismount mechanic can only use swords even if they don't use them mounted.. Haha

Edit: As Falkoopa said, Lyn doesn't either

 

[FalKoopa]

Also every sword lord but Ike uses a rapier at some point.

I don't recall Lyn using a Rapier...

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I don't recall Lyn using a Rapier...

Right she doesn't either haha, She uses that super Katana the Mani Katti! I derped there for a moment.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I don't recall Lyn using a Rapier...

Hector doesn't use one either.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Hector doesn't use one either.

Well the dude did at least say "every sword lord" not "every lord" still wrong either way haha.

 

[FalKoopa]

Hector doesn't use one either.

Is Hector a sword lord? Never knew.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Is Hector a sword lord? Never knew.

I guess he ment from the fact that Hector gains a sword on promotion. I still say he is more of an Axe lord though.