You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[IsmaR]

Someone is going to make a fanfiction out of all this I'm sure.

I've been in a slump recently, but I'll bring up the idea at my next book club meeting.

Girls in Swimsuits. May not be safe for work.

Meanwhile, Chrom is never promoted for the game. The only time someone other than Lucina gets special recognition for marketting is Tharja, who is getting a figurine.

I can't imagine why.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Thinking about it, especially in light of the first set of newcomers unveiled for Smash 4. My guess that if Ike returns, Sakurai will most likely be going with either My Unit or Anna for a proper FE newcomer. I think of the three main heroes for FE13, My Unit definitely has more distinction to him/her aesthetically and ability wise than Chrom/Lucina (while also giving those people possibly a female FE character). Its also possible Sakurai and/or IS could have come up with the idea to add in Anna as someone that could not only rep FE13 but the series as a whole. If Sakurai could come up with something like the Wii Fit Trainer as a playable character, its certainly possible that the thought of Anna becoming a playable character has at least been entertained.

Or we can get a Nana-Popo style team with Chrom and Lucina, if Sakarai can fix the Nana-Popo problem, as our 4th character.

 

[Jaedrik]

Or we can get a Nana-Popo style team with Chrom and Lucina, if Sakarai can fix the Nana-Popo problem, as our 4th character.

Or we could get Walhart on a horse. With massive flinch resist.

 

[•Col•]

Instead we got people thinking that Roy was Marth's boyfriend.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Like I said before, I might have a change of heart regarding to Chrom (alternatively Lucina) if they can indeed make something compelling out of the character. But at the same time, there is that sense of doubt plaguing my mind that's causing all this to be a bit of a complicated conundrum. I would be a hypocrite by saying Chrom (or Lucina) wouldn't work out at all considering his general archetype, despite me being the same person that would defend something like that inherently. It's probably because Chrom (or Lucina) is so similar to the characters we already have being the culprit, which is causing a strong judgement over being unappealing.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Four reps would be hella sweet. You could accommodate more room for a lot of characters. Do you really think Fire Emblem is as 'obscure' to the rest of the world for that to happen? People generally received each lord well though, so why the hell not?

In Roy's case, wouldn't Chrom be in his situation as the 'untested' lord if he were to get in? There have also been distinctions between his abilities and weapon masteries compared to Ike. Like his Aether having a life steal effect and having a different slash motion or his ability to use lances/spears at Great Lord. Unless they declone Roy and apply the redesign, I would welcome him back. Plus a potential remake and aesthetic appeal on his hand. But currently, I only see veteran status being the thing he's got. Not to say it isn't possible to make him at least a Falco/Wolf.

I would say Lucina is down for the count, taking up the visage of Marth. However, she's been well received in the story and she also ranks up to Great Lord, essentially putting her on par with Chrom on movesets.

I thought Sakurai went to Intelligent Systems to see which character would be best to represent. We got Ike, who also was the lord for two games. Wouldn't flavor of installment come into play for Chrom? Although I've heard things about Robin and Tharja being recommended by FE13's director.

 

[Mirron]

Er... I believe Lucina's Great Lord is different from Chrom's. So I don't think it'd result in equal moveset potential. As well, Ike's Aether has the same Sol effect as Chrom's, just as they both share Luna. Ike doesn't do that with Aether in Smash, probably because they don't tend to do easy healing. I do think Chrom should use the Fire Emblem if he gets in though, it is the title of the series after all.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Lucina also is shown alot on FE13 merchandise and etc., like being on the soundtrack cover, and art book it seems IS considers her more popular. Chrom on the other hand has really only appeared on the cover of the game, really.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Yet there are people out there that will state that Chrom is more popular then Lucina, which is a crock of ****.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Or being the main focus of the game for like 13 chapters during which Lucina's identity is rogue with an encounter here and there.

 

[Deleted member]

The ironic thing is that Roy vs. Chrom/Lucina is basically a redux of Roy vs. Sigurd/Celice. FE4 was definitely a very popular and well-received game (its the only other FE game in Japan to have reached the 500K milestone aside from FE3), and still among the most popular games in the series in Japan. Sigurd/Chrom are basically masculine blue-haired swordsmen, while Celice/Lucina are feminine blue-haired lords. Sakurai went with the unproven Roy over characters from the very well-received FE4.

While Sakurai said that it was his fire sword that made him stand out more from other possible choices for a second character, I think he felt Roy aesthetically contrasted more with Marth than other lords at the time. I mean I think if we got Sigurd or Celice we would have had most people thinking Sigurd was Marth's dad, or that Celice was Marth's sister.

I think Sakurai still values characters that contrast well with the rest of the roster, and Sakurai saying that no characters have been cut yet (which means Ike could very well be on Sakurai's initial roster), makes me think him and Intelligent Systems had a detailed discussion with the problems of representing Fire Emblem in Smash Bros. Keep in mind too, Sakurai himself is also a big fan of the FE series (he has a copy of FE3 downloaded onto his Virtual Console, and hosted the Iwata Asks for FE11). I am sure Sakurai understands and knows that FE13 was the biggest success the series has had since the GBA days, but also knows of the the massive demand for Roy's return, and the huge backlash from the fans that Ike's removal would bring. I also think Sakurai knows that characters like Roy/Ike (as well as probably Chom/Lucina/FE13's My Unit) won't appear in another game in the series (outside of crossover games and possibly a remake in the case of Roy).

I think Sakurai also understands that the traditional lord arche-type (sword-wielding lord with a cape) has been explored within Smash Bros. quite a bit, and perhaps wants to explore other things the series could bring. I think ideally Sakurai wants FE to have four characters (Marth, Roy, Ike, and a newcomer showcasing something new with the FE series that has not been seen before in Smash Bros.), but whether it will come down to time constraints and possibly hardware restrictions for the 3DS.

Thinking about it, especially in light of the first set of newcomers unveiled for Smash 4. My guess that if Ike returns, Sakurai will most likely be going with either My Unit or Anna for a proper FE newcomer. I think of the three main heroes for FE13, My Unit definitely has more distinction to him/her aesthetically and ability wise than Chrom/Lucina (while also giving those people possibly a female FE character). Its also possible Sakurai and/or IS could have come up with the idea to add in Anna as someone that could not only rep FE13 but the series as a whole. If Sakurai could come up with something like the Wii Fit Trainer as a playable character, its certainly possible that the thought of Anna becoming a playable character has at least been entertained.

Interesting enough, should Roy return, he would aesthetically contrast from the rest of the cast even more if he returned with his DLC costume. Compare Marth, Ike and Roy in his FE13 re-design and you'll notice that they look very different from each other whereas if you were to compare Marth, Ike and Chrom there's obvious similarities here.

I'm also confident that Sakurai will do his very best to bring Ike back to the roster and I do believe that Sakurai was alluding to at least Brawl veterans when he said he hadn't cut anyone yet (and arguably Melee veterans as well) along with whatever newcomers the team has planned. Knowing the huge back lash that will result form Ike's cut, I doubt Sakurai would outright replace Ike with Chrom.

 

[kikaru]

If I had it my way I'd have Owain be the third rep swordhands down. Definitely my favorite character in the whole series.

 

[Starbound]

chrom is the main focus of the game for 13 chapters?

no i'm fairly certain that's emmeryn.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Here's how it goes for main character for the story and when.
Chrom and Avatar- Prologue to Ch. 3
Emmeryn Ch.4 to Ch.13
Lucina/children Characters/Walhart Ch. 14 to Ch. 20
Avatar/Lucina/Spotpass Ch. 21 to Endgame/DLC

 

[jaytalks]

Sorry if there's another discussion of focus here, fellow emblemniers! But I would just like to hear some thoughts about something I'm thinking of pertaining to SSB4 and Fire Emblem.

I'm currently composing a roster prediction. After pondering it over, I am currently at the position of including Marth, Chrom, and Robin (My Unit, Avatar, Tactician, Grandmaster, Idunfackinknowwhattocallit). I decided that three slots is reasonable for Fire Emblem now due to the success of Awakening. However, this leaves out some other notable contenders, such as Roy and Ike.

So, what are the good and bad things about this? It's my decision in the end.

Keep Ike as one of your picks. There is no reason to not include him if there is three reps, ad he has had the last home console release in the series, and could represent RD form, further his contrasts with other lords by being a strong, heavy, and slightly slow character. And choose one FE Awakening Rep. I would keep in mind that Robin would either have to be depicted with his/her hood, and probably have a gender revealed due to voice acting. If Robin didn't have a hood, what would they look like. For Chrom, I would consider how he looks in relation to Ike and Marth and if he can be properly differentiate. I would leave out Roy since nothing has changed for him in terms of positioning in the series, and he was excluded from Brawl. Nothing personal against him. He is the least wanted out of three returning Smash veterans according to Shortie's poll here on Smash boards.

I also recommend adding Lucina to the mix of who you consider for Awakening rep. She is depicted as the face of Awakening on cover of the Knights of Iris artbook and soundtrack. She also shares the box art with Chrom and other media like the intro with all three main characters. I think Nintendo and IS know that she might be more popular than Chrom. Visually, she is not similar to Marth in both his DS Remake form and his Smash model, both of which they would probably use since Sakurai uses main appearances for characters (see Mega Man and Link). She also has that long blue hair. Marth was made to look similar in art for Awakening. Her double handed, stabbing focused sword style would be a change of pace, as well as her different stance.

 

[ChronoBound]

Yet there are people out there that will state that Chrom is more popular then Lucina, which is a crock of ****.

Chrom does have more requests to be in Smash Bros. than Lucina does definitely. I think even Lyn has more requests than Lucina does. Lucina is really handicapped by her strong similarities to Marth in regards to Smash Bros. popularity.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Who was talking about Super Smash Bros.? We were talking about Fire Emblem, you know the series Chrom and Lucina come from?

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Chrom does have more requests to be in Smash Bros. than Lucina does definitely. I think even Lyn has more requests than Lucina does. Lucina is really handicapped by her strong similarities to Marth in regards to Smash Bros. popularity.

Keep in mind popularity isn't everything.

 

[ChronoBound]

Aether having a life steal effect

Ike's Aether had that too.

 

[jaytalks]

Chrom does have more requests to be in Smash Bros. than Lucina does definitely. I think even Lyn has more requests than Lucina does. Lucina is really handicapped by her strong similarities to Marth in regards to Smash Bros. popularity.

I think Lucina is more popular with the Awakening and FE fanbase, but not the FE Smash community. She also handicapped by the fact that she is walking spoiler, so there less awareness of her and her story, and there is an aversion to it for people who might want to play Awakening but havent gotten it.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think Lucina is more popular with the Awakening and FE fanbase, but not the FE Smash community. She also handicapped by the fact that she is walking spoiler, so there less awareness of her and her story, and there is an aversion to it for people who might want to play Awakening but havent gotten it.

Being a walking spoiler means nothing.

 

[ChronoBound]

She also handicapped by the fact that she is walking spoiler, so there less awareness of her and her story, and there is an aversion to it for people who might want to play Awakening but havent gotten it.

Sakurai having Sheik shows his does not care about spoilers. Ocarina of Time was only around 2.5 years old when he confirmed Sheik for Melee.

 

[jaytalks]

Sakurai having Sheik shows his does not care about spoilers. Ocarina of Time was only around 2.5 years old when he confirmed Sheik for Melee.

Being a walking spoiler means nothing.

I meant handicapped in getting fan requests.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I meant handicapped in getting fan requests.

Doesn't change my point.

Sheik was actually requested for Melee. No where near Ganondorf. But still requested quite a bit.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Sakurai having Sheik shows his does not care about spoilers. Ocarina of Time was only around 2.5 years old when he confirmed Sheik for Melee.

Not to mention all of the spoilers for Mother 3 even if it wasn't translated officially.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Sakurai having Sheik shows his does not care about spoilers. Ocarina of Time was only around 2.5 years old when he confirmed Sheik for Melee.

Also to add on that, Awakening came out in early 2012 in Japan if I'm certain, Smash should come out around mid 2014. so 2.5 years

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

So basically, Chrom is a tired archetype that's been beaten to death in Smash despite two similar characters already getting in with moveset variances?

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Being a walking spoiler means nothing.

Sakurai having Sheik shows his does not care about spoilers. Ocarina of Time was only around 2.5 years old when he confirmed Sheik for Melee.

Doesn't change my point.

Sheik was actually requested for Melee. No where near Ganondorf. But still requested quite a bit.

Reading all of this, greatly reassures me of Lucina inclusion, since Sakurai done it before.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

So basically, Chrom is a tired archetype that's been beaten to death in Smash despite two similar characters already getting in with moveset variances?

That's why most people, don't want Chrom, too similar.

 

[Deleted member]

Does anyone else think that if Chrom gets in that he'd be a starter? I know it technically doesn't matter if you have to be unlocked or not but I'd feel as if he gets in that he'll be one of the starters announced.

Also to add on that, Awakening came out in early 2012 in Japan if I'm certain, Smash should come out around mid 2014. so 2.5 years

More likely late 2014 since each game has been progressively longer in development.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Chrom and Lucina do have their cutscenes they could get moves from like "Two Falchions" and such. At least for inspiration for movesets if one of the 2 is considered.

 

[Starbound]

So basically, Chrom is a tired archetype that's been beaten to death in Smash despite two similar characters already getting in with moveset variances?

Marth was important in two games. He drove the plot alongside Nyna.

Ike was important in both of his games. He drove the plot alongside Elincia and Micaiah.

Chrom drives the plot for five maps (Prologue - Ch.4). Then Emmeryn steals it (Ch.6-9), then Gangrel (Ch.10-11), then Walhart (Ch.12-20), then Avatar and Lucina steal it until the end of the game (21-endgame).

I'm not sure what connection you're seeing.

 

[ChronoBound]

Reading all of this, greatly reassures me of Lucina inclusion, since Sakurai done it before.

As I said before, Lucina has worse problems than Chrom when standing out in comparison to FE characters already in Smash Bros. That's the primary reason why interest in her is as low as it is. Chrom would have to bump out Ike (which is feasible, but a bad move), Lucina would have to bump out Marth which is basically impossible.

 

[kikaru]

I feel like whoever the third character is + Marth would be unlockable. Marth has always been unlockable and it'd be a good surprise for people to have the third character be unlockable as well. Most everyone is familiar with Ike so he'd probably be a safe starter.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I feel like whoever the third character is + Marth would be unlockable. Marth has always been unlockable and it'd be a good surprise for people to have the third character be unlockable as well. Most everyone is familiar with Ike so he'd probably be a safe starter.

Doesn't hurt that Ike was a starter already. Which was pretty cool, I think he'd still be one if/when he returns.

 

[Deleted member]

So, what can Chrom do? I know he can heal with his Exlated Falchion but so can Roy, he has his lance (which could be used as a B move), he has the Shield of Seals (which Marth also has) and I believe with different classes he can promote to use different weapons?

 

[FlareHabanero]

So basically, Chrom is a tired archetype that's been beaten to death in Smash despite two similar characters already getting in with moveset variances?

The inclusion of both Marth and Ike is probably the reason why Chrom seems like such an unappealing option, due to both of those characters essentially taking both of Chrom's potential niches. I hypothesize if either never appeared in Super Smash Bros., Chrom would be more welcomed with open arms.

 

[jaytalks]

Doesn't change my point.

Sheik was actually requested for Melee. No where near Ganondorf. But still requested quite a bit.

Not to mention all of the spoilers for Mother 3 even if it wasn't translated officially.

Fair enough. I think Lucina is requested a fair amount for a character with a franchise with as many different characters and protagonists as FE. FE is also a much smaller franchise than Zelda. I don't recall Sheik or Zelda ranking in the the Dojo Melee poll.

I think Nintendo knew they weren't going to bring over Mother 3. I am certain Nintendo doesn't care about spoilers. I was referring to fan requests. It's much easier to "bandwagon" Chrom as your FE rep if you havent played the game rather than Lucina.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think Roy is most likely a hidden a character (probably will end up being among the last characters unlocked). Ike (if he returns) has a good chance of being a hidden character this time. Marth really should be promoted to a starter character.

Any true newcomer (Chrom, Lucina, My Unit, Anna), assuming a true FE newcomer happens, will be a starter and shown on the Dojo before Smash 4's release.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

So, what can Chrom do? I know he can heal with his Exlated Falchion but so can Roy, he has his lance (which could be used as a B move), he has the Shield of Seals (which Marth also has) and I believe with different classes he can promote to use different weapons?

Awakening had a reclass feature with second seals. Chrom could become an archer to go sniper or bow knight. Or Cavalier to go Paladin or Great Knight.

Chrom also has some fancy swordsmanship in Awakenings cutscenes they could use possibly.