You get no Sympathy in a "Fire Emblem Discussion"

[ChronoBound]

Because Chrom and Lucina seem really redundant to add. They really don't have any distinctive attributes about them. Simply saying "FE13 sold a butt ton, so it a playable character is mandatory" is not going to cut it.

I really think Ike and Chrom being together is an unlikely scenario after what Sakurai has said.

 

[jaytalks]

Because Chrom and Lucina seem really redundant to add. They really don't have any distinctive attributes about them. Simply saying "FE13 sold a butt ton, so it a playable character is mandatory" is not going to cut it.

I really think Ike and Chrom being together is an unlikely scenario after what Sakurai has said.

I can see the argument with Lucina (even if I don't agree with it). Lucina fights more like Chrom than Marth, and her stance is complete different than both of them, as she hold the sword with two hands. She also includes more stabs. But her outfit's similarities to Marth creates the perception that she fights like Marth. But I don't really see the argument with Chrom. Chrom fights nothing like Ike. Ike is really rough and is all about strength. He become slower relative in RD, and much more muscle bound (hence stronger). Even then, the nature of their strikes and role as a lord are really different. The only similarity I see is the blue hair. You can even give them blue flames. It's not present in gameplay but is present in cutscenes.

There really arent that many similarities between Chrom and Ike.

 

[ChronoBound]

IChrom fights nothing like Ike.

There really arent that many similarities between Chrom and Ike.

I think you are letting your pro-Chrom bias blind you. Ike during FE9 was not about strength, he had very high growths in all stats. It would have made just as much sense to make Ike a speed character a power character, but due to balance obviously you can't make a character in a fighting game both very fast and very powerful. As it stands, Chrom is just as strong (and muscular!) as Ike is.

You really would have to be blind not to notice the similarities between Chrom and Ike. Both lords have a very strong mercenary motif with their designs (with Chrom even sharing the completely bare arm design with FE10 Ike, and sharing the similar breast plate as FE9/FE10 Ike). Heck, Chrom was originally going to have the same color scheme as Ike was according to his concept art, and strikes a pose similar to Ike for his Dojo unveil.

Both lords are also notable for the skill of Aether, and possess the "Quick Draw" (Ike's side-b) critical animation.

 

[Deleted member]

I think that Sakurai's statement on cuts and deciding a roster means that there will be cuts to a sizable degree, probably just a little lower or around the same level with Brawl's cuts to the Melee roster. The stress to the brink of death statement indicates to me that he is still making tough choices on the roster, not that there will be less cuts. And there is also that time he said: We Don't Have Time To Bring All Characters Back

That article did not state anything about there being cuts from the Brawl roster, just that not every character from the previous games will return. This extends to Melee veterans as well, so he could just be saying that he doesn't have the resource to bring back characters like Young Link and Pichu back to the initial roster (though that's not to say Pichu couldn't appear as DLC). Also compare the attitude from cuts he had during pre-Brawl and compare them to now. Take a look at SamuraiPanda's translation all the way back in 2006:

#81-90: Ah yes, my big translation. This is the translation that started this all. I cut down the original post a bit because it was so long:

After my initial quick translation that I posted on GameFAQs, I was bombarded with people shouting "LIAR! NOT TRUE! STFU TROLLER!" so I decided to post a full translation.

"In order to prove you naysayers wrong, here is a full, nearly exact, translation of what he said. My own personal commentary is provided in the [ ].

DISCLAIMER: Sakurai uses very ambiguous language in his response. So try not to nitpick the English in this passage too much.

"Sorry. I'm not very smart but I can't tell a lie so I'm just going to write it.
As for the previous game's characters, some of them will disappear. Definitely.

For the last game, we struggled to assemble 26 characters. We tried really hard and unintentionally reached that number.

But, although you'll see characters from the last game, this time, on a significant scale [Yes, this is exact], they will be remade. It is this sort of thing [This sentence is slang, so there really isn't a good English translation for it].

For argument's sake, no matter how much staff there is, with just manpower we can’t just put in everything, and as my own job [read: workload] does not decrease, there is a limit.

But, the consumer’s desired things to be included [There really isn’t a good English equivalent for that word] are weeeeell understood. You will be [he doesn’t give a subject to the sentence, so I’m using ‘you’] happy regarding the adapted characters moving around on different stages as well [The email he is responding to complained about how there are only 3 stages from SSB that are stages in SSBM, so I guess this infers that there wont be a whole lot of previous stages].

So, we will once again struggle to create characters. I cannot promise you anything other than that.”

And that is exactly what Sakurai said. Hope you guys enjoy the info ^_^ "

Sakurai said straight up that characters from the last game were disappearing. He doesn't really stress on trying to keep as many characters in from the roster as possible but promised that those who would make it would be remade.

Compare that to his attitude towards cuts he's shown so far. Note that not only has he not confirmed cuts from Brawl, but also thinks a lot more about the fans. He realize just how much it hurts to see characters axed and stresses about trying to get as many characters in as he can. Already, he's showing much less willingness to axe characters and has publicly apologize beforehand for cuts should they happen.

It is for this reason why I consider anymore than three cuts to be very unlikely and that I definitely do not see more than four. The only cuts I see happening for reasons other than time constraints are Snake, Sonic and Toon Link (and even then, I have doubts about the latter two being axed). If Lucario and Ike were to be cut, it would be due to time constraints and only time constraints and should DLC happen, they'll be brought back anyway.

I see DLC unlikely at this point, but that could really change. But Nintendo's general policy has been everything should already be in the release; coincidentally, Awakening could have probably changed that.

Nintendo has been more open to DLC recently. See the release of New Super Luigi U, which is DLC for New Super Mario Bros. U. They like the concept of DLC, but not DLC that are developed beforehand (like on-disc DLC Capcom has used on many occasions).

Sakurai has also commented about not being opposed to DLCs and liking DLCs like Fallout 3. While he has definitely not confirmed DLC, he hasn't ruled them out yet after the game release. He'll likely use DLC to finish up characters he wants to see along with other planned but unfinished ideas should he use them. I'd say the chances of DLC occurring are 50/50; depends on if Sakurai has anything major he wanted to add but couldn't due to time constraints (characters, stages, etc).

I don't see Roy as getting the late add unless he's a clone again, or even just a barely semi-clone like Ganondorf in Brawl. But Roy's best chances would be to somehow beat out Ike as the second returning Smash Fighter, along with the FE 13 rep. I feel as Roy and other cut Melee characters (really just him and Mewtwo) contend with the Brawl veterans from their series.

I don't get why he would pass on Chrom (or Lucina) in that situation. In order to bring in a new audience, and to avoid cutting a character, he would leave Ike and Marth and add the FE13 rep.

There has been a trajectory of clones becoming more unique with each game. Brawl "clones" were more unique that Melee clones. The only Brawl "clone" that could be argued as one is Toon Link and even then his play style stands out more than Young Link did in Melee and he looks more differently. SSB4's "clones" will probably be even more unique than the ones from Brawl. If Roy returned, I'd expect him to be at least as unique as Falco and I wouldn't be surprised if he hit around if not above Wolf's level of uniqueness.

Also, Chrom/Lucina is not going to bring a new audience to Smash. Most people who play Fire Emblem play Smash anyway and it's not like people are going to be running out to buy Smash for one of these two.

 

[jaytalks]

I think you are letting your pro-Chrom bias blind you. Ike during FE9 was not about strength, he had very high growths in all stats. It would have made just as much sense to make Ike a speed character a power character, but due to balance obviously you can't make a character in a fighting game both very fast and very powerful. As it stands, Chrom is just as strong (and muscular!) as Ike is.

You really would have to be blind not to notice the similarities between Chrom and Ike. Both lords have a very strong mercenary motif with their designs (with Chrom even sharing the completely bare arm design with FE10 Ike, and sharing the similar breast plate as FE9/FE10 Ike). Heck, Chrom was originally going to have the same color scheme as Ike was according to his concept art, and strikes a pose similar to Ike for his Dojo unveil.

Both lords are also notable for the skill of Aether, and possess the "Quick Draw" (Ike's side-b) critical animation.

I'm not really pro-Chrom per se, I consider myself more pro-Lucina, but I am definitely big FE13 fan over the FE7 through FE11, and would prefer the game to be represented. Ike was noticeable stronger than other lords in the series. For a comparison, I believe he was more like Hector than Eliwood. I believe strength was his more noticeable stat due to fact that generally lords are weaker, especially if they wield swords. I never said he was slow though in Path of Radiance. Chrom is fairly even in his stats, with none being stronger. Relative to other characters in the game, he is not considered a strong character within the game. Ike has a definite roughness though that differentiate their two styles.

In RD, I said he became slower relative to the characters in the game. Within the art he is more noticeable muscular, and his strength growths reflect that. He is also has a smaller speed growth stat. Both Ike and Chrom share the mercenary motif, but Marth and Roy share the basic lord motif (which Marth started). Virtually all lords have a base motif. Concept art is very different than in game appearance. That's like looking at a game before its done, or looking through a game's unused data for facts. It's incomplete picture, but most importantly it's not the end product.

The Aether skill has very different animations in both games. There is nothing wrong with sharing a skill (which appears to me be shared among Lords, as Lucina has it as well). Its like how Luigi and Mario have the spin attack, but both do it differently.

That article did not state anything about there being cuts from the Brawl roster, just that not every character from the previous games will return. This extends to Melee veterans as well, so he could just be saying that he doesn't have the resource to bring back characters like Young Link and Pichu back to the initial roster (though that's not to say Pichu couldn't appear as DLC). Also compare the attitude from cuts he had during pre-Brawl and compare them to now. Take a look at SamuraiPanda's translation all the way back in 2006:Sakurai said straight up that characters from the last game were disappearing. He doesn't really stress on trying to keep as many characters in from the roster as possible but promised that those who would make it would be remade.

Compare that to his attitude towards cuts he's shown so far. Note that not only has he not confirmed cuts from Brawl, but also thinks a lot more about the fans. He realize just how much it hurts to see characters axed and stresses about trying to get as many characters in as he can. Already, he's showing much less willingness to axe characters and has publicly apologize beforehand for cuts should they happen.

It is for this reason why I consider anymore than three cuts to be very unlikely and that I definitely do not see more than four. The only cuts I see happening for reasons other than time constraints are Snake, Sonic and Toon Link (and even then, I have doubts about the latter two being axed). If Lucario and Ike were to be cut, it would be due to time constraints and only time constraints and should DLC happen, they'll be brought back anyway.Nintendo has been more open to DLC recently. See the release of New Super Luigi U, which is DLC for New Super Mario Bros. U. They like the concept of DLC, but not DLC that are developed beforehand (like on-disc DLC Capcom has used on many occasions).

Sakurai has also commented about not being opposed to DLCs and liking DLCs like Fallout 3. While he has definitely not confirmed DLC, he hasn't ruled them out yet after the game release. He'll likely use DLC to finish up characters he wants to see along with other planned but unfinished ideas should he use them. I'd say the chances of DLC occurring are 50/50; depends on if Sakurai has anything major he wanted to add but couldn't due to time constraints (characters, stages, etc).There has been a trajectory of clones becoming more unique with each game. Brawl "clones" were more unique that Melee clones. The only Brawl "clone" that could be argued as one is Toon Link and even then his play style stands out more than Young Link did in Melee and he looks more differently. SSB4's "clones" will probably be even more unique than the ones from Brawl. If Roy returned, I'd expect him to be at least as unique as Falco and I wouldn't be surprised if he hit around if not above Wolf's level of uniqueness.

Also, Chrom/Lucina is not going to bring a new audience to Smash. Most people who play Fire Emblem play Smash anyway and it's not like people are going to be running out to buy Smash for one of these two.

I understand what you're saying about cuts and there is a definite difference in tone. I can see how it's possible we get less cuts, even likely, which is good.. I also think there won't be too many Melee returners. He also doesn't specifically mentions he's talk about Melee characters. This could also be a change in approach due to how the cuts to Melee roster were received.

I was commenting on Nintendo's general policy only. Which has changed since Fire Emblem Awakening. New Luigi U is another example of their changing stance. I think Sakurai's comments are also a sign of the changing times, perhaps more than his personal feelings. Part of me hopes they change it for more characters, but I also generally don't like DLC as I like Nintendo's old policy. It's ok if its produced after the game is finished, but with undertaking like Smash characters seems to be, I would expect too much and more things like stage or modes. However, cut returners who didn't make it in probably have a good chance as DLC as well. I can see clones getting more unique, but I generally use clone to refer to using the same basic special moveset, and I don't use it in a pejorative way. I hope if Roy were to return as DLC, he would be appropriately different.

I really disagree with this statement, as it undermine the haracters in Smash and really underestimates the FE series audience. Sakurai's previous criteria for characters has been "The character's inclusion must make people want to buy the game." The FE series is a turnbased strategy JRPG. As a genre, it doesn't have a great deal of crossover with a party fighting game. Although the series was brought exposure and to the US with the help of Smash, it has its own fanbase outside of Smash. As the best selling in game in FE (it matters for this criteria), it has the biggest audience to make people buy the game. Lucina and Chrom are great characters very popular with FE13 fans, so they would be the characters FE 13 would most buy the game for. Lucina and Chrom are the character in FE that are most likely to get people buy the game if you use data.

 

[ChronoBound]

Lucina and Chrom are great characters very popular with FE13 fans, so they would be the characters FE 13 would most buy the game for. Lucina and Chrom are the character in FE that are most likely to get people buy the game if you use data.

You said a whole lot with saying basically nothing at all. You said barely anything that convince anyone that Chrom would be anything other than a Ike MKII. Lucina has even worse going for her since she basically is pretty much the genderswap version of Marth.

The fact is that Chrom does not really give off a feel that is any different than the FE characters that have already been in Smash Bros. Chrom as a prospective character excites no one aside from the prospect of giving FE13 prominent recognition.

I think everyone outside the Chrom fanbase vividly sees this. He has virtually nothing distinctive about him that sets him apart from the rest of the lords. He is pretty much a continuation of Ike much like Celice was basically a continuation of Marth.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Sacred Stones scored higher than Blazing Sword and Path of Radiance.

What.

You got a problem with that sir?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I do. Path of Radiance is still probably the best Fire Emblem game to me.

So Chrom can Quick Draw?

Am actually really worried for Ike now people...

I ****ing love Ike. Don't want to see him get cut.

And if he gets cut, it better be in battle vs MetaKnight, Link or Marth in Smash!

 

[Hong]

Of course Chrom can do anything Ike can. People are over-complicating things.

Ness can't do PK Thunder or PK Fire in his games, but for the sake of gameplay, he does in Smash Bros. It is not completely far-fetched; Chrom doing Ike's Aether is less strange.

Chrom could replace Ike and fully replace his fighting style and it would not be weird, honestly. Whether we see this happen or not, all depends on what Nintendo wants. If they want a more relevant representative, we will get Chrom. If they want to have Ike because Ike was in the last Smash Bros, they will have Ike. Path of Radiance is my favourite game as well, so of course I would be okay with Ike. At the same time, it would be great to see Chrom in a Smash Bros environment and see Falchions clash, so he has his own appeal.

I love Fire Emblem and I am not going to be a spoiled little brat about what we see or what we don't. At worst we could get Tharja or something.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I do. Path of Radiance is still probably the best Fire Emblem game to me.

Well that....

Spoiler

is your opinion and you have every right to think that.

 

[FalKoopa]

You got a problem with that sir?

Yes sir. Path of Radiance and Blazing Sword are better than Sacred Stones.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Yes sir. Path of Radiance and Blazing Sword are better than Sacred Stones.

Them's fightin' words son.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I can see that Sacred Stones might be preceived as better in the way it added some things. Especially the Skirmishes and World Map features from FE: Gaiden. It had quite a lot of freedom of choice. You had a lot of charaters, and all where basically useable. You could choose the class you where promoting to, and it had 'skills' of sorts.

If it was just a little bit more difficult, it probably would be on par with Blazing Sword maybe.

Path of Radiance = God Tier of the Fire Emblem franchise.

 

[FlareHabanero]

He is pretty much a continuation of Ike much like Celice was basically a continuation of Marth.

It's interesting you've mentioned that, because Seliph did go through a bit of Divergent Character Evolution because of Fire Emblem: Awakening. In their respective debut games, both characters had similar appearances and abilities due to both of them being in the Lord class. But when Fire Emblem: Awakening came around, both characters started to gain their own characteristics. Marth was reclassed as a Lodestar and Seliph was reclassed as a Swordmaster, while Seliph got a redesign that appears to take more inspiration from samurai.

Compare the two then and now.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Diddy Kong]

So Ike could draw inspiration from Chrom and Awakening, like Marth in Smash took inspiration from Celice and FE4?

I'm for that!

Spoiler

Unless it involves throwing Ragnell outside of Aether...

 

[•Col•]

Not to throw more fuel on the fire, but... I keep coming back to this quote:

That decision-making process starts with Sakurai forming his own thoughts on who should feature in the next Smash Bros., but also factors in various surveys, he said. From there, a list of candidates is refined by evaluating their contribution to the game's roster: "What is the uniqueness of this character? What does this character bring into the Smash Bros. universe? What do they have that other characters don't? How do they complement or contrast other characters?"

http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/17/44...director-masahiro-sakurai-character-selection

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I'm a bit late on this, but I've seen some people try to use Spotpass character downloads as a popularity gauge. That doesn't sit well with me, because I imagine there are a lot of people who(like me) only really downloaded the Spotpass characters for grinding.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Been playing FE for a good number of years now. Nearly 11, Got blazing sword. Imported Sword of Seals. Got the rest of the english ones and found "ways" to play the Japanese ones.

I'd be glad to see Marth, Ike and Roy as our trio [if we even get a trio]. Even if my favorite lord is Eliwood. I know he has absolutely no chance. Lyn may have an odd chance, Leif was going to be in Melee but IS gave Sakurai Roy. Sigurd while super amazing I doubt. Micaiah while I'd have liked to see how they made her into a smash fighter I highly doubt. Hector and Ephraim have the uniqueness factor but I'm not sure, Eirika.. Ehh don't think so. Alm? No even if he was badass. Celice or now as he is known thanks to Awakening Seliph. I doubt has a chance. He looks a little too much like Marth even if he was on a horse promoted. Chrom may have a shot but I'm not sure, Lucina? I doubt unfortunately.

 

[Ussi]

Yall saying Ike is slow...

He's always been the 2nd fastest beroc unit only slower than swordmaster/trueblade/Assassin/Whisper speed of 30/40

Only thing is his speed growth sucks in radiant dawn

Chrom's crit animation is not Ike's quick draw. Chrom jumps in the air and then slams them. His aether is completely different in animation too. Its just two dash hits, with the last one like quick draw (this is probably due to multiple classes and characters using it, pretty much all classes can use aether if MyUnit is Lucina's mother)

 

[TheTuninator]

Not to throw more fuel on the fire, but... I keep coming back to this quote:
http://www.polygon.com/2013/6/17/44...director-masahiro-sakurai-character-selection

I would be careful when applying that quote to Fire Emblem character selection, as at the end of the day whoever we may get will most likely not end up standing out that much compared to, say, Dillon or Starfy, yet history indicates that this makes multiple FE reps no less likely.

Plus, Wolf, Toon Link and Lucas. Nuff said. People are putting waaaay too much weight on this quote given that Sakurai's own selection history contradicts it.

 

[Noler_Mass]

Man being away for a while makes you realize that these character debates are stupid. Honestly this is how it is: no matter who you are, having an entire game to grow as a character is going to make you unique enough to be a character in smash. I don't care who that character is, if you are a main character in a fire emblem game, you are unique enough to be in smash. That is it. No exceptions. But that leaves a lot of characters to choose from. Past that it comes down to one thing, personal preference. Now there are certainly more characters who look more likely like Chrom or Roy or lyn or you name it, but what I have learned is sakurai may or may not even give a **** about what you think. And I respect the lard out of him for that. I prefer it to be Chrom. It looks like he may prefer Chrom since he chose a stage that specifically pertains to him. But whatever he does, I'm gonna be fine with it.

This might get weird and emotional and ****, but I just played through the entire story mode of brawl with my sister, who had never played super smash bros or any action-y game for that matter. Really all she has ever played are MySims and animal crossing and nintendogs, stuff like that. But I have to say playing through the story with my sister was wicked fun. It was even fun without a playable ridley. It was even fun though there were sketchy roster selections like snake and rob (seriously though, I teared up when those robs were shooting ancient minister). It was even fun when Roy and mewtwo were nowhere to be found. My sister even found it fun when jigglypuff, her second favorite character behind Kirby, wasn't playable until you beat the game. That made me realize that while there may be characters that pertain to my interests like chrom, everyone else has their own preferences too. There are people that would be sad if Roy doesn't make it, some being Melee fans, some being fe6 fans. There are people that would be sad if lyn doesn't make it, some who simply liked her assist trophy and some who liked her in fe7. There are even some who would be sad if the black knight doesn't make it, or in other words me. But really it doesn't matter.

So the point of all of that is not that debating what fire emblem characters or any characters for that matter is a bad thing. But please people, the characters are never a make or break for a smash bros title. Stop acting like if your one character doesn't get announced your world will end. Seeing your character is fun, but seeing other characters, unexpected or not is really fun too. I was stupid and disappointed when I saw wii fit trainer, but why? She looks so absolutely fun to play with, why does it matter if she came from a game for middle aged women? I have simply decided that no matter who is announced I will preorder both versions of the game, get them both day one, and love the **** out of both of them. Now carry on. <-- rights to start singing carry on by fun. in your head are granted.

 

[•Col•]

I would be careful when applying that quote to Fire Emblem character selection, as at the end of the day whoever we may get will most likely not end up standing out that much compared to, say, Dillon or Starfy, yet history indicates that this makes multiple FE reps no less likely.

Plus, Wolf, Toon Link and Lucas. Nuff said. People are putting waaaay too much weight on this quote given that Sakurai's own selection history contradicts it.

Again, trying to argue Chrom can be super unique and stuff, then trying to bring up clone characters to use as an example doesn't really help your case.

Well, aside from Wolf. Who actually is pretty damn unique and brings something new to the table (specials aside) due to the fact that he has something that only one other character in the game has. Hint: He uses them in the majority of his normal attacks.

I'm fine with people arguing for Chrom in the game, but don't try to say he can bring a unique playstyle(again, not moveset) then at other times point at clone characters to use as an analogy for specific arguments. Because I've seen this happen at least 3-4 times now.

 

[TheTuninator]

Again, trying to argue Chrom can be super unique and stuff, then trying to bring up clone characters to use as an example doesn't really help your case.

I didn't say Chrom. I said any Fire Emblem character. Roy's flaming sword or Hector's axe may set them slightly apart from a Lord with a plain old sword, but compared to somebody like Dillon, Starfy or Isaac the differences between FE characters become somewhat academic.

Also, Lucas isn't a clone. He is, however, extremely similar to one other already included character, and doesn't offer much in the way of uniqueness, yet Sakurai put him in nonetheless.

Well, aside from Wolf. Who actually is pretty damn unique and brings something new to the table (specials aside) due to the fact that he has something that only one other character in the game has. Hint: He uses them in the majority of his normal attacks.

Wolf has claws, as does Bowser, which means that Wolf does not "have something that other characters don't". Claws? Bowser's got 'em. Blaster and shield? Fox and Falco have that covered.

Wolf's a perfectly fine character and I like him, but he is not bringing anything to the table that other characters don't already have. He isn't very unique at all. Despite this, Sakurai included him.

I'm fine with people arguing for Chrom in the game, but don't try to say he can bring a unique playstyle(again, not moveset) then at other times point at clone characters to use as an analogy for specific arguments. Because I've seen this happen at least 3-4 times now.

I'm not arguing for Chrom. I'm arguing against taking Sakurai's quote as gospel when his own history of character selection contradicts it. Clearly pure uniqueness is not the only factor in play here, or pretty much no FE newcomer would have a shot at inclusion.

To elaborate further, I don't think that anybody here would disagree that Roy is a strong contender for inclusion in SSB4, and for that matter was one for Brawl, yet if we want to consider Sakurai's above quote as the ultimate guidelines for every pick Roy doesn't seem like a likely inclusion at all. He doesn't offer much that Marth and Ike don't already have when compared to other potential newcomers (and no, neither does Chrom). There's clearly more at work here than just what Sakurai outlines in those four or five sentences.

 

[FalKoopa]

What's with Noler_Mass' sudden outburst?

Overall, I agree with he said though.

 

[jaytalks]

You said a whole lot with saying basically nothing at all. You said barely anything that convince anyone that Chrom would be anything other than a Ike MKII. Lucina has even worse going for her since she basically is pretty much the genderswap version of Marth.

The fact is that Chrom does not really give off a feel that is any different than the FE characters that have already been in Smash Bros. Chrom as a prospective character excites no one aside from the prospect of giving FE13 prominent recognition.

I think everyone outside the Chrom fanbase vividly sees this. He has virtually nothing distinctive about him that sets him apart from the rest of the lords. He is pretty much a continuation of Ike much like Celice was basically a continuation of Marth.

I was responding to an earlier contention that people would buy the game for Chrom and Lucina. I can see not liking the characters yourself, but to deny their ability to sell a game was wrong to me. Fire Emblem Awakening's sales can because of a lot of different things: Promotion, good reviews, great gameplay, etc. But the designs of Yusuke Kozaki definitely contributed the sales, and the strength of its three main characters contributed as well.

(spoilers for awakening):
The calling Lucina just a genderswap is something I don't really agree with. Lucina has a design that is a homage to Marth's outfit, but it's not unique in its own way. Lucina wears a darker blue than Marth. She lacks his shoulders and shoulder guards, is shorter, long hair, etc. They really don't look alike when standing next to each other in their art. His redesign in the game takes heavily from Lucina, not the other way around; they shared a resemblance for the purpose of the game. Additionally, the characters are presented in their style of game traditionally with changes for the sake updating adesign, so I believe she would have the look and feel Awakening in-game art style (plus feet of course) and her artwork, which is much different than the series has been presented in the past. Her attacks would also be different because Nintendo has used the same attacks for Fire Emblem characters as they do in their games, for the most part. Lucina has different attacks, moves, and stance than Marth. Marth's Awakening model and style is based on her, and due to IS's laziness, all spotpass lords and characters fight like a certain class. Lucina would add diversity to a roster in need of more strong badass female protagonists, and some time traveling characters.

(end spoilers)

I always get in trouble for that last part, but that statement is less about what I think Sakurai and company will do, and more about what I think Sakurai should do.

Completely agree with you Nolar_Mass. Every main character in the series has something unique about them that would qualify them to be in Smash. I admit at times I've been down on other characters, but that type of thinking is the best approach. FE, unlike other franchises, has a wealth of characters that could make great adds, and I would loved to be surprised by the add. The predictions for 4 have been fairly conservative in terms of unique characters. My favorite addition to Brawl was Pokemon Trainer, because it was so unexpected but so much like playing Pokemon. I regularly switch between him and Ike. I hope we see another unique character like that, and that could happen in Fire Emblem. Although many of us have said a pairing of Chrom and Lucina, or one of those two and Robin, I would really love to be surprised by that or something I haven't even thought of yet.

 

[TheTuninator]

It'd be interesting if they tried a Pair Up, and it could be pretty hilarious if they did it with one or two non-Awakening characters. Ike could certainly stand to lose Counter. It's not like it does much for him as is.

 

[Jaedrik]

Overall, I disagree with all of you.

There that's my argument come at me.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

I was responding to an earlier contention that people would buy the game for Chrom and Lucina. I can see not liking the characters yourself, but to deny their ability to sell a game was wrong to me. Fire Emblem Awakening's sales can because of a lot of different things: Promotion, good reviews, great gameplay, etc. But the designs of Yusuke Kozaki definitely contributed the sales, and the strength of its three main characters contributed as well.

(spoilers for awakening):
The calling Lucina just a genderswap is something I don't really agree with. Lucina has a design that is a homage to Marth's outfit, but it's not unique in its own way. Lucina wears a darker blue than Marth. She lacks his shoulders and shoulder guards, is shorter, long hair, etc. They really don't look alike when standing next to each other in their art. His redesign in the game takes heavily from Lucina, not the other way around; they shared a resemblance for the purpose of the game. Additionally, the characters are presented in their style of game traditionally with changes for the sake updating adesign, so I believe she would have the look and feel Awakening in-game art style (plus feet of course) and her artwork, which is much different than the series has been presented in the past. Her attacks would also be different because Nintendo has used the same attacks for Fire Emblem characters as they do in their games, for the most part. Lucina has different attacks, moves, and stance than Marth. Marth's Awakening model and style is based on her, and due to IS's laziness, all spotpass lords and characters fight like a certain class. Lucina would add diversity to a roster in need of more strong badass female protagonists, and some time traveling characters.

(end spoilers)

I always get in trouble for that last part, but that statement is less about what I think Sakurai and company will do, and more about what I think Sakurai should do.

Completely agree with you Nolar_Mass. Every main character in the series has something unique about them that would qualify them to be in Smash. I admit at times I've been down on other characters, but that type of thinking is the best approach. FE, unlike other franchises, has a wealth of characters that could make great adds, and I would loved to be surprised by the add. The predictions for 4 have been fairly conservative in terms of unique characters. My favorite addition to Brawl was Pokemon Trainer, because it was so unexpected but so much like playing Pokemon. I regularly switch between him and Ike. I hope we see another unique character like that, and that could happen in Fire Emblem. Although many of us have said a pairing of Chrom and Lucina, or one of those two and Robin, I would really love to be surprised by that or something I haven't even thought of yet.

I always wanted the FE7 trio to be In working like PT. Having Lyn, Hector and Eliwood would be awesome.

 

[jaytalks]

Pair Ups for all the lords I know:
Marth and Caeda
Roy and Lilina
Lyn and Hector
Eliwood and Ninian
Eirka and Ephraim
Ike does not pair up. Forever solo.
Lucina and Chrom
Chrom and Robin
Robin and Lucina

Chrom and Lucina, as well as Eirika and Ephraim benefit from not looking like they support a canon relationship. Robin could also be the same gender as the characters pair up partner. Marth and Caeda benefit from being a canon relationship.

I actually prefer counter being in all the lords, as it really ties the series together, but I gladly would give that up for the pair up mechanic.

 

[Jaedrik]

Pair Ups for all the lords I know:
Marth and Caeda
Marth and Caeda benefit from being a canon relationship.
I actually prefer counter being in all the lords, as it really ties the series together, but I gladly would give that up for the pair up mechanic.

NO THAT WOULD MESS UP ALL MY MARTHxZELDA SHIPPING

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I always get in trouble for that last part, but that statement is less about what I think Sakurai and company will do, and more about what I think Sakurai should do.

Well then I'm very glad you aren't in charge of the roster. Including a character just because "OMG we need more gurlz" is a terrible idea, especially when there are other characters from that series that are more interesting or requested.

 

[Deleted member]

Funny how I'm seeing anti-Chrom bias coming from the one who accuses another of pro-Chrom bias.

As one who honestly doesn't give a flying one about Fire Emblem and its characters, pretty much, I can see potential in every plausible option at this point.
If the very bland Marth who had very little to work with can be made interesting through Smash, then pretty much the same can happen to anyone from the series, really.
Roy's got potential despite just being a Marth clone in Melee.
Chrom's got potential despite having some design similarities to Ike and his perceived blandness.
Lucina's got potential despite her INTENTIONALLY similar appearance to Marth (which is where the similarities end).
etc.

We really don't know what's going to happen for Smash 4, whether Chrom is the FE Newcomer, Lucina is instead, Roy returns, or something completely different like Anna or Robin/Avatar.
But at this point, attacking the other options solely because of bias for another choice makes you all no better than the rabid Lyn fanbase back in '06.
It's sad when someone like ChronoBound, who was around for that madness, stoops to their level. And for what? To try to justify why supporting Roy is the best?
You all need to look upon yourselves and feel shame.

 

[Jaedrik]

Hey guys, may I have a word?

We should all be asking ourselves who has the most potential. Then, we should engage in scholastics, not debates or arguments, they are inferior.

Edit: you know? Now that I think about it, why does everyone make this point the biggest deal? It is the most important thing after all, their potential and uniqueness.

 

[jaytalks]

Funny how I'm seeing anti-Chrom bias coming from the one who accuses another of pro-Chrom bias.

I thought it was funny to be accused of Chrom bias considering if you look at what I've said before, all that I have said in Chrom's very own thread; I would think I'm pretty far from that.

Well then I'm very glad you aren't in charge of the roster. Including a character just because "OMG we need more gurlz" is a terrible idea, especially when there are other characters from that series that are more interesting or requested.

As I've said multiple times, I'm not in favor of female character adds. I'm in favor of adding strong badass protagonists (and villains) who happen to female. The characters I advocate for are already unique and strong protagonists. These are characters whose would add to the roster regardless. I don't advocate adding side characters who barely play a role in the game. But I'm not going to turn a blind eye to something that I think could make the series better.

Aside from Metroid, no Nintendo series has shown better female main characters than Fire Emblem. The other series don't even come close. Lucina, Lyn, and Micaiah are all great characters that are unique and that can add to Smash anyways.

 

[Diddy Kong]

All I'm saying is I like Ike from this point on. But if I can't have him, I at least hope the dude who replaced him is cool / fun.

 

[ChronoBound]

It's sad when someone like ChronoBound, who was around for that madness, stoops to their level. And for what? To try to justify why supporting Roy is the best?
You all need to look upon yourselves and feel shame.

I think you are still butthurt because I said something that offended you about your friends months ago (that its shameful to be sexually attracted to underaged fictional characters). You need to let it go.

I did nothing shameful.

 

[bobadz]

I'm not anti Chrom, but I really would prefer Roy and Ike. But if he ges in, it's no big deal.

I think you are still butthurt because I said something that offended you about your friends months ago (that its shameful to be sexually attracted to underaged fictional characters). You need to let it go.

I did nothing shameful.

why did you bring this up?

 

[ChronoBound]

Anyway, here is a look into what the Japanese fanbase feels about each FE game in the series:

mk2 (the largest Japanese game fan review website):

FE10: Radiant Dawn (overall points of 75, Grade of A)
http://wiimk2.net/title.php?title=227

FE5: Thracia 776 (overall points of 82, no letter grade due to receiving very few reviews):
http://vc.wiimk2.net/title.php?title=540

FE4: Seisen no Keifu (overall points of 75, letter grade of C, curving for letter grades is harsher for VC titles):
http://vc.wiimk2.net/title.php?title=279

FE3: Monsho no Nazo (overall points of 71, letter grade of C, curving for letter grades is harsher for VC titles):
http://vc.wiimk2.net/title.php?title=276

FE9: Path of Radiance (overall points of 73, letter grade of A):
http://gcmk2.net/rpg/fireemblemsouen.html

FE6: Fuuin no Tsurigi (overall points of 78, letter grade of A):
http://gba-mk2.com/srpg/fire.html

FE7: Rekka no Ken (overall points of 78, letter grade of A):
http://gba-mk2.com/srpg/fire2/index.html

FE8: Sacred Stones (overall points of 65, letter grade of C):
http://gba-mk2.com/srpg/fire3.html

FE12: Shin Monsho no Nazo (overall points of 75, letter grade of A):
http://ndsmk2.net/title.php?title=1988

FE11: Shadow Dragon (overall points of 60, letter grade of C):
http://ndsmk2.net/title.php?title=1017

FE13: Awakening: (overall points of 69, letter grade of B):
http://ndsmk2.net/3ds/title.php?title=233

why did you bring this up?

Because Golden got angry about me when the discussion did not involve him.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think you are still butthurt because I said something that offended you about your friends months ago (that its shameful to be sexually attracted to underaged fictional characters). You need to let it go.

I did nothing shameful.

WOAH!

Chrono what has gotten into you?

Now you have done something shameful. Let stuff go dude.

 

[FlareHabanero]