Yoshi v. Zero Suit Samus

[Yikarur]

buuump
got someone more experience in over a half year? does someone use the chaingrab frequently and can tell us how it effect the match-up? etcetcetc?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I play this MU frequently with Lavlis and can easily say it's 60/40 or better for ZSS

 

[Z'zgashi]

Ive only played a ZSS once... and all I could say is that even though our CG is difficult, it is VERY helpful. It builds up damage and, since she is almost identical to falco when she is released, if you release her offstage and then grab the edge, her only option is to down b back as her jump alone wont make it, and we can drop the ledge and get a free uair 90% of the time, but as for getting the grab in the first place, its hard... Also dont throw eggs when she's on the ground as she's hella fast, and that's all i know :/ Utah doesnt have any ZSS...

 

[bigman40]

It's too easy for ZSS to take the momentum. You really just have to stay grounded, or else you'll be juggled to high hell. Use your jabs when ZSS is higher in percents, and use slight pressure to have room for you to move away.

 

[F-Tier Player]

So how would yoshi do on rc? If they ban it what other options are there to cp zss?

 

[Deleted member]

I play this MU frequently with Lavlis and can easily say it's 60/40 or better for ZSS

Nobody knows who that is sorry, and you are definately wrong He must play it wrong.
Imo its even or slightly ZSS' favor. Yoshi has such strong pressure tools against ZSS its crazy, and she doesnt punish eggs very well. Side B gets ***** (not that ZSS should use it often), and ZSS doesnt have anything on yoshis back air.
Warpstatus got like half his damage on me through dash attack locks, which are annoying. =[

If you dont get downsmashed, which is actually possible for yoshi, its a very winnable matchup.
Eggs are actually good against ZSS that isnt running and dashing a lot.




RC is really not fun tho, dont go there XD
Neutrals are best imo, ZSS does well on a lot of the same CPs that yoshi does, and she usually has more stage based advantages.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Against bair?
Dashed retreating true pivot dsmash will outspace it if you go for it.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Im pretty sure we can retreat far enough before we land to get hit by that... unless we space terribad

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

So? Our dsmash outspaces you.

 

[Z'zgashi]

But yoshi doesnt get hit so really no one wins

 

[Deleted member]

So? Our dsmash outspaces you.

...
Dsmash is fantastic, but yoshi has so much mobility it doesnt really matter. ZSS should really only land a downsmash on a mistake, or on a read landing.
Rising nair ***** a ZSS trying to space dsmash, or we can just SHAD behind you (yoshi has the fastest air mobility fyi) and punish hard.
ZSS has options against yoshis pressure, but she doesnt outright beat him with an option, so its kinda like a matchup based a lot on reads and who can get that punish. ZSS has such an awful grab that jab is pretty safe, but ZSS does punish hard, and up air is so fantasticly good.

ZSS also isnt that great at avoiding kill moves.

One thing that can be a matchup changer is how much we let the suit pieces affect the matchup. As far as i remember, fierce and warp both use 1 suit piece, so you can either play it safe, or, as i prefer, use yoshis insane double jump mixups with an item to dominate.

People like to shield suit pieces, but you can just jump over and egg lay if they do that. Yoshi with a suit piece is probably the scariest thing in existance. Then you throw eggs once ZSS is in the air, cuz she has so much trouble landing. Grab on landing is pretty freaking safe, and the CG is doable (or you can punish the down b out).

Idk what you are thinking xonar, your yoshi main probably isnt very good/doesnt play it correctly. Or both idk

You cant just play campy, and you gotta have a certain mindset going in

 

[Sharky]

to modify stocky's dsmash statement, it shouldn't hit ANY character excepting the case of a mistake, lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Well kinda, but it ends up hitting off reads, which arent necessarily mistakes.

Yoshi is so fast its kinda unsafe to throw out a dsmash if he predicts it. Most other characters have to power shield, cuz they get utilted.

 

[Z'zgashi]

K, so i played one in a tournament today, and this is what i think. Our eggs outspace her paralyzer so if we space, yoshi can camp quite well, but be cautious when shes grounded as she's ridiculously fast. Pivot grabing works quite decently here and the CG is a good damage builder, but good zss's wont fall for the grab more than a couple times. In the air, yoshi ***** HARD if we're below her, but shes a beast if we're above her (both of their uairs raaape). She has a hard time killing us due to our amazing mobility, but our only reliable kill move imo is uair.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Faced a ZSS at San Japan and like Z'zgashi said.. UAir basically gets them but U-Smash also worked for ZSS when I played it. That's actually how I got 1 stock off most ZSS's there.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I got usmash a couple times but not enough to call reliable :/

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Well, I played Dazwa tonight for quite a while.

And most of my success came from baiting edge-guards and punishing his lasers/whip-thing. He even told me himself that in most cases, regular shield is pretty hard to deal with, since they have so little options against it. Unfortunately, Yoshi's OoS options are sufficiently terrible enough to nullify that one exploitable weakness.

Spot dodging is obviously not a great choice, thanks to the lag-time on down-smash. SH Reverse Neutral-B was pretty good for following up with after you bait ZSS's attempts to punish in my experience, so long as you keep your second jump. Super-armor was clutch on more than one occasion (or even just a rising air-dodge could save you).

I know none of this is revolutionary, but that's the best I got at present. I'm sure I'll play him a lot more in the near future and have more to offer.

 

[Shiri]

JILE GETTIN IT IN!

 

[TheSaintKai]

I have to say...
don't recover low, Yoshis.
Save yourself an easy gimp for us.
D-smash > footstool is instant death.
I got a pretty good Yoshi named Ace at the Metrocon tourney in Tampa with it.
65-35 ZSS, IMO. Maybe 6-4, but no higher than 65-35. I'm just a little biased. ;D

 

[Airborne]

I have to say...
don't recover low, Yoshis.
Save yourself an easy gimp for us.
D-smash > footstool is instant death.
I got a pretty good Yoshi named Ace at the Metrocon tourney in Tampa with it.
65-35 ZSS, IMO. Maybe 6-4, but no higher than 65-35. I'm just a little biased. ;D

Uhmmm... Dsmash->Footstool would only be an instant death if we mash jump before the footstool. >___>

 

[Shiri]

He is saying that we would

double jump into the downsmash (?)

and then get footstooled while in the stun.

Or something.

 

[bigman40]

foreign sentence.

What? I don't understand the words coming out of your mouth.

 

[Airborne]

He is saying that we would

double jump into the downsmash (?)

and then get footstooled while in the stun.

Or something.

Too bad dsmash won't knock us out of our DJ at ANY %.
Oh, and what's that? Never land next to your opponent after using your Double Jump? Isn't that one of the 10 yoshi commandments?

/rage

 

[indigestible_wad]

He is saying that we would

double jump into the downsmash (?)

and then get footstooled while in the stun.

Or something.

Shiri's posts are aways of the finest poetry. <3

Also, I didn't take his post too seriously. He played a couple matches and instantly thought his character was better. That's not anything to get angry at.

 

[Airborne]

Shiri's posts are aways of the finest poetry. <3

Also, I didn't take his post too seriously. He played a couple matches and instantly thought his character was better. That's not anything to get angry at.

I have fun raging. D:

Regardless, it has inspired me to make a 10 yoshi commandments list.
/blasphemy

 

[Delta-cod]

So, I really can't do this match up and I think it's horrible.

I had no optionssssssssssssssss.

 

[Deleted member]

Yoshi has plenty of options in this matchup. Its ZSS that doesnt really have options.
What can Zero suit do about back air? Not much
What can she do about jab mixups on shield? Not much.

What can she do about yoshi camp? Basically she can run in if she knows when u will egg, but if you are tricky, eggs are a real problem, especially when shes trying to land.

Ugg i wanted you to beat snakee really bad, you coulda done it i bet, >.>

 

[Delta-cod]

It was 2-1, I just really couldn't figure out what to do. Any time I got knocked into the air I took a LOT of damage/got forced to the ledge. I was really bewildered the whole time and didn't really camp her because I kept getting punished for it. >_>''

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalp.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

Did you get uair'd alot Delta?

 

[Delta-cod]

Did you get uair'd alot Delta?

Yes.

And then when I dodged the Uair, I got Fair'd/Nair'd/Bair'd/Side B'd.

>_____________________________________>

 

[Z'zgashi]

Delta gettin pwned by a little gurl with a gun

Spoiler

LEARN 2 MATCH UP

jk i suck way worse than you, so my voice means nothing

 

[Deathfox30]

Delta gettin pwned by a little gurl with a gun

Spoiler

LEARN 2 MATCH UP

jk i suck way worse than you, so my voice means nothing

Yoshi only comes up to her waist. LOOOOOOL You forgot about teh whip.

How are you having trouble with her F smash? It's horrible... I think you mean Side B D: @ That guy from the first page LOL

 

[Z'zgashi]

Just play keep away and punish mistakes with bairs and grabs. When she's in the air throw eggs. Dont get hit by uair (just move away she's slow compared to us in the air) and space well... that's all...

 

[Yikarur]

What can Zero suit do about back air? Not much dtilt
What can she do about jab mixups on shield? Not much. utilt

anwerssssssssss just don't approach, attacking her shield is very bad for us.

 

[Deleted member]

anwerssssssssss just don't approach, attacking her shield is very bad for us.

Wtf utilt has so much after lag. When you pressure a shield, u dont just keep wacking it until they get hit, because a large portion of the cast has an OOS option that beats bair.

If they throw out up tilt whenever u come close to the sheild they will lose. Retreating back air, plus empty air dodges behind them will all keep ZSS guessing.

I do like not approaching though.

 

[Yikarur]

I played a ZSS in Tourney last weekend, every time I rushed her shield in hope to hit she reacted with utilt, every time I spaced my back air with the tip dtilt hit (I was very confused, I didn't know that works lol)
After I didn't approach at all so that I didn't have to attack her shield at all the match-up seemed to be easier but that was already to late D:
it's not always "guessing". There are so many ways to react and my opponent could react very well to a lot of actions I did.

 

[KillerJawz]

Utilt has quite the disjoint. A good ZSS will also Up air OoS any approaches on her shield.

/backtolurking

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

I was just about to say that. Uair *****.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I played a ZSS in Tourney last weekend, every time I rushed her shield in hope to hit she reacted with utilt, every time I spaced my back air with the tip dtilt hit (I was very confused, I didn't know that works lol)
After I didn't approach at all so that I didn't have to attack her shield at all the match-up seemed to be easier but that was already to late D:
it's not always "guessing". There are so many ways to react and my opponent could react very well to a lot of actions I did.

Like i said earlier, play keep away

 

[Deleted member]

I played a ZSS in Tourney last weekend, every time I rushed her shield in hope to hit she reacted with utilt, every time I spaced my back air with the tip dtilt hit (I was very confused, I didn't know that works lol)
After I didn't approach at all so that I didn't have to attack her shield at all the match-up seemed to be easier but that was already to late D:
it's not always "guessing". There are so many ways to react and my opponent could react very well to a lot of actions I did.

If something isn't working, you stop doing it or change it up. If she kept beating back air with down tilt, u mix up empty short hops. I mean ZSS happens to have 1 good out of shield option, but with a fair bit of ending lag. Besides your annecdotal evidance of stuff not working, shield pressuring with aerials and SHADs->jab/spaced ftilt seems to me like a good way to abuse a trait like that. So basically, you I like to abuse stuff like that, but if ud rather throw eggs (which ZSS can punish pretty decently), go ahead. ZSS does have trouble approaching, but a dash attack lock hurtss

Uair out of shield is good i guess, i feel like ZSS takes a while to get off the ground but i could be wrong