Yoshi v. Diddy Kong

[DFEAR]

i dunno if i see a yoshi in his shield i just literally wait for him to do anything lol its almost a free punish xD

~poltergust da bess~

 

[Poltergust]

Diddy...

Diddy can be so hard sometimes. This match-up is largely based on momentum and stage control. If Yoshi loses those, then this match-up is going to be very difficult.

If Yoshi has the percentage/stock lead, then his main priority is to keep that lead. Don't go offensive, don't do punishable moves, camp the heck out of Diddy, and look for any openings. If Yoshi loses that lead, it'll be hard to get it back. We can't effectively approach Diddy because ground-approaches are countered by bananas and aerial approaches are nullified by Diddy's amazing shield (it's like impossible to shield-poke him... seriously). Egg Lay is going to be very useful in this match-up since we can use our double-jump heavy armor to stop bananas and then separate him from the other one with Egg Lay.

If Diddy doesn't have a banana ready (rare, but possible) then Yoshi could pressure and space Diddy quite well. Jab is a good move if you want a reset (something that you'll want to happen if you are in the lead), and f-tilt and d-tilt are good spacing moves. I find it hard to pivot-grab Diddy for some reason, but if you do get that grab, get that chain-grab going. Of course, Diddy's ground game is nothing to scoff at, either. His tilts are really fast and have good range. D-smash is quick and can kill (but not under 160%). F-smash is SDI'able if you react fast enough. Up-smash is pretty bad, but it can pile on damage if you get caught in it (I think Yoshi could shield-grab it, though).

Aerial-wise, Yoshi is more versatile but Diddy has one of the best f-airs in the game. It's quick, makes for a great OoS option, and can kill if not stale (which it usually would be). Diddy's b-air and u-air are pretty good too, but Diddy's u-air is basically an inferior version of Yoshi's and b-air doesn't have too much range. Basically, if Diddy is facing his back to you then he's vulnerable, but otherwise don't bother trying to fight against his f-air. You'll lose. Thankfully, Diddy has mediocre air-speed, so if we get the read then we can u-air him.

Diddy should NEVER gimp Yoshi. Bananas obviously won't cut it, and his f-air doesn't gimp. D-air shouldn't hit you, but if it does just double-jump out of the spike. His d-air is actually a very, very weak spike (although the knockback won't make it seem that way). Just remember to watch out for his f-air because it will hit you if you are not careful (and please don't DI down...).

It's certainly possible to gimp Diddy, but not without good prediction skills. Depending on the angle Diddy was sent, he may only need to side-B to recover. Yoshi really can't do much to contest his side-B, unfortunately. It's too risky. However, if Diddy gets into a situation where he has to up-B, you better get down there and n-air him! That should be enough to gimp him most of the time.

Summarizing everything, Diddy is a character that can easily zone you out and maintain stage control. He has trouble dealing with some of Yoshi's moves, such as u-air and Egg Lay, but he has the tools to work around them. This match-up his heavily momentum-based, and whoever gets the lead early should be the winner. The thing is, it's much easier for Diddy to do this than Yoshi. I believe this match-up is 40:60 in Diddy's favor.

 

[Z'zgashi]

^^^God i love this summary, can we just end the discussion now?

 

[Delta-cod]

So, I think this MU is TERRIBLE for us. We can't use his bananas well, we can't approach at all, we can't really camp him with eggs at all, so if we're not in the lead, we're screwed.

This may have something to do with my only Diddy exp coming from ADHD (who pretty much demolished me the first time I played him and beat me pretty solidly the next time, although it was MUCH closer...).

 

[Poltergust]

What are you talking about? Yoshi can use Diddy's bananas just fine. Double-jump canceling and DR (which I can't do, but it helps if you're good at it) are great for handling bananas. We also have our DACIT which goes really far.

Of course, no one can handle them better than Diddy, but Yoshi is better off using bananas than most other characters.

 

[Delta-cod]

What are you talking about? Yoshi can use Diddy's bananas just fine. Double-jump canceling and DR (which I can't do, but it helps if you're good at it) are great for handling bananas. We also have our DACIT which goes really far.

Of course, no one can handle them better than Diddy, but Yoshi is better off using bananas than most other characters.

I could just be using them all wrong. Honestly, I'm not very good with them, and just figured that Yoshi wasn't either. I'll rethink this with more practice and won't really touch on it.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Based on many Doddy Kings i've played, CG'ing Dsmash (Don't ask it somehow helps) and Doddy's bananas is usually how i'm offensive with Yoshi, While Defensive is Egg throwing and BAir/UAir. As for everything else Polt got down.
I also think 40:60 Doddy's favor.

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

So, I think this MU is TERRIBLE for us. We can't use his bananas well, we can't approach at all, we can't really camp him with eggs at all, so if we're not in the lead, we're screwed.

This may have something to do with my only Diddy exp coming from ADHD (who pretty much demolished me the first time I played him and beat me pretty solidly the next time, although it was MUCH closer...).

We can abuse nanners like a boss delta what are you talking about lol

 

[ADHD]

I think this matchup is overratedly (whatever if it's not a word) bad. Yoshi does just fine.

 

[Delta-cod]

I think this matchup is overratedly (whatever if it's not a word) bad. Yoshi does just fine.

You either namesearched yourself, or you're stalking me.

 

[Sharky]

yoshis should learn to insta-throw, it's good. =)

I don't think this is a terrible mu, I"ll write stuff by tomorrow I guess.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Imo, this is how the mu numbers are (number on left being yoshi's number):

70:30+ = We demolish them.
65:35 = Big advantage but they do have a slight chance
60:40 = We have a solid advantage but they have a few tools to keep us on our toes
55:45 = Pretty even, but we have a slight advantage
50:50 = Even, you have to outplay the opponent to win
45:55 = Close to even, but they have a slight edge
40:60 = They have a nice advantage, but we still have they tools to win
35:65 = We get messed up bad, but we do have a small chance
30:70+ = We get *****

I think its a solid 40:60 diddy's adv. Diddy has better options and mostly beats out yoshi, but we still have a few tricks up our sleeves (wut, yoshi has sleeves?) that let us pull out a win if played correctly

 

[Ingulit]

Aerial-wise, Yoshi is more versatile but Diddy has one of the best f-airs in the game. It's quick, makes for a great OoS option, and can kill if not stale (which it usually would be). Diddy's b-air and u-air are pretty good too, but Diddy's u-air is basically an inferior version of Yoshi's and b-air doesn't have too much range. Basically, if Diddy is facing his back to you then he's vulnerable, but otherwise don't bother trying to fight against his f-air. You'll lose. Thankfully, Diddy has mediocre air-speed, so if we get the read then we can u-air him.

I don't really have anything to add to this conversation, but I feel like this is so common a misconception that I needed to mention it. B-Air is our longest-ranged Aerial. If you're worried about getting hit by F-Air, you'll sure as heck get hit by B-Air in that same situation.

 

[Deleted member]

I think its more like 35:65, but i am not all that great with naners (which is wierd, im a god with armor pieces and gyro XD)

I think its yoshis worst matchup but i could be wrong

 

[ADHD]

Diddy has better options, and is over all a far better character.

But you have something everyone else wants vs Diddy Kong, and that's a shield that can't be poked by bananas. Yoshi's weight, egg camping, abnormally long trip animation, as well as his shield make this matchup become more even.

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

What are you talking about? Yoshi can use Diddy's bananas just fine. Double-jump canceling and DR (which I can't do, but it helps if you're good at it) are great for handling bananas. We also have our DACIT which goes really far.

Of course, no one can handle them better than Diddy, but Yoshi is better off using bananas than most other characters.

I agree wholeheartedly with this post.

 

[YOSHssb]

It's true that Yoshi has a shield that can't be poked by the bananas, but Yoshi's OoS options are so terrible that it balances out. Any other character could shield and if a banana is coming toward 'em, they could jump and catch it. Yoshi just has to sit there and take it in the shield or spot dodge it. If Diddy can throw a banana so that it would land right where Yoshi is when Yoshi's in his shield, we can't do anything other than roll away or let it hit the shield, and then Yoshi's gotta deal with Diddy's approach while the lag from either a roll or a shield drop happens. So Yoshi's shield isn't that big of an advantage with not being able to be poked. In fact it might be a hindrance.

 

[Poltergust]

I don't really have anything to add to this conversation, but I feel like this is so common a misconception that I needed to mention it. B-Air is our longest-ranged Aerial. If you're worried about getting hit by F-Air, you'll sure as heck get hit by B-Air in that same situation.

It's longer than f-air? Really? o_O

 

[CelestialMarauder~]

Diddy has better options, and is over all a far better character.

But you have something everyone else wants vs Diddy Kong, and that's a shield that can't be poked by bananas. Yoshi's weight, egg camping, abnormally long trip animation, as well as his shield make this matchup become more even.

You said shield twice. And enlighten me on how the trip thing helps

 

[Poltergust]

Incidentally, if you do get tripped, Yoshi's normal get-up has the most amount of invincibility frames. Use that if you want to play it safe. Also, NEVER use his trip attack. It has like 4 frames of invincibility. Absolutely pitiful.

Yeah, I'd like to know why a long trip animation is good.

 

[Shiri]

Doesn't he also slide further away when he's tripped by bananas?

I know whenever I play against Diddy, the tripping isn't as fatal as when I use my other characters.

 

[DFEAR]

Of course, no one can handle them better than metaknight

jus sayin rickeeeeh

 

[Sharky]

yeah the shield is ok for shield poking purposes, but other chars can shield the naner, jump oos and insta-throw that naner, meanwhile we're still getting out of our shield in some ****ty way lol.

 

[Yikarur]

B-Air is our longest-ranged Aerial. If you're worried about getting hit by F-Air, you'll sure as heck get hit by B-Air in that same situation.

the main thing about this is that Fairs hitbox lasts a lot longer which makes it better overall, it's true that bair has a longer atm-hitbox (lol) but fair has the tools to become "longer" because the hitbox lasts longer and you often move while fairing.


oh and never forget that we can Item Toss OoS.

 

[Poltergust]

Also, b-air doesn't kill nearly as well as f-air does.

I always found Diddy's u-air to be funny. It comes out quick and is OK knockback, but it has so much ending lag. It's probably extremely hard to juggle with that move. =P

 

[YOSHssb]

What stages can Diddy counter against Yoshi? I would think that Yoshi can counter Rainbow Cruise, Halberd, and Delfino and those would be good. Would Diddy pick FD, SV, and Pictochat? Or is there some other stage that's just great for Diddy that I'm not thinking about?

 

[Poltergust]

Halberd or Rainbow Cruise are good stages, I believe. Not sure about Delfino Plaza, though.

Yeah, if we ban FD (like we should), then they would either counterpick SV or Pictochat (if it's legal). I like Pictochat, though.

 

[YOSHssb]

I'd say Delfino because of being able to shark while the stage is moving, and with 3 walk-off areas, the CG becomes a lot better. It does give Diddy the ability to banana lock us and be equally as dangerous, but I think it's still a big factor. Also, the sloped areas on Delfino give the opportunity for a lot of down-B mix-ups (especially on the rooftop portion of the stage).

 

[Yikarur]

but Yoshis Sharking tools aren't good and when your double jump gets interrupted while coming from below you're dead

 

[YOSHssb]

You can toss a couple eggs from underneath and then you can get back to the ledge with your double jump before you get into trouble, then with some mindgames, you can get back on the stage to reset the egg-toss counter and repeat. It's a lot better than a ledge egg-toss, and it keeps the pressure on while being pretty much completely safe. I honestly don't think I've been gimped from sharking if I do it like that. I wouldn't try to double jump and attack unless you're 100% that it'll hit because getting knocked out of the double jump is too risky. Also, if you're aware of the stage transitions, then you can time your attacks so that even if you do get knocked out of your jump, then you won't die because the stage will appear under you.

 

[Poltergust]

We can do the same thing on Halberd, though. And Halberd is a much better Yoshi stage in general.

The low ceiling is great because Diddy can't kill upwards. =)

 

[YOSHssb]

Heh, that's why I said both Halberd and Delfino =)

I've always preferred Delfino over Halberd myself actually because I have a hard time approaching/racking up damage when my opponent stands under the center platform and waits under there. Just personally, I feel like I have more room to move around on Delfino and I've typically won more times on Delfino than Halberd, but just a personal playing style probably.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I usually pick rainbow cruise. I love that stage, even beat a good mk there one time

 

[Yikarur]

We can do the same thing on Halberd, though. And Halberd is a much better Yoshi stage in general.

The low ceiling is great because Diddy can't kill upwards. =)

what are you talking about D:
a low ceiling gives us a smaller dsmash DI Area and Diddy kills often with uptilt.

 

[YOSHssb]

what are you talking about D:
a low ceiling gives us a smaller dsmash DI Area and Diddy kills often with uptilt.

I've never been killed by an up-tilt to my knowledge... Forward-smash, Down-smash, and Forward-aerial yes, but not up-tilt...

 

[Delta-cod]

Utilt is a surprisingly good kill move at higher percents.

 

[YOSHssb]

how high are you talking about? 170%? Or does it kill earlier than that? (take out a low-ceiling. Let's say from the center of FD)

 

[Delta-cod]

I'd say 150% no DI? Iunno. Diddy's usually use it when the enemy's at high percents, because it's quick. 170% isn't really too hard for Diddy to get you to anyways. >_>

 

[Poltergust]

Not to mention that you shouldn't be dying under 160% period.

 

[YOSHssb]

Yeah, I agree with Polt. The low ceiling should benefit Yoshi. The less space to DI isn't Yoshi-specific; Diddy has the same limited space to DI as well, and since Yoshi has more upward killing options (down-B, up-smash, and up-aerial), it should help in the MU.