yoshi sucks...heres why

[bottles vs mumbo]

i dont know. you main him. why dont you tell me?
btw this is not meant to be spam. i played yoshi in ssb64 cuz i thought he looked cool is there any1 who actually thinks he is good or are u just the best with him or do u play him out of loyalty or what?

and noone say: yoshi isnt good or bad. people who play him are good or bad. that is just plain stupid

 

[Fawriel]

Because the designers got stoned and decided that nerfing the downsmash would be a good idea.

 

[Mic_128]

Bringer's still deadly with him, just with different strats >.<

 

[Razed]

Because the designers got stoned and decided that nerfing the downsmash would be a good idea.

haha

Well, imo, Yoshi is low tier at best... but, yes, people can still play him well.

 

[Shiri]

Yoshi's always been good. Just a strange sort of good.

In 64, he was tank + priority **** + combos out his @$$ + amazing recovery + shield destroyer + projectile ***** (I want 64 eggs back NOW). In 64, he was good because everyone was good (except Link, and even then, he wasn't that bad...maybe).

In Melee, he was tank + combos yeayuhz! + heavy mindgamer + gimper + various other utility roles (very good CC, aerial CC, great projectile, move versatility). In Melee, he was good because he was balanced (which few characters were) and because he could 0-death most of his "bad" matchups with relative ease after he got the first hit in. He had amazing shield tricks and could fend off most attacks with enough tech skill. He was "bad" in Melee because 1] Sheik CG'd him up until 2006, 2] his true tech skill hadn't been revealed until maybe late 2005, 3] he could be easily camped, 4] nobody good in the United States used him in tournament as anything but a joke character, and 5] because balance in Melee meant you were a bad character (and before anyone argues, this is just true, so don't even bother).

In Brawl, his roles have completely changed. I think the only real constant he's had going into Brawl is that he's still a combo machine. He edgeguards pretty well, but overall, his survivability has been crushed because of the new weight scaling (I've only been able to pull off early- and mid-200% stocks). Is he still good? I think he is. He's get versatility to an extent and all of his moves are really good. The only true move nerfs I think he got were to up tilt and forward smash. Of course, with Snake and Meta Knight, everyone's definition of "good" becomes skewed--and rightfully so. My definitions would skew if all I dealt with were moves that were, in the true sense of the phrase, too good.

Anyway, to answer your questio--er, I guess you never had a question.

Hm.

I guess all I'm saying is Yoshi's good, always has been, just has never had anything broken that he could abuse, so he was "bad" in the sense that most mor--er, people, look at the game.

 

[ducky285]

Simple pros and cons

PROS
- Good range on tail moves
- Great edgeguarding game, including a spike
- Flexible projectile
- Great recovery if second jump is available
- Grabs can be used to great effect offensively
- Super armor on 2nd jump
- Shield doesn't shrink so he can't be poked
- Egg Roll has high priority and can help with projectile spam (sometimes...)
- High priority jabs
- Good at comboing/stringing attacks and building damage
- Fairly hard to KO due to weight
- B-air makes a great approach
- Decent speed on the ground
- Fastest air movement in the game

CONS
- Recovery is hurt drastically if second jump is unavailable
- Fairly easy to combo (debatable)
- Generally lacks priority, especially against some of the better characters. Probably his biggest problem.
- Inability to jump out of shield and a slow standing grab gives him fewer options while blocking than most other characters. As a result, doesn't do well against shield pressure.
- Only has a few reliable KO moves. Usually has to rely on edgeguarding for KOs.
- Slow rolling animation
- Grabs are laggy (except Pivot Grab)
- Poor matchups against most of the currently perceived top-high characters and very few good matchups in general.
- Does very little that other characters can't do at the same level or better.

I welcome corrections and respectful disagreement to this.

EDIT: Made edits based on what people have said.

 

[IceAge]

Make KO streangth moves a con. Please don't tell me you think Yoshi is a good KOer. Yes, he can KO, but it becomes predictable. His KO moves are basically... Foward smash [easy to shield], Upsmash if fresh [which it never is, bair to upsmash is too good], down-b [lots of ending lag], and upair at 120% [which is alot on its own], nair @ 1 50% [waayy too much]. I don't know what you meant when you said strong.

Compared to Fox who is great at koing [upsmash at 90%], Yoshi is weak.

I wouldn't go and say he has a powerful spike either. Its hard to setup, and Ness's and Diddy's work much better.

Egg roll does not roll through almost any projectile. All will break him out and he will be open to more projectiles.

 

[doom dragon 105]

i agree with ducky dont think hes that bad for the same reasons ducky has

 

[Sans Glutin]

TC, money match?

 

[Meta Dude]

i wouldn't say he lacks priority. compared to meta knight and g&w, sure, but c'mon, i wouldn't list it as a con. certain matchups are favorable when it comes to priority.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Jab > projectiles, lol.

 

[pidgey14]

at least you ain't *****ing about Yoshi not able to jump out of his shield XD
Seriously, people saying that as a reason is so annoying

 

[TheFast]

1)super armor
2)eggs
3)flutter kick
4)combos well
5)finishes well

i cant find any reason not to use him he is a well round all around good character and people dont see this because u kill urself alot when u are 1st learning him lol there is omost no way around it

 

[pidgey14]

oh yeah forgot to add this:

i dont know. you main him. why dont you tell me?

That is what I wanna hear. someone wanting to know by the MAINS and not anyone else. About time that someone wants to know about Yoshi by the mains' knowledge. I am fed up with people believing the ones who do not main Yoshi, acting as if they know Yoshi more than the mains, which is the most stupid thing ever.

 

[Frown]

or do u play him out of loyalty or what?

I play Yoshi because it's fun.

 

[SharkAttack]

I just switched to maining Yoshi a few days ago and I enjoy his playing style very much. He's the only character in the game for me where I feel all of his attacks (from standard, to tilts, smashes, aerials and specials) can come in handy for my playing style. It's cool how he gets his standard A moves off very quick after dodging. Not only are his attacks good, but Yoshi can survive for quite awhile because his shield doesn't shrink and he's a decent heavyweight. I hope to improve alot with him in months to come after struggling to find a main since Brawl's arrival.

 

[gallax]

does any mainer here think that yoshi should or should not be the worst in the game? some people are starting to argue this and i would like some feedback from those who have experience with it.

 

[ducky285]

People say he in the bottom 5, but I tend to disagree. Middle or top of low tier would be my idea, at least one or two people have said low-mid at the very highest.

He's at least better than Mario, Ganon and Capt. Falcon.

 

[Deleted member]

Mario is better than yoshi, but mario isnt bottom tier either. More like upper mid imo, but thats not the point. Yoshi is not a very good character, but he is viable. He has problems against good campers, because he cant outspam or approach them well. I like playin aggressive characters/players, because i prefer to play campy, and i can egg and pivot grab them all day. Id say hes probably middle of low, maybe upper low tier.

 

[IvanDaMexican2]

the only reason i hate yoshi is b/c of →b, i accidentally fall

other than that yoshi is a really good character

 

[Gindler]

True I hate spamming characters and don't do too will against them (well except wolf and falco, i tend to tear them apart, A campy rob will down right murder my yoshi though "/)

 

[Super S bros brawl]

yoshi grows wings and shut fire now you cant say that is not cool

 

[GodotAA]

I think Yoshi is outshined by Almost all of the characters.

Im not gonna restate half the stuff stated.

 

[J4pu]

I think Yoshi is outshined by Almost all of the characters.

Im not gonna restate half the stuff stated.

Simple pros and cons

PROS
- Good range on tail moves
- Great edgeguarding game, including a spike
- Flexible projectile
- Great recovery if second jump is available
- Grabs can be used to great effect offensively
- Super armor on 2nd jump
- Shield doesn't shrink so he can't be poked
- Egg Roll has high priority and can help with projectile spam (sometimes...)
- High priority jabs
- Good at comboing/stringing attacks and building damage
- Fairly hard to KO due to weight
- B-air makes a great approach
- Decent speed on the ground
- Fastest air movement in the game

CONS
- Recovery is hurt drastically if second jump is unavailable
- Fairly easy to combo (debatable)
- Generally lacks priority, especially against some of the better characters. Probably his biggest problem.
- Inability to jump out of shield and a slow standing grab gives him fewer options while blocking than most other characters. As a result, doesn't do well against shield pressure.
- Only has a few reliable KO moves. Usually has to rely on edgeguarding for KOs.
- Slow rolling animation
- Grabs are laggy (except Pivot Grab)
- Poor matchups against most of the currently perceived top-high characters and very few good matchups in general.
- Does very little that other characters can't do at the same level or better.

I welcome corrections and respectful disagreement to this.

EDIT: Made edits based on what people have said.

^- = Yoshi

It gets sort of annoying when people try to say he's not bad, he's just underrated, if you want pure complete fact, nonbiased proof then see this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954
before you go off spouting it's just because he isn't played often enough to rack up the points, I want you to look at where Ness is despite his insta-death vs Marth

 

[old king coal]

why did sakurai make him so crap? you think he would have some idea?

 

[pidgey14]

maybe because the Yoshi mains here are not playing on that character rankings list. Yoshi can do way better than where he is on that. it isn't just how many are playing as him, it also how good they are with Yoshi. and if he isn't underrated then why is very few playing with him then (and don't say "cuz he sucks" cuz that is a piss poor reason).

And old King Coal: He isn't as bad as what most people think. But obviously there are idiots here, who have no knowledge about Yoshi, *****ing about the smallest things. more idiots believe that. then it is all around the internet and before you know it, everyone has become bloody mind slaves to this forum. Seriously, he isn't as bad as you think.

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

maybe because the Yoshi mains here are not playing on that character rankings list. Yoshi can do way better than where he is on that. it isn't just how many are playing as him, it also how good they are with Yoshi. and if he isn't underrated then why is very few playing with him then (and don't say "cuz he sucks" cuz that is a piss poor reason).

And old King Coal: He isn't as bad as what most people think. But obviously there are idiots here, who have no knowledge about Yoshi, *****ing about the smallest things. more idiots believe that. then it is all around the internet and before you know it, everyone has become bloody mind slaves to this forum. Seriously, he isn't as bad as you think.

The fact that he isn't good IS the reason people don't play as him. If the yoshi mains here are not on that list then where are they? Unless the yoshi mains decide to go out and show they can actually do something, they are in no position to complain about tier listings. If no one can get tournament results with him, chances are he's not very good, and will be listed as such until someone shows that he can.

 

[pidgey14]

That is why I want the Yoshi mains here to go out and play some tourneys instead of the ones who are currently playing as him and making a disappointment, making the hate worse.

 

[Depster]

meh... I live in a very bad place, tourney wise... I'm sure I' get him a few points, but I can't dive quite yet and I would have to drive an hour at the least

 

[Deleted member]

Yoshi isnt very good, plus the fact that there arent very many good players playing yoshi, add up to yoshi being the bottom of that list. He will get higher i reckon, i think ill be able to place in my next tourny, ive gotten alot better.

 

[Airgemini]

Yoshi doesnt suck he's just underrated.

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

Yoshi doesnt suck he's just underrated.

Then why isn't he winning? Yoshi has the lowest number of recorded wins out of everyone. Are you telling me that every single one of the Yoshi players putting themselves out there are absolute garbage and all the good ones are just "hiding" somewhere for some unexplained reason? No one will have any respect for Yoshi unless the players get out and start making it happen. This isn't some irrational hate towards Yoshi out of spite. Have a look over on the falcon/sonic/ganondorf boards and you'll see it's exactly the same. It doesn't matter how "good" your character is if nobody can win with him.

 

[DKKountry]

i dont know. you main him. why dont you tell me? is there any1 who actually thinks he is good or are u just the best with him or do u play him out of loyalty or what?

I've always played him out of loyalty, (Yoshi's Island was teh pwnage) but in Brawl I think he got buffed. His lack of a third jump will always make me cry a little bit but I find him very maneuverable and offensive, more so than in Melee.

 

[Eddosan]

I'm not gonna say Yoshi sucks or not, but what better way to find out than to try him out yourself?

I've never been to tourneys, but there's gonna be one close to UCF around June, so I might try to go and test Yoshi there... Although I'd rather first find a "crew" and play against them. It's the nearest thing to tourney game play, I suppose.

 

[Magus-Cie]

E Rank
31 Captain Falcon (3 top4, 9 pts)
32 Ganondorf (6 top8, 2 top4, 9 pts)
33 Jigglypuff (4 top8, 2 top4, 8 pts)
34 Pokémon Trainer (2 top8, 2 top4, 7 pts)
35 Link (3 top8, 1 top4, 4.5 pts)
36 Samus (2 top8, 1 top4, 4 pts)
37 Yoshi (1 top4, 3 pts)

The problem with Yoshi, C. Falcon, and GDorf are that everyone considers them the worst players, so we have fewer players finding out new tricks, and doing those sorts of things, than compared to say...the marth boards.

Personally, I believe that Gdorf and Yoshi are both mid tier, just because of how different they are from other characters. If you wanted the worst three characters, I would say Mario, Samus, and Link. The problem is not as many people want to play the fatass lord of darkness or the wierd looking dinosaur thing.

It gets sort of annoying when people try to say he's not bad, he's just underrated, if you want pure complete fact, nonbiased proof then see this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=165954
before you go off spouting it's just because he isn't played often enough to rack up the points, I want you to look at where Ness is despite his insta-death vs Marth

That list is actually quite biased. It is pretty much common knowledge that more people play higher tier characters than lower tier ones. I doubt that anybody can say and actually believe it that there are as many Yoshi mainers as there are Snake mainers. This gets back onto the point that more players = more people contributing to making that character better, and also in tournaments, more players = more of that character winning.

If lower tier characters were as bad as some people led us to believe, then if you picked Yoshi or GDorf, you would just never win now would you?


And obviously that rankings list is not an indication of how good a character is. I just noticed PT is on the lowest tier. That isn't right, just so few people want to pick up a character (or three) that are that complicated and learn to play them.

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

The problem with Yoshi, C. Falcon, and GDorf are that everyone considers them the worst players, so we have fewer players finding out new tricks, and doing those sorts of things, than compared to say...the marth boards.

Personally, I believe that Gdorf and Yoshi are both mid tier, just because of how different they are from other characters. If you wanted the worst three characters, I would say Mario, Samus, and Link. The problem is not as many people want to play the fatass lord of darkness or the wierd looking dinosaur thing.



That list is actually quite biased. It is pretty much common knowledge that more people play higher tier characters than lower tier ones. I doubt that anybody can say and actually believe it that there are as many Yoshi mainers as there are Snake mainers. This gets back onto the point that more players = more people contributing to making that character better, and also in tournaments, more players = more of that character winning.

If lower tier characters were as bad as some people led us to believe, then if you picked Yoshi or GDorf, you would just never win now would you?


And obviously that rankings list is not an indication of how good a character is. I just noticed PT is on the lowest tier. That isn't right, just so few people want to pick up a character (or three) that are that complicated and learn to play them.

This is true to an extent, and yet other characters who aren't particularly popular like Wario, Dedede, and Donkey Kong are all miles ahead of them on that list. It's not foolproof, but there is some truth there in terms of who's got what it takes and who doesn't. Like I said, if you believe you can do better than the current yoshi mainers, by all means go do it. I encourage you.

 

[Magus-Cie]

Like I said, if you believe you can do better than the current yoshi mainers, by all means go do it. I encourage you.

No way I can do better than the Yoshi mains personally. I just posted all that because as a GDorf main, I am tired of being called the worst character in the game. Yoshi is a beast, and doesn't deserve that any more than GDorf does >.>

I feel that Yoshi, GDorf, and C. Falcon mainers should all ban together to show why everyone else is wrong about us!

 

[bigman40]

I'm down for that suggestion

 

[Meta Dude]

yoshi mainers don't really care what other people have to say about our main.

seriously, we don't.

 

[Ray/Boshi]

yoshi mainers don't really care what other people have to say about our main.

seriously, we don't.

Could'nt have said it any better myself.