YGD - As the snow melts, the mighty Dinosaur rises once more!

[Delta-cod]

I'll only use Yoshi to ditto other Yoshis with. Gotta keep my streak of knocking on Yoshi players in the ditto.

 

[Depster]

I still think Yoshi dittos are just really goofy.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Most dittos are stupid honestly. The only dittos that are actually solid demonstrations of skill are ones with characters that are centered around spacing/footsies like Marth.

 

[Nikes]

Doesn't mean they're not fun :]

 

[Z'zgashi]

Not if theyre Bowser dittos. Literally just grab release infiniting each other into dtilt over and over.

 

[Sunnysunny]

So how many of you guys are planning on playing Yoshi (assuming hes in) and/or another predetermined character(s) in Smash 4 and how many of you are basically just going to wait until the game is out to decide? Personally, Im looking at my main 3 (Yoshi/Bowser/Mario) and probably Samus + other possible unconfirmed additions (Wonder Red pls) and will decide between my favorites dependent on which has the playstyle I prefer best.

I've come way to far as Lucario to want to switch. I'll probably play around as WFT and Yoshi as secondaries, but imma stay with home doge regardless of how good he is next game. And he's looking good, lol. I have a feeling A LOT of the characters that havn't changed much are gonna dominate early game tournaments until people figure out what the other characters have to offer.

Btw Colorado's power rankings have finally been determined. I made it in at 7. ;D Bought damn time~

 

[Nikes]

Congrats on the PR placing Sunny!^^ Also, glad to hear the character loyalty, he's sounding super strong so you've got nothing to worry about there.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Not if theyre Bowser dittos. Literally just grab release infiniting each other into dtilt over and over.

Assuming they'll know that.

hint they won't

Also, I'm really looking forward to Yoshi. He'll be my main.

 

[Depster]

I just wish we knew a little about him.

 

[Nikes]

Even though it won't likely have an impact on his tier placing, I'm really hoping he gets his 'modern' design like Bowser did, so he looks like he does in the sports games etc. I should assume he will since he'd look out of place otherwise, but Sakurai's leaving us anxious, as he does.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I'm still gonna use Yoshi.
If rumors are true with Baby Mario on him, then prolly drop him for Lucario or Luigi depending how they feel whenever I get a hold of the game.

 

[Scatz]

I'll only use Yoshi to ditto other Yoshis with. Gotta keep my streak of knocking on Yoshi players in the ditto.

Rematch. I'll Dtilt you into denial, AND I still won't let you gimp me in SSB4

I've come way to far as Lucario to want to switch. I'll probably play around as WFT and Yoshi as secondaries, but imma stay with home doge regardless of how good he is next game. And he's looking good, lol. I have a feeling A LOT of the characters that havn't changed much are gonna dominate early game tournaments until people figure out what the other characters have to offer.

Btw Colorado's power rankings have finally been determined. I made it in at 7. ;D Bought damn time~

Such Lucario. Many auras. Much furry. So DBZ. Wow.

I'm still gonna use Yoshi.
If rumors are true with Baby Mario on him, then prolly drop him for Lucario or Luigi depending how they feel whenever I get a hold of the game.

If this happens, I will instantly drop Yoshi from my entire mind and delete everything about him from my belongings.

 

[Depster]

I haven't heard that... sounds disgusting.

 

[CourageHound]

Dat little mac
So much for eggs.

Anyways, omg he looks so much fun! I think i'll add him to the list of characters I'll try out

 

[Nikes]

Have you seen his super armor and 1HKO meter thing? It can't be real, surely...

 

[CourageHound]

lol it's real.

Sakurai even said in his Mii Verse post it's a 1HKO. The speed and ground little mac covers with his run and roll are ridiculous. He runs under Mario's fire balls from across the stage and gets in a dash attack while Mario's still in cooldown. relying on eggs is not an option unless he's offstage. Speeking of him being offstage, I think Yoshi would would dominate him offstage.

I also think egg lay would be sooo useful vs that character with his counters and super armor.

 

[Nikes]

Hoping for our speedy pivot grab to return, we'll need it.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Mac's 1HKO requires like a full 2 second charge lol. It's basically just a 'oh, you missed Rest/I broke your shield? Well, you're dead', it's even too slow for hard reads, unless theyre REALLY hard reads lol. Unless of course this gets changed seeing as the game isnt out yet lol.

Oh and that invincible (or maybe just projectile invincible if thats a thing now) jumping punch with low cooldown on whiff AND that can be used in midair? Just calling it now that this guy will be an anti zoning monster. Hopefully the invincibility only applies to the grounded version or something (and Im assuming it's his side b seeing as it can be done in mid air).

Even with the side b though, his recovery doesnt look too good. Shoryuken is undeniably the shortest recovery wise in smash history (unless you count Sopo lol), plus assuming he goes into special fall or something after side b, which is still slower than the spacies' side b's and lacks the sheer speed that made those somewhat hard to punish. Looks like its gonna be tough to recover with this guy.

A lot of other theory craft/impressions I have, just dont wanna write a novel atm. (I love just looking WAY too much into videos like this and really trying to dissect and understand as much as I possibly can about characters and such, a guilty pleasure of mine I suppose~)

Also, since alternate costumes are looking to be a thing in Smash 4, Im REALLY hoping Mac's alt is him in his training hoodie and we get different colors. A reverse color scheme hoodie Mac? (Green hoodie, purple glove) Mmmmm, delicious. Please Sakurai.

 

[Nikes]

Mac's 1HKO requires like a full 2 second charge lol. It's basically just a 'oh, you missed Rest/I broke your shield? Well, you're dead', it's even too slow for hard reads, unless theyre REALLY hard reads lol. Unless of course this gets changed seeing as the game isnt out yet lol.

I can certainly understand that, but he was getting no knockback whatsoever in the trailer even with Bowser staying in his face with jabs.

I've noticed an oddity in that part of the video actually, Bowser's on 39% before the camera zooms in on Little Mac, when it zooms back out Bowsers suddenly on 230% before the strike lands 0_o

 

[Z'zgashi]

Even if it's super armored, just grab or even wait and punish. Like I said, could be used to hard punish, but even if he starts charging right before you use something slow like Falcon punch, you should still have enough time to finish Falcon punch then roll/jump/etc away with how much start up it currently has. I mean, it has more start up than Falcon punch, and honestly, who even gets hit by that lol.

And Im guessing it does around 150%. Bowser was getting hit by Megaman when it panned away, and that seems like nice round number they would put something like that at.

This definitely isnt a move Mac players will use all willy nilly unless it can be used preemptively during its charge, in which I could see it being used to tech chase (since the charge is armored) and make reads, ESPECIALLY if it can be canceled while charged, which seeing as its probably a special move, is entirely possible. Otherwise though, this move isnt scary in the sense that its constantly peering over your shoulder threatening the ability to one shot you out of the blue at any moment, its main power comes in the fact that if Mac can do anything that causes massive hitstun, a good example being shield breaks, then you have to watch for that. If Mac has high shield damage, that in turn makes Mac able to put this move to use by trying to whittle down your shield, which can make the opponent be scared to block, which in turn can make them respond differently to pressure situations allowing him to get in the opponent's head and take advantage of their other evasion options. THAT is the main thing a character like Mac would gain from this type of move.

 

[Sunnysunny]

And Im guessing it does around 150%. Bowser was getting hit by Megaman when it panned away, and that seems like nice round number they would put something like that at.

Nah, they mislead ya in the video. They do a jump cut, and before Mac fires off his punch Bowsers suddenly at like, 300 percent. I always thought because of the jump cut Macs OHKO was gonna work like Lucario's aurasphere, but with ridiculous charge up time. Missing it, would feel like missing a Wario waft or something. All the jump cuts make it irritating to see how he's fireing it off though.

If it worked like a cancellable Ikes side-b that'd be really great for the sheer threat of it alone. Probably nice for catching landings too. I hope it works that way instead. Mac's speed already looks irritating to deal with as a Lucario. He's like a grounded sonic, but with actually okay hitboxes and possible kill potential. If he can store up a OHKO he'd be looking like the ultimate Lulu counterpick. Bleck.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Ut oh.

"His biggest feature is his Power Meter. When this gets charged up, his standard special move changes! It turns into a one-hit-K.O. uppercut." -Sakurai!

This strongly impliys it works like DK's charge punch.
****.

 

[CourageHound]

I think it's like charge punch, but you can't store the power and gott use it on the spot after charging.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

It has nothing on Ivysaur's Solar Beam.

 

[Karaoke Man]

Pivot Grab > Lil Mac



The world has spoken

 

[Depster]

Lol, easy mac. That's pretty good.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

As a person that doesn't live in the U.S, I commend you guys that do, Mac n' cheese....fantastic invention. Even those that are cheap, fast and easy to make.
gawd, they're delicious. Also, 5 dollar pizza.

 

[Karaoke Man]

Another thing to consider in the Snake MU: Snake cannot handle mobile characters very well at all.

He may be able to live until the cows come home (wherever they ran off too), but once Yoshi has the momentum, he can juggle Snake for days. Though here's the thing:
"Once Yoshi has momentum" is eternally vague and will set people up to not even know what to do haha. So by momentum, it's pretty much how Raptor put it. It's quite simple if you think about it, really. Snake's mobility (outside of his mortar slide) is terribly buns, but Yoshi's Air Mobility is the best in the game. Sure, the acceleration isn't perfect, but it's more than enough to cause trouble for Snake. Let me put this another way:

Since there's no other real reliable candidate for this type of play, I want you all to envision yourself playing very similiar to Raptor; You're (full) hopping around all over the place throwing out these unbelievably random Fair's that seem to hit Snake 96% of the time as well as any flies that may have been near him. Half the time, they jump into this because they think that there is no possible way that thing is going to connect, but it DOES and majority of the time it will. The reason being is because Snake CAN'T hit you in these zones in any way shape or form. At these weird angles you can pressure Snake and majority of characters into defense corners. The pressure in today's Yoshi metagame doesn't come from how well you can chuck eggs at him, but it's how well you can spontaneously get in his face using his best quality; his air mobility. The cool thing is that Yoshi's Oos game is nonexistant, but Yoshi's momentum game is unbelievably destructive. By that I mean: If Yoshi gets rewarded from a bait, this Raptor (huehue) will chase you to the end of freaking time. 90% of the time, there is no escape. While other characters like Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Wario etc. also share this quality, it's also present in Yoshi, unlike the other examples, Yoshi has the defensive game to make up for what he can't do out of shield. So basically what I'm getting at is...

If you get rewarded from a bait, your follows up will be nearly impossible to evade as Yoshi (in this style) can play both offensive and defensive at the same time. Their stock should be gone as a result. It's a very nifty style of baiting that takes advantage of Yoshi's best and somewhat underrated character quality.

Funny cause' we all thought Raptor was just throwing out moves for the longest time LOL. But what he actually did.....

Was accidentally discover the missing loophole in Yoshi's metagame in general. Combine this with the robotic outcomes of Scatz's DR efficiency.... (I'm not being biased this time) and Delta's tent of Egg Shells

You'll have what I'm theorizing as an Ultimate Yoshi.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Pretty sure if you combine the best traits from every top player of every character you get the Ultimate ________.

 

[Karaoke Man]

That's exactly what I'm saying in a nutshell.

Being very well rounded in all the styles of the said character is how it should be imo. I know there's a lot of players that decide to play one way and one way only. but if someone knows how to counter that one way, gotta' know when and how to switch up the styles. Which I admit, I'm not perfect at doing even as Yoshi. :S

 

[CourageHound]

Dude this helped out so much. I have a pool with MVD today

@ RaptorTEC i rewatched your match vs fatal and idk if you kneww this already, but if your back is the the ledge and you back roll to the edge, you can immediatly buffer an egg toss and Yoshi will auto slide to the ledge.

 

[Delta-cod]

Pretty sure you're giving Raptor too much credit. Dude totally just throws out Fair. =P

I'm also convinced that a MU savvy Snake will just Mortar Slide if you full hop ever.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Nah man theres a method to all my madness. Seriously though, the mu really isn't bad at all delta. I played with Dekillsage plenty of times who knows the mu and he also thinks it isn't bad. -1 at worst.

@courage That sounds really unsafe :x Rolling towards the ledge with Yoshis bad roll is risky. Did I do that in the video out of panick or something or are you saying I should have done that at some point?

 

[Karaoke Man]

Nah. It's kinnnd of difficult, but it's not as difficult as you think. I 2 stocked Blacktwins' Snake with Jigglypuff. We'll let that sink in for a moment. lol

But yeah, it's the same concept. Jigglypuff can't reliably approach, but has all the baiting tools she needs (which is similar to Yoshi in this case). And similar to Yoshi, her best quality is juggling.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Another thing to consider in the Snake MU: Snake cannot handle mobile characters very well at all.

He may be able to live until the cows come home (wherever they ran off too), but once Yoshi has the momentum, he can juggle Snake for days. Though here's the thing:
"Once Yoshi has momentum" is eternally vague and will set people up to not even know what to do haha. So by momentum, it's pretty much how Raptor put it. It's quite simple if you think about it, really. Snake's mobility (outside of his mortar slide) is terribly buns, but Yoshi's Air Mobility is the best in the game. Sure, the acceleration isn't perfect, but it's more than enough to cause trouble for Snake. Let me put this another way:

Since there's no other real reliable candidate for this type of play, I want you all to envision yourself playing very similiar to Raptor; You're (full) hopping around all over the place throwing out these unbelievably random Fair's that seem to hit Snake 96% of the time as well as any flies that may have been near him. Half the time, they jump into this because they think that there is no possible way that thing is going to connect, but it DOES and majority of the time it will. The reason being is because Snake CAN'T hit you in these zones in any way shape or form. At these weird angles you can pressure Snake and majority of characters into defense corners. The pressure in today's Yoshi metagame doesn't come from how well you can chuck eggs at him, but it's how well you can spontaneously get in his face using his best quality; his air mobility. The cool thing is that Yoshi's Oos game is nonexistant, but Yoshi's momentum game is unbelievably destructive. By that I mean: If Yoshi gets rewarded from a bait, this Raptor (huehue) will chase you to the end of freaking time. 90% of the time, there is no escape. While other characters like Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Wario etc. also share this quality, it's also present in Yoshi, unlike the other examples, Yoshi has the defensive game to make up for what he can't do out of shield. So basically what I'm getting at is...

If you get rewarded from a bait, your follows up will be nearly impossible to evade as Yoshi (in this style) can play both offensive and defensive at the same time. Their stock should be gone as a result. It's a very nifty style of baiting that takes advantage of Yoshi's best and somewhat underrated character quality.

Funny cause' we all thought Raptor was just throwing out moves for the longest time LOL. But what he actually did.....

Was accidentally discover the missing loophole in Yoshi's metagame in general. Combine this with the robotic outcomes of Scatz's DR efficiency.... (I'm not being biased this time) and Delta's tent of Egg Shells

You'll have what I'm theorizing as an Ultimate Yoshi.

I actually sort of play a similiar game myself.
Listen to this:

I've switched off Yoshi as a main for around a year (actually a bit less than that, but I never used him that much). I did it because, throughout my tournament span, I never had confidence in my Yoshi. So last year, I sort of thought, "quit kidding yourself" and finally switched to my "secondary" as my main.

Although, a bit less than two weeks ago, I've seemed to have re-discovered the Yoshi within myself. What I really needed to become a good player...that is, the ability to be able to think through my game and go on, applying creative strategies, a bait here and there. Basically, I became sort of "unpredictable" (something I've always seen on Yoshi's potential). I played as creatively as I could with Yoshi, and I would bait silly and unorthodox things and tend to bair and successfully Dash Grab about 90% of the time.

This was mostly against our Top 1, over here. He's a Snake main. He would later accuse me of 'spamming' Grab and would try to discredit me for it, saying he's just playing bad. In truth, I told him I was actually getting those grabs off reads...because that was literally what it was.

Dude this helped out so much. I have a pool with MVD today .

Good luck.
MVD said the Yoshi MU is easy.


I realize how creative Yoshi's moveset allows me to be.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Of course he said that he's cocky as **** and it's Yoshi a low tier!!!! Lol

 

[CourageHound]

Nah man theres a method to all my madness. Seriously though, the mu really isn't bad at all delta. I played with Dekillsage plenty of times who knows the mu and he also thinks it isn't bad. -1 at worst.

@courage That sounds really unsafe :x Rolling towards the ledge with Yoshis bad roll is risky. Did I do that in the video out of panick or something or are you saying I should have done that at some point?

Yea you did that like three times in a row out of panic

Btw umm, MVD beat me. He went all MK. Not really mad though, hes just way better.

 

[Sunnysunny]

If I had a quarter for everytime I was beaten in tourney by an MK i'd probably have enough money for smash 4 by now.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Btw umm, MVD beat me. He went all MK. Not really mad though, hes just way better.

I'll avenge you.

 

[Delta-cod]

I mean, you can say the MU isn't bad in general, and I don't think it is for the most part. But then you get to the part that matters, those first stocks that you need to take to give you momentum and a real lead, and then you realize there's no safe way to kill Snake, and all your safe options don't lead to kills, and that if you mess up ONE read you die, or your 50% lead is gone, and the MU sucks. Because when you do mess up and lose that lead, you still have to kill Snake, except each mistake is now putting you 1/5th of the way to your next death, and you need to work it all back.

We have the tools to deal with Snake, but our margin of error is so abysmally small that the MU just becomes that much harder. The amount of times I've lost last stock last hit to Snake just because he has so many more tools to finish out that situation is unreal.