Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I'm just not entering anymore. Game's more fun to screw around with Random in, and I can cheese my way to better results in Project M, looooooooooooooool.
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YGD - As the snow melts, the mighty Dinosaur rises once more!
- Thread starter Delta-cod
- Start date
I was gonna tooooooo.
I went to a tournament recently, with full intent just to go random the entire time, because I stopped practicing for months, and just ended up going lucario anyways and getting 4th. :T
It's hard to goof around when you're characters good enough to actually get some money if you try. :T
Atleast P:M yoshi is goofy as **** so you can probably win and have fun at that~
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Project M Yoshi requires effort and tech skill. Passssssssssssssssss.
BUT THE JANK OF HIS EGG ROLL IS OH SO DELICIOUS DELTA~ <3
mmMMMM
Edit: Aww yiss. Prinny, dood!
mmMMMM
Edit: Aww yiss. Prinny, dood!
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CourageHound
Smash Ace
^^You two are now my favorite.
Also reading the last page, it's sad, but it's true xD. I guess I'm gunna have to wait until smash4 to take a stand and have a chance at winning with a (hopefully) buffed Yoshi or a good character cuz the only character in Brawl I really know is Yoshi. I don't regret anything tho. He's fun as ****.
I don't regret my choices, but I do regret that the developers didn't take the time to make the balance closer. Here's hoping SSB4 has better balance. Idk what route they'll take Yoshi for this game, but as long as I can be sneaky and play a counterattack playstyle, I'll be happy (and of course, have a chance at winning).
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I'm a lot more inclined to go for good characters now than I was at the outset of Brawl. Feeling totally hopeless puts me in the worst of moods, and playing bad characters gets me feeling that way a lot. Urk.
Well, the balancing is being done by the same folks who do Tekken and soul calibur. I played both competitively for awhile, and they did an astounding job at making sure every character viable. Tier list still existed and such, but characters weren't spread very far apart, and it really did feel like any character could win a big tourney.
Smash is just a completely different beast from any other fighting game though. They got rid of planking with the new ledge mechanic they introduced, which is cool. Atleast that means they're acknowledging some problems that were present in brawl.
But then there's little character specific stuff Sakurai says that's completely off base like "Marths shield breaker was underused so we beefed it up." Shield breaker was already pretty good in this game. It may have been used sparingly and couldn't one shot shields, but it dwindled em enough to the point where your characters vulnerable to every other move Marth has to offer.
Little things like that.
Regardless, I still think it's gonna be the most balanced smash game in the series.
...Probably.
Atleast Lucario's looking good. ;D
Smash is just a completely different beast from any other fighting game though. They got rid of planking with the new ledge mechanic they introduced, which is cool. Atleast that means they're acknowledging some problems that were present in brawl.
But then there's little character specific stuff Sakurai says that's completely off base like "Marths shield breaker was underused so we beefed it up." Shield breaker was already pretty good in this game. It may have been used sparingly and couldn't one shot shields, but it dwindled em enough to the point where your characters vulnerable to every other move Marth has to offer.
Little things like that.
Regardless, I still think it's gonna be the most balanced smash game in the series.
...Probably.
Atleast Lucario's looking good. ;D
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D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
Wha happen? :v
In other news, I did solidly picking up Yoshi after some hiatus (been concentrating alot on Ike and Bowser). Just played creatively and did well. That's the dealbreaker.
CourageHound
Smash Ace
Well, anyone have any advice on the snake MU? Kinda struggle with snake's bs a lot...
Nikes
Smash Lord
Unfortunately, I'm stuck with the Idon'tliveinUSAsoIcan'tgetgoodenoughMUexperiencetoreliablyhelpyou curse What's the biggest trouble you're having though, Nades, DACUS's, tech chases...?
Regardless, the best advice I can think of:
Stay in his face a lot so he can't set up traps n' trixiez, take advantage of his poor mobility and our slippery-ness, and imho, go for gimps. Good Snake players won't make this easy needless to say, but he's so susceptible to it so you may as well try anyway.
If he airdodges offstage he's as good as dead, unless you've allowed him to recover high. When he's offstage you can just throw an egg and bait an airdodge or let him take the hit, then act from there. (I think you need a strong hit with an egg to knock him out of his cypher however) He's not going to cypher near the ledge since if you grab him and don't pummel he's dead. (You can just spike his C4 recovery if he tries it and you read his DI in time)
I like to weave in and out of his range with DJC mix-ups using Breverses and wavebounces at different distances and heights and that works wonders as long as you're still mindful of his phantom hitboxes.
Man, I make it sound so easy
Now if only I could condense my sentences better...>_>
What's the biggest trouble you're having though, Nades, DACUS's, tech chases...?Regardless, the best advice I can think of:
Stay in his face a lot so he can't set up traps n' trixiez, take advantage of his poor mobility and our slippery-ness, and imho, go for gimps. Good Snake players won't make this easy needless to say, but he's so susceptible to it so you may as well try anyway.
If he airdodges offstage he's as good as dead, unless you've allowed him to recover high. When he's offstage you can just throw an egg and bait an airdodge or let him take the hit, then act from there. (I think you need a strong hit with an egg to knock him out of his cypher however) He's not going to cypher near the ledge since if you grab him and don't pummel he's dead. (You can just spike his C4 recovery if he tries it and you read his DI in time)
I like to weave in and out of his range with DJC mix-ups using Breverses and wavebounces at different distances and heights and that works wonders as long as you're still mindful of his phantom hitboxes.
Man, I make it sound so easy
Now if only I could condense my sentences better...>_>
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Snake is harrrrrrrrrrrrrd. I'm pretty sure basic Snake beats us; a Snake trying to do fancy explosive control that isn't incredibly proficient at it just gives us opportunities to get in and do damage. Simple play will beat us because we can't deal with these huge hitboxes, nor can we kill Snake from a neutral position.
Playing my competitive friends can suck because they play good characters and I play Yoshi so I just lose all the time because Yoshi sucks. Losing all the time is no fun. Most of my wins come from people not knowing how to exploit Yoshi (because he's so damn exploitable). Playing good characters is fun. I have options. I can do janky **** but it works because the character is good. It's fantastic.Wha happen? :v
In other news, I did solidly picking up Yoshi after some hiatus (been concentrating alot on Ike and Bowser). Just played creatively and did well. That's the dealbreaker.
D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
What good character do you play, anyway?
RaptorTEC
Smash Champion
Snake is ezpz I'll write something later.
Also Gashi I don't agree with baits and tricks (using Yoshis mobility) being bad because it's another way of waiting for your opponent to screw up (or whatever it was you said)
You're basically forcing them to. Eventually your opponent has to commit to something and no one plays perfect so they will screw up (like you said) That shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing though because perfect play isn't possible. This is a mental game and a lot of it falls into conditioning your opponent which is something Yoshi does very well due to his mobility and threat of egg lay. If you're not forcing your opponent to "screw up" you're not conditioning well enough (this isn't including something like a misinput or horribly mispaced attack).Yoshis offensive game is fine. His defensive game isn't. One thing I really like about Yoshi is that when he hits he hits hard. His damage output in general is pretty high imo but what makes it better is that you can easily keep the momentum going. His defensive game really just consists of eggs and pivot grabs which from my experience just doesn't work anymore. I could just be really bad at it but it seems everyone agrees.
Like I said before Yoshi's only real problem is his shield. And that's not only because we can't punish out of it. It's also the reason why we can't reliably get a kill. It almost always has to be a hard read because we can't just powershield > kill move like the rest of the cast. We can't do simple things like zone while having a threat of shield. We have to do it without shielding because more often than not we will be put at a disadvantage for it. There's so many little things we can't do because of our shield.
Edit: ugh I always suck at trying to get my point across and I typed this on my phone so I hope this makes sense
Also Gashi I don't agree with baits and tricks (using Yoshis mobility) being bad because it's another way of waiting for your opponent to screw up (or whatever it was you said)
You're basically forcing them to. Eventually your opponent has to commit to something and no one plays perfect so they will screw up (like you said) That shouldn't be viewed as a bad thing though because perfect play isn't possible. This is a mental game and a lot of it falls into conditioning your opponent which is something Yoshi does very well due to his mobility and threat of egg lay. If you're not forcing your opponent to "screw up" you're not conditioning well enough (this isn't including something like a misinput or horribly mispaced attack).Yoshis offensive game is fine. His defensive game isn't. One thing I really like about Yoshi is that when he hits he hits hard. His damage output in general is pretty high imo but what makes it better is that you can easily keep the momentum going. His defensive game really just consists of eggs and pivot grabs which from my experience just doesn't work anymore. I could just be really bad at it but it seems everyone agrees.
Like I said before Yoshi's only real problem is his shield. And that's not only because we can't punish out of it. It's also the reason why we can't reliably get a kill. It almost always has to be a hard read because we can't just powershield > kill move like the rest of the cast. We can't do simple things like zone while having a threat of shield. We have to do it without shielding because more often than not we will be put at a disadvantage for it. There's so many little things we can't do because of our shield.
Edit: ugh I always suck at trying to get my point across and I typed this on my phone so I hope this makes sense
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Realize that no one likes to lose. It's human nature. Competitive play brings that part of us out more often. So when we clash internally at deciding to play the character that we love (that could be bad) vs playing a good character we like makes a big difference in the long run in morale and in our choices.
It literally sucks for Yoshi in the first two games because he has to put forth tons of effort to master his skill set to become efficient at high level play. His defensive options were slightly better due to parry mechanics and light shielding allowing him to have some threat in having a shield, but not nearly a big deal due to the engine of those two games (Melee & to some extent 64). Brawl's form still sucks because he has to focus more on avoiding getting stuck in his shield due to losing parry and light shield. None of the games has made any improvement to his blindspot either. He's just stuck at the same position because of his shield mechanics and the blindspot.
Snake is going to make you feel on edge the entire game mainly cause we can't kill him fast enough. The threat of dying around 120 (from bad DI) vs his 23742987429879% makes being tied in stocks a nightmare. I've always felt that Yoshi functions his best where he sits at mid-range from his opponent and constantly going to and from long range and short range (this statement is in general). When you really think about his playstyle in comparison to SCV, he's very close to Aeon's (Lizardman) playstyle. Mid-range will make Snake think a little before bringing out a grenade, but you should also be far enough to react to him making an approach with dash attack or walk up > Ftilt. There's more I can explain, but I need to eat. Byez.
@
RaptorTEC
It was good. Your post made sense to get your point across.
It literally sucks for Yoshi in the first two games because he has to put forth tons of effort to master his skill set to become efficient at high level play. His defensive options were slightly better due to parry mechanics and light shielding allowing him to have some threat in having a shield, but not nearly a big deal due to the engine of those two games (Melee & to some extent 64). Brawl's form still sucks because he has to focus more on avoiding getting stuck in his shield due to losing parry and light shield. None of the games has made any improvement to his blindspot either. He's just stuck at the same position because of his shield mechanics and the blindspot.
Snake is going to make you feel on edge the entire game mainly cause we can't kill him fast enough. The threat of dying around 120 (from bad DI) vs his 23742987429879% makes being tied in stocks a nightmare. I've always felt that Yoshi functions his best where he sits at mid-range from his opponent and constantly going to and from long range and short range (this statement is in general). When you really think about his playstyle in comparison to SCV, he's very close to Aeon's (Lizardman) playstyle. Mid-range will make Snake think a little before bringing out a grenade, but you should also be far enough to react to him making an approach with dash attack or walk up > Ftilt. There's more I can explain, but I need to eat. Byez.
@
RaptorTEC
It was good. Your post made sense to get your point across.
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Delta-cod
Smash Hero
None, lol. Not at a tournament proficient level. But I've started derping around with Marth because at least he has lots of disjoint, fast hitboxes, and a shield.
Raptor, we're pretty vulnerable while doing our tricks. Like, if the MK knows what's what, he'll just Nado every time we jump. And that removes an entire B-reverse game and lots of our mobility. And we lose grounded spacing to him because he's so fast. Snake is a little better, but he can just DACUS when we jump to similar effect. This becomes less of a problem the lower you go in the tier list, but it's a pretty large issue.
AHAHAHA
I actually actually main him in SCV~ I can't help but always go towards the reptile characters. Atleast Aeons viable. Lizards tend to be bad in fighting games for whatever reason. :T
I think yoshi's biggest problem is that too many characters force him to play there game. In brawl, the top tier is dominated by characters that almost completely change the rules of the game like Icys grabs, Diddys banana's, and Snakes grenades.
What separates a mid-tier from a high tier in this game is probably versatility to deal with that. Ideally, Lucario would love to always keep his opponents at mid-range where he can safely poke and bait, but it doesn't always pan out that way, and he's forced to play differently for certain match ups, sorta like yoshi. The difference is, even when he's forced to, he atleast has tools to deal with fighting at every range effectively. Even if they're not the best.
Aeon in SCV as well. When people get in on him, he atleast has his really good 2D move, to interrupt pressure. Yoshi needs something like that. Well. He would have something like that if it wasn't for his shield, but ya get what i'm getting at.
Either he needs to be given the tools to keep his opponent in his mid-range game and have it be actually punishing, or have more versatility for when he is put out of his element and forced to play by the opponents rules. Ahh I dunno. Correct me if i'm wrong here. I don't play this character anymore for the same reasons ya'll ain't having too much fun maining him. :T
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CourageHound
Smash Ace
Thnx guys. My problem vs snake is mostly getting in safely and avoiding trades. Nades are annoying, but avoidable, yet I have trouble getting real damage in withought eating tilts. Also a few snakes i've played also spot dodge egg lay while holding nades. If i try and beat the spot dodge, i 80% of the time get blown up.
My other two problems are tech chases and getting the kill.
My other two problems are tech chases and getting the kill.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Snakes that are familiar with the Yoshi MU will spotdodge with nades most of the time because we like to grab, and the nade will usually trade with us. Snake wins all trades with us.
It's INCREDIBLY hard to kill Snake. He's very capable of avoiding killing blows, meaning he can live forever. Our grabs don't set up for kills well, so he can use his shield really well. And one missed grab or shielded attack means an Ftilt for like, 24%, or an utilt for the kill. It's awful.
As far as tech chasing goes, I tend to sit still to see if they'll shield. If they sit in their shield long enough you can pick a roll and they'll need to shield drop and try to catch you. Our rolls aren't too good though. Sometimes I'll just stay grounded and hope they ftilt me or something to save me the potential extra damage.
It's INCREDIBLY hard to kill Snake. He's very capable of avoiding killing blows, meaning he can live forever. Our grabs don't set up for kills well, so he can use his shield really well. And one missed grab or shielded attack means an Ftilt for like, 24%, or an utilt for the kill. It's awful.
As far as tech chasing goes, I tend to sit still to see if they'll shield. If they sit in their shield long enough you can pick a roll and they'll need to shield drop and try to catch you. Our rolls aren't too good though. Sometimes I'll just stay grounded and hope they ftilt me or something to save me the potential extra damage.
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
I main Leixia and Pat in SC5. As someone who has always mained Xianghua, the Leixia nerfs are sooooo hard to deal with sometimes, I see all these things I could do in other games and just cant cuz shes so bad lol. Thats the main reason I picked up Pat, he has most of the same freedoms Xianghua always had and his mobile poke game is very similar.
CourageHound
Smash Ace
Whatya mean? Like special command throws after a grab or egg lay?
D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
You should use Pikachu.
I am going to use Pikachu.
Well, most of his game has been made based on rediculous aggression (melee & 64) and Brawl sort of made him a counter attack type character. With the base of his character relying on kicks and moreso his tongue, it'd possibly be the perfect opportunity to make him get most of his combos/damage on grabs. This would make him a fearful character when he has the advantage and his mixup game would be much more appropriate since it's realisitcally detrimental to be swallowed by a dinosaur with a near bottomless stomache. It's, in a sense, a compromise of defense, offense, and mixup that all of us would like more than what we've seen through these games now imo.
Copycats. I've been co-maining Pika before all you peepz! >:|
Nikes
Smash Lord
Pika is fun :]
D
Deleted member 189823
Guest
:L
I want a fast, gimmicky character people don't know much about. There Yoshi, and then there's PikaPika.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Pika sucks.
Play Lucario.
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
Play Bowser.
CourageHound
Smash Ace
Play DeDeDe
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
So how many of you guys are planning on playing Yoshi (assuming hes in) and/or another predetermined character(s) in Smash 4 and how many of you are basically just going to wait until the game is out to decide? Personally, Im looking at my main 3 (Yoshi/Bowser/Mario) and probably Samus + other possible unconfirmed additions (Wonder Red pls) and will decide between my favorites dependent on which has the playstyle I prefer best.
CourageHound
Smash Ace
Huuurrr, if we are talkin currently confirmed and unconfirmed then I'm for sure gonna main Yoshi, Bowser, and Wolf(if he gets in hopefully). Also possibly Lucario if they speed him up and maybe D3. I'm also interested in the possible newcommers.
Nikes
Smash Lord
Play Yoshi (no really)
Watch me become da bess Smash 4 Yushee
I'm gonna stay a solo Yoshi main, but keep my Brawl 'secondaries' (too many to be worth listing) for friendlies despite what tier they end up in.
Watch me become da bess Smash 4 Yushee
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
Megaman and WFT.
Z'zgashi
Smash Legend
Oh **** I forgot about WFT, i dunno if Ill main her, but she intrigues me, dat soccerball headbutt mainly. If it ends up actually being a good projectile and has as much of an annoying as **** angle as it looks, Id probably enjoy her seeing as how she'll probably be mobile (if she isnt then Sakurai is stupid lol)
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In order: Mario > Bowser > Pikachu > Fox > Lucario > Megaman > XXX > Yoshi
I always do Mario first to get used to the new engine. From there, I mess around with old characters (save Yoshi) just to get the feel of their changes. Afterwards, I mess with new characters, then play Yoshi last since my expectations always tend to be high for him.
I need to update this avatar... It's hella old... lol
I always do Mario first to get used to the new engine. From there, I mess around with old characters (save Yoshi) just to get the feel of their changes. Afterwards, I mess with new characters, then play Yoshi last since my expectations always tend to be high for him.
I need to update this avatar... It's hella old... lol
Depster
Smash Champion
I love Yoshi too much to not use him again haha. I'll give Falcon a shot as well. Maybe Rosalina just cause she looks mad interesting. But outside that I'll just see who piques my interest after i unlock everyone.
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CourageHound
Smash Ace
I always tend to lean towards characters that I love or suite my playstyle. Yoshi fits both. I picked up DDD cuz i liked him as a character and he beats half our bad matchups. However i feel as if i'm not improving with him at the rate I should since he doesn't nessecerily fity my playstyle. After messing around with a buncha characters, Lucario and Wolf fit both catagories.
In terms of Smash4 There's no way I can't main Yoshi and Bowser. I'm hoping Wolf gets in and i'm interested to see what changes or lack thereof was made to DDD and Lucario. Rosalina may be a little too slow for me, but she is being considered
In terms of Smash4 There's no way I can't main Yoshi and Bowser. I'm hoping Wolf gets in and i'm interested to see what changes or lack thereof was made to DDD and Lucario. Rosalina may be a little too slow for me, but she is being considered
RaptorTEC
Smash Champion
Definitely using Yoshi.