T-block
B2B TST
are you thinking charizard?
edit: nvm didn't see the word "far"
yeah i'm not sure haha... squirtle armor is weird x.x
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X or Y? - PT Social
- Thread starter T-block
- Start date
are you thinking charizard?
edit: nvm didn't see the word "far"
yeah i'm not sure haha... squirtle armor is weird x.x
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Yeah that's what I wanted to test Blubo. Probably do it tomorrow.
Oh and by the way, I played against a friend's Wolf today and I realized that in the middle of YI, Squirtle can duck under the lasers. So broken. YI <3
Edit : Withdraw < water moves (u-smash d-smash waterfall ; FLUDD/Watergun = useless). Grass and fire moves are useless.
Brawl. Why.
Oh and by the way, I played against a friend's Wolf today and I realized that in the middle of YI, Squirtle can duck under the lasers. So broken. YI <3
Edit : Withdraw < water moves (u-smash d-smash waterfall ; FLUDD/Watergun = useless). Grass and fire moves are useless.
Brawl. Why.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Youngster Joey
Smash Journeyman
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does PT have a chance at getting higher on the tier list? if so how far? depending on how much potential he has i might main him
I'd think so, assuming everyone played on the same exact level as Reflex. How far? Maybe a few spots. As far as maining due to potential? Don't wait around to let others show you how much potential he has. Play PT yourself and push the character past his limits. You set the bar. Then you can see if he's worth maining or not.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Yes, PT can definitely be higher on the tier list. His matchups aren't that bad, he has a top player (Reflex) and imo, he has some pretty good potential. Some parts of his gameplay haven't been fully explored. I can develop later if you want but I'm on my phone right now.
Unless we figure out how to embrace camping with our useful tools, no. Matchups get much worse if players just decide to move backward during matches, which neuters all three Pokémon pretty badly, fatigue or not.
Truth be told, this game is just awful for characters that need precision to excel. PT is one of those characters, especially when you consider the trouble of fatigue.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
What do you mean by camping? Things like Falco camping with lasers, aircamping (MK/Wario mostly) or pure stalling/planking (MK)?
Not moving toward the opponent...? Trying to time people out? That includes a lot of things--Probably aircamping with Squirtle, spamming pivot grab with Ivysaur, Flamethrower with Charizard, and maybe ledgecamping with Squirtle and Charizard (they're alright at it). We're good at damaging people when they come to us.
Also, I am a Negative Nancy.
Also, I am a Negative Nancy.
PT minus fatigue seems like a rounded character. Unfortunately, High tiers have broken traits that let them compete. That's how I see Brawl; low tiers are bad, some mid and borderline tiers are good like characters should be but high tiers and more-so top tiers are broken. Which makes anything less than broken not competitively viable. Most characters aren't bad. *shrug*
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Oh okay you include all of this when you say "camping".
I totally agree ; we can't do anything against planking (mostly vs MK). So MK is going to plank until Squirtle is fatigued.
However, in my opinion, if the MK starts doing this the key is to avoid approaching him, staying at a reasonable range from him so you never get hit. Keep your watergun ready to kill him if he makes a mistake.
If you don't do anything, it's going to take 2 minutes before you're fatigued, so the MK needs a ton of ledgegrabs. Just let him approach, if he doesn't, he's probably going to loose because of the ledgegrab limit. That's to say, if a MK decides to plank, if you don't give him your *** and go offstage, it's not that bad since it forces him to approach for the rest of the match. As PT, you should just try to run the clock after this.
So yeah, if you don't react in a silly way (like I used to do), planking is not as terrible as I'd originally thought. Obviously, the MK won't try to fatigue Ivysaur and Charizard because it will help you to time them out, so it's a big no.
Camping in general definitely annoys us but Squirtle is okay at approaching, he has many options and is really small. If you manage to have a stock lead with Squirtle, you can - against most characters - just wait for them to approach and rack up damage with Grabs & Juggles, you have some awesome combos when the opponent is at low % and Squirtle is fatigued. You can avoid almost all projectiles (the only one that comes to my mind and can still hit you is Pit's arrows) really easily between crouch, shield, spotdodge, jump or even rolls (all of these options are good for Squirtle), so forcing an approach should not be difficult. Thus, you can play a very safe style using your very good mobility to rack up as much damage as you can while avoiding killmoves.
It's also worth noting that if you're fatigued, it's better if you last longer (I'm not talking about the damage you can rack up if you last longer, but only about the timer).
I'll give you a random example. PT (you start with Squirtle) vs a campy Falco. You take his first stock, and then camp him (crouch beats his lasers) and rack up damage when he approaches (little by little). He kills your Squirtle after 3 min. 30 The timer is 8 min. so there are 4 min. 30 left. You try to maintain the lead with Ivysaur/Charizard (you should switch quickly to Charizard). You stock tank with Charizard even though you're forced to approach (unlike Squirtle, he can't reliably avoid lasers). You kill him and rack up a bit of damage, then he kills you while there is 2 min. left on the timer. You have a fresh Squirtle with a small lead, and the time is starting to threaten the Falco. He's forced to approach you since you can crouch. Your Squirtle will only be fatigued for the last 30 seconds or so : it'll be really hard for him to regain the lead. If you camped a minute less during the first stock, you would have been forced to play 1 min. 30 with a fatigued Squirtle, making the end of the match significantly easier for the Falco since he would have been more likely to regain the lead by trading hits etc...
Yeah I know it's not clear at all but hopefully you get the point.
T-Block's thread about the psychological stuff is also interesting to read when talking about camping (iirc).
On the other hand, the other 2 Pokémon definitely have a significantly harder time dealing with all kinds of camping (also they're probably better than Squirtle to combat planking).
In a nutshell, dealing with camping is definitely a tough part when playing as PT, but I feel like it's totally possible to combat it. I'm really optimistic about PT ; he has some pretty good potential.
I totally agree ; we can't do anything against planking (mostly vs MK). So MK is going to plank until Squirtle is fatigued.
However, in my opinion, if the MK starts doing this the key is to avoid approaching him, staying at a reasonable range from him so you never get hit. Keep your watergun ready to kill him if he makes a mistake.
If you don't do anything, it's going to take 2 minutes before you're fatigued, so the MK needs a ton of ledgegrabs. Just let him approach, if he doesn't, he's probably going to loose because of the ledgegrab limit. That's to say, if a MK decides to plank, if you don't give him your *** and go offstage, it's not that bad since it forces him to approach for the rest of the match. As PT, you should just try to run the clock after this.
So yeah, if you don't react in a silly way (like I used to do), planking is not as terrible as I'd originally thought. Obviously, the MK won't try to fatigue Ivysaur and Charizard because it will help you to time them out, so it's a big no.
Camping in general definitely annoys us but Squirtle is okay at approaching, he has many options and is really small. If you manage to have a stock lead with Squirtle, you can - against most characters - just wait for them to approach and rack up damage with Grabs & Juggles, you have some awesome combos when the opponent is at low % and Squirtle is fatigued. You can avoid almost all projectiles (the only one that comes to my mind and can still hit you is Pit's arrows) really easily between crouch, shield, spotdodge, jump or even rolls (all of these options are good for Squirtle), so forcing an approach should not be difficult. Thus, you can play a very safe style using your very good mobility to rack up as much damage as you can while avoiding killmoves.
It's also worth noting that if you're fatigued, it's better if you last longer (I'm not talking about the damage you can rack up if you last longer, but only about the timer).
I'll give you a random example. PT (you start with Squirtle) vs a campy Falco. You take his first stock, and then camp him (crouch beats his lasers) and rack up damage when he approaches (little by little). He kills your Squirtle after 3 min. 30 The timer is 8 min. so there are 4 min. 30 left. You try to maintain the lead with Ivysaur/Charizard (you should switch quickly to Charizard). You stock tank with Charizard even though you're forced to approach (unlike Squirtle, he can't reliably avoid lasers). You kill him and rack up a bit of damage, then he kills you while there is 2 min. left on the timer. You have a fresh Squirtle with a small lead, and the time is starting to threaten the Falco. He's forced to approach you since you can crouch. Your Squirtle will only be fatigued for the last 30 seconds or so : it'll be really hard for him to regain the lead. If you camped a minute less during the first stock, you would have been forced to play 1 min. 30 with a fatigued Squirtle, making the end of the match significantly easier for the Falco since he would have been more likely to regain the lead by trading hits etc...
Yeah I know it's not clear at all but hopefully you get the point.
T-Block's thread about the psychological stuff is also interesting to read when talking about camping (iirc).
On the other hand, the other 2 Pokémon definitely have a significantly harder time dealing with all kinds of camping (also they're probably better than Squirtle to combat planking).
In a nutshell, dealing with camping is definitely a tough part when playing as PT, but I feel like it's totally possible to combat it. I'm really optimistic about PT ; he has some pretty good potential.
^But if the campy/planky opponent gets the lead you're in trouble :[ . Fatigue is a big problem; even if Squirt ducks lasers he gets fatigued and Falco is not penalized at all.
Any range attack can technically out camp a character without a range attack unless the range character is behind.
Any range attack can technically out camp a character without a range attack unless the range character is behind.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Yep, but as I said, Squirtle is quite good at approaching, so it's up to you to gain the lead. You'll probably take some % during the process, but once you're in, you can start ******.
Squirtle is good if you want to be agressive (be careful, agressive =/= unsafe), this is how he's meant to be played because of the stamina mechanics.
Of course if the opponent doesn't approach (and he won't) it's a pain to get in, but it's pretty much this for every character that doesn't have a good projectile, right?
I said, only duck under lasers when you're already fatigued. You can play a very defensive game when you have the lead.
Squirtle is good if you want to be agressive (be careful, agressive =/= unsafe), this is how he's meant to be played because of the stamina mechanics.
Of course if the opponent doesn't approach (and he won't) it's a pain to get in, but it's pretty much this for every character that doesn't have a good projectile, right?
I said, only duck under lasers when you're already fatigued. You can play a very defensive game when you have the lead.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
I used to think like you, Bomber, but man, we're PT players, we gotta use every option we have, whether the opponent likes it or not. Your Squirtle is up against a Sopo and you think you can stay focused and maintain a good spacing? He throws Ice Blocks at you? Refresh your moves. If you feel like it's the best option, don't approach and time him out. Don't be ashamed.
But now even as MK, I always go for the timer if it's the best option. People don't want to ban him, so I don't care. I'm pro-ban anyway.
Oh and as a TL mainer, you should be used to time outs. :D
But now even as MK, I always go for the timer if it's the best option. People don't want to ban him, so I don't care. I'm pro-ban anyway.
Oh and as a TL mainer, you should be used to time outs. :D
As a TL main, my TL is trash. lol. I don't know why I try. Part of me feels like I made a small break through with how I need to play as of recent, but idk. I'll see at my next tournament. I'm just gong to throw all my characters at my next tournament and hope for the best.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
No, don't use all your characters. Just play with your main (and your second if needed, but you need to play seriously with it, I guess in your case it's PT?), even you get *****, that's how you gain experience. You also seem to need a bit more of self-confidence, right?
Don't say your TL is trash and be less defeatist. If you think your playstyle is bad, rethink it. Define the reasons of why it is bad, and what you can do to improve it. Get rid of your bad habits.
Work on it in friendlies if you have the possibility, or simply in training mode if your problems come from execution or technical errors. CPU can also work if you have a precise goal (that's an example, but if you have a roll habit when you're pressured, force yourself not to roll when in this situation). If you think the pressure makes you have bad habits (mostly roll/spotdodge, but also shield and other things), you have to feel pressured while training : for instance, you can use a handicap (like 150%) so you don't want to be killed by the CPU so you're kind of pressured. I don't know, you can also set a goal, like not taking more than 50% (or less, or more, you can adapt), so when you're at like 40%, you're pressured since you don't want to be hit. If you roll, that's because you're in a bad situation and don't want to get hit, so if you create a situation where you don't want to be hit, I guess it could work. You can find a solution that works for you by yourself. I recommand that you don't always use lv9 CPUs since they have a terrible airdodge habit.
Wi-fi, with a good connection and if you play to improve and not to win, is also good.
I just throw in random ideas, but if you have a problem, you CAN fix it if you WANT it and take the time to do so.
I'd gladly help you to improve, but there are 2 problems :
- I'm not a really good player so I can't help you as much as I want to. I'd say I'm a decent player though.
- I can't see you and talk with you IRL.
If you want, I'll be glad to help you if you have any recent video, or via Skype.
Don't say your TL is trash and be less defeatist. If you think your playstyle is bad, rethink it. Define the reasons of why it is bad, and what you can do to improve it. Get rid of your bad habits.
Work on it in friendlies if you have the possibility, or simply in training mode if your problems come from execution or technical errors. CPU can also work if you have a precise goal (that's an example, but if you have a roll habit when you're pressured, force yourself not to roll when in this situation). If you think the pressure makes you have bad habits (mostly roll/spotdodge, but also shield and other things), you have to feel pressured while training : for instance, you can use a handicap (like 150%) so you don't want to be killed by the CPU so you're kind of pressured. I don't know, you can also set a goal, like not taking more than 50% (or less, or more, you can adapt), so when you're at like 40%, you're pressured since you don't want to be hit. If you roll, that's because you're in a bad situation and don't want to get hit, so if you create a situation where you don't want to be hit, I guess it could work. You can find a solution that works for you by yourself. I recommand that you don't always use lv9 CPUs since they have a terrible airdodge habit.
Wi-fi, with a good connection and if you play to improve and not to win, is also good.
I just throw in random ideas, but if you have a problem, you CAN fix it if you WANT it and take the time to do so.
I'd gladly help you to improve, but there are 2 problems :
- I'm not a really good player so I can't help you as much as I want to. I'd say I'm a decent player though.
- I can't see you and talk with you IRL.
If you want, I'll be glad to help you if you have any recent video, or via Skype.
Find me on skype. outcast_shadow. I'm on skype everyday almost all day. If you ever want to wifi or just chat about whatever, hit me up. The same offer goes for anyone here.
As I've said many times before, I do lack a lot of confidence, but I'm the person who gains confidence from playing other people which is a privilege where I'm from. To be honest, Brawl isn't that fun to me as much anymore, but there's a part of me that still holds on in hopes I'll one day have a breakthrough and I'll start climbing up the mountain again. However, the group I play with plays 64 and I get to play a game that let's me play in my natural element which is basically being a bomb spamming, 'rang throwing champ with Link. So needless to say I get more 64 practice with anything and I'm enjoying playing the game gave me my roots (my name, my playstyle, etc).
Youngster Joey
Smash Journeyman
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i recently got stuck in a thunder shock lock on fd with ivy. i would tether and hang when a thundershock came and hit me and i'd have to keep grabbing the ledge.. anyway around it? or am i just doing it wrong? it was my first encounter with it and i hated it
T-block
B2B TST
jump from the ledge and air dodge of necessary
drop from the ledge, double jump, air dodge back onto the stage
roll onto the stage
can all work, depending on the situation
drop from the ledge, double jump, air dodge back onto the stage
roll onto the stage
can all work, depending on the situation
CoonTail
Smash Lord
Hey everybody :D
CoonTail
Smash Lord
What have I missed, I know it has been quite some time!
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Heyyyy CoonTail I was wondering where you had been! :D
Bubbaking told me you were still pretty active.
Bubbaking told me you were still pretty active.
CoonTail
Smash Lord
Ehhh I can't lie I kinda name-searched since Vinnie got me to start playing again last night and I saw that you were asking about me, so I came back.
Lol I take this game to seriously or did and kinda pulled the "I quit" BS, but I just retreated into Borderlands 2 for a while.
I'm back now and I gotta say I'm getting real hyped to commentate APEX.
Lol I take this game to seriously or did and kinda pulled the "I quit" BS, but I just retreated into Borderlands 2 for a while.
I'm back now and I gotta say I'm getting real hyped to commentate APEX.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Haha okay, anyway, I'm really glad to see that you're back.
Youngster Joey
Smash Journeyman
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okay ive been playing a lot of PT lately and my squirtle sucks. im not gonna defend it. my ivy seems good since he makes unexpected comebacks and charizard is almost like a main now. how do i use squirtle the right way? its definitely more than just fast since i try to be fast
Youngster Joey
Smash Journeyman
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i need to get good with his grab game then! i know his tilt and jab game tho. its just hard for me to transition from charizard to squirtle since its a pretty big jump imo.
He also has some nifty grab shenanigans against some characters like fox, I don't have the full list yet because I haven't managed to try it on every character yet. If you play any Fox players just grab them, hit A until you release them, them immediately jab twice. This will cause them to trip, then grab and repeat. It works a little bit on Wario and I think the other space animals too. Worse case scenario, they shield or spot dodge one of your jabs, but that's all they can do. All you have to do is be able to react quick enough to where if they throw up their shield or spot dodge after that first jab, you just jab cancel into another grab. Trust me, it's fun and your opponent will be furious. lol.
Myollnir
Smash Ace
Yeah we talked a bit about that yesterday on skype. I tried holding shield with my other controller and at low and high percents I was able to shield it with wolf. I also think that the trip rate is higher at some percents.
Also, if you jab an opponent near the edge of YI, it'll force a hard landingon the slope. I think it gives us some frame advantage but I think it's useless except the fact that it guarantees the rest of the combo.
Also, if you jab an opponent near the edge of YI, it'll force a hard landingon the slope. I think it gives us some frame advantage but I think it's useless except the fact that it guarantees the rest of the combo.
It's not 100% useless. Even if a character can get out of it, if the person doesn't know how to or can't get the timing down to escape it, then it's useful. In a more realistic setting, the tournaments we go to will be filled who will fall victim to this.