Meta Wry Mustache Man: Dominating Strategies Discussion

[C4-]

I'm starting to play very lame with wario. Like dmg did just run away the entire time build up waft get stock lead play for time lol. It's so good.

Also I hope they buff his up air so it can ko at like 120 and give him either faster air mobility or his dair more priority.

i completely agree , i feel like his up air needs to be buffed! and yes faster mobility and dair priority would be amazing aswell

 

[Rakurai]

The uair knockback nerf was really not justified when considering how bad the end lag is, and the fact that some characters with extremely spammable uairs have substantially more KO power on them (Lol Diddy).

 

[Spinosaurus]

UAir comes out fast and does 13% with barely any landing lag. I think little extra kill power would be fine, though, but it's really a juggling move here.

 

[GanonDuck]

Is it just me or is Warios Utilt just ridiculously good? Ive been stuffing so many air approches with it and flat out beaten out other moves with it. The entire hitbox seems really disjointed and lasting.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

His hands are invincible for the entirety of the attack, and it lasts from what appears to be something like Frames 12-23.

I used it in Brawl and PM to catch landings. It would get you great frame advantage if you hit with the late sourspot.

 

[GanonDuck]

I didn't use Warios tilts that much in brawl because they all seemed so bad. But smash 4 Warios tilts i think are really, really good.
His Ftilt is fantastic for spacing and potentional KOs at higher %, his Dtilt is good for pressure and mix ups and his Utilt is just super good for stuffing everything. I gotta say that i really like Warios feel and gameplay style in smash 4 compared to brawl, he feels way more like a brawler type then a flying pixie type.

 

[Vengeance_NS]

His hands are invincible for the entirety of the attack, and it lasts from what appears to be something like Frames 12-23.

I used it in Brawl and PM to catch landings. It would get you great frame advantage if you hit with the late sourspot.

Reflex what do u think of warios place on the Japanese tier list at top 10?? I don't agree with it I feel he could be a top 15-20 character. How do u feel he does against the top characters fox shiek yoshi rosalina sonic and Diddy??

 

[toadster101]

His decreased air mobility hurts a lot, but man, the Wario Waft is amazing in this game. I've had so many comebacks just by getting an early KO at around 50%. And good lord, that buffed Chomp is so sexy.

 

[GanonDuck]

I really don't think that the air mobility nerf is that bad, he still got a pretty decent mobility, and he got range on most of his attacks now. He got a pretty good ground game aswell now tbh.

 

[Rakurai]

I feel like being able to land those wafts is essential to his game, because all of his other KO moves aren't nearly as easy to connect with. The half waft still is one of the fastest KO moves in the game, so it's probably worth dumping it on someone if they're 80%+ and you know it'll hit. I personally only go for the fully charged one if I've got a huge percent lead and think I can use it to end a second stock quickly, or if I'm seriously behind and need to make a come back.

I guess Quick Waft helps in that regard, because while weaker, you can afford to miss with it due to it being ready four times as often, and the fully charged version seems to be as quick as a half waft.

 

[Goodstyle_4]

Recently discovered that the Flower Waft has more range than the other versions... by a lot. Like, at least more than double. Considering it charges faster and it kills early when edgeguarding I'd say that its worth mentioning.

 

[Bigkirbyfan14]

the wario waft is very statregic in air you can recover and launch 'em of the stage!

 

[Rakurai]

Recently discovered that the Flower Waft has more range than the other versions... by a lot. Like, at least more than double. Considering it charges faster and it kills early when edgeguarding I'd say that its worth mentioning.

Knowing it has something going for it other then the faster charge time and flower planting makes it seem not quite as useless as I initially thought it was.

Does the hitbox extend out to where the gas cloud reaches or something?

 

[Goodstyle_4]

Knowing it has something going for it other then the faster charge time and flower planting makes it seem not quite as useless as I initially thought it was.

Does the hitbox extend out to where the gas cloud reaches or something?

Ya, maybe even more too. It also extends in that range in a 360 degree angle, so hitting people above you is like hitting them with an invisible force.

 

[Strawhat64]

What I learn at the tournament yesterday....

never EVER take your bike out if you play against Villager. Your never going get it back. Camping ass mother fffff.

 

[Rakurai]

Ya, maybe even more too. It also extends in that range in a 360 degree angle, so hitting people above you is like hitting them with an invisible force.

From testing it, it stretches a distance equal to a little over Wario's body width in every direction at a full charge.

It's definitely a lot easier to connect with, but it's even weaker then the Quick Waft, and also seems to launch at a higher angle, which isn't as useful for gimping.

 

[rekt]

Did my best trying to find an answer to this question...: What exactly ARE the mechanics of Wario bike?

 

[Rakurai]

One important thing to know about that I see a lot of Wario players seemingly being unaware of is that if you drive the bike off the stage after having taken it out on the ground, you can jump off, then summon a second bike, as the restriction is that you can only take out one bike per instance of being airborne before needing to touch the ground.

Aside from that, there's not much important to know other then that you can end wheelies early by pressing down on the control stick, and that doing a wheelie immediately after ramming someone adds on an extra 8% damage.

 

[rekt]

One important thing to know about that I see a lot of Wario players seemingly being unaware of is that if you drive the bike off the stage after having taken it out on the ground, you can jump off, then summon a second bike, as the restriction is that you can only take out one bike per instance of being airborne before needing to touch the ground.

Aside from that, there's not much important to know other then that you can end wheelies early by pressing down on the control stick, and that doing a wheelie immediately after ramming someone adds on an extra 8% damage.

Ahh, okay! Thank you! That's more simple than I thought it was!

 

[WarioWaft]

I've main Wario'd since the beginning of SBB4, used him in my top 3 during Brawl but he's much more improved IMO.

As for bike mechanics, these are just some things i've noticed:
If you drive directly at someone while on the bike and connect there's more damage done.
If you drive the bike and kamikaze it (jump off midway travel), it doesn't do as much damage but can still hit the opponent.
If you drive off the map and hit someone in air it works.
If you kamikaze the bike and jump off before leaving the map, and the bike crosses paths with an enemy it will not hit them unless they are over the imaginary vertical edge line.
Doing a quick 180 on the bike when hitting someone inflicts a very strong horizontal attack. Whereas driving direct straight on into someone will send them flying northeast/west, a 180 is more linear on the horizontal plane if connects.

If you kamikaze the bike at a medium-slow speed and connect, the bike will chain attack your opponent about 3 times. If you go full speed it's one big hit then falls off the map.

If you pop a wheelie from under someone, it will pop them into the air.
If you pop a wheelie and slam the bike on someone, and it connects at 80% or more it's most likely an automatic KO or can damage someone's shield outright if they're shielding from anticipating the bike.

Wario while on the bike can cancel/overpower a good majority of smash moves. Wario kamikaze'ing the bike can still stop some moves allowing you to do an aerial attack when coming down.

If Wario is knocked off the stage, his bike is one of the best horizontal recoveries and because he moves so fast it takes a perfect player to meteor smash you.

Wario can use one jump while off the map, use the bike, then jump off the bike for an extra jump plus his up b.

One of my favorite attacks with Wario is mid-air biking hitting my opponent, their body trails my bike after I jump off by a foot and I WarioWaft the bike causing a huge explosion and auto-KO in mid-air.

Destroying the bike: If Wario destroys the bike himself with any attack the bike will explode but he won't receive damage. If your opponent destroys the bike with an attack, you both get hurt. If Wario attacks the stationary bike and it explodes next to an opponent, the explosion will cause a huge amount damage and knockout distance. Not as great as an item Bob-omb but as effective.

Eating the bike whole recovers 1%, and once the bike is destroyed the other parts don't stay long enough to make it worth your while.

 

[rekt]

I've main Wario'd since the beginning of SBB4, used him in my top 3 during Brawl but he's much more improved IMO.

As for bike mechanics, these are just some things i've noticed:
If you drive directly at someone while on the bike and connect there's more damage done.
If you drive the bike and kamikaze it (jump off midway travel), it doesn't do as much damage but can still hit the opponent.
If you drive off the map and hit someone in air it works.
If you kamikaze the bike and jump off before leaving the map, and the bike crosses paths with an enemy it will not hit them unless they are over the imaginary vertical edge line.
Doing a quick 180 on the bike when hitting someone inflicts a very strong horizontal attack. Whereas driving direct straight on into someone will send them flying northeast/west, a 180 is more linear on the horizontal plane if connects.

If you kamikaze the bike at a medium-slow speed and connect, the bike will chain attack your opponent about 3 times. If you go full speed it's one big hit then falls off the map.

If you pop a wheelie from under someone, it will pop them into the air.
If you pop a wheelie and slam the bike on someone, and it connects at 80% or more it's most likely an automatic KO or can damage someone's shield outright if they're shielding from anticipating the bike.

Wario while on the bike can cancel/overpower a good majority of smash moves. Wario kamikaze'ing the bike can still stop some moves allowing you to do an aerial attack when coming down.

If Wario is knocked off the stage, his bike is one of the best horizontal recoveries and because he moves so fast it takes a perfect player to meteor smash you.

Wario can use one jump while off the map, use the bike, then jump off the bike for an extra jump plus his up b.

One of my favorite attacks with Wario is mid-air biking hitting my opponent, their body trails my bike after I jump off by a foot and I WarioWaft the bike causing a huge explosion and auto-KO in mid-air.

Destroying the bike: If Wario destroys the bike himself with any attack the bike will explode but he won't receive damage. If your opponent destroys the bike with an attack, you both get hurt. If Wario attacks the stationary bike and it explodes next to an opponent, the explosion will cause a huge amount damage and knockout distance. Not as great as an item Bob-omb but as effective.

Eating the bike whole recovers 1%, and once the bike is destroyed the other parts don't stay long enough to make it worth your while.

This is great, thanks for all the good info!

Anyone interested in getting a compendium going in the OP? Just copy and pasting from the thread to save others time of searching. Just an idea! :]

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It's not really an ideal approach, but since your bike gains a new hitbox when you do a wheelie, you can drive into someone and immediately wheelie after you touch them for two hits. This can frame trap attempted punishes.

Sourspot N-Air combos into Waft at lots of relevant percents.

 

[warionumbah2]

It's not really an ideal approach, but since your bike gains a new hitbox when you do a wheelie, you can drive into someone and immediately wheelie after you touch them for two hits. This can frame trap attempted punishes.

Sourspot N-Air combos into Waft at lots of relevant percents.

Excellent.

 

[rabbit.soaring]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but how many stages of waft are there? I hear people say the half charged waft is best for killing, but I don't know how far waft has progressed unless it's fully charged and Wario starts flashing yellow.

 

[WarioWaft]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but how many stages of waft are there? I hear people say the half charged waft is best for killing, but I don't know how far waft has progressed unless it's fully charged and Wario starts flashing yellow.

There's the little fart which only knocks down an opponent for a split second.

There's the half fart which is effective but there's not much air time.

Then the fully charged one (when he's flashing), gives you a bunch of air time plus a decent sized blast radius. You only have to be within a certain range next to someone for it to work. And because he gets such hang time, if you hit someone directly from under in the air with it, even at like 60% it should in theory sky KO most if not all characters. It depends on how much of the gap is between the initial fart and the distance between contact. If there's a huge gap and you hit them on the tail end you might be able to KO them. But if you leave little space in between it should definitely KO them.

 

[rabbit.soaring]

There's the little fart which only knocks down an opponent for a split second.

There's the half fart which is effective but there's not much air time.

Then the fully charged one (when he's flashing), gives you a bunch of air time plus a decent sized blast radius. You only have to be within a certain range next to someone for it to work. And because he gets such hang time, if you hit someone directly from under in the air with it, even at like 60% it should in theory sky KO most if not all characters. It depends on how much of the gap is between the initial fart and the distance between contact. If there's a huge gap and you hit them on the tail end you might be able to KO them. But if you leave little space in between it should definitely KO them.

OK, that makes sense. Thanks.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but how many stages of waft are there? I hear people say the half charged waft is best for killing, but I don't know how far waft has progressed unless it's fully charged and Wario starts flashing yellow.

Four stages.

One is completely uncharged where you do no damage and trip people.

Two is a weak-ish hitbox that doesn't give you any leverage.

Three is half-to-almost-charged. Still goes higher/hits harder based on how close it is to maximum Waft.

Four is the fully-charged, fly upwards for days bit.

Waft still seems to charge from zero to max in about one minute and fifty-one seconds.

 

[Rakurai]

The waft can be used for KOs once 55 seconds have passed.

The half waft's power ranges from weaker then an uncharged forward smash to nearly as strong as the fully charged version depending on how long you wait, but with the significant advantage of having almost no start-up lag. The fully charged waft is still extremely fast for how powerful it is, but the number of things you can punish with it is much lower.

 

[C4-]

I was told today that tilting your bike back while in the air gives you increased jump hieght and tilting it foward reduces jump height. Does anyone know if this is true ? i tested it a bit and i think that it is true but i can 100% tell if there is a difference or not.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It doesn't increase or reduce distance; it merely redirects it. Leaning back makes your jump less horizontal and more vertical. Moving forward makes your jump more horizontal and less vertical.

If the reduced horizontal distance doesn't matter, then, yes, it's a lot like an increased jump height when you lean back. It was like this in Brawl, too.

 

[C4-]

Has anyone tested edge guarding by holding onto your bike walking off the edge then using the falling bike as a way to extend the length of your hitbox? I just thought about it and it seems like a fully charged fart onto the bike could work wonders for edge guarding since the hit box would last so long , I haven't tested it so I'm not sure if it's effective or not. Anyone mess around with that before?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

That's pretty clever, actually. I didn't think it would lengthen the hitbox for that long, but the fully-charged Waft stays in place for what appears to be about TWENTY extra frames (as opposed to the normal two). N-Air sweetspot lasts for six frames instead of one, U-Air lasts for 11 frames instead of 2, and mostly-charged Waft lasts for 16 frames instead of 4. Good looking out.

 

[C4-]

Awesome , thanks for the data and glad you got somethig out of it

 

[Rakurai]

I noticed that while the bite is considered a grab for the purposes of the one second grab invulnerability, it doesn't actually trigger the invulnerability.

Meaning double Wario teams can still do infinite bite chaingrabs, hilariously.

On another, more relevant note, it also means you can't gimp characters with bad recoveries at low percents by throwing them off-stage then immediately intercepting them with a bite to drag them too low for a recovery while still being able to make it back yourself.

 

[SanAntonioSmasher]

Is there a general consensus on good vs bad bike tactics/maneuvers in competitive play? Are there any bike maneuvers you NEVER use?

When I first started playing wario, I would use all the bike maneuvers to try to keep opponent off guard, such as 2 hit combo, pivoting before reaching opponent, slowing down/speed up, etc.

Recently, I have switched to just driving it full speed and jumping off immediately in most cases. I notice I have been doing much better, and really like the mobility this approach provides. Using the bike as a projectile is hard to punish for many characters, and usually either helps set up an attack, or just delays action which is helpful to prolong game for waft charge up. One down side is the damage is much lower if you already jumped off the bike. So, I have been staying on if it seems like opponent is not ready for it, then I jump right after it connects. If they look ready, I jump off before I get to them.

I have been trying to add in the 2 hit combo, but I don't like how it delays jumping off, and often puts me in a more precarious position even if it connects. You also have to wait to see if the bike connects first, which also can be problematic. Is the extra damage even worth it?

 

[WarioWaft]

Is there a general consensus on good vs bad bike tactics/maneuvers in competitive play? Are there any bike maneuvers you NEVER use?

When I first started playing wario, I would use all the bike maneuvers to try to keep opponent off guard, such as 2 hit combo, pivoting before reaching opponent, slowing down/speed up, etc.

Recently, I have switched to just driving it full speed and jumping off immediately in most cases. I notice I have been doing much better, and really like the mobility this approach provides. Using the bike as a projectile is hard to punish for many characters, and usually either helps set up an attack, or just delays action which is helpful to prolong game for waft charge up. One down side is the damage is much lower if you already jumped off the bike. So, I have been staying on if it seems like opponent is not ready for it, then I jump right after it connects. If they look ready, I jump off before I get to them.

I have been trying to add in the 2 hit combo, but I don't like how it delays jumping off, and often puts me in a more precarious position even if it connects. You also have to wait to see if the bike connects first, which also can be problematic. Is the extra damage even worth it?

That's always been my approach. A really good player will see the wheelie coming and avoid it leaving you screwed because of the delay for wario to put the bike back down and jump off.

One of the things I do is if an opponent starts anticipating my bike jumps to where they jump and fair/nair in the middle where I Jump, I pause while on the bike and either burst through or let the bike roll it really slow (it will still hit them and cause damage). You kind of have to read the situation and what your opponent is doing.I only stay on the bike if I know it's a guaranteed hit, otherwise I jump off and kamikaze the bike in there and work my way in from there.

Again you have to read it. If an opponent gets shield happy waiting for your bike jump off and attack front he air/chomp. If he gets jump happy, sometimes it's better to ride under them first and jump off after you pass them because if they jump when you arrive they can hit you off the bike.

 

[DtJ S2n]

The two hit combo (ramming into wheelie) is a good punish or landing trap if you're close by and have the time. 19% is hard to argue with. I agree not to try to wheelie or ram into somebody who's even halfway aware of what's going on if you're in neutral. Jumping off the bike to use as a projectile is good but you really have to mind your space, good players will preemptively jump and will hit you when you jump off or if you stay on either way. Only use it when you know they can't get in that area in that fast.

If you want to mix it up and ram the opponent, something much safer and much more difficult for the opponent to play around is to use the bike in conjunction with platforms. This really places the priority of the bike where you want it and can lead to you getting much safer hits on shield. There's lots of odd ways to start the bike in mid-air and then have it magnet to a platform to start up a wheelie, gain speed, or change angle unexpectedly. There may be some odd things where the bike suddenly regains a grounded hitbox when it lands, and then you can instantly pop the wheelie on landing, so you may be able to do legitimately safe bike landings on shield.

Requesting tips vs Sheik and Pikachu. This is the only barrier stopping me from fully committing to Wario . I know we have a match-up thread but it's pretty ugly and outdated.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wario's sourspot nair has extremely fraudulent knockback that can link directly into uair or fart. It's very hard to deliberately hit with it though because after the initial hit the hitbox of nair disappears for about 10 frames. I'm pretty sure it has to be a specific part of the sourspot hitbox, like the weakest part of it [it pops up opponents almost directly above you but does very little knockback]. Does anybody know about this? Any ideas on how to make this work consistently? I'm very interested in the potential guaranteed fart KO setup from a sourspot nair.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The sweetspot exists for a frame (Frame 4), there's a 9-frame empty space, and then his body is the sourspot you're looking for. If you fall on the opponent, you can get it fairly easily; the problem is preventing it from being telegraphed.

 

[C4-]

Wario's sourspot nair has extremely fraudulent knockback that can link directly into uair or fart. It's very hard to deliberately hit with it though because after the initial hit the hitbox of nair disappears for about 10 frames. I'm pretty sure it has to be a specific part of the sourspot hitbox, like the weakest part of it [it pops up opponents almost directly above you but does very little knockback]. Does anybody know about this? Any ideas on how to make this work consistently? I'm very interested in the potential guaranteed fart KO setup from a sourspot nair.

like reflex said, the sourspot is near the end of nair, i actually have yet to connect a fart after the sourspot of nair, does anyone know if it is guaranteed or if it works well? it seems like up air is guaranteed though. I find hitting the sourspot to be actually very easy, if you and your oppenent are sitting in shield right next to each other a retreating near OoS works wonders if they roll towards you they will get hit by the sourspot, if they choose not to roll towards you it is still somewhat safe, just dont do it to much because with a good read it can be punished, mix it up with some nair OoS onto there shield, alot of people stop shielding after the intial hit.