Wreck-It Bowser

[Deleted member 189823]

I would've expect something bigger for Zigsta's goodbye...I mean, we really expected that MM against Dabuz. Now it's just...

 

[MrEh]

 

[Cassius.]

great so now i have even more incentive to play brawl again.

im rising like BREAD *****

 

[Ken Neth]

Does this mean ZZ is number one bowser now?

 

[Cassius.]

the threshold for being a #1 bowser is verrrrrrry low at this point, even lower than before probably.

and honestly if kingkong actually is returning to brawl then it's not even close/a question that he's #1 again lol

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Limit please get back to Brawl soon. KingKong should do a fine job if he gets back again.

How does KingKong get so far again? I'd like to know how he does so well. x3

 

[Cassius.]

he just knows what to do with bowser

he doesnt push his luck, turtles the **** out of everything.

i haven't seen a recent video of him so i can't be specific but i doubt much has changed. he's just losing to ally and holy, anyway.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I'd really like to see recent videos of him. The most recent was back in 2010 or something.
Also was Vex the reason he was the best Bowser of 08-09'?

 

[Cassius.]

he was a product of the bowser boards as a whole, it was like me vex mreh jay sliq flayl bowser king ixis phiddlesticks killerjawz and hobobloke. and vex was the best bowser of 08-09. david didn't start playing bowser until like mid 09 when i found him on aib. he told me he was tired of using peach and wanted to use bowser and i pointed him to smashboards

and then we collectively whipped his *** into shape.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

...David is KingKong, right?

 

[Cassius.]

yeah. i keep alternating haha we somehow ended on a first name basis. i forgot how it happened

edit: wow i just had the ultimate throwback. we had some real dudes on the boards back in the day. the **** was serious man.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

What are you talking, I'm all serious **** here too. ): I'm just not in the U.S to help with back-up results...

 

[Uncle]

Vex was most definitely a top Bowser back then and arguably the best. I have no idea if he directly helped/supported KingKong or not, but I do know that he inspired the Bowser metagame in general. Hell, even when I watched a few of his videos back then, I felt pretty inspired.

EDIT: Nvm, Limit provided a concrete answer, lol.

As for the secret to KingKong's success, it's pretty much exactly what Limit said. KK makes the most of Bowser's tools, particularly the defensive ones. He clearly understands how to make Bowser work (as well as he can work) in this passive-aggressive metagame. It also helps that he has strong fundamentals. He's definitely got those fundamentals that separate the high-level players from the mid-level players. Those always make a difference, no matter what character you play.

As for who's the best Bowser now, KK's recent return and strong placement show us that he hasn't lost a step. He's stll da bess. Other than him, Z'z has rock-solid tourney results (PR'd with Bowser = Too good), and Limit has badass veteran status (and he'll storm tourneys again soon).

That's our top three, more or less.

 

[Cassius.]

i like how im like the old cranky bowser guy but i'm probably younger than everyone here

#17butturning18soon

but yeah, an update on my smash life.

Dustbowl 4, which is supposed to be a big upstate smash event, is this coming Saturday. I have not touched Brawl since September 15th, and probably won't until the end of this week...I'll do my best to go all Bowser, haha. I was hyped to be at Syracuse U, but the upstate Brawl scene is pretty small, at least around this area...I'll definitely make do with what I have, but when I return to the city I will be hitting some stuff up.

 

[Rizen]

A lot of people leave each forum. It's kind of sad sometimes ...
________________________________
Bowser is my first character who can't space with Bairs, it's a weird feeling.

What are Dair's uses? I have trouble with that move.

 

[Cassius.]

Bowser can't space with BAirs but that's probably my favorite aerial to kill with. I'm a monster with the surprise BAirs, haha.

You can use DAir (although stupidly) to land on your opponents. You really, and I mean this, REALLY should not be using it often (I think I saw a video of you specifically using it a bit too much). You can try and use it to create space on a player whose reflexes are not as refined as they should be, as in they'll probably get hit by it. Once hit by it, it'll use it's shockwave (?) hitbox and push them a bit further from you. A lot of bad players like to press buttons, so use that to your advantage, aka fsmash/ftilt/jab (spacing dependent, i listed them in descending order) the **** out of them if they try and challenge you.

Here's a little trick: if they do happen to get hit by DAir, just sit there and watch what they do. Honestly this is just a general tip, and is probably why KingKong gets most of his wins...Bowser is made for defense, so you really should try and test the wits of your opponent. Brawl is a game where you can afford to do that and not risk losing the whole game. Bowser benefits from knowing your opponents habits so you can absolutely decimate them in the game. That's why I think that in the hands of a great player, Bowser can actually be pushed to be even better. He doesn't have many tools/a lot to be explored..he's really only as good as you make him. I'm pretty sure we only discover one new thing a year LMAO

basically if you're playing a good player you probably shouldn't be using it.

you can try some random dair offstage (NOT FASTFALLED GOOD GOD)..it has semi-spike properties like Kirby's DAir but only in the center I think.

to be completely serious i do get excited when new people come to the bowser boards and say that they want to learn bowser. i'm excited because I honestly watch EVERY new Bowser closely because I always want to know who will be the next one, but I also feel bad because it never happens. No one wants to get stuck in the trap. It's bad. Even I have moments where I'm just like if I used Falco totally I would be perfectly fine.

We all have that moment where we KNOW exactly what to do, but can't because Bowser is Bowser.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Well, I'm actually the younger Bowser in both ways as I'm turning 18 next year and am one of the newer Bowsers without being a newbie to him.
I'll be storming with Bowser next month, so be prepared, guys.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I was wondering what "mid-level" players are like, and how much better they are than me. I like to assume I am Low-Mid level player, but are there any examples of a "mid-level" player?
Going by ranks, these are my examples:

Top:

Ally

High:

MEKOS

Upper Mid:

Delta-cod (according to him, anyway x3)

Mid:

???

Low mid:

Me.

Low:

My friend

Bottom:

Me on my bad days

 

[Rizen]

Bottom:

Me on my bad days

^lol, I suck on my bad days too.

I think of mid level players as people who seem to know the character but don't make the most of them. They make dumb/repetitive choices when playing aggressive or shy away from attack chains/pressuring opportunities. They're slower and don't use the best move/tactic for each situation despite knowing their character.

High levels have to know every character and use all the legal tactics at the right time.
Low level players make obvious errors and can't defend vs high level players.
Scrubs complain about stuff like camping/juggling.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Why would anyone complain about juggling? Camping, I kind of get it. But personally, I don't mind camping if it's done well in a none-spammy way (example: Fox SHDL instead of just standing and only pressing B).

Good descriptions, by the way. By that criteria, I seem to be a Mid-Level player with Bowser.

 

[MrEh]

^^^^^
Basically what Uncle and Limit said. KK never did any fancy stuff. He just used Bowser's tools well and played solid.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

That intrigues me, honestly. I really appreciate tech skill, but a Bowser that relies less on fancy stuff and more on things that actually work...yeah, I want to see that (let's just hope he's not pure Klaw).

 

[Cassius.]

what's wrong with pure klaw? it's a good move and if you honestly know what you're doing with it then you're fine.

of course it's obviously impossible to win a match using klaw alone but i still don't understand what you have against the move lol

it's one of bowser's tools and i can guarantee you 100% that kingkong uses that move often. a solid bowser player uses klaw solidly. it's his best move, bar none, but it is by no means his only move.

 

[Rizen]

Klaw's like Wolf's Bair.

What's the deal with games and 'K' instead of 'C'. Koopa Klaw, (DK Country 2) Krock Kore, (Simpsons) The Krusty Komedy...
lol

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I have no problems with Klaw, I just like to use it moderately and avoid excess (see: "pure Klaw").
Personally I think Bowser is more about Jab Cancels and GRs. I love Jab Canceling with Bowser.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Damn, Ill miss you Zig.

@Top Bowser stuff: Remember Im not 100% Bowser myself, so even though I do have results, they arent all Bowser. I still basically Co-main Yoshi, and every tournament is different depending on who I face on which of those two I use more.

And KK is DEFINITELY better than me lol, and he IS active at the moment. Ironically enough, I have a good friend in KKs scene who likes to update me with results, and KK has been to each of the tournaments my friend has been to (hes actually new to smash tournaments so those have been his first 2). So with that, KK is def #1 without Zig, after that Id say Limit is an easy #2 if he gets active, and really Id say Uncle should be above me as well unless hes just straight up using 0 Bowser.

So imo id say top 5, assuming Limit is gonna get active again, is:
1. KingKong
2. Limit
3. Uncle/Zz
4. Uncle/Zz
5. Level 9 CPU

 

[Cassius.]

the proper name for klaw in brawl is actually flying slam. it just sounds a lot better, klaw is easier to say than flying slam/fs. makes bowser sound like a circus freak.

bowser's jab cancelling really isn't that great in my honest opinion, but i guess every bowser player has his ways.

bowser is made for defense imo, if you get a hit you shouldn't be wasting your time with jab cancels. get the grab(s) and keep it moving. of course im not saying to totally eliminate jab cancelling from bowser play, but i don't think that's what he's about. his jab and his followups aren't fast/good enough for that (this is probably why i never really liked ixis' playstyle. i never did, i think i mentioned that before a couple of years ago)

of course we could play theory and say a good player would abuse jab cancels to bait the opponent or whatever but i don't feel like going down that avenue

if i wasn't using bowser i would probably use either d3, snake or falco (assuming mk is banned)..lol

 

[Z'zgashi]

Id say our bread and butter moves to cover basically every situation would be Klaw, Jab, Grab, Fair, and Fortress. Obviously other moves have uses and should be used (ex Bair to kill, uair to punish an air dodge, fsmash on a read, etc) but those 5 imo should be our go to options in your average situation or neutral position.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

the proper name for klaw in brawl is actually flying slam. it just sounds a lot better, klaw is easier to say than flying slam/fs. makes bowser sound like a circus freak.

bowser's jab cancelling really isn't that great in my honest opinion, but i guess every bowser player has his ways.

bowser is made for defense imo, if you get a hit you shouldn't be wasting your time with jab cancels. get the grab(s) and keep it moving. of course im not saying to totally eliminate jab cancelling from bowser play, but i don't think that's what he's about. his jab and his followups aren't fast/good enough for that (this is probably why i never really liked ixis' playstyle. i never did, i think i mentioned that before a couple of years ago)

of course we could play theory and say a good player would abuse jab cancels to bait the opponent or whatever but i don't feel like going down that avenue

if i wasn't using bowser i would probably use either d3, snake or falco (assuming mk is banned)..lol

Personally I never had trouble with the speed of Bowser's jabs. And Jab can also leads to grabs, and then GRs. This is what I do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRZwybfV4LM

Id say our bread and butter moves to cover basically every situation would be Klaw, Jab, Grab, Fair, and Fortress. Obviously other moves have uses and should be used (ex Bair to kill, uair to punish an air dodge, fsmash on a read, etc) but those 5 imo should be our go to options in your average situation or neutral position.

Great. Those are most of the moves I use. Bowser's faster and less punishable.

 

[MrEh]

Damn, Ill miss you Zig.
So imo id say top 5, assuming Limit is gonna get active again, is:
1. KingKong
2. Limit
3. Uncle/Zz
4. Uncle/Zz
5. Level 9 CPU

Level 9 Bowser is probably better then me at this point. lol

 

[Uncle]

@Z'z: I also use DK or G&W on occasion, so I'm not 100% Bowser either (more like 75%), and putting us in 3rd/4th sounds about right, ha ha. Regardless, I agree that KK is in a whole tier of his own right now. The rest of us (especially Limit) are capable of rising to his level, though. Also, Swei for #5.

@Limit: I thought people called it Klaw because in Melee his SideB was called Koopa Klaw, and people were just already used to that name. I agree it sounds better too, lol.

About Bowser in general: I'd say he uses a healthy mix of turtling and rushdown, with a slant towards turtling, of course. He wants his opponent to come at him overly aggro so he can punish him hard with damaging moves. He also likes to lunge at someone who's left himself/herself open, like a shark smelling blood in the water. Jab is a useful move on offense as well as defense, and cancels should be taken advantage of often. So should the almighty Klaw, though. Hell, even Reflex once said that Bowser players should use more Klaw than they already do. As long as your opponent keeps asking for it, punish them with it!

 

[Cassius.]

@zz im also assuming and hoping that i get active but i feel like a broken record because i've explained my situation...literally for as long as i've been on the Bowser board i've been plagued by school interfering with brawl. i was once a prep school student where a brawl scene didn't exist, and now i'm a syracuse university student where the brawl scene is slowly digging its own grave.

i'll definitely devote more time to smash but the college life + lack of a legitimate college brawl scene in syracuse is a bit depressing. it's better than connecticut because i have actually played brawl matches up here, but it's still lacking.

@uncle you're right, koopa klaw was the name of his side b in melee but flying slam never stuck as a real name anyway if you think about it.

i feel like in a realistic setting most of the important characters have moves that can actually beat out jab cancels before we actually get something started. the only two jab cancels i honestly go for are jab klaw and jab jab/jab grab. i feel as though jab f/dtilt is too slow and i'd rather get extra safety in getting a grab release and THEN going for the tilts.

i definitely see where swei is coming from and i watched part of the video, you looked like a mini ixis. the only thing i question is you doing random jab cancels when your opponent wasn't near you, but aside from that it was pretty cool. was that a wifi match? i couldn't tell.

additionally, i think it's time for an avatar change...shoutouts to my man Chad for keeping the same picture for god knows how long. he's a true keeper (or as vex would say, a true wife lmao)

 

[Z'zgashi]

Oh I would def put Swei in Top 5, I was just going off the old Top 5 list's criteria of being US/Canada/Mexico only which he isnt a part of

And I know what you mean by more Klaw, that move is ridiculous (and in some MUs like Snake its like, 90% of the damage I do xD). I swear, that move could be a top 10 move in the game, its just that the rest of our kit is pretty lack luster. Kinda like Samus with Zair in a way haha.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

ill have you know my record against a lvl 9 bowser is 32-18, an astounding 64% win percentage

 

[Rizen]

I thought there was a move called Koopa Klaw

Id say our bread and butter moves to cover basically every situation would be Klaw, Jab, Grab, Fair, and Fortress. Obviously other moves have uses and should be used (ex Bair to kill, uair to punish an air dodge, fsmash on a read, etc) but those 5 imo should be our go to options in your average situation or neutral position.

About Bowser in general: I'd say he uses a healthy mix of turtling and rushdown, with a slant towards turtling, of course. He wants his opponent to come at him overly aggro so he can punish him hard with damaging moves. He also likes to lunge at someone who's left himself/herself open, like a shark smelling blood in the water. Jab is a useful move on offense as well as defense, and cancels should be taken advantage of often. So should the almighty Klaw, though.

^this is all helpful advice. I was playing too much with bad moves like Dair.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I don't know, mang. Am I really qualified? Arelex ranked first at a tournament not too long ago, IIRC.
I'd like to see how far I go in the tournament next month first. I feel confident I'll do well.

 

[Rizen]

I posted a vid in the video thread. There are a few people ahead of me waiting for critiques.
My Bowser's doing much better even vs decent people but I lack essential spacing/tactics :[ . Advice would be appreciated (ignore earlier vids).

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I think spacing with Bowser is pretty important, and I think I'm pretty decent at it myself. I like to Jab alot, Jab Cancel, and between those Jab Cancels throw out a F-Tilt after a Jab. It's not really something hard to grasp. Another defensive/spacive move is retreating F-Air and retreating Klaw.

 

[Labernash]

So imo id say top 5, assuming Limit is gonna get active again, is:
1. KingKong
2. Limit
3. Uncle/Zz
4. Uncle/Zz
5. Level 9 CPU

Number 5 in my city is my stuffed Bowser, Demetrius. He uses Level 9 Bowser. We enter him in tourneys! Demetrius should be top 5!!!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=318791

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Video or it didn't happen. :smug: