Wonderland Mafia GAME OVER: Town/Independent Win!

[Steel]

I felt his defense was fine, bar one awkward sentence when he decided to start talking about mafiascum. Gheb touched on this here:

This post just doesn't make sense to me because it completely lacks credibility. Riddle has played SWF Mafia since BIM if I remember correctly and he has evidently been scum before in Simpsons Mafia but all of a sudden he confuses the rules of SWF Mafia with those of Mafia Scum? I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who's having a hard time believing it.
I'm actually quite surprised that Riddle doesn't even mention the fact that Chaco simply cherry-picks the conclusion that incriminates Riddle the most and doesn't mention the fact that the post can be interpreted in less sinister ways that pretty much suggest themselves on their own. Instead he comes up with such a weak defense? I don't quite buy it and I'd like Riddle to elaborate on that.

but I don't really agree with the analysis, more importantly the second part. Riddle's main defense to Chaco was "It was not meant that way in any shape or form," so I feel that he was at least 'implying' to Chaco that he was reaching (not saying that there is necessarily something wrong with reaching at this stage of the game).

I felt the first part of the post was Riddle just trying to "lead in" to the fact that he ripped it from Mafiascum.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Don't get me wrong Chaco. I don't see the harm in that particular quote (as do many others) but that doesn't mean that Riddle's defense sits well with me, which is why I called him out for it. I guess my post wasn't well worded though.

 

[Chaco]

Have you any experience with Mafia Scum? If you have, you would know the distinct differences in the two types of scum play. On MS, the scum norm for talking is Pregame, and Night talk only. Where as on SWF, the norm is all talk. Which you can talk to anyone at any set time. Now, you think since Riddle's mafia roots start with SWF that he would know the differences between the two places, and would not get them confused. The excuse he used was crappy, because that involves ripping play off of another.

The quote could be a tell, that he does know the scums talking. That is where I got it from.

 

[Circus]

Off with their heads!:

Riddle (4): Macman, Chaco, Nicholas1024, Marshy
Nicholas1024 (3): §teel, Cacti, Tom
Marshy (1): Xiivi

Not Voting (4): Gheb_01, Omis, Omni, Riddle

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

 

[Xiivi]

unvote:

Riddle's defense is blah, but it's what I'd expect from someone attempting to defend what they thought was a joke vote. He comes off as more honest than anything, plus I like that he unvoted when he realized the game was exiting RVS.

Mac, you posted once while Riddle was at L-2. You didn't make any comment on the wagon you're riding, even though your vote seems like a meta-joke more than anything. Was your vote more serious than I thought?

vote: nicholas1024

You called Cacti's justification for his vote on you as unsatisfactory and Steel's as justified.

Steel justified his vote as

It was more the nature of your post. You didn't add anything, just said "I agree, vote!"

.

Cacti justified his vote as

It seemed too safe for something this early on.

Cacti's vote in my eyes was essentially "I agree, vote!"

A type of vote you made and defended with

We're only 2 pages into the game. The only thing to comment on was Chaco's case, and I did so by saying I agreed with him.

Cacti's vote wasn't that much further into the game, I don't see how you can call it out as unjustified.

 

[Tom]

game deserves a post + reread and i will get to it tomorrow ive just been hella busy and hella occupied by my other games. tomorrow.

 

[Nicholas1024]

vote: nicholas1024

You called Cacti's justification for his vote on you as unsatisfactory and Steel's as justified.

Steel justified his vote as .

Cacti justified his vote as

Cacti's vote in my eyes was essentially "I agree, vote!"

A type of vote you made and defended with

Cacti's vote wasn't that much further into the game, I don't see how you can call it out as unjustified.

The problem is, Cacti's vote is self-contradicting. His post was "I agree, vote!", when Steel called me out for doing exactly that. Although I don't have a huge problem with agreeing and voting with someone in the early stages of the game, calling someone out for doing that while doing the exact same thing is not logical.

Since the riddle bandwagon doesn't seem to be going anywhere, I might as well

Unvote

Vote Cacti for above reasons.

@Cacti
Would you happen to have an explanation?

 

[Circus]

Off with their heads!:

Nicholas1024 (4): §teel, Cacti, Tom, Xiivi
Riddle (3): Macman, Chaco, Marshy
Cacti (1): Nicholas1024

Not Voting (4): Gheb_01, Omis, Omni, Riddle

Omis has been prodded.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

avoiding prod

 

[Chaco]

avoiding prod

Seriously Yedi?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

L-2 isnt too horrible but anyone who puts someone at L-1 at this early in the game is instant scum. There is no need for the game to be that close to a lynch at the beginning.

I wish I wasn't already on the Riddle BW so that I could put him at L-1.

Mac, you posted once while Riddle was at L-2. You didn't make any comment on the wagon you're riding, even though your vote seems like a meta-joke more than anything. Was your vote more serious than I thought?

It was totally super awesome serious.

Riddle, mind linking me to some games you've played on MS? Just interested.
Omni, are you town?

Not removing my vote cuz riddle's defense was weird. and because he is scum since he confirmed an hr b4 I got my role.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Agree with nick that it's interesting that Cacti does the exact thing he's voting nick for. I would vote cacti buttttt the riddle wagon is so appealing.

cacti, what do you mean be "too safe for something this early on". Not following how being early in the day coincides with how reckless or safe one should play. What is the kind of post you would have preferred him to make?

 

[Chaco]

Pr ods?

 

[Circus]

Cacti and Omni have been prodded.

Omis was prodded last night and I haven't gotten anything back from him. He is closest to replacement at this point.

Also, a deadline has been set for Friday, November 20th at 11:59:59pm, EST.

Heads—use 'em, or lose 'em.

 

[Omis]

Why would you want to put him at L-1 Mac. I have school you guys. Not posting from 9 PM-6 PM is nothing bad.

 

[Omni]

Does that make you suspicious of him, omni?

slightly, but he didnt react to my nudge so i have little to work on except Cacti can be a badass if he really wants to

Omni, are you town?

this is really annoying considering:
1.) tom asked me this question and i answered
2.) we have been out of the rvs stage for quite sometime now
3.) this was your first post after coming in and sayin "avoiding prod"

why are you asking me this question at this point in the game, mac?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

you're avoiding the question

 

[Omis]

Mac has a good point.

 

[Omni]

bull****, mac. stop playing kiddy games.

Tom already asked me the question and i already answered it. no way i'm entertaining your **** at this point in the game Mac.

FoS: Omis for that little remark. Mac actually isn't making any points.

 

[Cacti]

Nick I voted you for pressure reasons, mainly.

I do not see how I was contradictory. All I said was I voted him because I had thought it was too safe, nothing else. I don't think I ever said anything about voting him because he bandwagoned if that is what you are saying.

 

[Chaco]

Why're you getting emotional over that Omni?

 

[Omni]

Why're you getting emotional over that Omni?

annoyed by mac's pseudo-scumhunting.

what's your take on me being emotional? more importantly, what's your take on macman's first 2 or 3 posts into the game?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

how am i pseudo scumhunting?

 

[Omni]

how am i pseudo scumhunting?

Riddle, mind linking me to some games you've played on MS? Just interested.
Omni, are you town?

or are you going to tell us not to take your seriously again.

answer my previous questions.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Asking you if you are town is pseudo scumhunting? It's a joke dude, we both know this. Dunno why yur getting all annoyed for. Don't see why you are overreacting and accusing me of pseudo scumhunting because of something I said that was clearly not an attempt to scumhunt.

also interesting how you fos omis for going along with the joke but not me for starting it and continuing it.

is there something about that particular question that bothers you?

 

[Omni]

nah. im just not a fan of joking around after we leave the joking behind with the rvs.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why is Nick @L-2? I don't think he has said or done anything that deserves 4 votes at this point.

Vote Riddle

With the information we currently have there's no reason for Nick to have more votes than Riddle. The fact that somebody, who hasn't done anything suspicious has more votes than somebody, who posts very dubious stuff (to say the least) doesn't sit well with me.

@§teel, Cacti, Tom & Xiivi

Do you all think that Nick is more suspicious than Riddle? If so, care to elaborate on those thoughts? What has Nick done that deserves your votes? Would you vote Riddle if he wasn't @L-2? If not, why wouldn't you?

@§teel

You voted Nick for putting Riddle L-2. Now Xiivi put Nick @L-2. The most logical consequence is that you should vote Xiivi now. What's the difference in Nick's vote on Riddle and Xiivi's vote against Nick? Is there a difference?

@Tom

Please don't play like you did in TS Mafia with all your "I'm going to post something tomorrow" and then you never actually post until much later.

 

[Xiivi]

FOS: Gheb for his L-2 obsessed question poised at steel neglecting the fact that he was putting Riddle at L-2 himself in that very post.

 

[Steel]

@§teel, Cacti, Tom & Xiivi

Do you all think that Nick is more suspicious than Riddle? If so, care to elaborate on those thoughts? What has Nick done that deserves your votes? Would you vote Riddle if he wasn't @L-2? If not, why wouldn't you?

yes, he has votes on him due to his vote on riddle and subpar defense.

no. because i don't think hes suspicious.

@§teel

You voted Nick for putting Riddle L-2. Now Xiivi put Nick @L-2. The most logical consequence is that you should vote Xiivi now. What's the difference in Nick's vote on Riddle and Xiivi's vote against Nick? Is there a difference?

what a horrible conclusion. where in your thought process did you think that was the "logical" consequence? should i vote everyone that puts someone at l-2? should i vote YOU since you just put riddle at l-2? this is a bad question. we're at a different stage of the game in different circumstances, coupled with i didn't fully agree with the reasoning on riddle and so i was cautious with him getting closer to lynch so early.

that and me and xiivi are bros

 

[Steel]

you're avoiding the question

you're also avoided omis' question by posting this.

why do you want to put him in a situation where he may have to claim already, depending if he panics or not? do you really think hes scum based on his average defense against an average scumhunt and the fact that he was able to claim before everyone? the latter is metagaming at its finest, and i suggest we actually play the game. unless that's another "joke" of yours, which is why i didn't like the little exchange you had with omni. why are you joking around when you could be saying some stuff a little more useful?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Nick I voted you for pressure reasons, mainly.

I do not see how I was contradictory. All I said was I voted him because I had thought it was too safe, nothing else. I don't think I ever said anything about voting him because he bandwagoned if that is what you are saying.

Since you agreed that putting someone at L-2 wasn't bad, you must have voted me for the nature of my post. (Which steel classified as "I agree, vote") That was pretty much exactly what Steel said, making your post an "I agree, vote" as well.

@Steel
Could we just establish once and for all, that it doesn't matter how high we carry a bandwagon, because if someone quick-lynches we've found a scum?

@Tom
agreed with Gheb, please be more active this game.

 

[Tom]

unvoting because i cant say i was that confident in the vote to begin with

hello, omni. you answered my question, but then i asked you if you would please specifically make your answer a standalone statement. for example, you said "definitely not mafia tom," but i would like to request that you specifically state "i am not mafia" or "I am town." thanks a million.

what was wrong with my play in Test Subject mafia? i was town, i did not get in the way of anyone, i did not garner unnecessary suspicion, i voted when i thought it was necessary, and we won. and who are you two to criticize my play? dont you think i know what im doing by now?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

you're also avoided omis' question by posting this.

why do you want to put him in a situation where he may have to claim already, depending if he panics or not? do you really think hes scum based on his average defense against an average scumhunt and the fact that he was able to claim before everyone? the latter is metagaming at its finest, and i suggest we actually play the game. unless that's another "joke" of yours, which is why i didn't like the little exchange you had with omni. why are you joking around when you could be saying some stuff a little more useful?

lol id put him at L-1 just to prove omis wrong.

it wouldn't be my fault is he was dumb and thought he had to claim

now, do you think I am suspicious because I am making jokes? Do you think I haven't said anything of value?

 

[Steel]

@Steel
Could we just establish once and for all, that it doesn't matter how high we carry a bandwagon, because if someone quick-lynches we've found a scum?

Do you think im scummy because i'm cautious about the vote count this early in D1 or just annoying?

lol id put him at L-1 just to prove omis wrong.

it wouldn't be my fault is he was dumb and thought he had to claim

now, do you think I am suspicious because I am making jokes? Do you think I haven't said anything of value?

if it continues to divert attention, then maybe. for now, not really. if i didn't think you had set anything of value i would have said so

 

[Omis]

lol id put him at L-1 just to prove omis wrong.

it wouldn't be my fault is he was dumb and thought he had to claim

now, do you think I am suspicious because I am making jokes? Do you think I haven't said anything of value?

unvote vote macman
That is stupid and callous reasoning meant only to further your jokes. I disprove.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

what are you even saying?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

how is that scummy?

 

[Chaco]

what was wrong with my play in Test Subject mafia? i was town, i did not get in the way of anyone, i did not garner unnecessary suspicion, i voted when i thought it was necessary, and we won. and who are you two to criticize my play? dont you think i know what im doing by now?

Well, Tom, I've seen and liked your play as town many times. However, I feel that you're carrying off of your meta currently. You have the "Burden of Profiency" attached to you, in terms.

@Omni: Honestly, I think it's null. And knowing Mac, it's normal for him.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

cacti, what do you mean by "too safe for something this early on". Not following how being early in the day coincides with how reckless or safe one should play. What is the kind of post you would have preferred him to make?

forgot yu didnt answer this

 

[Omis]

Upon rereading I realized that my post made zero to no sense. Disregard.