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Wonderland Mafia GAME OVER: Town/Independent Win!

#HBC | marshy

wanted for 3rd degree swag
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^ aye

forget exactly what it was omni. there was something in the thread that i read as you hinting at a power role and it looked similar to the ff7 bluff shenanigans. i pm'd nick not to fall for it
 

Nicholas1024

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really really good game circus. all aroundd

xiivii is amazing

we didn't even do anything good. riddle just randomly felt like lying about MS when it wasn't at all that serious. He basically gave us mafia d1.

I didn't think i'd get nked cuz i was doing that thing where everyone starts hating me cuz i confused ppl. And i thought mafia wud wanna keep me around but w/e was wrong.

but yea xiivi is pretty amazing
We NK'd you because riddle's half-baked attack on you at the end of D1 basically cleared you.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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General Thoughts and Comments:

This game was super enjoyable to host. Watching Riddle get bingo'd right from post 1 was really unexpected (and really kind of unwarrented I feel, considering his first post wasn't actually a scumslip and the "you confirmed before everyone" nonsense was irrelevant. But it was ultimately his shaky defense that did him in, I suppose). Regardless, Marshy and Nick rebounded from that pretty well, but they were forced onto the defensive for the rest of the game and they just couldn't really recover. Cacti's bingo on Marshy was most unlucky as well. It seems the town's PRs were a little more stacked than I had really wanted them to be, but I contend that things could have turned out differently if Riddle had lived. But the theme of the game was basically confusion and I think that translated pretty well, so I can't complain.

I regret not posting the town win condition in the OP. N00b mod mistake on my part which I attempted to correct a little too late when Marshy asked me for it (I didn't even think to give it Xiivi). While this is my own fault, I'll say that I really didn't appreciate you guys trying to break the game by grilling Riddle for the win condition. Good on Macman for being the chivalrous defender of proper play.

Also, it's worth noting that the only times the town every mislynched, it was because they jumped to conclusions and quicklynched in, like, less than a day. That should tell you something.

I kind of regret not giving safe claims, though I did think about it before the game. I really thought The Queen would be the only one who would need one, and thought it was rather unlikely that Nicholas would claim a CC-able character by the time a claim came around. Can't be right all the time.

I loooooooove Xiivi. I was so glad that The Cheshire Cat role went to someone who would get into it. His messages made for some really interesting reads and some really cool (disruptive) discussion. Can't say enough good things about him.

Omis was barely even in this game. I feel like something must have happened to him before this game even started that made him disinterested in playing. But Jungle made up for it well. Thanks for the assist, bro.

Macman was great. Didn't seem to doubt Riddle's scumminess for a minute and wanted to lynch him on that basis alone instead of a game breaker. Very nice.

Gheb was typical awesome town Gheb. Hence getting chopped early. Could've saved Steel, but not a big deal because people probably would have just been wondering about what his flip would have been the next Day.

Cacti didn't do much scumhunting D1, or really any Day, but he used his ability very effectively when he got it and nabbed scum. Points for that.

Chaco did really well. Pinned scum and forced them back on their heels right out the gate on Day 1. Though I feel kind of like a math teacher right now. Because it's kind of like Chaco got the right answer and wrote it down, but when I look back at the work he showed, it looks like there's no way he should have been able to get the right answer out of it. But you can't argue with results. Sorry 'bout the trickery, bud.

Omni was super lax on Day 1, but after he got Xiivi's message, he perked up and became really active. Very nice interrogation of Nick at the end. I could tell that, even without the modkill, the game was basically town's after that.

Tom was non-existent Day 1, but on Day 2 he came around and started contributing like I'd expect him to. In some ways, Tom was the best and worst person for the role he got—best in that he's into the theme and could figure out ways around his restriction and worst in that, had the wifom of the potential doc protect not dissuaded them, the mafia might have killed him immediately. Also, Tom's "Hatterisms" were phenomenally entertaining. His posts were some of the most fun to read.

Marshy, bless his heart, tried his damnedest to lead Riddle and Nicholas out of the mess they started in, but once Cacti bingo'd him, he was down for the count. I was actually really surprised it took so long to lynch Marshy after Cacti's claim, and I was even more surprised that you guys almost lynched Cacti instead. If you guys had managed to lynch Cacti then and left Marshy alive another Night, that definitely could have been a game swinger.

Nicholas' final act was pretty admirable. He rolled with Omni's CC pretty well with all things considered, but I really feel like there was just no saving him at this point. This proves that I really should have given the mafia safe claims. I didn't think I really needed to since I thought The White Rabbit and even The Caterpillar would be relatively safe names to claim, and then I figured Nicholas could probably claim The Dodo or Bill The Lizard or something. Unfortunately, he managed to pick the one character that would do him in. Overall, if he had gotten a little more active after Riddle's death (and especially after Marshy's), he might have been able to earn enough trust with the town to claim a little later. But that's neither here nor there.

Riddle just got ****ed for no reason. His defense was kind of weak (and I don't know why he bothered making it more complex than it needed to be), but he was put on the defensive over nothing. It was sad to see the mafia start out on such a completely wrong foot.

Good game everyone. I'm excited to host another one in the future. Hopefully a better one.
 

Omis

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including myself in your posts
Sorry again for the way I was during this game. My life problems started up like end of D1 and I really wanted to continue for everyones sake but eventually I just couldnt keep playing and subbed out.
 

Chaco

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Ironically that happens with my math work at times." Mr. Uncle Circus, did I work this right?"
 

Nicholas1024

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Nicholas' final act was pretty admirable. He rolled with Omni's CC pretty well with all things considered, but I really feel like there was just no saving him at this point. This proves that I really should have given the mafia safe claims. I didn't think I really needed to since I thought The White Rabbit and even The Caterpillar would be relatively safe names to claim, and then I figured Nicholas could probably claim The Dodo or Bill The Lizard or something. Unfortunately, he managed to pick the one character that would do him in. Overall, if he had gotten a little more active after Riddle's death (and especially after Marshy's), he might have been able to earn enough trust with the town to claim a little later. But that's neither here nor there.
Thanks man. I came this close to simply giving up once Omni CC'd me.
 

Tom

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This was a great game. Very enjoyable. I loved the theme, of course, but I also loved the execution.

The "mock doctor" alteration was fun. So were the hatter's "vague" conclusions. I like universal backups. I thought it was just fine that the mafia did not have safe-claims, because some of the town's claims were slightly incriminating while 2/3 of the mafia's claims were fairly innocent.

I questioned my sanity from Day 1 but I decided that acting on sanity questions would only bring down the town and that, mathematically, the correct decision would be never to question my sanity, so I put those fears to rest almost immediately and acted as a sane cop. My MO was to act somewhat like frozenflame751 did in Test Subject Mafia - in that game, he investigated all of the power players and ended up with strong innocent cases near endgame. I decided that I would simply investigate people that I thought were probably innocent to confirm that. I think that sidestepped any sort of mistaken sanity, because if I investigated someone looking for an inno and I got a guilty, I would question either my sanity or my ability to scumhunt... one of which is pretty good ;]

I never got to deal with Macman because, as the cop, I lurked all of Day 1 to make myself look like a non-viable kill target. I took as many prods as possible. I was extremely pleased when I came back into focus and a mafiat was already dead.

I thought it was awful dastardly of Xiivi to send Omni, of all people, a perplexing fake note. Forcing Omni to act on (false!) meta knowledge that nobody else has? That's like kicking a guy in his peg-leg no homo.

I'm still laughing at Chaco for counter-claiming a doc claim that wasn't even there. Love you bro.

Riddle obviously didn't do so hot. But that's fine. We all have games where we don't do so hot. Nicholas was doing an alright job of just coasting along, but he never accomplished anything either, and that is not enough to win. You have to actively sow the seeds of mislynches throughout the game, instead of basically allowing the town to hunt for you. Marshy did a good job, but I feel like he was put in a position similar to KevinM's in SLJ Mafia 1 - paired with two fairly new players, the experienced player (who isn't even the mafia's leader) has to take on so much extra weight that he no longer enjoys the game.

To be frank, I did not mind some Days lasting 24 real life hours. This is because we had established very clear and obvious next steps, that even if we were taking one step backwards (mislynch), the conclusions drawn from them would allow us to take two steps forwards (correct lynch), and we most definitely had enough mislynches (legroom) (wait what) (mixed metaphors).

The only "mistake" by the mod that I see is that you, Circus, didn't put the townie win condition in the first post. That vs. all the amazing things that you did with this game, undoubtedly a success.

I would hope that you are going to jump into the Large game hosting queue and design a larger, expanded Wonderland game with different ideas for the roles, and you could include some more characters (jabberwocky :3).
 

Xiivi

So much for friendship huh...
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But sending it to Omni was just so tempting! Especially when I felt he was town.

Sending it to Marshy was an attempt to get a better read on him based on his reactions to it.
 

Tom

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This happened on like game Day 3, immediately after Xiivi's RIDICULOUS post.

Yedispaghetti: lol wonderlandmafia
symptom129: LOL
symptom129: IM DONT UNDERSTAND ANY OF IT
Yedispaghetti: i dont know what yur claiming
symptom129: WHAT IS XIVI SAYING
Yedispaghetti: hahahhahaa
Yedispaghetti: hahahahahahaha
Yedispaghetti: hahahahahha
symptom129: HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW WHAT IM CLAIMING
symptom129: CHOCOLATE OR PEPPERMINT
symptom129: Chocolate Or Peppermint
Yedispaghetti: shush
symptom129: ur dead ******
symptom129: FJAFALFSDKJF
symptom129: THIS GAME SO FRUSTRATING
Yedispaghetti: whod yu investigate
Yedispaghetti: hahhahahaha
symptom129: WHO DO YOU THINK
Yedispaghetti: hahahahahahahahhahahahahahha
 
S

So Fresh

Guest
lol SWF acts like if we don't spend the entire time going in circles then we've wasted the day

omni what do you consider a quickhammer anyway? why is cacti at L-1 anyway if we're worried about quickhammers? what explanation did you want from Cacti? his reasoning was all OMGUS, sorry if that wasn't sufficient, but I don't think Cacti has the calibur for much more (sorry Cacti!)

I don't see the lynch changing at this point. I see Tom arguing the same stuff about why we should be lynching Marshy instead of Cacti (it's all good stuff) and I see everyone else wanting to lynch Cacti from kneejerk. It's funny how people go "fastest day 1 to 2 combo eva!" and get mad at Cacti for ending the day. I'll admit I was guilty of it too, but you people are so tunnelvisioned you aren't willing to believe his claimed investigation results enough to lynch his guilty result first even when he has a claimed innocent on him.

And you know what, after seeing his nameclaim and seeing his reaction to Marshy's note, I'm pretty sure he's telling the truth about it. unvote: vote: Marshy With scumfever V/LA until Sunday, we're gonna have all the time in the world! :D

his fav ice creams are peppermint or chocolate like, what don't you guys understand

why don't you guys see anything
you guys should really see these things, even if they are backwards

tl;dr
buddy toM buddy toM we have so much in common!

Omni
Omni


Cacti always plays his way into these dumb or scum scenarios.
Marshy always plays good.

oh guys in case I didn't make it obvious I lied about my favourite ice cream
it's not mint it's chocolate chip

alright let's go town!
such an amazing post
 

Xiivi

So much for friendship huh...
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You say "Go Team!" too? How did I never know how rad you were?
This is Circus trying to out me as an independent. The *******.

---
Also I'm not kidding when I seriously considered the possibility of getting people to vote: Circus and on the basis that the Chaco situation/Mysterious notes could be due to Circus putting himself into the game somehow.

God, I always want to lynch Circus don't I?
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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That was most certainly not my intention. I would never try to out my favorite role. :p

But yeah man, what's up with that?

Also, Xiivi. Was there actually anything to those letters you capitalized in Omni's message? I was too lazy to spend any time trying to figure out what they might mean and I'm just curious.
 

Xiivi

So much for friendship huh...
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Would have made it easier to push your lynch down the road if I sowed more seeds of doubt about you in more people's minds. :)
 

Tom

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yeah because we would totally want to lynch the guy that the hidden probably-not-town note-giver breadcrumbed secretly

that bothered me so much this game. "GUYS I GOT A NOTE LAST NIGHT THATS REALLY SECRETIVE AND IT HINTS TOWARDS TOM I BET TOM ISNT TOWN BECAUSE OF THIS"
 

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
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Xiivi did a good job hinting that it was you who was the sender. I just figured you were lying and really didn't trust you much after this. Obviously that was Xiivi's goal.
 

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
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why WOULDNT you send an incriminating letter, Tom? lmao. i could easily just go crazy over it and u could easily turn it on me.
 

Tom

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why WOULDNT you send an incriminating letter, Tom? lmao. i could easily just go crazy over it and u could easily turn it on me.
as scum why would i bring myself into the forefront, especially considering after you go crazy over it and you are lynched, you flip town, and now the town is looking at me.

"why wouldnt you send an incriminating letter" seriously what kind of question is this. that kind of WIFOM never pays off.
 

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
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psht

i did 10x better as a vanilla here then how i did in disney mafia. just don't give me any powers and i'll be straight.

@Tom: you're asking why, but you gotta understand i was trying to figure out the same. i eventually left it alone that day since i couldn't prove it was you who wrote it and eventually concluded it was Xiivi who wrote it right before he claimed mailcat
 

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
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i would've ignored the second one and knew someone was just ****ing with me at that point.
 
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