Will Shiek Return?

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah true xian, but I can see Sheik being cutted for a more simple reason...

Sheik and Young Link where added to Melee because of OoT's sucess.
-The Zelda franchise already has alot of characters, and alot of potential ones... So in order to add some more characters, atleast one should be cutted. Young Link is a clone yes, but he can be Luigified with a celshaded look.

I think they could do the same with Midna and Zant as they did with Sheik and Young Link, adding them in SSB because of the previous games's sucess... Heck, maybe they will even replace Zelda and Ganondorf with Midna and Zant. I'm not expecting them to do so, but it is possible!

 

[The_Corax_King]

Having TP Zelda (which is what Zelda will be) transform into shiek is the exact same as having mario transform into yoshi. Only OoT Zelda can transform into Shiek, no one else.

Under this logic, Mario will ONLY have moves from Galaxy... which means his cape, fireballs, and most of his other moves will be eliminated. Why didnt peach have a sporty moveset? Why did they give her moves from Mario 2? Most characters have moves from older games... why cant Zelda?

 

[Komayto]

Under this logic, Mario will ONLY have moves from Galaxy... which means his cape, fireballs, and most of his other moves will be eliminated. Why didnt peach have a sporty moveset? Why did they give her moves from Mario 2? Most characters have moves from older games... why cant Zelda?

Mm, while it is true that the moves are usually from a variety of games, Zelda's transformation was a lot more than a simple move. No, it required a whole new character to be made.

There's a lot of character-specific stuff that would need to be done to a returning character.
A new model, the Super move, stuff like that...
And Sakurai has stated that every returning character will be redone on a considerable scale.
I personally just don't think it would be worth their time and resources to revive Sheik for Brawl when she will most likely never appear as a part of Zelda's character again.

 

[Stryks]

Under this logic, Mario will ONLY have moves from Galaxy... which means his cape, fireballs, and most of his other moves will be eliminated. Why didnt peach have a sporty moveset? Why did they give her moves from Mario 2? Most characters have moves from older games... why cant Zelda?

Nop ur wrong cause mario has always been the same person, the same plumber after all these years, but zelda from OoT, isnt the same zelda from both WW and Tp, since both TP and WW happens hundreds of years after OoT, they have the same name and look yes, but they are not the same person...

 

[Legend_of_Link]

Sheik should and will stay.

 

[Stryks]

Can u give ur reasons of WHY u think would stay? ur u just like sheik thus shiek should stay??...

 

[Me14k]

I say Sheik is gone. It's not only because of her absence in Twilight Princess, it's also how the whole idea of Zero Suit Samus is based of Sheik... Thus having a huge change to replace her completly with it.

Zero suit samus will be pretty much the same as sheik.

Adios sheik !

 

[Diddy Kong]

Under this logic, Mario will ONLY have moves from Galaxy... which means his cape, fireballs, and most of his other moves will be eliminated. Why didnt peach have a sporty moveset? Why did they give her moves from Mario 2? Most characters have moves from older games... why cant Zelda?

Sure Zelda can have moves from older games, I've got no problem with that. However, Sheik is a whole other character than Zelda and shouldn't be called a "move" of hers. Still I think they will adjust Zelda to TP. But that doesn't says that her whole moveset will change!

Look here I give a small example moveset:

Princess Zelda;

A moves:

Forward tilt; Zelda draws her sword and gives a quick sword slash to her opponent. Similair to her Melee Ftilt, but faster and more reach.

Smash Moves:

Forward Smash: Zelda draws her sword, puts magic on the blade and forcefully thrusts the blade forward like a rapier. Has good knockback, but has bad afterward lag.

B moves !!Warning!! Might contain Twilight Princess spoilers!

>B: Lightning Bolt. Zelda charges a bolt of lighting energy while holding her sword up, the Lightning Bolt will take 4 seconds to charge but unlike Mewtwo and Samus, Zelda is unable to "keep" the charge. The Lightning Bolt is similair to the Din's Fire in terms of speed and animation, but cannot be controlled. The move will do around 14% damage and has good knockback.

vB: Triangle of Wisdom. This move is similair to Ness's PK Flash, however your more freely to "place" the attack. It's kinda hard to explain what I have in mind for it but... Zelda quickly charges energy, by holding B the energy becomes stronger... While charging, a light appeares in the ground where Zelda is standing. You are able to move that light around the stage, or around Zelda herself aslong as the ground where Zelda is standing is even (like Final Destination). The move is fully charged after 6 seconds, when the move is fully charged, a huge flash of light comes out of the ground and does around 28% damage but doesn't had much knockback. The move is around 1 and a half Bowsers wide, and is mainly useable to keep other characters at bay. If you release the B button earlier than the full 6 seconds, the move will be weaker.

ALL the other moves that aren't mentoined could easly stay the same. With this moveset, I don't think Zelda will change much... Except for one thing, she will actually played as... And not automatically changes into Sheik. ;>_>

 

[Black/Light]

I personaly think she will be changed alot and they will be adding light arrows and her sword to her. But I do agree that she could end up having her Din's Fire in a different form (maybe it would fly differently seeing as that attack was a str8t path hit).

 

[Diddy Kong]

I personaly think she will be changed alot and they will be adding light arrows and her sword to her. But I do agree that she could end up having her Din's Fire in a different form (maybe it would fly differently seeing as that attack was a str8t path hit).

OHH DAYMN! I knew I forgot something in my moveset! Yeah, the Light Arrows are pretty much needed if they'll modernise Zelda... Seeing as she's related to them in 3 games -counting OoT, after Zelda revealed her identity she gives you them.

Meh, I'm too lazy to add the Light Arrows to my moveset, but picture them as Zelda's standard B move. Also, the main purpose of my moveset was to show people how much Zelda can be changed from a OoT moveset to a TP one without many mayor changes.

 

[ravenlance]

holy freakin' moly!

 

[OysterMeister]

Just a few questions/ opinions...
Why give Zelda a sword? If you're looking for something she's only done in one game that isn't representative of her character than there you go. Zelda has never used a sword in any appearance outside of TP, and it's not representative of who she is. Zelda has magic and light arrows, which are both re-occuring abilities of hers, so if her moeset it updated then it'll be with these, not that one-time rapier.

And Zamus... why is she going to be excatly like Sheik again? I'll admit that she's a fast and agile transformation character, that much seems obvious, but does that imply that Zamus and Sheik will play at all the same? I don't think so.
Marth and Link both have swords, but upon closer inspection they have a whole slew of differences that make each of them unique and deserving of a place in Smash bros. Heck, Marth and Roy both weild swords, are of similar build, look similar, and have the same MOVES, but you still can't play them the same. So far, the few similarities notices between Zamus and Sheik mean NOTHING.

And even assuming Zamus plays the same as Sheik, why then must Sheik be replaced? Because we only need one transformation character, or something like that? I don't see how having two similar characters makes for a redundancy. Characters in Smash are there to be fun to play, not to fill some arbitrary 'roles'. So we've already got a fast and agile transformation character, so what? Why can't we have two?

And for my money, Sheik is just another of Zelda's moves. She's an ability first seen in a very definative game in the series, and she's also representative of the recent evolution of the character. You can't ask for a better move than that. You also can't say that a character in disguise should be considered a seperate character (I'm looking at you, Dr. Mario).
I'll admit, as moves go it's pretty heafty, what with adding a whole new character and all, but it's not like there aren't other such moves. Kirbys neutral B has the potential to be any of, what, 24 or so seperate moves? That's more moves than you'll find in any single character.

Also, characters in smash don't come from just one game, they're mash-ups of all their appearances, created to be the most representative, definative version of that character possible. This is why Link has his four most common items, why Samus has her four most classic upgrades, and why Fox looks like he's trying to pull off 8 different looks at the same time.

 

[tstumo]

been gone for a while. this debate still going on? i read all the pages Stryks and Diddy Kong, you guys make too many good points and i think it's really not neccessary that you state them again. here's the break down

Shiek wasnt popular in OOT. it was in melee where everyone jumped on the Shiek bandwagon

yes it's possible for Shiek to get a brawl update. it's possible for anyone to get a brawl update but that doesnt mean Sheik automtically makes it in.

Zelda can actually fight on her own now. Brawl is the oppurtunity to show that. they did it with Peach.

"Sheik was in the great OOT" just like the gorons and everyone else but that doesnt mean she should be included. it was 10 years ago. yes the argument of Pit will come up. but he's Retro and was the STAR of his game. Shiek was a disguise for Zelda. just like Mario wore that little frog suit in super mario bros 3. remember that? but um tell me was it ever used again?

Sheik being in melee made a lot of sense. Zelda was a weak little ol' princess that could use magic. but magic wasnt enough to hold her own against nintendos greatest. so they included Shiek. not only because they wanted Zelda to be a decent opponent but because OOT came out and was widely popular.

i dont really like to bring up the point that ZSamus is the new Shiek but there is truth to it. she is a transformation esque type character. she might not transform like Zelda/Shiek but it will be in som way we just dont know about. no other character "transforms" that is also a reason to not include shiek. we dont need two transformation characters.

now with the obvious. Zelda fights in TP by herself no Shiek needed. why would she need Shiek in melee? because you love her so much? because you dont want to master another character? yes it was nice while it lasted but it's Zelda's turn to actually get a chance to fight seeing as she is very capable to now.

they are two different Zeldas and she being able to transform into Shiek wouldnt make sense. now this is where you mention "when has SSB ever made sense it's not supposed to"
it does still. in the case of Link and y.link. im sure people have seen Cartoons,games etc where they travel in the past or future and see their former or future selves so it's no that odd. Dr mario and mario... i dont know what to say about that. i can say however that Sakuirai only put DOC in there because he wanted to use his music. he said it himself.

anyway yes this was very lengthy but i tried to sum up everything i already said and maybe a few things other people said.

 

[Bowserlick]

I think it is obvious that Sheik will go. There are two apparent clues.

1. There are two Samus Aran’s in the game. Sakurai said he didn’t want to do clones, so why would he put in the same character twice. This doesn’t make sense unless…
2. Zero Suit Samus is replacing a popular character archetype. Sheik was the fast, ninja female with double hits and high combo potential. But she has two problems. She is no longer a part of the Zelda universe (that I know of) and she was broken. What better way to solve both those problems by adding in another character that can take her fighting style.

By the way the second clue is that many of Zero Suit Samus’s moves either resemble Shiek’s moves or have the same fluid style. I think Zamus is the fixed version of Sheik
.

 

[OysterMeister]

I think it is obvious that Sheik will go. There are two apparent clues.

1. There are two Samus Aran’s in the game. Sakurai said he didn’t want to do clones, so why would he put in the same character twice. This doesn’t make sense unless…
2. Zero Suit Samus is replacing a popular character archetype. Sheik was the fast, ninja female with double hits and high combo potential. But she has two problems. She is no longer a part of the Zelda universe (that I know of) and she was broken. What better way to solve both those problems by adding in another character that can take her fighting style.

By the way the second clue is that many of Zero Suit Samus’s moves either resemble Shiek’s moves or have the same fluid style. I think Zamus is the fixed version of Sheik
.

Um... what?
First off, there aren't two Samus Arans in the game, there's one Samus, but she can fight either with or without her power suit. To be a different Samus, Zamus would have to be a separate character, and the Brawl website says this isn't the case.
Secondly, I don't see why Zamus must REPLACE a popular character archetype. It's not like there's a limit to the number of characters allowed in Brawl who can be fast and acrobatic, is there? Seriously, if a set number has been issued, I'd like to know.


And if Zamus is a 'fixed' version of Sheik, well, that's code meaning 'worse', right? Can you imagine a more effective way to simultaneously anger and alienate one group of Smash Bros players, while biasing the rest against a new character, than by replacing a popular character with a weaker version?
Overall, it seems possible, yes, but practically it seems like a pretty underhanded tactic.

 

[Bowserlick]

Um... what?
First off, there aren't two Samus Arans in the game, there's one Samus, but she can fight either with or without her power suit. To be a different Samus, Zamus would have to be a separate character, and the Brawl website says this isn't the case.

The website does not say this. It says Zamus is not a pure character addition. And techinically she isn't a pure character condition. This could mean that she exits her suit due to some possible circumstance as Samus or it could mean she isn't a pure character condition because she is another character in a different suit.

The website says that under certain conditions she takes off her suit. This could mean that to unlock Zamus as a secret character on a select screen you have to fulfill some obligations.

Vague sentences.
Secondly, I don't see why Zamus must REPLACE a popular character archetype. It's not like there's a limit to the number of characters allowed in Brawl who can be fast and acrobatic, is there? Seriously, if a set number has been issued, I'd like to know.

She doesn't have to replace it. Bowser and DK both fulfill the heavyweight, strength centered archtype but are very different. But it appears that Zamus has a whip, a similar blue suit, perhaps a projectile, and similar moves to Sheik. Plus Zamus is an alter ego of an existing character. Sheik was the same thing. With the release of Twilight Princess Zelda's moveset might completely change. I am not saying it will happen, but there are enough clues where it seems like a strong possibility.


And if Zamus is a 'fixed' version of Sheik, well, that's code meaning 'worse', right? Can you imagine a more effective way to simultaneously anger and alienate one group of Smash Bros players, while biasing the rest against a new character, than by replacing a popular character with a weaker version?
Overall, it seems possible, yes, but practically it seems like a pretty underhanded tactic.

It depends what you mean by worse. Balancing a character to improve gameplay and deiversity (so the tournament scene isn't choked with the same fighters) would make a better character in my opinion.

 

[Kirye]

The website does not say this. It says Zamus is not a pure character addition. And techinically she isn't a pure character condition. This could mean that she exits her suit due to some possible circumstance as Samus or it could mean she isn't a pure character condition because she is another character in a different suit.

The website says that under certain conditions she takes off her suit. This could mean that to unlock Zamus as a secret character on a select screen you have to fulfill some obligations.

Vague sentences.

That's one possibility, the other being that she possibly loses the power suit after obtaining the Brawl icon. (A look into the trailer, vague, but a possibility.). Sakurai said he didn't want clones and the such, also your statement is contradictory. Many in this thread have said that it would be pointless to have Sheik and Zelda as separate characters, but here you are saying Samus and Zamus separate is okay? Then Sheik and Zelda separate would be too, duh.

She doesn't have to replace it. Bowser and DK both fulfill the heavyweight, strength centered archtype but are very different. But it appears that Zamus has a whip, a similar blue suit, perhaps a projectile, and similar moves to Sheik. Plus Zamus is an alter ego of an existing character. Sheik was the same thing. With the release of Twilight Princess Zelda's moveset might completely change. I am not saying it will happen, but there are enough clues where it seems like a strong possibility.

Whip that transforms into a gun, a colored suit has no relevance as it's a game where you select from various colors, and not necessarily similar moves, just what, 2? Awesome, Mario and Luigi are somewhat diff and have similar moves, nice thinking that one through. And as it is a possibility, so is it a possibility of Sheik returning. I'm not saying she will, but rather that she has a higher chance than most peeps here give her credit for. Zamus is badly designed anyway. (Personal opinion, no relevance.)

It depends what you mean by worse. Balancing a character to improve gameplay and deiversity (so the tournament scene isn't choked with the same fighters) would make a better character in my opinion.

Then wouldn't Sheik be balanced? If you're talking about tournament favorites, i'd have to say Fox is the big one, not Sheik. Give or take, i'm thinking Fox isn't gonna change very much, there's a supposed 'balance', but after some time, people find ways of using anything to their advantage, thus wave-dashing. The melee creators didn't necessarily have WDing in mind, but it happened. What's to stop that from happening in Brawl, rather than Sora making every character the same like in Street Fighter? Nothing. There's no such thing as trying to balance something, and Sheik has her flaws as well. The thing going for Sheik however is Smash bros. popularity, switching her for Zamus, who's gonna be a strange case in my opinion (Be it that my thoughts on her changing after using the Brawl icon is true), isn't necessary.

All in all, there's as much a chance as Sheik being removed from Smash bros. as there is chance of Bowser, Ganondorf, Marth, and even Zelda herself getting the boot. Relativity to their past games means nothing, rather their performance and abilities in a fighting game.

 

[heety9]

Noooooooooooooo! Shiek Must Not Goooooooooooooooooo!

 

[petre]

while i agree it would be cool to see a sword-wielding zelda, i think the chances of it are really really small. i mean, seriously, in TP, she never once even swings the sword, she just stands there and holds it...it might just be a symbol of leadership, and not even used as a weapon. second, that is for like 10 seconds in the game where she is holding it. however, i could see her using light arrows, or something like that. however, i dont think they would be like link's, they would probably fly on a straight trajectory (wouldnt fall), and maybe have more stun than links. otherwise i think zelda should have the same style of magic-based moves as before.

as for shiek...i want her to stay, however i dont think she wll. i mean, think about it. sheik had the chain...zamus has the whip. sheik had needles...zamus has a gun. sheik had a teleport...and samus has a bunch of high-tech gear, so it wouldnt suprise me if zamus used a teleporter or something similar. all of the moves you see in the trailer are fast attacks with low knockback, so she fits that quick-comboing style...yes, you can say there are multiple characters with the same style, but zamus and sheik are close to the point of saying they are clones. its not just a same weight/same strength thing. therefore, i believe sheik will be replaced by zamus. sorry sheik. you should have snuck into TP somewhere...

 

[GenG]

i mean, seriously, in TP, she never once even swings the sword, she just stands there and holds it...it might just be a symbol of leadership, and not even used as a weapon.

Spoiler

Puppet Zelda swings the rapier to cast energy balls, and tries to stab you by flying. Of course you can argue that was due to Ganondorf's but the point stands. The rapier is used somehow.

 

[Stryks]

^^^
Yeah I was gonna say that, but was way too lazy to post XD...

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I still can't believe that people think that the characters in Brawl are only going to reflect current stature.

These assumptions are way to deep,and only into physical detail.

I guess I'll never understand why people make such haphazard assumptions.-_-

 

[Icy_Eagle]

How are these assumptions any deeper than assuming sheik will stay

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still say Sheik won't come back. Zero Suit Samus ftw!

 

[Dark Ryu]

Sheik is a great character! She should definately come back!

 

[Stryks]

Just because she was godly in smash, doesnt mean shes important to the series she comes from, seeing how we'll probably never c sheik again in any other zelda game, that makes her a minor character to the series, and thus minor characters shouldnt be represented in brawl...

 

[Diddy Kong]

She always WAS a minor character, even in OoT where she hailes from. She was just added in Melee to add differcity to Zelda cause she didn't had moves enough on her own. Now after TWW and TP Zelda actually has alot of potential moves even without Sheik being there so Zelda wouldn't need Sheik for more differcity.

Also be GLAD when she's gone in Brawl, since she'd be nerfed as hell anyways... PAL Sheik was still godly even after the nerfing of the chain throwing, just look at Nihonjin. O_O; I'm still saying Sheik won't, or atleast SHOULDN'T come back to Brawl.

 

[Tijaro]

Are you serious?
Sheik was and still is the epitome of Advanced Smash Bros. play. She should return.
However, something tells me that this new Samus Zero Suit will be her replacement.
Truly unfortunate...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah Advanced Smash Bros... >_>; Really, noone in advanced play cares what character they play they only want to play their favorites among the Top Tiers where they can win tourneys with that will not change in Brawl. If Sheik where to return but sucky she simply wouldn;t be the epitome of the Advanced Smash anymore would she? That's why it doesn't mathers if Sheik doesn't return... She has no value anymore. Be happy that you've got Zero Suit Samus for god's sake. -_-;

 

[The Director]

I don't know if Shiek will make a return or not, but if so then I hope that he's toned down. Shiek should be more sneaky than fast, and with the inclusion of Snake and the supposed 'crawling' technique that we've speculated about, this could be the perfect opportunity to change Shiek around a bit.

 

[rm88]

Hmmm... most people want her to be removed just because she was kinda overpowered, right? What if they nerf her just like they did with Kirby and Pikachu? I get the whole TP theme point, and I must say I agree, but IMO she is way too original to be removed.

 

[Diddy Kong]

That's when Zero Suit Samus came in. Her moveset could be based from Sheik's, but nerfed. Simple as that.

 

[Fallen C]

There's no way sheik is gonna return. That would be weird having both sheik and zero suit samus seeing that there moves are so similar.

 

[OysterMeister]

We don't know that Sheik and Zamus will be identical. A first look seems to draw similarities, but that means nothing. Personaly, I dislike the idea of Zamus as a Sheik clone, because it seems to rob Brawl of what could be a fun and unique moveset. I'd rather have Sheik stay and Zamus have a totally new moveset than have Sheik get cut only to be replaced by Zamus.
It just seems dissapointing to have one of our few newcomers reduced to the status of nerfed clone before we even get a chance to see her in action. That's a defeatist kind of mindset.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Don't see it as a clone, since Sheik won't be there. Nah, I don't think Zamus would have a indentical moveset to Sheik, I still see alot of uniqueness in Zamus but that doesn't mean she wouldn't play like Sheik...

 

[OysterMeister]

Ok, but then...
If Zamus isn't a near-identical replacement for Sheik, then she has no bearing on whether or not sheik should return. Sheik shouldn't be taken out just because a character with a similar playstyle is added anymore than Bowser should be taken out if another heavy character gets added. You wouldn't argue against Marth if Sigurd made it in, right? Even if they both played the same?
Of course you wouldn't. Because, similar or not, two unique movesets is always better than one unique movsets. That's just math.

There's no practical reason to remove Sheik. Only the romantic notion that she no longer has a place in the Zelda series. It all boils down to preferences. Is it more important for smash to make sense, or is it more important for smash to be fun and diverse?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, even though Bowser and lets say DK are both heavy weights they surely don't play the same... Err except for their recoveries atleast. I'm betting Zamus and Sheik will be more similair, since they're both transformation characters with very fast tilts, and quick but weak Smashes. And from what we've seen, Zamus also has a whip which was a pretty minor feature of Sheik I admit but this is the ideal time to change that...

Also about Sigurd, I don't want him if they plan on keeping Marth... That's why I'd much rather have Ike.

 

[AngelGod]

NO,Sheik and Zelda are a must, for return, without them I don't think SSBB
would be the same.

 

[Wiseguy]

Greetings gentlemen, Wiseguy here - or as my friends like to call me: President of the Sheik-Must-Die Club. It has a relatively small following at the moment (one member) but its mission statement speaks for itself: spread the word that Sheik is the personification of all that is cheap and despicable in this world and should under no circumstances appear in Brawl or any other videogame ever again. Ever.

Sheik is an unsightly blemish on the masterpiece that you and I know and love as Super Smash Bros Melee. Of all the fighting games I've played, I consider the Melee to be among the most fair and balanced. Sure, if you have Robo-cop like reflexes you use Fox and Falco to grind your enemies to a pulp and few characters smile on spammers quite like Marth, but on the whole the game is enjoyable and competitive regardless of your character selection. Enter Sheik. With her ridiculously overpowered and stupidly fast attacks and no weaknesses Sheik tansihes an otherwise multiplayer experience.

Sheik is a scum sucking parasite that ruins otherwise fun tournaments and grudge matches because EVERYONE plays as her, giving them a huge advantage over anyone not playing as a high-tier character. There is only one reason why anyone plays as this cross-dressing abomination: because they lack the skill to play as anyone else. Sometimes the truth hurts.

Fortunately for everyone, there is an approximately zero percent chance of Sheik making a return appearance in Brawl - nerfed or otherwise. In the Zelda series she is by far one of the most insignificant characters. She appeared in a single game as Sheik's alter ego and has yet to make another appearance, meaning that she is as important to the series as the Old man from LoZ and Link’s uncle in ALttP.

Judging from Link's updated Twilight Princess look, Sakurai is more interested in having characters from the newer Zelda series rather than making Brawl a retirement home for outdated characters and irrelevant characters from past Zelda games. Zelda will undoubtedly get a similar Twilight Princess makeover as well as a new moveset that reflects her role in TP. Sheik will surely be axed, making way for more worthy Zelda characters like Midna.

If there were ever any lingering doubts about Sheik imminent removal, they were dashed the moment that it was revealed that Zamus’ moveset is, while not identical to Sheik’s, certainly very similar to it. This is likely the case in order to appease distressed Sheik players when they buy Brawl and discover that Sheik has been removed.

A day of reckoning is at hand. Soon, Sheik will be eliminated from the Smash Bros. roster, thus forcing all the honorless, button mashing Sheik players to face their opponents on an equal playing field. Oh, why a grand day that will be.

 

[GreenMamba]

Wiseguy, while I appreciate the fact that you believe Sheik will be removed... this post is almost nothing but flame bait that just makes this side look bad.