Will Shiek Return?

[Stryks]

1) Ice climbers are a totalyl diferent story, theyre retros, many retros wont have other games, but not only is sheik not retro, the series where she appeared in is still going, while shes no longer appearing, thus she will be forgotten in a few years, not totally, but she wont be as popular, and like all the othe rpkmn, they keep appearing in other pkmn games, mewtwo can still appear in Diamond and pearl, if u trade pkmn u can have him in, hes a totally diferent story, Y. lin appeared in WW, thus should be replaced by WW link, I dont know about FE, so I wont say anything about marth and roy (but roy will probably leave, seeing how he was just an advertisament)

2) Zelda will not only have the TP look, but will probably have new attacks, like the infamous light arrows, seeing how the zelda character will have moves from TP (link not using magic in the spin atatck for e.x., ganondorfs sword of sages, zeldas light arrows) and not to mention other attacks, sheik will probably be left in the dust, seeing how she will probably not return in other zelda games, thus she will probably leave smash...

3) Meh, I c zamus similaior to sheik in the moves area, but we will have to wait and c...

 

[Black/Light]

*Couch, Couch*where Zelda got her melee moves from.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOMXw8MmO9o *Couch*
As that shows, her moves came from OoT magic attacks and items.

The Zelda series is continuing, but Smash bros has nothing to do with the series.

*Points to link above*

Shiek was a one time thing in Ocarina of Time, but after 5-6 years, she's become more than that, a powerful character in a long-loved fighting game.

Really, I absolutly hate it when people say "So-and-so will come back because they are loved/ popular in melee". EVERY character in melee is loved and popular for being in melee but that doesn't matter. Why you ask? Because they are still going to cut characters. If this held any water Sakurai would have said "we will bring every character in Melee back because they are all loved and popular with many fans because of Melee".

If you were playing Brawl right now, picked Zelda, and she transformed into Shiek, what would you honestly say? "WTF ZELDA ISN'T SHEIK ANYMORE! WAH"? I doubt it.

Actually, I would. I would think "Humm, why is a TP Zelda tranforming into a alter ego of a Zelda from a 100+ years in the past? They have no connection". But thats just me. . .

Sheik is one part of Zelda that made her popular, which is why she was included in Melee. Can you honestly say that TP Zelda impressed you?

No, Zelda was one of the 3 most important characters in LoZ (NAME after her). She was popular on her own. Shiek is nothing more than Zelda in Ninja form. . . really just somewhat of a add on to her character, not a reason for her popularity. And TP Zelda impressed me. . . I didn't have to shoot and ride the horse at the same time which made fighting alot more fun . She was also a fun boss

Also, if they're being updated to their 'last game', Ice Climbers would look around the same wouldn't they?

I actually don't think their coming back. . .

And before you say TP Zelda can't transform into Sheik, why not? If it's Smash bros Zelda with a new model, wouldn't she still be relatively the same? It's not Twilight Princess Zelda, i'm pretty sure Smash bros is gonna have nothing to do with her shooting light arrows on a horse.

*Couch, Couch* Point's at vid for the 3rd time*Couch*.


Stryks has some good points.

 

[Stryks]

Kirye put THAT in ur pipe and smoke it! XD finally somone that knows what hes talkin about, way to go Black/light

 

[Diddy Kong]

The Smash bros games INCLUDE items from other franchises, it doesn't mean Smash bros is now part of the Zelda/Mario/Metroid/Star Fox/Pokemon/Fire Emblem/Kirby/Etc franchise. Same for the stages, and everything else. As for an example towards the moves, what did Captain Falcon have in F-Zero that made him have those techniques in Melee? Or Star Fox? Or Donkey Kong, Marth? I could go on if you want me to.

No, Smash Bros isn't part of the Zelda/Mario/Metroid ect franchises... We never said that didn't we? Still, they update characters to their latest models and moves in their games. Jigglypuff for example, in the 1st gen of Pokémon the move Rollout didn't excisted, so she didn't had that move in SSB. But it did excisted in the 2nd gen, so Jigglypuff did had the move in Melee. Not the best example, but Smash Bros. sure goes with it's time! Just look at Fox, his new look resembles his lastest looks, and he will always hold his gun like in Assault IICR.

C.Falcon and Fox's moves may be made up, but they do resamble the games the characters are from. F Zero was a racing game, so C.Falcon is a very fast character... In StarFox you shoot lasers, so Fox has a gun. The moves may be made up, but they do fit the characters well. And if I'm correct, did C.Falcon used his Falcon Punch in the F Zero anime??

The Zelda series is continuing, but Smash bros has nothing to do with the series. Are you gonna say Soul Calibur II is related to Zelda because it has Link in it? Let's move on. Shiek was a one time thing in Ocarina of Time, but after 5-6 years, she's become more than that, a powerful character in a long-loved fighting game. If you were playing Brawl right now, picked Zelda, and she transformed into Shiek, what would you honestly say? "WTF ZELDA ISN'T SHEIK ANYMORE! WAH"? I doubt it. Sheik is one part of Zelda that made her popular, which is why she was included in Melee. Can you honestly say that TP Zelda impressed you? Even Tetra had more story than TP Zelda did. >.>

No, Sheik was included because of Ocarina of Time's sucess, same as Young Link with Mayora's Mask. However, Sheik's role wasn't that big and was mainly added in Melee to make Zelda more unique. Just like with Game & Watch, the big suprise is gone from Sheik, so I doubt she'll ever be in another Zelda game.

Sheik was an Ocarina of Time character only, and added to Melee because of it's sucess. Now the character Zelda has evolved her personality more in the lasest games, so it's only naturally they will adapt her to it. Same with let's say, DK... Because of Donkey Konga's sucess in Japan, he'll perhaps have a Bongo move as a Super Attack?

Other characters as Mario, Pikachu and Kirby won't change much because they're timeless characters. Those characters have developed so good, that any mayor change would be a disapointment. The Zelda games barely have anything in common with each other in terms of storyline and characters, since it changes with the games. Example; in one game, Impa is a old lady, in the other one she's a strong body guard of Zelda. The characters may be called the same, but they clearly aren't... Same goes for Sheik, since it's likely all Zelda characters will be based on TP, Sheik cannot excist togheter with Zelda.

Also, if they're being updated to their 'last game', Ice Climbers would look around the same wouldn't they? As would many other characters. Sheik's last game was Ocarina of Time, but they can easily add in some Twilight Princess details into her outfit, and she'd be good, in fact her look now is fine enough for Brawl, just needs a roughing like every character's gotten.

The diffrence between Sheik and the Ice Climbers is that the Ice Climbers are retro characters, revived for a spot in Smash Bros, so they clearly DON'T have to look the same as they did in their own game. Sure, they could give Sheik a TP look... But I don't think Sheik is worthy of being revived just because she HAS to be in Brawl, because she doesn't. If Sheik just had her own franchise, it'd be okay... But no, she's part of the ZELDA franchise, which is known for their CHANGES.

And before you say TP Zelda can't transform into Sheik, why not? If it's Smash bros Zelda with a new model, wouldn't she still be relatively the same? It's not Twilight Princess Zelda, i'm pretty sure Smash bros is gonna have nothing to do with her shooting light arrows on a horse.

No, because Zelda changing into Sheik would ruin the whole image which Zelda has gotten in Twilight Princess, and her overall evolution. Instead of the captive maiden, Zelda actually fought Ganondorf to 2 times without any ninja disguise. So in that way, Smash Bros. DOES has everything to do with Zelda shooting Light Arrows. Sheik was just one thing Zelda did in one game, just like Link shrinking and having a talking hat one time... And I swear, if the Wind Waker didn't excisted and the devlopers HAD TO keep Young Link I say he would be based on the Minish Cap and not Ocarina of Time and Mayora's Mask.

Sure Sheik is a very populair character in Melee, but guess what... Ness, who has gotten VERY populair in SSB was planned to be replaced by Lucas in Melee. However, since Mother 3 wasn't even released Sakurai let Ness live. So it's not so that they don't replace older characters with newer ones!

 

[Stryks]

Thank u diddy kong, im hopin that settles the debate, and the verdict is: SHEIK IS GONE

 

[LukeFonFabre]

Honestly, I personally see Sheik going either way. I had fun playing with Sheik, but I won't be too sad to see her gone. She has a chance of staying sure, they all do, but there is still an argument for her leaving.

First of all, Sheik isn't really that important to the series she comes from. Granted, after Link, Zelda and Gannondorf, there aren't many characters who do hold a lot of importance in the Zelda series. Granted, Sheik is one of the more popular stand alone characters, but so are Midna, Vaati and Skull Kid, and I guess it's up to Sakurai if he wants to keep Sheik for another game or let her step down for another deserving and interesting character with a different level of gameplay.

As for the Zelda issue, I think there's a chance that she might be redisigned. After Melee she's become more active in the series, and I think there's a very good chance that she'll have the light arrows in some way considering she's done it in 2 games now. While I'd personally like to keep Zelda primarily mage like, I wouldn't mind if they threw her sword in there. To be honest, I'd actually be surprised if Zelda doesn't change even a little. Of course, this doesn't mean Sheik is gone, but Zelda definately has a lot more to her than simply Sheik like she used to.

And then there's ZS Samus. Obviously, simply saying that she has a few similarities with Sheik doesn't mean anything, and it's wrong to assume that's the reason she'd leave. However, Sheik's return hasn't been definate for a long time and even before ZS Samus' moves were revealed a lot of people speculated that she would play very similair to Sheik. What little the new trailer showed of her seemed to suggest going in that direction, and add the fact that ZS Samus is very likely a transformation character (the subject stillseems quite ambiguous atm, and I guess neither is certain until we see actual visual proof), there are quite a few similarities between the two. Sure, it doesn't prove that ZS Samus is replacing Sheik, but it's easy to see why people think that.

So really, why it's not certain either way, there is reason to believe that Sheik may not return, and at the very least, I definately wouldn't say she's one of the most likely characters to return. However, it's still too early to definately say she's returning/leaving just yet.

 

[Kirye]

Eh, 4 against 1, i'm beat. u.u

But rather, let's just wait and see what happens in Brawl. As long as they add in Marth or Falco, i'll be fine, if not at least I know I already have Fox back. XD *Granted he can still shine spike in Brawl.*

But! If Sheik's in Brawl you all must praise me as your lord! D=

 

[Wrath`]

I think shiek will return.Good zelda players used both forms equaly.And z/s is a uniqe tranformation that no other charecter can do.besides likn/wolf link.

I'd hope shiek will stay.She had a uniqe move set.

 

[The_Corax_King]

Taking out shiek would be completely pointless... its not like she takes away a character slot... and any down B move that they give zelda will be totally inferior to the ability to become a ninja goddess...

 

[Black/Light]

Taking out shiek would be completely pointless... its not like she takes away a character slot... and any down B move that they give zelda will be totally inferior to the ability to become a ninja goddess...

She is a whole different character. Different modle, animations, stats, hit box, attack box, taunt etc. She would still take up a character spot even if she isn't on the select list.

 

[The_Corax_King]

Thats why she should stay... that way you can have a completely different character that doesnt take up space on the selection screen... taht way the game has more characters than meets the eye... same goes with Zamus...

 

[shadenexus18]

All I gotta say is that Shiek is one lonely ninja. We need more shinobi in Brawl!!! Perhaps.....Impa?

 

[The_Corax_King]

gross... I dont think impa would be a good idea... shiek on the other hand...

 

[Tiamat]

Taking out shiek would be completely pointless... its not like she takes away a character slot... and any down B move that they give zelda will be totally inferior to the ability to become a ninja goddess...

Please. You don't have to take up a character spot on the character selection screen in order to take up the TIME AND RESOURCES it takes to PROGRAM a character.

 

[OysterMeister]

Sheik will stay.
Now, it's true that Sheik won't appear in another Zelda game (I assume anyway, it's not like I can really ever know), and if she was any other character I'm sure she wouldn't have made it into melee in the first place. But Sheik has a trump card: she's Zelda in disguise. In the literal sense, we can stop thinking of Sheik as her own character, and start thinking of her as another of Zelda's abilities, because that's what she is.
So why should Zelda LOSE the ability to magically change her appearance in Brawl? Just because she hasn't done so recently? Poppycock, lots of characters in Smash Bros retain old moves they haven't used in quite awhile. If a character did something cool that would be a good addition to the game in any of their appearances the Brawl developers are alowed to use that ability, and you better believe that Zelda's ability to transform makes that list. As well as some of the other stuff that I'm sure she does in TP, I'm sure some of that will be in there as well, if it's cool enough.

Bottom line, Sheik stays not because she's an immportant character in her own right, but because she's arguably the coolest of Zelda's abilities, and the game would be missing out if Zelda had to lose that ability.
You don't want Brawl to be missing out... ... ... do you?

 

[Stryks]

Yeah lets totalyl keep sheik caus ethats zeldas most awesome move!... umm no, Zelda will pretty much get a new moveset, or they will just change the b moves, Zelda wil lget the light of arrows, seeing how she used them in both WW AND TP, the triangle attack from TP, and many others, Zelda will eventually get her TP look, and seeing TP zelda transform into Sheik, seeing how sheik is zelda from 100 years, seems rather pointless, I know the transforming is unique, but either sheik is out and no one else has a transformation, or shiek is out and somone else gets a transformation, I pretty much think if bowser jr gets in brawl, he will transform into shadow mario, anyway, sheik aint coming back in future zelda series, while the series is still going on, so why keep a character that wont come back in brawl?

 

[OysterMeister]

Okay, two thing:
1) You have no way of knowing that Zelda will be given a new moveset for Brawl. This in itself is unlikely considering that she's already a unique character in Melee. It's possible that she might get some new moves (light arrows), or have the current ones reworked (which is likely), but where do you get the idea that Brawl will come with a whole new Zelda?
2) At most, Sheik takes up ONE of Zelda's moves. Zelda could be given a whole new moveset with and still have room to donate a move to transformation. This is of course assuming that transformation is still done via the B moves. Who knows, in Brawl they might switch it to something more unobtrusive, like the D-pad.


And why would seeing TP Zelda becoming Sheik be wierd? There is very little difference between the two Zelda's, the TP look being little more than a refinement of the Oot look.
And just because the Zelda in Brawl will look like she does in TP is no reason to assume that she's the same Zelda as the one in TP. In Brawl there won't be a 100 year gap between Zelda and Sheik.

 

[Stryks]

Dude she will look like TP zelda for a reason, Link has the TP look in brawl, and if u check his spin attack, it no longer has the magic-gold-ring thing when performing the attack, cause in TP, he doesnt have magic to use with the spin attack, ganondorf as well will have the TP look and not to mention he will have the sword of sages to have a new moveset, being his primary weapon in TP, zelda will too have her TP look, thus be TP zelda and not OoT zelda, she will also probably have that sword u seen her use when u fight her/cinemas in the game/official art, and use magic with it, to make a totally new zelda, seeing how sheik may not return, to make her more balanced of the lost of her transformation...

Obviosuly if zelda looks like zelda from TP, then shes IS zelda from TP, so is link, and so will ganondorf with the TP he will eventually have...

Whatever happens in smash wont affect the series the charcters come from, but what ever happens in the series will affect smash, Zelda DOESNT transform at all in TP, why would we add zeldas alter ego from a game that was released 10 years ago, in which the timeline in the game, the character is the alter ego of zelda from 100 years ago, and not the current zelda from TP? Its the same story with Y. link, they wont add the Y. link from OoT, since not only will they probably add character from TP and not from previous installments in the series, but there is no Y. Link in TP, thus if we put TP link and Y. Link from OoT, would seem pointless, thus they should remove y. link or add WW link, which is Y.link but in a whole diferent way...

 

[Kirye]

Dude she will look like TP zelda for a reason, Link has the TP look in brawl, and if u check his spin attack, it no longer has the magic-gold-ring thing when performing the attack, cause in TP, he doesnt have magic to use with the spin attack, ganondorf as well will have the TP look and not to mention he will have the sword of sages to have a new moveset, being his primary weapon in TP, zelda will too have her TP look, thus be TP zelda and not OoT zelda, she will also probably have that sword u seen her use when u fight her/cinemas in the game/official art, and use magic with it, to make a totally new zelda, seeing how sheik may not return, to make her more balanced of the lost of her transformation...

I gotta ask though, where in the hell are you getting this information, pulling it out of your *** as you go? Let's continue. But here's a question for you, WHY do you want Sheik out of Brawl? You know as well as everyone here that she has as many chances to be in as she does not to be in, yet you persist, why? You would rather see Zelda with a rapier? Because I honestly can't see that. What Smash bros is about, is mixing together the many games the characters have been in, and taking their skills from there. So why is it that Zelda will only have moves from TP and nothing else? Unless you can prove me wrong, Mario hasn't necessarily used his cape in a long time, but he still has it. All Zelda has done in the past few Zelda games is shoot light arrows, in both WW and TP, so I can maybe see her gaining a Bow in her skill list, but why take away Sheik? That's one of her many abilities she's acquired through the Zelda series. Just because Link's up B looks different doesn't mean jack ****.

Obviosuly if zelda looks like zelda from TP, then shes IS zelda from TP, so is link, and so will ganondorf with the TP he will eventually have...

Forreal? Does that mean that because Mario looks like his Mario Galaxy look, he's gonna have only abilities that refer to Galaxy and nothing else? =O Now, if he does have his Cape, Up B jump attack, Fireball, and Twister in Galaxy (I know he has a variation of the Twister), then alright, i've been proven wrong, but otherwise this claim is wrong.

Whatever happens in smash wont affect the series the charcters come from, but what ever happens in the series will affect smash, Zelda DOESNT transform at all in TP, why would we add zeldas alter ego from a game that was released 10 years ago, in which the timeline in the game, the character is the alter ego of zelda from 100 years ago, and not the current zelda from TP? Its the same story with Y. link, they wont add the Y. link from OoT, since not only will they probably add character from TP and not from previous installments in the series, but there is no Y. Link in TP, thus if we put TP link and Y. Link from OoT, would seem pointless, thus they should remove y. link or add WW link, which is Y.link but in a whole diferent way...

Because it's one of her MANY ABILITIES SHE'S GAINED IN THE ZELDA FRANCHISE! Just making her be Twilight Princess Zelda is stupid, chances are she's still gonna have some of her abilities from Melee, which were derrived from Ocarina of Time, so how would that not include Sheik, which was one of her biggest abilities and a cornerstone of importance in Ocarina of Time? Oh and btw, if they add a young link, it'll probably be a new kid with skills derrived from Wind Waker, Minish Cap, and the not yet released Phantom Hourglass.

 

[OysterMeister]

Yeah, what Kirye said. What Kirye said a lot.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I gotta ask though, where in the hell are you getting this information, pulling it out of your *** as you go? Let's continue. But here's a question for you, WHY do you want Sheik out of Brawl? You know as well as everyone here that she has as many chances to be in as she does not to be in, yet you persist, why? You would rather see Zelda with a rapier? Because I honestly can't see that. What Smash bros is about, is mixing together the many games the characters have been in, and taking their skills from there. So why is it that Zelda will only have moves from TP and nothing else? Unless you can prove me wrong, Mario hasn't necessarily used his cape in a long time, but he still has it. All Zelda has done in the past few Zelda games is shoot light arrows, in both WW and TP, so I can maybe see her gaining a Bow in her skill list, but why take away Sheik? That's one of her many abilities she's acquired through the Zelda series. Just because Link's up B looks different doesn't mean jack ****.



Forreal? Does that mean that because Mario looks like his Mario Galaxy look, he's gonna have only abilities that refer to Galaxy and nothing else? =O Now, if he does have his Cape, Up B jump attack, Fireball, and Twister in Galaxy (I know he has a variation of the Twister), then alright, i've been proven wrong, but otherwise this claim is wrong.



Because it's one of her MANY ABILITIES SHE'S GAINED IN THE ZELDA FRANCHISE! Just making her be Twilight Princess Zelda is stupid, chances are she's still gonna have some of her abilities from Melee, which were derrived from Ocarina of Time, so how would that not include Sheik, which was one of her biggest abilities and a cornerstone of importance in Ocarina of Time? Oh and btw, if they add a young link, it'll probably be a new kid with skills derrived from Wind Waker, Minish Cap, and the not yet released Phantom Hourglass.

Thank you.That's exactly what i'm talking about.Smash Bros. isn't affected by the most current games.

Smash doesn't make sense,and it shouldn't make sense.

 

[Stryks]

Ok done playing CS, and heres my opinion...

I gotta ask though, where in the hell are you getting this information, pulling it out of your *** as you go? Let's continue. But here's a question for you, WHY do you want Sheik out of Brawl? You know as well as everyone here that she has as many chances to be in as she does not to be in, yet you persist, why? You would rather see Zelda with a rapier? Because I honestly can't see that. What Smash bros is about, is mixing together the many games the characters have been in, and taking their skills from there. So why is it that Zelda will only have moves from TP and nothing else? Unless you can prove me wrong, Mario hasn't necessarily used his cape in a long time, but he still has it. All Zelda has done in the past few Zelda games is shoot light arrows, in both WW and TP, so I can maybe see her gaining a Bow in her skill list, but why take away Sheik? That's one of her many abilities she's acquired through the Zelda series. Just because Link's up B looks different doesn't mean jack ****.

U know theres a reason why in my post I put "Probably" and "may", seeing how she COULD have a new moveset and sheik MAY not return...
What ur sayin about mario cant be compared with zelda, seing how in all of the games, mario has always been the same person, unless I missed something were they said mario reincarnated in anothe plumer every game or so, then ok I would be wrong, but zelda from TP, AINT zelda from OoT, they have the same name, look, theyre both princess of the same land, but TP zelda is a 100 year reincarnation if U will of the OoT zelda, just like WW zelda is a reincarnation of both TP and OoT, unless all 3 of them are the SAME zelda, which I doubt, cause both TP and WW zelda would have over 100 years, thus would be incredibly old and have wrinkles and all of that stuff, so saying that TP Zelda should transform into Sheik is like saying cranky kong or Peppy (if theyre added in smash which I doubt) should be able to transform into theyre younger selfs so they can kick *** more, its a bad example but u get the idea...

Forreal? Does that mean that because Mario looks like his Mario Galaxy look, he's gonna have only abilities that refer to Galaxy and nothing else? =O Now, if he does have his Cape, Up B jump attack, Fireball, and Twister in Galaxy (I know he has a variation of the Twister), then alright, i've been proven wrong, but otherwise this claim is wrong.

Forreal, but what I said about mario in the uper part pretty much explains all...

Because it's one of her MANY ABILITIES SHE'S GAINED IN THE ZELDA FRANCHISE! Just making her be Twilight Princess Zelda is stupid, chances are she's still gonna have some of her abilities from Melee, which were derrived from Ocarina of Time, so how would that not include Sheik, which was one of her biggest abilities and a cornerstone of importance in Ocarina of Time? Oh and btw, if they add a young link, it'll probably be a new kid with skills derrived from Wind Waker, Minish Cap, and the not yet released Phantom Hourglass.

One of her main abilities in OoT, not TP, undertsnad that theyre not the same person, unlike mario who is the same person since super mario bros to all the way to mario galaxy, the zelda in OoT, TP AND WW are NOT the same zelda, even tough having the same name, look, status whatever, theyre mor elike reincarnations or something, giving an ability to a character she didnt actually used in the game is pointless, zelda only transformed into sheik in OoT, yes she will probably have some abilities like in Melee, seeing how in OoT, TP and I believe WW (didnt passed the game when I borrowed it) used magic, the A moves will probably stay the same, the B moves will PROBABLY change, I pretty much see the UpB staying the same, maybe with another name?, and U said it urself:

so how would that not include Sheik, which was one of her biggest abilities and a cornerstone of importance in Ocarina of Time?

Yep a very important ability of zelda... in OoT, seeing how she DIDNT transform into sheik in TP, and seeing how OoT and Tp zelda's are not the same person, no she will probably not transform into sheik, im pretty sure sheik is pretty much gone...
And I agree on the Y.link part tough...

 

[Eight Sage]

With a LOT of WW and TP characters to be made, Sheik will no pass SSBM.

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

ahhh stryks... i can't let you go on like that...
it doesn't matter if link is always reincarnated. this is SSB. it's not canon with LoZ. even if something is reincarnated, its still the same person anyway. when something is reincarnated, its just put it in a different time and given different memorys. its still the same person. why do you think link wears the same tunic in every game and looks exactly the same as the previous link? anyway, like link is destined to wear the same tunic, use the same sword and be the hero in every game while ganon is destined to always be evil and wear the same outfit, zelda is developing a destined alter ego. its just as much a part of her character as link's tunic is to him.

 

[Kirye]

U know theres a reason why in my post I put "Probably" and "may", seeing how she COULD have a new moveset and sheik MAY not return...

Response:

Zelda wil lget the light of arrows, seeing how she used them in both WW AND TP, the triangle attack from TP, and many others, Zelda will eventually get her TP look, and seeing TP zelda transform into Sheik, seeing how sheik is zelda from 100 years, seems rather pointless

That didn't sound like an incinuation, it sounded like you knew what she was gonna have. =P

What ur sayin about mario cant be compared with zelda, seing how in all of the games, mario has always been the same person, unless I missed something were they said mario reincarnated in anothe plumer every game or so, then ok I would be wrong, but zelda from TP, AINT zelda from OoT, they have the same name, look, theyre both princess of the same land, but TP zelda is a 100 year reincarnation if U will of the OoT zelda, just like WW zelda is a reincarnation of both TP and OoT, unless all 3 of them are the SAME zelda, which I doubt, cause both TP and WW zelda would have over 100 years, thus would be incredibly old and have wrinkles and all of that stuff, so saying that TP Zelda should transform into Sheik is like saying cranky kong or Peppy (if theyre added in smash which I doubt) should be able to transform into theyre younger selfs so they can kick *** more, its a bad example but u get the idea...

Ah, a different character from a different time, but still the same person. Be it a descendant, or whatever you wanna call it, it's still Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf isn't it? Smash bros represents the character in general, not the character from this or that generation. They're just fighting characters, in a fighting game, besides them screaming "Hyah!" when they attack, they're just fighters, not part of their stories, they have no real life to them. By the way, you didn't have to go into the ENTIRE detail involving age, I know how aging works, i'm not stupid kid. >.>

Forreal, but what I said about mario in the uper part pretty much explains all...

No.. Not really. What I meant is that they get their skills from a mass of all their games combined, my point had nothing to do with how old any of them would be.

One of her main abilities in OoT, not TP, undertsnad that theyre not the same person, unlike mario who is the same person since super mario bros to all the way to mario galaxy, the zelda in OoT, TP AND WW are NOT the same zelda, even tough having the same name, look, status whatever, theyre mor elike reincarnations or something, giving an ability to a character she didnt actually used in the game is pointless

There is such thing as periods, use them in between sentences please. Now then, again, and? So you're saying Brawl will have no skills relating to what she was given in Melee, which was derrived from OoT? It doesn't matter if it's not the same Zelda, it's still a character named Zelda, of which if she's in Brawl, will also have skills derriving from OoT, WW and TP for variety, and Sheik would add to that. Their historical backgrounds don't matter one bit in a fighting game is what you can't seem to get through your skull.

zelda only transformed into sheik in OoT, yes she will probably have some abilities like in Melee, seeing how in OoT, TP and I believe WW (didnt passed the game when I borrowed it) used magic, the A moves will probably stay the same, the B moves will PROBABLY change, I pretty much see the UpB staying the same, maybe with another name?, and U said it urself:

You don't know that the B moves will change, is the thing. So far from what i've seen, the characters returning from Melee have 'pretty much' the same B skills, so why is Zelda any different? She's not, it doesn't matter if Twilight Princess Zelda didn't transform into Sheik if the introduction to Zelda in Melee was to present her as two sides, showing her abilities, and magic that allows her to transform into a Sheikah. Twilight Princess has NO, and I repeat, NO REVELANCE to Smash bros, it's a fighting game for christs sake. You can stop repeating yourself about Sheik not being in TP, i'm not replying to it anymore, it's monotonous.

Yep a very important ability of zelda... in OoT, seeing how she DIDNT transform into sheik in TP, and seeing how OoT and Tp zelda's are not the same person, no she will probably not transform into sheik, im pretty sure sheik is pretty much gone...

She didn't transform to Sheik in TP because there'd be no surprise there, we already know she's Sheik. In Smash bros however, it's considered a formidable fighter along with one of her abilities. I'm pretty sure she has a higher chance to return than you give her credit for.

 

[xianfeng]

Samus already has a transformation, Shiek is no longer neccesary, plus we all know that Zelda will be in her TP incarnation. TP Zelda transforming into shiek is the exact same as WW Link transforming into Wolf Link. They are different characters.

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

TP Zelda transforming into shiek is the exact same as WW Link transforming into Wolf Link. They are different characters.

TP Zelda transforming into shiek is the exact same as OoT Link using the boomerang. They are the same character in SSB.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Samus already has a transformation, Shiek is no longer neccesary, plus we all know that Zelda will be in her TP incarnation. TP Zelda transforming into shiek is the exact same as WW Link transforming into Wolf Link. They are different characters.

Once again,must i say that you are assuming things alittle too far?

We don't actually know if samus is having a transformation esque character design,Sakurai only gave hints towards it being a possibility(In other words,he wanted us to use our imaginations).

What makes you say that Shiek is not necessary? Is it that same old assumption about the similarities between the character concepts?It couldn't be because WE HAVE NOT SEEN ALL OF HER MOVES!!

And even if they happen share a similar moveset,why wouldn't she still be in the game?Unless there aren't going to be any clones in the game,which is highly improbable.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Okay let's get this straight... Zelda got all her current moves from OoT... Most of them which she never used herself, only Sheik was one of her "real" abilities. But now, after WW and TP Zelda has evolved as a character. She isn't the captive princess anymore, and she helps Link fighting Ganondorf in 2 games. And seeing she's got alot of her OWN moves in TP, why keep the older ones she never used??

We all know for sure that Ganondorf will get a new moveset, probarly based on TP. Why can't they do the same with Zelda? Because she wasn't a clone? You see, it doesn't mather how Link changes with his TP look, because Link always has the same role, moves and items in the Zelda games... He always will have the Spin Attack, a Bow, Bombs and a Boomerang of some sort, so his moveset won't need much changing... Zelda and Ganondorf are diffrent.

Yes, Sheik was one of Zelda's biggest abilities in Ocarina of Time. However, the character Zelda has evolved... Sheik was just one thing Zelda did in one game... You can compare Sheik to characters as Impa, Darunia, Saria, Zant and Link's grandmother, just characters which appeared once, and probarly never will return.

Sheik was only in Melee, because it was Zelda's biggest ability in the game she was based off; OoT... Which is proven, cause all Zelda's B moves come from Ocarina of Time. But in current games, Zelda has evolved and thus she needs a new moveset... Sheik would only get in Zelda's way of her evolution as a character, because Sheik still represents the captive princess who had to disguise herself.

Also, it's confirmed that characters will be cut... So there WILL be disapointed fans! No mather how you look at it, even Pichu has his small fangroup. Dr.Mario is also more populair in Melee than Mario... So you bet people will be disapointed too if he's cut. Sheik is a very populair character yes, but since they are already cutting characters this is a good oppertunity to cut out useles characters...

And as I said before, Sheik should be cutted above characters as the Ice Climbers (who also starred in just one game) because Sheik is a character from the Zelda franchise, which is known for their CHANGES. Zelda already has alot of representation, but unlike the Mario franchise, it also has alot of potential fighters as Midna and Zant. And no mather how you look at it, Sheik still is a wasted character spot, and would only take away a slot for a more deserving character.

 

[sheikattack]

Very nice post Diddy, I certainly see where you are coming from with your arguement.


With Sheik being my favorite character from Melee, this is tough for me to say: I do not expect Sheik to be in Brawl. The problem is that OoT is now about a decade old, and it is liekly that Nintendo will want to promote Twilight Princess rather than have a blast from the past with Sheik.

That being said, Sheik is undoubtedly one of the top characters in Melee (the actual spot is debatable) and for that reason they may need to put Sheik back in Brawl. OoT is the best Nintendo game of all time...

Still, if Sheik is back, she will be her own character, not a transformation of Zelda. I would easily place money on that. Zelda deserves to have some new moves (and some people playing her, for that matter).

Giving her a "brawlish look" wouldn't be a problem. I certainly hope it happens, but if not, I won't be surprised.





Watch out! It's a...
SHEIKATTACK

 

[OysterMeister]

Okay let's get this straight... Zelda got all her current moves from OoT... Most of them which she never used herself, only Sheik was one of her "real" abilities. But now, after WW and TP Zelda has evolved as a character. She isn't the captive princess anymore, and she helps Link fighting Ganondorf in 2 games. And seeing she's got alot of her OWN moves in TP, why keep the older ones she never used??

Zelda uses Dins fire, nayrus love, and farores wind because she's a magic user, and those three moves are the closest the Legend of Zelda series has ever come to unique spells of it's own. It would be easy to give Zelda magic, but giving her magic that deffinatively represents the LoZ series... well, that limits the list quite a bit. Thus, Zelda weilds the three goddess spells in melee, and might very likely keep them in brawl. Most likey, her powers revealed in TP will go to augment and strengthen her current move list, not replace it.

And I would argue that Sheik is in fact the ORIGIN of Zeldas new role in throwing off the captive princess. What could be more subversive to her captors than escaping inprisonment to aid the hero? And unless I'm very much mistaken, wasn't Zelda confined to her castle at the start of TP, and captured by Ganondorf midway through WW? She's still very much a captive, she's just no longer submissive about it. Starting with Sheik in Oot, Zelda became the captive who fought back.

We all know for sure that Ganondorf will get a new moveset, probarly based on TP. Why can't they do the same with Zelda? Because she wasn't a clone? You see, it doesn't mather how Link changes with his TP look, because Link always has the same role, moves and items in the Zelda games... He always will have the Spin Attack, a Bow, Bombs and a Boomerang of some sort, so his moveset won't need much changing... Zelda and Ganondorf are diffrent.

Yes, Zelda and Ganondorf are diferent. Ganondorf will not be getting a NEW moveset because he's a clone in melee, he'll be gitting HIS OWN moveset because he was a clone in melee. Ganondorf never had his own unique moveset, so if he gets one now, it'll be his FIRST real moveset, the one he should've had in melee. If Zelda gets a new moveset, it'd be a SECOND moveset, which is different. No non-clone character has ever been revamped in the way you're suggesting. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying that you can't point to any other character as an example to go by. Suggesting something like this puts you in unexplored, unproven territory.

Yes, Sheik was one of Zelda's biggest abilities in Ocarina of Time. However, the character Zelda has evolved... Sheik was just one thing Zelda did in one game... You can compare Sheik to characters as Impa, Darunia, Saria, Zant and Link's grandmother, just characters which appeared once, and probarly never will return.

Sheik was only in Melee, because it was Zelda's biggest ability in the game she was based off; OoT... Which is proven, cause all Zelda's B moves come from Ocarina of Time. But in current games, Zelda has evolved and thus she needs a new moveset... Sheik would only get in Zelda's way of her evolution as a character, because Sheik still represents the captive princess who had to disguise herself.

I don't think she does. As I said earlier, I believe Sheik to be the first real example of the 'new' Zelda that we have seen. Which would mean that not only is Sheik an important ability of Zeldas, Sheik is also a classic example, a living personification, of the new, more evolved character of princess Zelda.

Also, it's confirmed that characters will be cut... So there WILL be disapointed fans! No mather how you look at it, even Pichu has his small fangroup. Dr.Mario is also more populair in Melee than Mario... So you bet people will be disapointed too if he's cut. Sheik is a very populair character yes, but since they are already cutting characters this is a good oppertunity to cut out useles characters...

And as I said before, Sheik should be cutted above characters as the Ice Climbers (who also starred in just one game) because Sheik is a character from the Zelda franchise, which is known for their CHANGES. Zelda already has alot of representation, but unlike the Mario franchise, it also has alot of potential fighters as Midna and Zant. And no mather how you look at it, Sheik still is a wasted character spot, and would only take away a slot for a more deserving character.

Um, no. Just looking at the game of smash bros, you can't say that Sheik is useless because she has a unique moveset. Only the clones have that kind of redundancy in both gameplay and story that really allows them to be cut, and even then not many of them. I'm thinking that when Sakurai said some characters wouldn't return, he meant Dr. Mario and other such clones who are both frighteningly similar to their originals and who also have little to no story behind them.

And why would you choose to cut SHEIK so you could replace them with MIDNA or, even worse, ZANT!? Now those guys are characters who'll never return, so why would you waste character slots on the fleeting present in a game which is supposed to be about nintendo history?
As, I've said before, Sheik is not only Zelda's best ability, but it's also one with the most historical punch, being the first real example of Zelda asserting herself.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

Considering how as soon as Zelda got captured as soon as she revealed she was Sheik, I'd still say she was still the typical damsel in distress in OoT. And Sheik never actually did any fighting as opposed to WW and TP Zelda, who actually aided Link during the final battle, whereas OoT Zelda cheered from the sidelines and only stepped in once Link had practically beaten Gannon into submission.

As for Zelda's moveset, at the time of Melee they didn't have anything to work off besides Sheik, so they gave her Links spells because she was a sage. Now the series has given Zelda more of an active role, there are new abilities that can be given to her (I still think the light arrows have a chance as she's used them twice now). Personally, I'd like Zelda to remain more mage like as she was in melee rather than give her the sword, but she could pull it out for a couple of attacks. However, Sheik is only one move, so even if they keep Zelda relatively the same, they can still replace her \/B move with something should they desire to take Sheik out.

As for Midna and Zant, seeing as they both play more important roles in their respective game than Sheik ever did, they definitely have a chance if Sheik made it in the game. And Smash isn't just centered around Nintendo history, otherwise Roy wouldn't have made it into Melee. I also don't see how just because Midna and Zant are in a present game means they are less deserving than the Sheik, whose already had her time in the sun and if it hadn't been for melee would've probably been forgotten by now. If they are popular and interesting characters it shouldn't matter if they are new or if they are 'historic'.

 

[OysterMeister]

You're right, LukeFonFabre, it shouldn't matter if a character is historic or not... unless of course you suggest that a popular and interesting character should be cut from the game because they are no longer current, which is what people are suggesting they do with Sheik. If that's the case, then I'd rather not see characters get in just to have their "moment in the sun". I want to know that the character I play now has a good chance of returning in the next edition, and adding a whole slew of one-shot characters wouldn't really allow for that.


And you're really shorthanding Sheik here. C'mon, give credit where it's due. Yes Zelda was re-captured as soon as her Sheik disguise fell through, but the same thing happened in WW as soon as Tetra was revealed to be Zelda, remember? And it's also true that Zelda didn't do much to help in the final battle of Oot, but she DID help, didn't she? That's more than she'd EVER done before. And if you really look at it, yes, it's true that Zelda was a lot more helpful in WW, but everything she did there was really just an extension of what she started doing in Oot.
In Oot Zelda began to change into the princess we now know her to be. Yes, her efforts pale in comparison to what she did later, but that's just the way character evolution works. Zelda had to start the changes somewhere, and she did that in Oot, with Sheik.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

The fact is, characters aren't returning. It'd be great if they all were returning, but unfortunately that's not the case. Sheik really holds little importance to the Zelda series as a whole compared to Midna (and Zant to some extent), and if she has to leave in order for her (or another character in the series like Skull Kid or Vaati), then so be it. I'm not saying that Sheik should get the cut because she was a one time thing, but maybe that she should step down for another deserving character. And I personally think Sheik is really only popular because of how she is in melee, and if she wasn't in melee I highly doubt people would be arguing for her inclusion in Brawl (though that said there are people arguing FD link for brawl >.<)

I'll admit, OoT did start to break the mold with Zelda by making her do something more than being the captive princess, but WW was really the game that hammered in that active role she has now. Though I personally was a bit miffed that Sheik revealed herself to be Zelda and was pretty much instantly encased in a crystal. At least there was a bit of time between Zelda's revelation and being kidnapped in WW, and it didn't happen right in front of your eyes, but hey, what are you gonna do.

Also, I'm not saying that Sheik should be taken out (if it seems that way, I apologize), but that if it happens then I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[OysterMeister]

Yes, some characters will be cut, this is well known, but why do people insist on starting these cuts at the top with are most unique characters. As soon as it was announced that some wouldn't return, people were assuming that the ice climbers or Game and watch had to go. Now Sheik has also made that list, but are these really the redundant characters from melee?
The answer is no.
Look at it from a developers standpoint: You've got Sheik and the others on the one hand, and Dr. Mario and his ilk on the other. One group of characters each have a unique moveset, and their addition to the previous game was detirmined early in the development cycle. While on the other hand, you have characters whos movesets are literaly modifications of other, existing movesets. Some of these characters you know for a fact were added just because it was possible to add them, and these were last minute additions at that.
Now, you know you have to cut characters to streamline the development process, since you don't want to waste precious development time on redundant characters, so who would you cut first?
The answer is that you'd start with the redundant clones. Your Dr. Marios and Pichus. And you might even stop there. After all, Sakurai didn't say there would be a lot of cuts, maybe he just meant Dr. Mario and Pichu. Heck, Maybe he only meant Dr. Mario.
My long, rambling point is that while cuts will be made, they'll more likely than not start with those characters who can be cut with the least amount of fuss. Yes, Dr. Mario has a fan base, me among them, but I think most of us could get over it, since there's always Mario to fall back on. A loss of Sheik would be much harder to shrug of, and would probably incur way more grumbling.



And I'd say that Sheik has far more importance to the Legend of Zelda series than either Midna or Zant, because Sheik is representative of a change in Zelda which started in Oot, whereas Midna or Zant were nothing more than plot devices in TP. It's the same reason why the wind fish isn't considered important to the Legend of Zelda series. It was a driving force within its own game, yeah, but aside from that it's done nothing for the seies as a whole. Sheik has done something for the series as a whole.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

Of course Dr. Mario and Pichu will be the first to be cut off, as well as Roy and Y.Link most likely. But we don't know how many characters meant when Sakurai said when some characters won't be returning, though I think something was said about characters being changed on a significant scale, though I can't say we've seen a lot of that with the confirmed characters. Yes, it may just be some of the clones, but I think there's a chance it could be more than that. Personally, I think outside the clones, Sheik would probably be the first to go. In fact, I think I'd be arrogant enough to say that she'll be cut before Gannondorf (though as Gannondorf will more than likely get a brand new moveset, it'd probably be like a new character addition)

I guess this is just personal opinion on each of our behalves, but I'd still say Midna has more overall importance to the series than Sheik, but that's because I don't really see her as anything more than an alter ego for Zelda that allowed her to interact with Link (she's not really even unique in that sense). Midna actually fought alongside Link to some extent throughout his adventure, and while is a helper like Navi, Tatl, The King of Red Lions and Ezlo, she actually had a very active role compared to the others. Zant I can't really argue as he was the minor villain in TP, so I'd agree that Sheik holds more importance overall than him.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

A couple of things:

1st,Smash=Not based on canon franchises.

2nd,Smash= game that doesn't reflect on current canon franchises.


I can't see why people assume what characers are getting in because the characters have updated looks.reflecting upon this isn't the most wise thing to do,especially in the current level of development.

A few updated looks mean nothing,it is a meer reflection of the canon franichises,yet bares doesn't any resemblance to it or renders any part of a franchise.

And one last thing...Mario's outfit IS NOT based of his galaxy outfit.

 

[The_Corax_King]

Ok... you have convinced me... since brawl will ONLY hold newer characters and TOTALLY updated versions of those characters, shiek has no chance...

I guess only the most modern characters have a chance... (good bye to half the SSB roster)

 

[Sheik_the_Geek]

If Sheik is gone...you will see a grown man cry...for an hour...then take up zero suit samus

 

[xianfeng]

Having TP Zelda (which is what Zelda will be) transform into shiek is the exact same as having mario transform into yoshi. Only OoT Zelda can transform into Shiek, no one else.