Will Shiek Return?

[Smooth Criminal]

Stupid Wii. It hates long quotes. Regradless, it's fixed now.

And Fox and Marth, while still cheap, require at least some skill. Sheik doesn't. If you play as her, you should be ashamed.

no you should be ashmed that you cant win
and i use roy and marth,but mostly roy

No offense, Wiseguy, but Koarin actually has a point here. You act like Sheik is as unbeatable as, say, Justice from Guilty Gear X2: The Midnight Carnival (and believe me, Justice is so bad that she is banned from freakin' tourneys). I totally agree with some of the points you made about Sheik not returning; the character is gone, ka-put, thrown to the wayside. She is freakin' useless as far as canon and the like is concerned. However, I sorely disagree with the fact that Sheik is so horrendously broken that she is irredeemable. Sure, she has a lot of cheap moves that outprioritize most other character's attacks, but God. Her metagame is predictable and she can be easily punished by somebody who knows what they're doing.

I main Sheik and I don't win them all. Some really good Marios and even a freakin' Roy butchered my *** because they knew what they were doing and how to go about playing Sheik. N00bs aren't guaranteed a win just because they spam tilts all day. Trust me.

Don't flame me, boss. I'm just trying to give you a different perspective, from somebody who plays as the character frequently.

Smooth Criminal

 

[elev135]

i think zsamus will resemble sheik. we can see her doing sheiks dtilt, ftilt and dsmash in the 2nd trailer

 

[Fawriel]

Smooth Criminal, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that ( no offense ) Wiseguy is more of a casual player than a professional. At least that's the impression I get, no harm intended. On a professional level, Sheik has been found to have characters above her, but at lower levels, it really is ridiculous how quickly she attacks. If my father, the worst player on earth, can make me lose with a character ( in handicap-matches, mind you ), chances are they're broken unless you DO know what you're doing. Not sure whether handicap raises priority as well, but Sheik's frikkin AAAAAAAA attack thing clanked with Young Link's ftilt. What the heck? Not to mention that when that happens, Sheik has already started her dash-attack before YL can even get to his feet for some reason.
Point is, Wiseguy's exaggerating, someone like DieSuperFly is definitely not a bad player, but for those below professional level, Sheik is the easy way.

EDIT: Man. After midnight condition, eloquence -5.
Feel free to ignore this post.

 

[Stryks]

Sheik aint invincible, bust she is more broken than the olf vase I broke the other day (dont ask), I used her once, and I saw thats she can combo way too easy, u need absolute skill and u can easily take down a semi-pro smasher, I falled in the hands of a sheik player saturday in a tourney, needless to say I got my *** handed to me...

I have mention why sheik wont return in da past, and im still sticking with it, zamus is considered the replacement, but im bettin she wont be broken, all sheik players should be ashemed really, i admit, I have NEVER liked using high-top tiers, thats why I pick mid tiers, thus why I use mario and ganondorf, I rather be considered a good player than a "he uses a broken character thats why he wins so much" player...

 

[Wrath`]

There will always be unfair charac ters,no matter what

 

[Obikun]

There will always be unfair charac ters,no matter what

The thing with Shiek is that he (or she, I'm confused) is a character that is very easy to use and sometimes, when you go to a tournament with another character (example, mario or roy), you end up losing to some noob who uses shiek, even though he doesn't know how to wavedash or cancel. It has happen to me quite a few times and it sucks A LOT. Thats why I started using fox. Somehow, I finally was able to defeated them with the shine-grab or shine-upsmash move of fox. It's weird but it works.

Any idea on other characters that work well againts Shiek?

 

[Numa Dude]

you can't avoid unfair characters in fighting games but the question is how unfair will they be.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Woot! The Sheik-Must-Die Club has its first new member! Welcome aboard Fawriel! Anyone else?

Yes ME! And yeah, unfair characters will always excist but removing the most broken character from Melee would help alot. >_>

 

[Smady]

The SMD club? Hm...

 

[Wiseguy]

No offense, Wiseguy, but Koarin actually has a point here. You act like Sheik is as unbeatable as, say, Justice from Guilty Gear X2: The Midnight Carnival (and believe me, Justice is so bad that she is banned from freakin' tourneys). I totally agree with some of the points you made about Sheik not returning; the character is gone, ka-put, thrown to the wayside. She is freakin' useless as far as canon and the like is concerned. However, I sorely disagree with the fact that Sheik is so horrendously broken that she is irredeemable. Sure, she has a lot of cheap moves that outprioritize most other character's attacks, but God. Her metagame is predictable and she can be easily punished by somebody who knows what they're doing.

I main Sheik and I don't win them all. Some really good Marios and even a freakin' Roy butchered my *** because they knew what they were doing and how to go about playing Sheik. N00bs aren't guaranteed a win just because they spam tilts all day. Trust me.

Don't flame me, boss. I'm just trying to give you a different perspective, from somebody who plays as the character frequently.

Smooth Criminal

I'm not saying that its impossible to beat a Sheik, just that that user her gives any player an unfair advantage. To me, Sheik is worst offender when it comes to overpowered characters due to her extremely easy learning curve and ultra cheap combos. To me, Sheik hurts the entire game.

Smooth Criminal, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that ( no offense ) Wiseguy is more of a casual player than a professional. At least that's the impression I get, no harm intended. On a professional level, Sheik has been found to have characters above her, but at lower levels, it really is ridiculous how quickly she attacks. If my father, the worst player on earth, can make me lose with a character ( in handicap-matches, mind you ), chances are they're broken unless you DO know what you're doing. Not sure whether handicap raises priority as well, but Sheik's frikkin AAAAAAAA attack thing clanked with Young Link's ftilt. What the heck? Not to mention that when that happens, Sheik has already started her dash-attack before YL can even get to his feet for some reason.
Point is, Wiseguy's exaggerating, someone like DieSuperFly is definitely not a bad player, but for those below professional level, Sheik is the easy way.

EDIT: Man. After midnight condition, eloquence -5.
Feel free to ignore this post.

Am I a casual player? I guess its a matter of perspective. However, since I take the time to post here, I'd say my geeky obsession stacks up against anyone else's here.

Am I exagerating? Yeah, obviously - but only to get the point across about how annoying this character can be to none-Sheik players. He/she/it/potatoe makes it possible for someone to completely trounce an equally skilled player or beat a far more experienced player. That's just not right.

There will always be unfair charac ters,no matter what

Maybe, but I consider SSB 64 to be a far more balanced game (while Melee is superior in every other way). Sure, Fox had a slight edge - but I recall having competetive matches against Fox while playing as Donkey Kong. In Melee, that same match would be an excercise in futility. My point is, we shouldn't have to put up with characters as unbalanced as Sheik. I'd rather the Smash team put in the time and make the characters as equally balanced as possible.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Maybe, but I consider SSB 64 to be a far more balanced game (while Melee is superior in every other way). Sure, Fox had a slight edge - but I recall having competetive matches against Fox while playing as Donkey Kong. In Melee, that same match would be an excercise in futility. My point is, we shouldn't have to put up with characters as unbalanced as Sheik. I'd rather the Smash team put in the time and make the characters as equally balanced as possible.

Quoted for truth, Wiseguy.

I do agree that Sheik is horrendously out of balance in some areas and some things just need to be put aright (i.e. she really needs some laggy moves or something). She is stupidly simple to pick up, play, and be good with (a little complexity wouldn't have hurt here, either). However, I'm a firm proponent of player skill trumping character ability (at times, anyway; the example for SSB 64 and Melee that you cited here is pretty strong and I won't deny that fact. A really good Melee Fox player would have a much easier time demolishing Melee DK because of Melee DK's inherent disadvantages. I could whip up a dozen Sheik versus "this low-tier character" or even "low mid to high mid-tier" and come up with a host of pros and cons for each, but it is time consuming and speaks for itself in the end). If you can't beat me, then you can't be beat me---it doesn't necessarily entail that the character you're playing as sucks. It's just you're not up to snuff. That's just how I feel.

But I do appreciate your opinion on the matter, Wiseguy, because it is a valid and universal one shared by many Smashers abroad (plus, it's conveyed intelligently; I see that in a lot of your posts). I'm not here to contradict it, just to give you an idea of what goes through my head.

However, that's neither here nor there. Sheik ain't coming back for Brawl; she's had her place in Melee, PAL version or no, and that's where she's gonna stay.

I am pretty optimistic about Brawl being well-balanced. I'm sure there's going to be a couple of overpowered attributes to some characters, but time is on the side of Sakurai and Company. The third time's a charm, and I think we're not gonna be seeing any horrendous Sheik counterparts.

At least I hope.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Wiseguy]

Quoted for truth, Wiseguy.

I do agree that Sheik is horrendously out of balance in some areas and some things just need to be put aright (i.e. she really needs some laggy moves or something). She is stupidly simple to pick up, play, and be good with (a little complexity wouldn't have hurt here, either). However, I'm a firm proponent of player skill trumping character ability (at times, anyway; the example for SSB 64 and Melee that you cited here is pretty strong and I won't deny that fact. A really good Melee Fox player would have a much easier time demolishing Melee DK because of Melee DK's inherent disadvantages. I could whip up a dozen Sheik versus "this low-tier character" or even "low mid to high mid-tier" and come up with a host of pros and cons for each, but it is time consuming and speaks for itself in the end). If you can't beat me, then you can't be beat me---it doesn't necessarily entail that the character you're playing as sucks. It's just you're not up to snuff. That's just how I feel.

But I do appreciate your opinion on the matter, Wiseguy, because it is a valid and universal one shared by many Smashers abroad (plus, it's conveyed intelligently; I see that in a lot of your posts). I'm not here to contradict it, just to give you an idea of what goes through my head.

However, that's neither here nor there. Sheik ain't coming back for Brawl; she's had her place in Melee, PAL version or no, and that's where she's gonna stay.

I am pretty optimistic about Brawl being well-balanced. I'm sure there's going to be a couple of overpowered attributes to some characters, but time is on the side of Sakurai and Company. The third time's a charm, and I think we're not gonna be seeing any horrendous Sheik counterparts.

At least I hope.

Smooth Criminal

Well put, Smooth criminal.

Let me be clear, I have nothing against individuals who play as Sheik (sorry to The Wrath of Koarin for saying that he should be ashamed if he played as Sheik). More often than not, if a player beats you in a game its becuase they played better. Whining that you lost just because of their character choice just makes you look bad. I just wish that the game was more balanced, so that these kind of claims won't take place at all.

It's good to hear that others are as hopeful as I am that Brawl will be a more balanced game. If Sakurai can reproduce the depth of Melee and the balance of SSB 64, then Brawl will definitely be the greatest game ever.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yes Brawl would deffinatly be the greatest game ever if it where like that. But somehow I doubt it. I think the game will be as much balanced as Melee, since it'll have more characters. I'm guessing it'll be around 37~40 characters, so having it almost perfectly balanced as say SSB 64 is almost impossible.

Melee's top tier characters (or atleast the ones remaining ) will most likely be nerfed, just as in the PAL version and how Kirby, Ness and Pikachu got nerfed like hell from SSB64. We can asume we won't see SHLing or Waveshining in Brawl, but the likes of the Downsmash could stay...

I'm also hopeful for a balanced Brawl, but with adding more characters I also fear we'll still have range in powers. Maybe not as high as in Melee, but they WILL be there.

 

[AngelGod]

^^^ I second that...
Sheik will probably not return, u all know why, her chances are veyr slim...

Sorry if you feel that way, but I didn't write this to provoke anyone. I meant every word. Sheik needs to go - badly.

^^and I third it. time and time again people have been giving good valid reasons as to why shiek shouldnt and wont return.

Im a Shiek Main, and your words are an inspiration to my favorite character :D

Well my -favorite- character is falcon, but my best is shiek, I have a natural ability to play her. I will want to experiment with other characters in brawl (duh) but Id love to see shiek make a comeback, just leave zelda in the game with shiek transform ability... maybe make zelda not suck this time, who knows.

I agree with Dylan_Tnga shiek is a good character. And I too have a natural ability for playing shiek. But why does everyone want to get rid of her that badly I bet half of your butts would be wupped by someone who plays as Shiek. I bet I could.

 

[ylink_underestimted]

the rumor for Sheik and Ganon, well...is it really a rumor? i mean seriously, it was a real interview? and if Sheik returns, she might not be Zelda's v_B, which i wouldnt mind

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sheik could still be there somewhere without being playable. She could easly be Zelda's Final Smash or just an Assisst Throphy. Having a model doesn't say ****. Otherwise we would have K.Rool and other awesome Melee throphies playable in Melee but unfortunately they aren't. I'm still hoping for a Sheik-less Brawl.

 

[~Onslaught~]

sheik should return but its a mystrey......only nintendo knows

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

I'm sorry, but I have to laugh my *** off when people make these claims about Shiek being a popular character. Shiek DID NOTHING! Okay? Oh sure, she/he/it/potato taught you some songs in the game. THATS ABOUT IT! Sheik is as popular as a sack of doorknobs! The only reason people fight so hard to keep Shiek in the game is because any brain-dead moron with opposable thumbs can pick up Shiek and start trouncing people. Yeah, there are ways to combat Shiek....If you're not playing a lower-tier character!!

And yes, there will always be some degree of unfairness in fighting games, but Shiek takes that to a whole new level. Bah, I pray that Shiek will never see playable light of day again!!!

 

[tstumo]

I'm sorry, but I have to laugh my *** off when people make these claims about Shiek being a popular character. Shiek DID NOTHING! Okay? Oh sure, she/he/it/potato taught you some songs in the game. THATS ABOUT IT! Sheik is as popular as a sack of doorknobs! The only reason people fight so hard to keep Shiek in the game is because any brain-dead moron with opposable thumbs can pick up Shiek and start trouncing people. Yeah, there are ways to combat Shiek....If you're not playing a lower-tier character!!

And yes, there will always be some degree of unfairness in fighting games, but Shiek takes that to a whole new level. Bah, I pray that Shiek will never see playable light of day again!!!

lol that made me laugh so hard. but I agree with you. Shiek serves absolutley no purpose. and the fact that once again Shiek could overshadow Zelda (whom I thought was shafted in melee) would be the worse. I want to see Zelda be a stand alone fighter. not with the help from some overpowered man ninja. sorry i'll pass.

 

[Ban Heim]

The thing with Shiek is that he (or she, I'm confused) is a character that is very easy to use and sometimes, when you go to a tournament with another character (example, mario or roy), you end up losing to some noob who uses shiek, even though he doesn't know how to wavedash or cancel. It has happen to me quite a few times and it sucks A LOT. Thats why I started using fox. Somehow, I finally was able to defeated them with the shine-grab or shine-upsmash move of fox. It's weird but it works.

Any idea on other characters that work well againts Shiek?

You obviously weren't old enough to be playing games when the 64 came out. Either that or you were living under a rock. Sheik is Zelda in disguise. That's why Zelda (a girl) transforms into Sheik (also a girl). There's no sex change going on mid-transformation.

And if some noob that doesn't know how to WD or L-cancel beat you with Sheik, then it pretty much means you're a noob as well. There's no reason you should lose if you can L-cancel properly, especially with Mario. His SHFFLs should be more than enough to take out a noob Sheik, especially since if he is a noob, he's probably very predictable and can be comboed very easily.

I'm sorry, but I have to laugh my *** off when people make these claims about Shiek being a popular character. Shiek DID NOTHING! Okay? Oh sure, she/he/it/potato taught you some songs in the game. THATS ABOUT IT! Sheik is as popular as a sack of doorknobs! The only reason people fight so hard to keep Shiek in the game is because any brain-dead moron with opposable thumbs can pick up Shiek and start trouncing people. Yeah, there are ways to combat Shiek....If you're not playing a lower-tier character!!

And yes, there will always be some degree of unfairness in fighting games, but Shiek takes that to a whole new level. Bah, I pray that Shiek will never see playable light of day again!!!

I don't see why people want a character completely thrown out of the game just because it happens to be a powerful character. Even if she is too powerful, why not just nerf her down a bit but still keep her in the game? I mean, Fox and Falco **** me over harder than any Sheik could but I'd still like to see them back in the game. That's because I think that the more characters there are, the better Brawl will be, and because I want characters that can beat me so that I'm forced to get better and figure out how to beat them.

Sheik serving no "purpose" is a dumb argument to use for her not being in Brawl. When was the last time you saw Game and Watch, Ness, or Ice Climbers in a game? And guess what, they still made it into Melee. Pit hasn't been in a game in a long time but he's going to be in Brawl. Why should things be any different from Sheik? They shouldn't. She's from the one of the greatest Zelda games ever made.

Just because you get your *** handed to you by a noob that picks Sheik doesn't mean that it's the case with everyone else. While she is somewhat overpowered against certain characters, she can be beaten by others. That's just how things work in Smash.

Oh, and Sheik can be beaten by lower tier characters. Ice Climbers are a very good counterpick against Sheik.

 

[Jackal478]

Well. Zamus has Sheik written all over her.

Look at some of her moves.

I say no. As much as a cool character Sheik is

 

[Super Smash Master]

Sheik will be in Brawl. Everyone who says she will be cut has poor reasoning and is just upset that they get owned by people who play as her, because she is a good character. I say, get better at the game or stop *****ing.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

I don't see why people want a character completely thrown out of the game just because it happens to be a powerful character. Even if she is too powerful, why not just nerf her down a bit but still keep her in the game? I mean, Fox and Falco **** me over harder than any Sheik could but I'd still like to see them back in the game. That's because I think that the more characters there are, the better Brawl will be, and because I want characters that can beat me so that I'm forced to get better and figure out how to beat them.

Sheik serving no "purpose" is a dumb argument to use for her not being in Brawl. When was the last time you saw Game and Watch, Ness, or Ice Climbers in a game? And guess what, they still made it into Melee. Pit hasn't been in a game in a long time but he's going to be in Brawl. Why should things be any different from Sheik? They shouldn't. She's from the one of the greatest Zelda games ever made.

Just because you get your *** handed to you by a noob that picks Sheik doesn't mean that it's the case with everyone else. While she is somewhat overpowered against certain characters, she can be beaten by others. That's just how things work in Smash.

Oh, and Sheik can be beaten by lower tier characters. Ice Climbers are a very good counterpick against Sheik.

You know, just because you play competitively doesn't mean ALL of SmashBoards do. I play casually and admit it too. Shiek is totally unfair and not fun in casual play. It's arrogant assuming *******s like you that really get me pissed off at Tourney players (now to go to another thread with Tourney players I like so I can counter the being pissed off.)

Why do Mr. Game and Watch, Ness or Ice Climbers appear in SSBM? They're classics. Old School. What's Sheik? A one shot, flash in the pan character that did jack ****. Totally worthless in terms of character. And some stupid ninja transformation shouldn't overshadow one of the main long standing characters i.e. Zelda.

God I hate Sheik SOOO MUCH.

 

[Fawriel]

Sheik will be in Brawl. Everyone who says she will be cut has poor reasoning and is just upset that they get owned by people who play as her, because she is a good character. I say, get better at the game or stop *****ing.

Dang, I got owned. I apparently have poor reasoning and I'm just upset that I get owned by people who play as ... wait, I never got owned by anyone. *scowls*

Hell, there are people who PLAY as Sheik who don't want her to return, and people who play as her and don't think she will return.

Stop generalizing, people. Generalizing is always wrong*, as paradoxical as it sounds.


*does not include mathematics

 

[Takeshi245]

Has anyone mentioned the character designs for Ganondorf and Shiek have been given to Sakurai to give them a different look in Brawl? Orge Deity Link, I told you about this a couple weeks ago.

 

[Littleonetwo]

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200708/N07.0802.1741.54921.htm

theres the official interview where he talks about it... its towards the bottom.

and i dont think sheik should be cut because she was a lil strong in the last game, i mean come on whats wrong with balancing, look at kirby from SB64 compared to melee theres a huge difference, they could easily fix her.

 

[OnyxVulpine]

http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200708/N07.0802.1741.54921.htm

theres the official interview where he talks about it... its towards the bottom.

and i dont think sheik should be cut because she was a lil strong in the last game, i mean come on whats wrong with balancing, look at kirby from SB64 compared to melee theres a huge difference, they could easily fix her.

Well still, it doesn't confirm Sheik as they could still deny her being in the game.

But it does raise her chances quite a bit...

I also don't like the idea of Zamus being the new Sheik and thats the reason they will get rid of her. Sheik was the original alter character, you can't just get rid of her! (lol...) I guess its similar to saying... Since they will put Luigi in the game, he will replace Mario since he is basically the same thing..

Hm.. I might still use Zelda/Sheik but if Zelda is good enough and feels good without Sheik it won't matter that much. But it will still pain me to see a character that I used go away.

 

[OysterMeister]

I play casually and admit it too. Shiek is totally unfair and not fun in casual play.

You sure about that? Personaly, I've had great fun playing against Sheik during casual play. I've also had fun playing against Fox and Marth, as well. For that matter, I've had fun playing AS both Mewtwo and Bowser against both Marth and Sheik. It might be slightly harder to win with those odds, but to call it unfun or unfair is an extreme exaggeration.

Why do Mr. Game and Watch, Ness or Ice Climbers appear in SSBM? They're classics. Old School. What's Sheik? A one shot, flash in the pan character that did jack ****. Totally worthless in terms of character.

Isn't there a statute of limitation on how long a character can be considered old hat? Sheik is, what, nine years and two consol generations old, right? Isn't that pretty retro by now? And come on, Oot is pretty classic and old school; at the very least you have to admit that.

And some stupid ninja transformation shouldn't overshadow one of the main long standing characters i.e. Zelda.

God I hate Sheik SOOO MUCH.

I'm a pirates man myself, but even I'll admit that ninjas are cool. Sheik may be many things, but as a Ninja she's incapable of being stupid. And she only overshadowed Zelda because of character balancing (well, that and ninja's are inherently more fun than princesses), and character balance will change in Brawl, that's not a problam either.

 

[OnyxVulpine]

You sure about that? Personaly, I've had great fun playing against Sheik during casual play. I've also had fun playing against Fox and Marth, as well. For that matter, I've had fun playing AS both Mewtwo and Bowser against both Marth and Sheik. It might be slightly harder to win with those odds, but to call it unfun or unfair is an extreme exaggeration.

Man I used Zelda/Sheik while vs. Fox vs. Falco vs. Dr. M (and Link would get a chance since there were 5 of us there). At my friends house, it all seemed balanced to me, most of it was skill that went into play it would end up like.
Fox>Zelda/Sheik>Dr. M/Link>Falco
Didn't think that Fox and Sheik were actually considered better characters.. or.. less balanced.

Isn't there a statute of limitation on how long a character can be considered old hat? Sheik is, what, nine years and two consol generations old, right? Isn't that pretty retro by now? And come on, Oot is pretty classic and old school; at the very least you have to admit that.

I agree, it was a long time back and I think Sheik could still use some repping

I'm a pirates man myself, but even I'll admit that ninjas are cool. Sheik may be many things, but as a Ninja she's incapable of being stupid. And she only overshadowed Zelda because of character balancing (well, that and ninja's are inherently more fun than princesses), and character balance will change in Brawl, that's not a problam either.

Ninja>Princess usually.... But in this case
Ninja-Princess > Ninja > Princess
Having Sheik back would be nice, hopefully SHeik is a lil nerfed and Zelda a lil buffed. What ever is necessary for both characters to be balanced.

 

[Biggie Smalls]

Since Sheik isn't in Zelda's Movset, I have suspicion she will be her own character.

 

[Toologist]

We don't even know if Sheik is or isn't in Zelda's moveset at all.

 

[Dynamism]

Sheik will be in Brawl. Everyone who says she will be cut has poor reasoning and is just upset that they get owned by people who play as her, because she is a good character. I say, get better at the game or stop *****ing.

lol...she isn't "that" good. I actually think she's HIGHLY highly overrated.

Well. Zamus has Sheik written all over her.

Look at some of her moves.

I say no. As much as a cool character Sheik is

Zamus is alot like Sheik...to a point!
That doesn't (lol) Z cancle her out completely.

You know, just because you play competitively doesn't mean ALL of SmashBoards do. I play casually and admit it too. Shiek is totally unfair and not fun in casual play. It's arrogant assuming *******s like you that really get me pissed off at Tourney players (now to go to another thread with Tourney players I like so I can counter the being pissed off.)

Why do Mr. Game and Watch, Ness or Ice Climbers appear in SSBM? They're classics. Old School. What's Sheik? A one shot, flash in the pan character that did jack ****. Totally worthless in terms of character. And some stupid ninja transformation shouldn't overshadow one of the main long standing characters i.e. Zelda.

God I hate Sheik SOOO MUCH.

Calm down slightly...have you played as Sheik before? Alot of people who "main" a few characters will often lose perspectives on what the others are capable of and as the saying goes, curtisy of Snake "Knowing your enemy is the quickest way to victory."

Maybe you don't main characters or maybe you do but still play as Sheik...The truth is, she isn't actually a top tier character, she's just really easy to "master" playing "as"...there aren't many (proportionally speaking to the large number of smash players) that can OWN Sheik without taking a breath (metaphorically). Those who do have just played against those "Sheik obsessors" to the point where fighting them with Sheik is like having an obselete controller while trying to play Mario Tetrass lol...

I am a casual player as well and have never been to a tourey because I live in a sucluded area and am EXTREMELY buisy, (for the most part lol) I still have time to smash and meet smashers but tourneys are always too...far out of my way, so to speak. Although, I have become fairly good at smash (melee anyway) and have played with tourney players (maybe only a dozen of them, and only for maybe a few hours each) and I could be each one with almost every character because I've learned (almost) eveything I can know about the game... The one's that main Sheik don't do any better than the one's who main Kirby, well, maybe a little lol. The good Link, Luigi, Falco and Samus players are the ones I have trouble with so I'd say those chars are the top tier ones. That's just me possibly...

Bottom line, Sheik overrated and either way...a Character that effortlessly OWNS ALL (doesn't exist BTW) still has just as much a right of being in Brawl.

Dang, I got owned. I apparently have poor reasoning and I'm just upset that I get owned by people who play as ... wait, I never got owned by anyone. *scowls*

Hell, there are people who PLAY as Sheik who don't want her to return, and people who play as her and don't think she will return.

Stop generalizing, people. Generalizing is always wrong*, as paradoxical as it sounds.


*does not include mathematics

I don't care if she's back or not but I PLAY as Sheik and won't think she will or not until she's confirmed as in or out...

Since Sheik isn't in Zelda's Movset, I have suspicion she will be her own character.

How do you conclude she isn't?

We don't even know if Sheik is or isn't in Zelda's moveset at all.

Oh, thank you lol

If Sheik is in, I will enjoy her, if not, I will enjoy the characters that have "replaced" (if you can call it that) her just as much...

ONLINE FTW!!! lol
Seriously though

Edit: @Ban Heim: IC's are a good pick are they? I'd say Mewtwo has more advantages exposing her weaknesses and kicks Sheiks *** more.
And who says IC's are "low tier" I'd say they near the top, they can win or lose almost any battle 50/50, it always depends with them. Depends on Nana lol jk

 

[CPTNfalcon]

Hope she doesn't come back (I main Ganon)

EDIT: Also Zero suit Samus moves like Sheik. - Gets my hopes up

 

[Dizzynecro]

I read an article about the designers of sheik and ganondorf saying that they were working closly with smash team to help fit them into the enviroments or something but i cant remember where the hell it was argg.

EDIT Found it:
Putting the “Tri” Back in “Triforce”
Friday, August 3rd, 2007
It looks like Peach isn’t the only character whose Brawl appearance may have been confirmed before Sakurai’s introduced them. A piece published online by (fairly reputable) video game magazine Game Informer features an interview with Eiji Aonuma, a developer who’s worked with Zelda games since The Ocarina of Time on the N64. What could an interview focused on Zelda on the DS reveal about Brawl?

GI: Have you been consulted at all for the usage of Link or Sheik or Ganondorf for Smash Bros. Brawl?

Aonuma: I’ve been working with Sakurai for a very long time with this new Smash Bros., because the Wii came out and when discussion for a new Smash Bros. took place nobody could think of anyone other than Sakurai working on it. He was kind of the default, and I was very happy to hear that he would be working on it. Actually, my designers did work on the designs for Sheik and Link and Ganondorf. So they submitted the initial designs, and so it would fit in the Smash Bros. Brawl environment, they’ve had to tweak some of the designs. But Sakurai has brought those altered designs to NCL. We’re working very closely with the team of Smash Bros. Brawl to make sure the characters look their best.

Things we can assume from this statement? Literally, we know that there were, at least, designs created for Sheik and Ganondorf for Smash Bros. Brawl. You could say that it’s possible these characters were dropped later on, but it’s worth noting that Aonuma claims to have spent a lot of time with Sakurai on this game, and speaks in the present when he says “We’re working very closely with the team of Smash Bros. Brawl to make sure the characters look their best.” Sure sounds as if it’s an ongoing affair, or at least one that wasn’t dropped after a few concept sketches. Add his concern for “fitting into the environment” and it sounds as though these characters are receiving a bit more than mere trophy status, too.

So it looks like Zelda might retain her ability to transform into Sheik, and Ganondorf may very well be returning as a playable character for Brawl. As always, we won’t absolutely know for sure until Sakurai confirms it, but it sure sounds like there might be some truth in these particular rumors.


Posted in Characters, Rumors, Super Smash Bros. Brawl | 124 Comments »


From http://smashbrawl.com/2006/08/

 

[Littleonetwo]

I read an article about the designers of sheik and ganondorf saying that they were working closly with smash team to help fit them into the enviroments or something but i cant remember where the hell it was argg.

EDIT Found it:
Putting the “Tri” Back in “Triforce”
Friday, August 3rd, 2007
It looks like Peach isn’t the only character whose Brawl appearance may have been confirmed before Sakurai’s introduced them. A piece published online by (fairly reputable) video game magazine Game Informer features an interview with Eiji Aonuma, a developer who’s worked with Zelda games since The Ocarina of Time on the N64. What could an interview focused on Zelda on the DS reveal about Brawl?

GI: Have you been consulted at all for the usage of Link or Sheik or Ganondorf for Smash Bros. Brawl?

Aonuma: I’ve been working with Sakurai for a very long time with this new Smash Bros., because the Wii came out and when discussion for a new Smash Bros. took place nobody could think of anyone other than Sakurai working on it. He was kind of the default, and I was very happy to hear that he would be working on it. Actually, my designers did work on the designs for Sheik and Link and Ganondorf. So they submitted the initial designs, and so it would fit in the Smash Bros. Brawl environment, they’ve had to tweak some of the designs. But Sakurai has brought those altered designs to NCL. We’re working very closely with the team of Smash Bros. Brawl to make sure the characters look their best.

Things we can assume from this statement? Literally, we know that there were, at least, designs created for Sheik and Ganondorf for Smash Bros. Brawl. You could say that it’s possible these characters were dropped later on, but it’s worth noting that Aonuma claims to have spent a lot of time with Sakurai on this game, and speaks in the present when he says “We’re working very closely with the team of Smash Bros. Brawl to make sure the characters look their best.” Sure sounds as if it’s an ongoing affair, or at least one that wasn’t dropped after a few concept sketches. Add his concern for “fitting into the environment” and it sounds as though these characters are receiving a bit more than mere trophy status, too.

So it looks like Zelda might retain her ability to transform into Sheik, and Ganondorf may very well be returning as a playable character for Brawl. As always, we won’t absolutely know for sure until Sakurai confirms it, but it sure sounds like there might be some truth in these particular rumors.


Posted in Characters, Rumors, Super Smash Bros. Brawl | 124 Comments »


From http://smashbrawl.com/2006/08/

i posted the link to the actualy article a bit of the way up... lol

 

[Dizzynecro]

i posted the link to the actualy article a bit of the way up... lol

arrg i always end up posting old new.

 

[Ban Heim]

You know, just because you play competitively doesn't mean ALL of SmashBoards do. I play casually and admit it too. Shiek is totally unfair and not fun in casual play. It's arrogant assuming *******s like you that really get me pissed off at Tourney players (now to go to another thread with Tourney players I like so I can counter the being pissed off.)

Why do Mr. Game and Watch, Ness or Ice Climbers appear in SSBM? They're classics. Old School. What's Sheik? A one shot, flash in the pan character that did jack ****. Totally worthless in terms of character. And some stupid ninja transformation shouldn't overshadow one of the main long standing characters i.e. Zelda.

God I hate Sheik SOOO MUCH.

First of all, I've only been to three real smash tournaments in the 6 years I've been playing Melee. They were all humbling experiences and I learned that I'm not nearly as good as I though. But guess what? They inspired me to get better. I play with my friends for the most part and getting better is just as important in casual play as it is in competitive play. Who wants to stay at the same skill level?

What's stupid is you assuming that I'm an arrogant *******. If you'd ever see me at tourneys, you'd know that that's as far from the truth as possible. The arrogant people are the ones who go to tourneys and post in tourney topics saying they'll end up winning. And even they're not *******s. They just know that they're good. Regardless though, I can still tell that you're a noob, even by "casual" playing standards.

Oh, and Game and Watch and Ice Climbers weren't really classic characters. How much of the NA population knew about them before Melee? 15% tops. Just because they're from older games doesn't make them classics. Zelda 64 is classic. Which is why Sheik is in Melee and why she should remain in Brawl.

Edit: @Ban Heim: IC's are a good pick are they? I'd say Mewtwo has more advantages exposing her weaknesses and kicks Sheiks *** more.
And who says IC's are "low tier" I'd say they near the top, they can win or lose almost any battle 50/50, it always depends with them. Depends on Nana lol jk

ICs are good against Sheik because her grab game is very, very good for comboing and can easily lead to large amounts of damage before the enemy manages to escape. Ice Climbers are tough to grab because unless the Sheik player can seperate them before attempting a grab, he'll be taking a hammer to the face.

And yeah, I was just making a point about Sheik only being able to be killed by characters higher in the tier than her. ICs are lower tier than Sheik, but they're still pretty high up there. You're right though. A good IC player can easily crush some of the higher tier characters.

I don't know about Mewtwo being a good counterpick. I've never had trouble with Mewtwo with my Sheik. Then again, I haven't played anyone with a really good Mewtwo.

 

[tstumo]

Yes, Shiek serves no purpose!! she was in one Zelda game and she has no future relevance to the series as a whole. she was a one time thing. a disguise for Zelda nothing more. I mean while we're at it might as well throw in frog suit Mario. I mean it would be fine right. it was in one game and really serves no purpose now but it would be soo cool right??? um no. that's how you sound when you defend Shiek. I dont want her out because she's overpowered but because she again serves no purpose. Game and watch and etc were at least stars of their own games who made reappearences. unlike Shiek thank you very much. And the main reason being Zelda should get to be more utilized this time around.


your talking all tournament talk. and why she should remain because she was in one great Zelda game. please dont go by that logic because it makes no sense. that would mean mario should have the pink bomb omb that helped him in mario 64 because that game was a classic. going by that logic is dumb and makes no sense whatsoever. Sakurai wants characters that have something to them that contributes to the game they were in and brings something to the table. Shiek doesnt do that sorry. you want to keep her because of how good she is. not because you love her as a character like some people would Mario,Link etc. Shiek doesnt have that because what's there to like? she has no personality made one appearence. and was hardly even featured in that game but to come teach you a few songs then vanish. like seriously. I know the reason why u wannna keep her. I mean look at your avatar. Marth the tipper says it all. it's a shame really. I can like Luigi and Peach because of what they contributed to the Mario series. dont know if you can say the same about Shiek.

 

[_the_sandman_]

They could just take away Sheik and pass out her good attacks to some of the new characters.

 

[OysterMeister]

Yes, Shiek serves no purpose!! she was in one Zelda game and she has no future relevance to the series as a whole. she was a one time thing. a disguise for Zelda nothing more. I mean while we're at it might as well throw in frog suit Mario. I mean it would be fine right. it was in one game and really serves no purpose now but it would be soo cool right??? um no. that's how you sound when you defend Shiek.

Except that Sheik was the only disguise Zelda ever had, whereas Frog Mario was just one of many abilities Mario has had in his games. Apparently, Sakurai thought the Cape and the Fire Flower were better abilities than the frog suite, just as he seemed to think that becoming a ninja at will was a better ability than some made-up Zelda move..

I dont want her out because she's overpowered but because she again serves no purpose. Game and watch and etc were at least stars of their own games who made reappearences. unlike Shiek thank you very much. And the main reason being Zelda should get to be more utilized this time around.

Zelda will be used more when she becomes a better character, not when she gets rid of Sheik.

your talking all tournament talk. and why she should remain because she was in one great Zelda game. please dont go by that logic because it makes no sense. that would mean mario should have the pink bomb omb that helped him in mario 64 because that game was a classic. going by that logic is dumb and makes no sense whatsoever. Sakurai wants characters that have something to them that contributes to the game they were in and brings something to the table. Shiek doesnt do that sorry.

Really? Sheik has nothing that contributes to the game she was in? Man, Sheik was the first instance of Zelda attempting rebellion after being captured by Ganondorf in any Zelda game. That's fairly important.
And you say Sheik doesn't bring anything to the table? What are you talking about? She brings a Ninja moveset to the table. Now Dr. Mario, THERE'S a character who brings nothing to the table. Just pills and a lab coat.

you want to keep her because of how good she is. not because you love her as a character like some people would Mario,Link etc. Shiek doesnt have that because what's there to like? she has no personality made one appearence. and was hardly even featured in that game but to come teach you a few songs then vanish. like seriously. I know the reason why u wannna keep her. I mean look at your avatar. Marth the tipper says it all. it's a shame really.

Well, actually, I want to keep her because she's got a good moveset. Sheik has a great visual flair to her attacks, and the design is clever as well, seeing as how well all the attacks link together. She's a little overpowered right now, but that shouldn't keep her from returning.
And as for character... I'd say Sheik is the Bobba Fett of the Zelda world. She may not have made much of an appearance, but she's got enduring popularity in the Zelda series (even outside of smash) anyway. And personality? Sheik is Zelda, so she's got Zelda's personality, which gives her more personality than Link.

I can like Luigi and Peach because of what they contributed to the Mario series. dont know if you can say the same about Shiek.

Well, yeah, I think most people would have a hard time saying that Sheik contributed anything to the Mario series.