Why the Melee/Brawl Debate is Meaningless

[Reaver197]

I like how I can make one epic, well written, flameless post and it gets no attention aside form one person agreeing with me.

This is why I post with little ****ing starts for every other god ****ed word. People at least read it.

Lol, I know what you mean. It's even more irksome to see later posts that clearly show people never read it.

Like all the people that keep going "yeah, it's subjective! hurr hurr".

But, I guess I can't expect everyone to actually have the patience and/or clout to read every post in a thread. I guess I should consider starting another thread; people always (if not, at least they ought to) read the OP.

 

[Boxob]

MC-Killa: Not everyone is a mindless zombie. People play the game because they find it fun. Not because some guy they most likely don't know very well is really good at it.

If Melee were to ever compete with Brawl, it would need a massive rush of new players.

Which is sad, because Melee is a much better game in my eyes.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

Lol, I know what you mean. It's even more irksome to see later posts that clearly show people never read it.

Like all the people that keep going "yeah, it's subjective! hurr hurr".

But, I guess I can't expect everyone to actually have the patience and/or clout to read every post in a thread. I guess I should consider starting another thread; people always (if not, at least they ought to) read the OP.

why try to rush through a thread,if you dont read everything,youll probobly end up repeating a poing that has probobly been said 100x times.i know some people dont wanna go through 50+ pages but at least read the OP and the last page before posting

 

[Falconv1.0]

I need a question to be answered that I'm not quite sure if it deserves a thread, and that is how many top melee players play Brawl, and how many consider it just as good if not better than melee. I know a few good players and they know a lot about Brawl and win a lot in it, but act like it is complete **** when Melee is brought up in any way.

 

[Grunt]

I need a question to be answered that I'm not quite sure if it deserves a thread, and that is how many top melee players play Brawl, and how many consider it just as good if not better than melee. I know a few good players and they know a lot about Brawl and win a lot in it, but act like it is complete **** when Melee is brought up in any way.

Chillin and Azen like it better because... uh...

I've never claimed Brawl to be a better game than Melee. And it's not really that complicated, Brawl is a new game, everything is different, so I like it compared to Melee where everything got stale.

what don't people understand about melee getting old? melee is an amazing game, but i'd like to see you go to tourneys for 6 straight years and not get tired of it. i moved on to something new, get off my nuts

 

[MarKO X]

About the whole reading thing... it's only for people who actually went to class and did their homework... cool people don't read.

Anyway, I'm not cool, I read the posts. It's just that I'm done debating Brawl vs. Melee. The posts are intelligent, but 1)if I post something back, your gonna say "ur an 08er," which isn't much better than saying, "it's all subjective," and 2) I'm done debating (yes, I'm repeating myself.) because... well... the Brawl/Melee debate is meaningless.

I agree with Jack.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Lol, I know what you mean. It's even more irksome to see later posts that clearly show people never read it.

Like all the people that keep going "yeah, it's subjective! hurr hurr".

But, I guess I can't expect everyone to actually have the patience and/or clout to read every post in a thread. I guess I should consider starting another thread; people always (if not, at least they ought to) read the OP.

Yeah, I've been considering updating the OP with all of the relevant rebuttals, but I just haven't had the time lately. Work has been consuming my soul. Hopefully I can get around to it soon, because I really think it would enhance the message of the thread.

PS: I totally love those chillin quotations. I actually lol'ed when I read the phrase 'get off my nuts.'

 

[Reaver197]

Yeah, I've been considering updating the OP with all of the relevant rebuttals, but I just haven't had the time lately. Work has been consuming my soul. Hopefully I can get around to it soon, because I really think it would enhance the message of the thread.

PS: I totally love those chillin quotations. I actually lol'ed when I read the phrase 'get off my nuts.'

Oh, work, lol. My summer job is ending this week so I'll have a couple of weeks of relaxation before school starts, though I have to actually spend them getting prepared for a class that I have to do work over the summer for (grrrgh).

But, yeah, that would be nice. I think I ought to edit my post because I recall it being a lot more strident than it really ought to be. That would be cool though, and not to mention gracious to post opposing views in the OP.

@ MarKO

I can understand how frustrating it is to just have your join date thrown back you as a way of dismissing anything you say. It really ought not to be like that, but some 08ers seem to go ought of their way to bring that stereotype upon all other 08ers. However, if I may, I would recommend changing your sig, because posters unfamiliar of you might think you're seeing/writing everything through a bias for Brawl, even though I know you don't try to.

 

[game set]

I was looking back at all the old posts throughout this thread, and I cant help but laugh how people have managed to come up with a reasonable reason for everyside. Not that everyone on the thread was right, but there have been intelligent points presented for almost every angle.

After every post i keep having to laugh, though. It just comes back to what people want/fear or decide to do. You can surround your decision with reason and justice no matter who you are, no matter what your decision. I've been around this community for 2 years, but i'll admit i ultimately know nothing when it comes to alot of these old vets. But still since this forum does not belong to the vets, there seems to be no way of making a central decision.

I agree ALOT with putting some of the better discussions of varied veiwpoints in the OP. Just to show how many ways people can take the same truths and still be at odds, with only a differance of core opinion.

There is no decision that will please everybody, thats about as far as we have got.

------------------

look back at history and you'll see that this sort of thing happens to us all the time, with only two solutions; war or peace. This is also part of another massive problem; this is the internet, the impersonal medium. On a forum site, this happens all the time, people argue, some change, most dont, seen it a thousand times. In this situation, people have a real thing they are argueing over, something they are passionate about, and many are at the beleife that the opposing side is taking something away from that. This is why something needs to happen, just so people can have closure. Otherwise they will have to wait until what they fear, and want either happens, or doesn't.

as of yet i can not see any "End All" of this discussion.

 

[Wrath`]

That's the thing. Almost everyone can agree that Melee is a better game for competition out of the Smash series. I don't think there are many people who would even try to deny that. And I'm not going to say that Brawl isn't fun. Brawl is fun, but there is a difference between playing a game for fun and playing a game for competition, and that's the realization that some people need to get through their head.

If you want to decide who is a Smash player, would you play Melee or Brawl? I would choose Melee, because I know that the attributes it takes to be a successful player in that game are greater than Brawl's. That simple idea should be what keeps people playing Melee. however, people came to these boards to play/learn Brawl. Getting here and learning that the game you bought and love to play isn't the competitive standard has to be a shot to the head, right? Well, is it worth slightly crushing their hopes to play a game that we can almost all agree is better suited to prove who is better?

To me... yes. Though, I wouldn't intentionally say, "LOL, you suck, you play Brawl." I'd drop it on them easy by saying something along the lines of, "Brawl is a fun game, but, we as a community, believe that Melee is a more deep game and provides a better scene for competitive players. there is a Brawl community though, but I suggest that you blow off that Melee disc and get good at that and play Brawl when you want to blow some steam."

Would that be alright with people? I don't think personal preference should play into which game we chose to play competitively. I think we have explored the reasons inside and out and we've concluded that Melee is better, right now, for tournaments. If Brawl does progress to the point where it is as deep or more than Melee, then there should be absolutely no problem with switching. However, I doubt that day will come, and we should continue to look into Melee who is still growing and being explored. We should stop gripping onto Brawl like a child to a Blanket, fearing that if we let go that we somehow hurt its feelings. Just set it down, grow up, and play Melee. When your friends want to hang out, when you are tired of playing Melee, or you want to see some pretty graphics and awesome music, then go right ahead and pop in Brawl. However, trying to put Brawl up higher than Melee in terms of ability to say which player is better is insane in my mind.

Wow... I ranted.

Whoops I forgot to get back to you on this, well that about sums up everything, **** I don't think any post including the OP can top this.

This got me think of something tho. And I will use the painting analogy to boot.

I have a house wich represents compition, now this house is a classical styled/decorated house, I have two paintings. A painting by monette(melee rep) and one by Andy Warhaul(Brawl). Andy's painting is newer and cooler, but Monette fits the theme of the house better because it's classical, and scince my house represents compition then obviously melee goes good in my compition house.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

It totally is counter-productive. The way I see it, having the Melee pros choose to play Brawl over Melee hurts the Melee community WAY more than the influx of new players ever will. Players look up to those pros, and if they see them sacrificing enjoyment of a game for money, well... they'll probably follow like sheep. Getting the pros back on Melee should be the first priority of all those people wanting to save Melee, because without leaders, the community probably will fail.

That's exactly correct, the only reason our melee tournies in the mw are getting back going is because all the pros in the area are dropping brawl and hosting melee tournies again. Our last one had 70+ people turnout.... that is ridiculous.. we couldn't have that many people show for a random tournie when melee was in its prime. Darkrain is howing another one which is looking to have a massive turnout as well... without money incentive.. the rest of the pros wont hop on the bandwagon.. so long story short host more tournies.

 

[game set]

@coreygames

I agree, on everypoint, i think the same way, and wish it could be like that. but it wont, unless a miracle happens.

@koarin

That is an amazing metaphor for the brawl/melee arguement, especially since it has the same flaws. It is still up to aesthetic OPINION on what looks good with what. but that doesn't mean it's right to be on the fence, It means you have to know what you want to beleive. there are good reason to have a beleif and bad

@trail
... crazy 08's

 

[Jack Kieser]

@Wrath of Korain: Again, all of these arguments, including your house analogy and coreygames' wall o' text pre-assume one thing: that only one game can be the standard for the community.

Just because one game is 'supposedly more competitive' than the other (still up for debate to some extent because in order to prove Melee is better, one has to first accept your measuring rod for competition, a measuring rod expressly designed to prove Melee more competitive; this isn't logic or debate, and I fully disagree with it) doesn't mean that we HAVE to play only that game, which ultimately will always be the crux of your argument, whether you explicitly state it or not. We, as a community, CAN play both games and not have either of them suffer, but not as long as the two sects are blaming each other for downturns of attendance. Again, the only people we have to blame for Melee's loss of player base are the Melee players for abandoning their own game.

Let's assume for a moment that Brawl didn't 'steal' players from Melee and instead the Melee player base stayed static. The influx of new players to Brawl, therefore, would have NO EFFECT on the Melee player base; no matter how large the Brawl player base got, Melee would remain healthy because the mere existence of Brawl/Brawl players can't overtly effect the Melee community (which is ultimately the argument you've been making all along: Brawl, simply by existing, is stealing Melee players and thus people need to stop playing Brawl so they can instead play Melee). The only logical conclusion to be reached is that the only people to blame for Melee's poor showing the last few months are the Melee fans themselves. Not the '08 posters. Not newbie players. Not people who only play Brawl, or even people that play both games.

I know this knowledge hurts. Coreygames is on my ignore list because of his incessant whining about 'Oh, no one came to my Melee tourney! Brawl is so evil!!11', and it can't feel good when I say that he only has himself/his fellow Melee friends to blame. Hell, I'd be pissed, too. But if he, or anyone else sharing his position, had a shred of intellectual honesty, they'd be openly admitting that they aren't interested in moderation, they aren't interested in getting people to play both games. They are only interested in making Melee dominant. Not equal. Not better than it is now. The biggest, the best, the most widely played Smash game out of the three. It doesn't matter that we can't agree on what makes a 'competitive game'. They know, in their hearts, that they are right and because of this, Brawl must be resigned to a lame fate, only to be played as a sideshow to the real Smash game (Melee), and certainly not to be respected in any legitimate way.

As an intellectual and a man of open-mind, I cannot agree with this.

EDIT @ HoChiMinhTrail: It's good to hear some of your area's pros are coming back to Melee. It's even better that the situation is perfectly parroting what I had already postulated (if I'm reading you correctly, that is). Real-world evidence is always nice.

 

[MarKO X]

Oh, work, lol. My summer job is ending this week so I'll have a couple of weeks of relaxation before school starts, though I have to actually spend them getting prepared for a class that I have to do work over the summer for (grrrgh).

But, yeah, that would be nice. I think I ought to edit my post because I recall it being a lot more strident than it really ought to be. That would be cool though, and not to mention gracious to post opposing views in the OP.

@ MarKO

I can understand how frustrating it is to just have your join date thrown back you as a way of dismissing anything you say. It really ought not to be like that, but some 08ers seem to go ought of their way to bring that stereotype upon all other 08ers. However, if I may, I would recommend changing your sig, because posters unfamiliar of you might think you're seeing/writing everything through a bias for Brawl, even though I know you don't try to.

THAT'S what I've been meaning to do. I wanted to change it, but I forgot about it, then I came back to the boards, thinking, "wasn't there something I was supposed to do?" THat's what it was. Thanx for reminding me.

 

[Jeremy Feifer]

...We need melee in Texas... cause its dying way to fast... I need revival techniques.

 

[Hyper_Ridley]

But if he, or anyone else sharing his position, had a shred of intellectual honesty, they'd be openly admitting that they aren't interested in moderation, they aren't interested in getting people to play both games. They are only interested in making Melee dominant. Not equal. Not better than it is now. The biggest, the best, the most widely played Smash game out of the three. It doesn't matter that we can't agree on what makes a 'competitive game'. They know, in their hearts, that they are right and because of this, Brawl must be resigned to a lame fate, only to be played as a sideshow to the real Smash game (Melee), and certainly not to be respected in any legitimate way.

Well, to be fair,I'm sure there are people who want Brawl to be the "only" game played.

 

[game set]

sorry double post

 

[game set]

...We need melee in Texas... cause its dying way to fast... I need revival techniques.

I live about a 1 hour drive from any reasonable large city, in no traffic. And couldn't get to many tournaments even if I had much time. In my small hamlet, or any reachable surrounding area, I haven't managed to find any melee players. My only non tournament practice i get, is from a pretty good jiggs down my street and all his secondary's. All my other gaming friends, are scrubs in melee, but are still okay, just cause they have a good idea of spacing, tech, mindgames, ect. from other fighters. There's a few pot dealers around town who are 64 pros, and i play that with them occasionaly. Just so i could play more tournaments, me and sensei (down my street) have been trying to set up a melee biweekly in our area. Right now we're just trying to find outwere to start, we need to make sure that anybody who could and wants to come, makes it to our tourney. I'm 100% certain if we do try hard enough, and melee is as good as we say, that we can keep it alive. I'm 100% certain that we could make it bigger than it was. It's up to us who want it.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Well, to be fair,I'm sure there are people who want Brawl to be the "only" game played.

To be fair, what do you think, logically, the ratio of 'Only Melee' supporters to 'Only Brawl' supporters is? Unfortunately, we'll never know for sure without a census or something, but based off of posting history in GBD, I'd say the 'Only Melee' people are far more numerous because Brawl players are too busy playing Brawl to care what anyone else plays.

I have a really big post that I'll make soon on why none of Melee's current problems can be blamed on Brawl. It will be a wall of text, and I'll probably take a while to type it, so don't expect it for a while. It is coming, though.

 

[MarKO X]

To be fair, what do you think, logically, the ratio of 'Only Melee' supporters to 'Only Brawl' supporters is? Unfortunately, we'll never know for sure without a census or something, but based off of posting history in GBD, I'd say the 'Only Melee' people are far more numerous because Brawl players are too busy playing Brawl to care what anyone else plays.

I have a really big post that I'll make soon on why none of Melee's current problems can be blamed on Brawl. It will be a wall of text, and I'll probably take a while to type it, so don't expect it for a while. It is coming, though.

ahhh, the anticipation... like a trailer.
---------------------------------------------------
Coming soon, to a smashboard near you...

Jack Kieser's Great Wall of Text: Why Brawl can't be Blamed for Melee's Problems.

Summer 2008.
---------------------------------------------------

 

[Jack Kieser]

Haha... oh, wow. I lol'ed at that. I can almost see the trailer in my mind, and it is a blockbuster.

MarKO, I think now that I'll flesh it out some more and make the post its own thread, seeing as it is a bit tangential to this thread.

 

[game set]

Haha... oh, wow. I lol'ed at that. I can almost see the trailer in my mind, and it is a blockbuster.

MarKO, I think now that I'll flesh it out some more and make the post its own thread, seeing as it is a bit tangential to this thread.

I think that the OP, although you do state the point, could have been done alot better. I`m sure alot of readers might have got confused by few aspects, but it is clear after reading through the thread what the discussion is. I imagined a new thread were instead of using comparisons you already have up, you use the melee-brawl agruements. It would be really nice to see alot of the really good points from each side right next to each other. Maybe even some quotes from this thread and others. I`m interested anything new somebody has to say.



In regards to the problem, I just want to play melee, and have people to play melee with. I know that many people will enjoy brawl more, but i also know that many people will enjoy melee more. I want to live and let live, and find some way we can work around each other. If you ever seen the movie "A Beatiful Mind" I'm talking about the scene were russel crowe has his epiphanny in the bar when him and the other guys are talking. They are checking out a group of women in the bar, and he points out that if they all go for the blond (because they all want her), one may get her, or no one would. Since they had all gone for the blond, all the other girls would then give them the cold shoulder. He decided that the best way to succeed, would be for all of them to do a combination of what was best for themselves and the group. They would ignore the blond and instead talk to the reast of the girls, as this way, with only small accomodation, they would all get laid. We need to find out the best solution for everybody....

but that's the problem...

 

[Wrath`]

ahhh, the anticipation... like a trailer.
---------------------------------------------------
Coming soon, to a smashboard near you...

Jack Kieser's Great Wall of Text: Why Brawl can't be Blamed for Melee's Problems.

Summer 2008.
---------------------------------------------------

I am just wondering what the response will bel from coreygames. It should be good tho.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Ha, I'm actually citing him and his story about his Melee tournament. I'm searching for his posts about it as we speak.

 

[notftomearth7]

I totally agree. Brawl and Melee are so different on so many levels they cannot be compared. It's like starting an "Apples or Oranges which is better" thread. The first page of responders missed the point COMPLETELY.

 

[Wrath`]

I totally agree. Brawl and Melee are so different on so many levels they cannot be compared. It's like starting an "Apples or Oranges which is better" thread. The first page of responders missed the point COMPLETELY.

Yes it is agreeable you can not compare the two, but wich is suited fro competitive play.

Aplles go good in a pie, oranges dont. oranges go good with soda, aplee soda? bleck.

So wich is now the best suited? That is new question I think should be adreesed.

by the way Apples>oranges

 

[Jack Kieser]

Finally. Man, that was longer than I thought it would be. Now, after I go through the first wave of 'tl;dr's and inane posts, I can get on trying to update this thread's OP.

 

[game set]

Yes it is agreeable you can not compare the two, but wich is suited fro competitive play.

Aplles go good in a pie, oranges dont. oranges go good with soda, aplee soda? bleck.

So wich is now the best suited? That is new question I think should be adreesed.

by the way Apples>oranges

we have to agree on the seperate veiws of competitive, as words meanings are just as subjective as the veiws on games.

 

[ice-]

Through propaganda on the boards and relating to brawl nublets the truth when we go to their tournies and pwn them in brawl.... we have held 2 melee tournies over the summer with 70+ in attendance. Chicago area is taking back its members from brawl... but it requires alot of the experienced players backing it as well as new people who see how crazy melee can be and want to do that as well. So in essence we have pretty much snuffed out any major brawl supporters in our area, the last brawl tournie that was supposed to be huge ended up having only around 15 people. So yes... it is possible melee supporters... build it... and they will come. Once agian tho what really helps in converting is going to the tournies and pwning everyone... when all the scrubs look up to you lIke "omg UIR SO GOOd" you simply say.... "this is brawl" "none of us really like this game we are just here for your money " "come out to our melee tournie and have some real fun."

Pretty much gg.

qft

Basically people will travel for Melee. We had 4-5 brawl tournments within 30 mins of my friends and I and we combined went to two of them. But we gladly make the trip up to Chicago to get owned by Trail, Tink, Cosmo and Co. because the community is better and the game is better.

 

[MarKO X]

Oranges are clearly better than apples

Spoiler

IMO.

 

[daisey]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You don't know what you are talking about, and you are making baseless and uneducated claims. Most Melee fans dislike Brawl for MANY MANY reasons besides the fact that it's slower. One of my biggest problem with the game, is that most respected pro's acknowledge that Melee >>>>>>> Brawl, and are only playing it for the money. There are so many noobs who are willing to contribute to a tournament pot, but still get destroyed by the same Melee vets.

im going to have to agree with you here

Jack Keiser. There is no Melee/Brawl Debate. The fact remains that Melee is better than Brawl in terms of Gameplay.

In my opinion, yes. Nicely said.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Oranges are clearly better than apples

Spoiler

IMO.

... stop with that argument... its ********.

 

[game set]

qft

Basically people will travel for Melee. We had 4-5 brawl tournments within 30 mins of my friends and I and we combined went to two of them. But we gladly make the trip up to Chicago to get owned by Trail, Tink, Cosmo and Co. because the community is better and the game is better.

I'd have to slightly disagree, saying "if you build it they will come" is not entirely true. There are a massive amount of variable's that determine the success of a tournament in your area. Regardless, its still perfect advice, because it isn't like we can know what will happen, and trying wouldn't hurt the situation. I know I'm going to do my best to build the Melee community in my area, hopefully they will come.

 

[Oracle]

The problem is that brawl is a completely different game than melee. Smash bros has always been a combo based fighter (like marvel vs. capcom 2, where the combo counter goes up to very, very high numbers), rather than a strategy/strength based fighter (like street fighter, where it is impossible to get more than about a 3 hit combo). Since sakurai took away the combos, the fighting style has completely changed, but since smash is an unusual fighter, it is now very slow and boring to watch, and slow and slightly interesting to play.

 

[game set]

The problem is that brawl is a completely different game than melee. Smash bros has always been a combo based fighter (like marvel vs. capcom 2, where the combo counter goes up to very, very high numbers), rather than a strategy/strength based fighter (like street fighter, where it is impossible to get more than about a 3 hit combo). Since sakurai took away the combos, the fighting style has completely changed, but since smash is an unusual fighter, it is now very slow and boring to watch, and slow and slightly interesting to play.

combo's, strategy, strength, were all integral parts of melee.

 

[okiyama]

The flaw in your arguement:
You ask us which is most technical to MAKE. Not which is most technical to USE. We are not making any games here, we are not making art, we are using art, so it's a completely different arguement.

If you wanted to argue which song takes more technical skill to listen to you are an idiot.

The other difference that was pointed out earlier is that smash is an adaptive art form, we shape the games, whereas the paintings are just there and we can't change them.

 

[Jack Kieser]

Art (and entertainment) is all about interpretation, and that's what people who don't take heavy Humanities courses usually don't know. A painting may not be able to be changed, but artist's intent is still an issue because a painter may try to evoke Emotional Reaction A out of me when I view it, while my experiences and thought processes may cause me to evoke Emotional Response B.

Sakurai (or any other designer of any other game) has provided us with his piece, a piece we cannot change (without Ocarina ), and we interpret that piece in many different ways. Some interpret it as he intended it to be (meaning the response he planned for was evoked), as a party game. Some people see different things, look for different things, and interpret it as a serious fighter. User interpretation of the source material is inherent to all forms of art/entertainment, including paintings, music, movies, books, and yes, even games.

 

[Corigames]

I know this knowledge hurts. Coreygames is on my ignore list because of his incessant whining about 'Oh, no one came to my Melee tourney! Brawl is so evil!!11', and it can't feel good when I say that he only has himself/his fellow Melee friends to blame.

And you aren't on my ignore list just in case you ever find yourself in the position where you are dumb enough to want to try to have a one on one conversation with me. Just because you remain "cool" with your posts doesn't make them any more ligetimate than my "whiny" or "flamey" posts.

For example, Melee is fast and you suck *****. Now, did saying "you suck ***** " change how what the rest of what I said was true? No. Melee is fast and you suck *****.

Hell, I'd be pissed, too. But if he, or anyone else sharing his position, had a shred of intellectual honesty,

and if you had a little bit of intellect...

they'd be openly admitting that they aren't interested in moderation, they aren't interested in getting people to play both games. They are only interested in making Melee dominant. Not equal. Not better than it is now. The biggest, the best, the most widely played Smash game out of the three. It doesn't matter that we can't agree on what makes a 'competitive game'.

Because, you know, that I haven't said IN EXTREME BULK that I do not want Brawl's scene to die out. However, in conjunction with that, I don't want Melee's to drop either. I also know that Melee is a better designed game for what our community needs, so when people try to say that they know what's best, I will rant, yell, scream, insult, or whatever the **** I feel like. They are just as biased as me. And when the new parts of our rapidly expanding community are trying to sway which game is the preferred game without having played both extensively, then I have to say something about it.

If you could provide solid proof as to why we should play Brawl over Melee aside from the flock of newbs that follow it like Christians to Easter sermon, then why should we make it the competitive standard for smash... ever?

They know, in their hearts, that they are right and because of this, Brawl must be resigned to a lame fate, only to be played as a sideshow to the real Smash game (Melee), and certainly not to be respected in any legitimate way.

And you know in your heart that you absolutely blow at Melee which is why you want to propel your self-proclaimed "meaningless debate" until Melee rots away so that a ill-suited game can replace its spot. Oh look... I assumed to. **** it.

As an intellectual and a man of open-mind, I cannot agree with this.

When did that happen? Certainly not in this post or any other on Smash boards? Are you an intellectual in your spare time and have open-mindedness as a side hobby that you dare not show to any of us?

Oh, and you suck *****.

 

[Wrath`]

The flaw in your arguement:
You ask us which is most technical to MAKE. Not which is most technical to USE. We are not making any games here, we are not making art, we are using art, so it's a completely different arguement.

If you wanted to argue which song takes more technical skill to listen to you are an idiot.

The other difference that was pointed out earlier is that smash is an adaptive art form, we shape the games, whereas the paintings are just there and we can't change them.

So it all in the knife I use? Like brawl is a big azz axe and you know you want to chop the fish with it, and melee is a small knife for persions cutting, thats my take on what you said,we are no making cutting matieralls we are using them, I would love to use the axe tho.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Art (and entertainment) is all about interpretation, and that's what people who don't take heavy Humanities courses usually don't know. A painting may not be able to be changed, but artist's intent is still an issue because a painter may try to evoke Emotional Reaction A out of me when I view it, while my experiences and thought processes may cause me to evoke Emotional Response B.

Sakurai (or any other designer of any other game) has provided us with his piece, a piece we cannot change (without Ocarina ), and we interpret that piece in many different ways. Some interpret it as he intended it to be (meaning the response he planned for was evoked), as a party game. Some people see different things, look for different things, and interpret it as a serious fighter. User interpretation of the source material is inherent to all forms of art/entertainment, including paintings, music, movies, books, and yes, even games.

Ok but there is only one thing... sakurai DID make it with the intention with taking out alot of the competitive aspects of melee. Unlike most artists, we know SAKURAI's INTENTION lol. IT WAS HIS INTENTION to take this direction with brawl. Yes it can still be competitive... but not until it makes it past all the barriers sakurai has placed before it. Do you go to tournies? Do you see how people play? cmon man....