Why **** jokes are NEVER okay.

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Link to original post: [drupal=5095]Why **** jokes are NEVER okay.[/drupal]



To all those men who don't think that **** jokes are a problem:

I get it—you're a decent guy. I can even believe it. You've never ***** anybody. You would NEVER **** anybody. You're upset that all these feminists are trying to accuse you of doing something, or connect you to doing something, that, as far as you're concerned, you've never done and would never condone.

And they've told you about triggers, and PTSD, and how one in six women is a survivor, and you get it. You do. But you can't let every time someone gets all upset get in the way of you having a good time, right? Especially when it doesn't mean anything. **** jokes have never made YOU go out and **** someone. They never would; they never could. You just don't see how it matters.

I'm going to tell you how it does matter. And I tell you this because I genuinely believe you mean it when you say you don't want to hurt anybody, and that it's important to you to do your best to be a decent and good person, and that you don't see the harm. And I genuinely believe you when you say you would never associate with a rapist and you think **** really is a very bad thing.

Here is why I refuse to take **** jokes sitting down…

Because 6% of college-aged men, slightly over 1 in 20, will admit to ****** someone in anonymous surveys, as long as the word "****" isn't used in the description of the act—and that's the conservative estimate. Other sources double that number (pdf).

A lot of people accuse feminists of thinking that all men are rapists. That's not true. But do you know who think all men are rapists?

Rapists do.

They really do. In psychological study, the profiling, the studies, it comes out again and again.
Virtually all rapists genuinely believe that all men ****, and other men just keep it hushed up better. And more, these people who really are rapists are constantly reaffirmed in their belief about the rest of mankind being rapists like them by things like **** jokes, that dismiss and normalize the idea of ****.

If one in twenty guys (or more) is a real and true rapist, and you have any amount of social activity with other guys like yourself, then it is almost a statistical certainty that one time hanging out with friends and their friends, playing Halo with a bunch of guys online, in a WoW guild, in a pick-up game of basketball, at a bar, or elsewhere, you were talking to a rapist. Not your fault. You can't tell a rapist apart any better than anyone else can. It's not like they announce themselves.

But, here's the thing. It's very likely that in some of these interactions with these guys, at some point or another, someone told a **** joke. You, decent guy that you are, understood that they didn't mean it, and it was just a joke. And so you laughed.

Or maybe you didn't laugh. Maybe it just wasn't a very funny joke. So maybe you just didn't say anything at all.

And, decent guy who would never condone ****, who would step in and stop **** if he saw it, who understands that **** is awful and wrong and bad, when you laughed? When you were silent?

That rapist who was in the group with you, that rapist thought that you were on his side. That rapist knew that you were a rapist like him. And he felt validated, and he felt he was among his comrades.

You. The rapist's comrade.

And if that doesn't make you feel sick to your stomach, if that doesn't make you want to throw up, if that doesn't disturb you or bother you or make you feel like maybe you should at least consider not participating in that kind of humor anymore, not abiding it in your presence, not greeting it with silence...

Well, maybe you aren't as opposed to rapists as you claim.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Rapists are people too

 

[Kewkky]

Just a small opinion: making **** jokes dosn't mean people aren't opposed to ****. Are you saying that people who make Hitler jokes are opposed to jews, or support Hitler? That's the kind of correlation I'm getting from your closing statement.


Apart from that, good read. People don't mean harm when they say **** jokes, but there's victims that still get irked when they say people laughing at that kind of stuff. Essentially you shut them out from many places in the internet and society due to them not wanting to revisit the experience, even if it's just a joke. I myself make no **** jokes, but not because I don't find them to be acceptable, but because they're just not funny and are always immature.

However, black humor will keep existing, so you can't eradicate the problem no matter how hard we try. Somewhere, someone is allowing those jokes to be used regularly and they won't back down.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Those that are apathetic about what Jewish, and many other groups of people, had to go through because of Hitler, may as well be in support of said acts. This includes making tasteless jokes. Essentially, yes, that's what I'm saying. I deal in absolutes.

 

[Kewkky]

There is nothing absolute in this world when regarding opinions and ideas. There will always be even a small amount of people to oppose or support the idea, against the majority's opinion. Just saying, you may want to revisit your "dealing everything in absolutes" status.

Not everyone who makes Hitler jokes support him. In fact, almost all of them are happy to see him gone, and are using him as a point of ridicule. From getting pineapples shoved up in unwelcome areas daily (hurhurhur) in Little Nicky, to multiple Youtube videos of movie clips dubbed to fit the user's theme (angry Hitler video) for the sake of comedy, to simple comics depicting Hitler's stupid/dumb moments and/or contradicting famous people's quotes ("judge a man by how he treats animals", with pictures of Hitler playing with his dog, then the "are you ****ing kidding me" meme to show disdain for the quote)... they aren't showing support for Hitler in the least bit. Same could be said for people making **** jokes. It's called black humor and lots of people around the world enjoy it.

Doesn't make it right, but who are we to impose our values over others when it's not against the law for them to do so? Wasn't there something about "free speech" thrown around by people with differing, controversial opinions everywhere in the US?

I still don't like **** jokes though, don't think I'll ever find them funny. :/

 

[Spelt]

get *****, people who use **** jokes.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

I agree that **** jokes can be a problem, my only issue here is that many people who oppose the use of **** jokes also openly use other clearly offensive terms (mostly violence related/profanity) My biggest issue is "that's Gay"

Seriously, if I can't make **** jokes, you can't say "that's gay". End of story

 

[Kewkky]

Very valid point there, Tarmogoyf. I was looking for another example that I could compare to "****" and could only think of "Hitler" off the top of my head, but "gay" fits in perfectly too.

 

[shmeargle]

I think thething about **** jokes is that **** IS an actual crime. Usually **** victims are murdered as well. Other jokes about racism exist but are not crimes unless they involve lynching blacks or killing Jews and etc. A lot of women do get ***** and it isn't really a comfortable thing for them when these jokes fly about freely. I used to be one of the guys who make the jokes but rarely. Now I don't at all. Sometimes in parking lots and I happen to see a girl I always feel the urge to walk a different route from her. I haven't done anythingthat commits the crime but knowing these facts kind of make me feel really guilty.

 

[Morin0]

Woah. **** jokes? I thought this was going to be talking about the use of the word "****" in the Smash community but **** jokes? What in the world...

Spoiler

Unless you are talking about this (e.g. "Armada ***** Mango") then that's an interesting way to put it

 

[Browny]

Usually **** victims are murdered as well.[1]

Adverb: usually yoo-zhoo-u-lee
Under normal conditions
"usually she was late";
- normally, unremarkably, commonly, ordinarily

Most of the time; in most cases
"usually it doesn't rain much here";
- by and large, generally, more often than not, mostly, in general, normally, on the whole, typically, ordinarily, as a rule

-

[1] Citation needed

 

[Wumbo105]

get *****, people who use **** jokes.

dammit, you beat me to it.

Anyway, I don't see a problem with using the word "****" to describe something, as someone said above me, "Armada ***** Mango". It's just a hyperbolic way to mentally illustrate a humorous image of one person asserting their dominance over another.
If that's a problem, then we have to stop saying the word "beat", as in "Armada beat Mango". Because le gasp, that means you support battery and/or assault.

But that's not the issue being presented here, so whatever. As for jokes made in reference to a ****, I just don't hear those, never even heard one. Who the hell makes **** jokes? I guess I can't really give an opinion because I haven't been exposed to the matter at hand, and I don't really know anybody who has lol.

 

[Jam Stunna]

Those that are apathetic about what Jewish, and many other groups of people, had to go through because of Hitler, may as well be in support of said acts. This includes making tasteless jokes. Essentially, yes, that's what I'm saying. I deal in absolutes.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Also, it's pretty crazy to think that someone being apathetic towards an issue is equatable to them actually supporting it. Whether you're an absolutist or not, that doesn't make sense.

 

[Teran]

Would you call this one abhorrent?

Spoiler

"Over 98% of women kiss with their eyes closed.

That explains why it's so hard to identify a rapist."

 

[Kewkky]

I think thething about **** jokes is that **** IS an actual crime. Usually **** victims are murdered as well. Other jokes about racism exist but are not crimes unless they involve lynching blacks or killing Jews and etc. A lot of women do get ***** and it isn't really a comfortable thing for them when these jokes fly about freely. I used to be one of the guys who make the jokes but rarely. Now I don't at all. Sometimes in parking lots and I happen to see a girl I always feel the urge to walk a different route from her. I haven't done anythingthat commits the crime but knowing these facts kind of make me feel really guilty.

So, racism has been the cause of many murders and horrible crimes throughout history, and still is today. Why make jokes involving any racial slurs, even between friends? Same as homophobia, it has been the cause of many murders towards innocent homosexuals. Do they deserve such treatment? What about religion, which has quite a bloody history, and has been around ever since two civilizations with different religions have had encounters? What about those who were slaughtered because of something as harmless as personal beliefs?

Might as well prevent the use of everything that may hurt someone's feelings.


I still do not think **** jokes are funny though.

 

[KevinM]

Those that are apathetic about what Jewish, and many other groups of people, had to go through because of Hitler, may as well be in support of said acts. This includes making tasteless jokes. Essentially, yes, that's what I'm saying. I deal in absolutes.

To me basically says "I deal in ignorance"

if the world was black and white we wouldn't have a lot of the problems we do now.

And if you're going to readily admit that you deal in absolutes then you're a little to ignorant to try and stick your nose into sensitive affairs.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I'm not so sure rapists genuinely think other people are rapists because they make **** jokes. I believe it is likely through projection: "I'm like this, so other guys must be like this too." I seriously don't think, even from the fragile point of view from the psyche of a rapist, that when they are in the environment that condones such jokes, they really take that as a positive signal that it is okay. Especially considering they are aware of its meaning, intention, it's stigma with a lot of people, etc. I don't think rapists are naturally good thinkers, but I don't think they have to be to pick up something so easy. Unless, it is something different and much bigger, like self-projection.

Though, this isn't me saying **** jokes are awesome, I don't find them funny like I did when I was a younger, but I also think that making words and topics taboo is something even less funny, and as others say, there will be inconsistencies unless we ban many phrases and words.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Also, it's pretty crazy to think that someone being apathetic towards an issue is equatable to them actually supporting it. Whether you're an absolutist or not, that doesn't make sense.

Agreed. There is an alarmingly huge intentional and consequential difference between someone who is apathetic and someone who is supporting something, they can't even be compared.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Dead baby jokes should never be okay either but still I can lol at them. Do I now support infanticide?

People need to be less sensitive.

 

[Renth]

**** jokes, Racist jokes, offensive jokes are all Hilarious you know why?

They. Are. Jokes.

Lighten up.

 

[Luigitoilet]

A joke is always okay if it doesn't come from a malicious place. When you start censoring what people joke about, based on the hypothetical effect it may have on other people present is when things start to veer into thought policing.

which is about a trillion times worse than **** jokes.

 

[crawlshots]

**** jokes, Racist jokes, offensive jokes are all Hilarious you know why?

They. Are. Jokes.

Lighten up.

I wish it were that easy. :/ Jokes are often outworkings of people's selfish ulterior motives, malice, or ignorance, just in a humorous package. The humor doesn't absolve the comedian from selfishness or malice or ignorance. Making people laugh isn't THAT important, plus there are other ways to do it.

 

[TL?]

They're not really jokes. It's more used for hyperbole....

 

[Rohins]

Butting heads with etymological evolution, cute. This thread reminds me of something I read back when I lived in New York. It was in the papers, really crazy **** that happened in Kings Park NY.

Not sure if they're still around but back in the 90s there was grocery store called Key Food. Not uncommon with grocery stores, it had a liquor store right next store. I won't expose the people involved in the article, I'll call them 'Maria" (the mother) and "Stacey" (the daughter).

It was 1996, Maria and Stacey had agreed to go grocery shopping but to save some time Stacey was going to go to the liquor store while her mom picked up food for dinner. She was excited because it would be her first time buying liquor, having recently turned 21.

Maria goes in, grabs what she needs and returns to the car. She expected to see Stacey there waiting for her. She wasn't there. Pretty odd, since she was just going to pick up a couple bottles. Maria heads to the liquor store and notices it has a "Closed" sign. Strange, there was no reason for it to be closed.

Then she looked inside the store and saw broken bottles all over the floor. She panicked, ran to a telephone booth to call the police. The police showed up and forced open the door. There was a huge mess, broken bottles all the way down an aisle leading to door. They open the door which lead to stairs heading down, they could hear a woman screaming.

They go down the stairs and force open a door. It was disgusting. Stacey was tied up in a chair. The owner of the store was licking her all over her body. The worst part? The owner didn't even go to jail.

Spoiler

Of course he didn't, he had a liquor license.

**** Joke.

You're welcome.

 

[Spelt]

A joke is always okay if it doesn't come from a malicious place. When you start censoring what people joke about, based on the hypothetical effect it may have on other people present is when things start to veer into thought policing.

which is about a trillion times worse than **** jokes.

This.
So much this.

 

[Lord Chair]

all men are rapists

may have something to do with all those girls who agree on kissing but draw the line at slipping the tongue

 

[Vinylic.]

all men are rapists

may have something to do with all those girls who agree on kissing but draw the line at slipping the tongue

Was that supposed to mean something?

Because all I see here is nothing but a +1.

 

[Nicknyte]

I'm going to see if I can end this topic's underlying discussion of "Freedom of speech vs. People's Sensibilities (men can get ***** too you know (don't even laugh))"

Look, for me, and just for me, I don't personally like hearing or saying the word "****." Never have, never will. Even though I tend to associate with people who use this word, it doesn't mean I am going to lose my friend over it. Even if he was a rapist. Look, some people makes mistakes, and need some type of encouragement, but this is a subject for another day.

**** is never cool to say to people who are obviously offended by hearing it. I hate using Doll666(Emily) as an example of this, but I remember vividly of a Facebook argument she had with another girl who was fiercely mad at another smasher (male) who said **** in the conversation. Emily tried to tell her that the whole "****" thing was smasher centric, and even though she defended the use of the word, the more she defended it, the worse it made us look.

What it really comes down to is this: People are different, and although we want to change the way people think, some people do not care about others. And then some do care, but do not care enough. If you didn't know me, and you probably don't, and I screamed "GET *****!" loudly at a tournament, would you claim I was reacting off hype, or could it be that a little part of you really felt uncomfortable with me saying that? If you don't like hearing it, there is no reason not to pull someone to the side and say "Hey, I know you are having a good time, but words like that are not cool. Forced Sex is never cool." and you might sound like a *****, but you will let someone else know that the word is never cool to say. I don't say anything because I personally do not care much, but for someone who is really iffed? I think they should try to influence the ones near them.

No offense, but the internet (IMO) is a lost cause to convince. It takes local intervention.

People are entitled to say whatever they want. If you don't like it, take action to ask them not to say anything, but if they refuse, shame on them. At least you are trying.

 

[z00ted]

A joke is always okay if it doesn't come from a malicious place. When you start censoring what people joke about, based on the hypothetical effect it may have on other people present is when things start to veer into thought policing.

which is about a trillion times worse than **** jokes.

Thank you for typing what I was just about to say.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Rohins posted in my thread. My job here is done.

 

[Spelt]

Get *****, eikelmann's job.

 

[LLDL]

Reminds me a video I saw in my subscription box last month

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW2VfMghh3A

Edit: I find the rapists comrade thing interesting. Still, I've never laughed at a **** joke (participation), apart from that video there. The only use of the word I here often is in smash tournaments. Who would hang out with people who makes jokes out of it on the regular?

 

[Nicknyte]

Yes. Come and look at our stain on the internet.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 10 (8 members and 2 guests)
Nicknyte, Fuujin, Holder of the Heel, ZERO..., SFA aka SmileyFace, QPAC

 

[Spelt]

Yes. Come and look at our stain on the internet.

The ones you can't wash away are always the ones that come from ****.

 

[Fuujin]

dammit, you beat me to it.

Anyway, I don't see a problem with using the word "****" to describe something, as someone said above me, "Armada ***** Mango". It's just a hyperbolic way to mentally illustrate a humorous image of one person asserting their dominance over another.
If that's a problem, then we have to stop saying the word "beat", as in "Armada beat Mango". Because le gasp, that means you support battery and/or assault.

Wow.
You're an insensitive moron.

**** is in no way a "humorous image of one person asserting their dominance over another".
Seriously what the **** is wrong with you?

It's one thing the be ignorant, but it's another thing when you get called out yet you continue to try and make excuses for why your behavior is acceptable.
You seriously are the worst type of person, and I'm not sure why I granted you a response.
I can tell you're the type of person who won't admit when they've done something wrong, no madder how much it's proven.

Do they deserve such treatment? What about religion, which has quite a bloody history, and has been around ever since two civilizations with different religions have had encounters? What about those who were slaughtered because of something as harmless as personal beliefs?

Might as well prevent the use of everything that may hurt someone's feelings.


I still do not think **** jokes are funny though.

God forbid we ask people not to be offensive *******s without compromising their sense of humor.

A joke is always okay if it doesn't come from a malicious place. When you start censoring what people joke about, based on the hypothetical effect it may have on other people present is when things start to veer into thought policing.

which is about a trillion times worse than **** jokes.

**** jokes, Racist jokes, offensive jokes are all Hilarious you know why?

They. Are. Jokes.

Lighten up.

And you smashers REALLY wonder why you guys can never get a girlfriend and have girl problems?


I seriously cannot with you people and your excuses in this thread.

 

[Jim Morrison]

And you smashers REALLY wonder why you guys can never get a girlfriend and have girl problems

You keep projecting, I'm sure it'll work out for you one day.

EDIT: And I really wanted to believe I was dumb for replying to such an obvious troll but I doubt it.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Yeah I'm confused as to that entire post. I want to believe it was trolling. I want to.

 

[Fuujin]

You keep projecting, I'm sure it'll work out for you one day.

EDIT: And I really wanted to believe I was dumb for replying to such an obvious troll but I doubt it.

You keep denying when you do something wrong and continue to make excuses for it,
I'm sure that will work out for you one day.

That's one thing I respect about Spelt, he may be an ***, but at least he's self aware and doesn't try to justify the things he says by some self righteous, ignorant, half ***** excuse.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Not even making excuses for it, some people just cry when you make a joke about a subject they don't like and other people don't care when these people cry. It's how the world has worked for ages.

 

[BSP]

While I didn't really care the first few times seeing this issue come up, seeing it so often now does make me hesitate a little before I say **** in any circumstance now tbh. I try to just go with "Wrecked" since **** may offend some people.

 

[Fuujin]

Not even making excuses for it, some people just cry when you make a joke about a subject they don't like and other people don't care when these people cry. It's how the world has worked for ages.

Wumbo, Luigitoilet, Renth and Illmatic were all making excuses for it.

**** is more than a subject some people don't like, I'm honestly baffled by how you don't understand about this.
Perhaps instead of being so intent on defending your scewed ideology you should spend a little time researching the psychological, emotional, physical and long term effects **** can have on its victims.