why isnt melee HUGE?

[da K.I.D.]

sean considine, where have i heard that name before?

 

[=P.]

i know thats why i love melee so much more and really only care about how well i do in it bcuz its sexy like that

 

[earthadept]

I think melee is huge, when you consider how old it is.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

I dont know you tell me.

Both shooter and fighting games are the most technical genres of games out there.

I had to lol at this post at the beginning of the topic.

Professional RTS players are faster and smarter than any FPS player could ever dream of being.

 

[Falconv1.0]

One should note there's a decent amount of new players getting in that are getting pretty **** good pretty fast. It's not like it's just a bunch of pros jacking off to each other til no one is left. =/

Melee wont die anytime soon, it's basically the ST of Smash.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Also, I had to lol at Dogy trying to use a single quote from M2k saying 'sometimes I 3 stock ppl, sometime I 1 stock them' as proof that Melee is random.

If it's so random, why does M2k get beat by Mango EVERY time. Why do the same amazing players tend to win every tournament?

 

[StinkomanFan]

Well some people would say it would be the console it came out on was to blame, I say it's because some people are just brainless Sony/Microsoft fanboys who are ignorant enough to look over an entire console for something they claim is a better alternative despite it having less and less excellent games where you need stupid controllers I couldn't figure out until I was 12, and a failure of a follow-up that can't even play it's classics from 1 year ago!

 

[Masmasher@]

Also, I had to lol at Dogy trying to use a single quote from M2k saying 'sometimes I 3 stock ppl, sometime I 1 stock them' as proof that Melee is random.

If it's so random, why does M2k get beat by Mango EVERY time. Why do the same amazing players tend to win every tournament?

He meant the clashing of attacks dont always illicit the same response. That doesnt serve to say that the better player wont win. Also look at the part where the brackets are fixed. He does bring up a great point.

Also though the gamecube was great you cant really say that people are ignorant fanboys now cause save for a couple of games the wii is a piece of ****.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Fixed brackets are pretty gay but I wouldn't describe it as one of the main reasons people don't like the smash community. I've never heard any competitive player bring it up in other communities.

 

[Tomato Kirby]

I remember watching some Halo Tournament on TV (USA channel, I think) and saw SSBM playing in the background (teams on Rainbow Cruise).

Generations have grown up with video games. I wish video games were more popular. I was actually happy that at least one video game made it to television.

If Halo can get screen time, so can other games like SSB. In our fantasy worlds, we would like to at least see a video game channel on television; too bad so many factors are against it in reality.

Note: I did not read this entire thread, so it might be possible that some things I said might have been repeated. Oh well.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I talk to Jihnsius about this subject on AIM sometimes and the answer is pretty simple:

Melee is ridiculously technical without being ridiculously deep. Thus it has a learning curve that doesn't feel rewarding. The community is also not great. Also, no one likes to lose for six months while learning to consistently wave dash. It is easier to grow with a community than it is to jump into an eight year old one and try to fit in.

The first point is the most important though; Melee is a caricature of a technical fighting game. You have to learn all of these extremely difficult ATs to compete, but that just puts you on the ground level. Barely. The ATs are not options. They are not mix-ups. They are baseline, they are required. Everyone does them and several times a match. So in the end, they feel like timesinks and requirements, not like achievements. No one goes "holy **** that guy wave dashed that guy!" when you do it, because that doesn't make sense.

Despite Brawl's flaws (and it does have a lot of them) I think it being simple is actually one its best qualities. I prefer it to two guys out-teching each other for 3 minutes.

It's not like it's just a bunch of pros jacking off to each other til no one is left. =/

That's what it feels like. And those pros are elitists who pretty much constantly laugh at/mock Brawl and Brawl players and then wonder why their community is shrinking.

 

[Tomato Kirby]

First:

...The community is also not great...

If the community is not that great, why did you bother to become a Smash Director?


Now then:

...Melee is ridiculously technical without being ridiculously deep. Thus it has a learning curve that doesn't feel rewarding...Also, no one likes to lose for six months while learning to consistently wave dash. It is easier to grow with a community than it is to jump into an eight year old one and try to fit in.

The first point is the most important though; Melee is a caricature of a technical fighting game. You have to learn all of these extremely difficult ATs to compete, but that just puts you on the ground level. Barely. The ATs are not options. They are not mix-ups. They are baseline, they are required. Everyone does them and several times a match. So in the end, they feel like timesinks and requirements, not like achievements.

This post is begging for a debate about technical v.s. mental depth and overall competitive value. I will ignore that.

Your post sounds like this: "If you cannot do Infinite Drill-Shine Combos in your sleep, you did not master the basics." True, there are a LOT of aspects to memorize in SSBM. What can I say? Several other games and sports take a long time to get good at. I feel rewarded while traveling the learning curve. I was gaining a deeper respect and appreciation for what I am learning, such as SSBM. Chess is a nice parallel. I played it for most of my life and only recently I have started grasping higher concepts and strategies.

Learning and mastering the basics (such as several ATs like wavedashing), however, does NOT take 6 months. These "extremely difficult ATs" are just the basics working in tandem. That Infinite Drill-Shine Combo is simply a SH D-Air with L-Cancel and wavedashing over and over. Individually, they are simple enough to do. Learning to use these techniques together, however, is a sign of competitive competency. Smashers who are the best at applying these concepts together (through long practice) emerge on top. If someone is playing to win the entire tournament, then what you say is true. The average tournament smasher hoping to learn and improve, however, knowing at least the basic ATs and can apply them together efficiently, stands a competitive chance against at least some of the field. A Fox does not need the minimum skill of doing Infinite Drill-Shine Combo to be competitive.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Perhaps I am entirely wrong. However, I must question yours.

Despite Brawl's flaws (and it does have a lot of them) I think it being simple is actually one its best qualities.

Yes, not having to perfect everything like in SSBM is a definite plus.

 

[Masmasher@]

I talk to Jihnsius about this subject on AIM sometimes and the answer is pretty simple:

Melee is ridiculously technical without being ridiculously deep. Thus it has a learning curve that doesn't feel rewarding. The community is also not great. Also, no one likes to lose for six months while learning to consistently wave dash. It is easier to grow with a community than it is to jump into an eight year old one and try to fit in.

The first point is the most important though; Melee is a caricature of a technical fighting game. You have to learn all of these extremely difficult ATs to compete, but that just puts you on the ground level. Barely. The ATs are not options. They are not mix-ups. They are baseline, they are required. Everyone does them and several times a match. So in the end, they feel like timesinks and requirements, not like achievements. No one goes "holy **** that guy wave dashed that guy!" when you do it, because that doesn't make sense.

Despite Brawl's flaws (and it does have a lot of them) I think it being simple is actually one its best qualities. I prefer it to two guys out-teching each other for 3 minutes.

That's what it feels like. And those pros are elitists who pretty much constantly laugh at/mock Brawl and Brawl players and then wonder why their community is shrinking.

You must understand.

Smash is not a traditional fighter. Its really a party fighter. It really wasnt desinged to be that deep.
With all the changes and rules we implemented into melee to make a competitive scene we got lucky, VERY LUCKY that it worked out and it was appealing. We happened to find a few niches in the games engine and it worked.

Brawl on the other hand was purposely desinged to deplete competition. the community has kept the same trends and rules that we used for melee and GOT LUCKY with. IT doesnt work for brawl. Characters are broken, hitboxes are bizarre, (snakes up tilt comes to mind) theres minicule hit stun which is unheard of when it comes to any sort of fighting game. 92% of the cast isnt usable. metaknight and snakes dominate. You guys have to have infintes to even have a decent matchup and your community depends too much on matchups. Basically brawls a$$ when you try to play it like melee. Plus brawl matches are boring as **** to watch.

I dont understand how you guys even have a community still. Most people just want money. When noobs spend money just to get hoed out by a garbage metaknight. you cant even get tips to really improve. When you lose most people say No johns (i hate that ****).

Most of your community consists of players that have never played a traditional fighter and think they know what a deep game is. They are snotty and idiotic. They wonder why tournaments see the same trends and winners with the same character. Alas most are dogs chasing their tail and wonder why other communites scorn them.

 

[ChRed2AKrisp]

What's actually funny is that lots of smash players think smash is a very technical fighter game.

It's not. It's actually much weaker in a technical aspect in comparison to other popular fighting games.

What makes it harder is not tech, but strategy. Other fighters have straight combos. As in, if you hit with a certain move, it is 100% guarenteed to lead into x other moves. Smash isn't like that. We have DI, teching, etc, all which make combos infinitely variable. Other fighters don't have equivalents really to those. IMO smash requires alot more thought than it does button presses. Obviously there are some technical aspects of smash that are very hard to do from the stand point of any game, but how many of them actually come into play? Multishining is about the hardest thing out there, and it doesn't have a ton of use. The so called "advanced techs" that we do, like lcanceling, wavedashing, short hopping, etc, are all incredibly easy to learn. I taught my friend how to do the basics in a couple days. It takes a HELL of lot longer to learn what moves are appropriate in what situation, how to tech chase, DI properly, etc than it does to learn anything that is technically difficult.

and for the people saying you can boil shooters down aiming and firing, i say you can boil smash down to hitting them until they die. You can't EVER simplify any game like that.

That being said, the learning curve for smash is NOT higher than halo or any other game. It seems like that because smash is such an old game, and the people on the tournament scene are all well versed in the mechanics of the game and have been playing it for quite a while. Furthermore, there's no scaled learning system. In halo 3, you have and online ranking system. You start off playing against equally crappy people, and as you get better you play against better people. and it works because of halo 3's relatively recent release. If you go online and play Halo 2, you're going to have trouble, because most of the people still playing that online are people who have been playing it since it came out, and can RRX, BXR, quad shot, etc.

That all being said the reason why Halo 3 is big in MLG and ssbm is not is simply the number of players in the community. While it is true that in Halo 3 you still can't jump into Halo 3 and play MLG competitively, if you see the game being played at a competitive level and decide you want to do that, it's easy to start learning because of that thing called xbox live. If MLG started running SSBM tourneys again, we would have entrants, sure enough, but how would we fare by way of viewership? MLG is a business, and like any business, they want profit. SSBM simply can't bring in the viewers Halo 3 can. If a tourney was held, maybe we'd get a decent amount viewers, and some would say, "wow, that looks really cool, looks like it would be fun to learn!". Then they would go get a cheapo gc, the game etc., and would want to start playing. But what do they do then? They only have two options. They can convince friends to play, in which case they are playing only with other people who have no idea what they're doing, and they won't really progress at all, or they can go to a tourney, and get completely destroyed by people who won't even want to play with them because they won't really be worth their time. The new smash player then has his confidence destroyed, doesn't have fun, and ultimately drops the game.

Those of us who started the game when it came out were in a unique position. We started learning/playing together, and therefore progressed together.

Now it IS possible for someone to get into smash with no experience, it's just very hard. Most likely it's only going to happen if the new smasher is friends with someone in the competitive scene who won't mind spending alot of time playing with someone who's really bad at the game, because they're friends.

There's sort of a group of skill that every smasher wants to play with seriosuly. If I have skill level 7, I wouldn't mind playing with someone who is a 4 because they at least know how to DI and such, and I'll be able to practice combos and so forth. I'll also want to play against 10s because I can practice DI and things that are more advanced, recovery, etc. I need to play people who are better and worse than me to practice.

But the smasher coming in as a 1, I'm not going to want to play with him, because it won't be good practice. He's not playing like someone you would play in a tournament because he doesn't know what he's doing. It wouldn't be fun for me or for him.

So in summary, it's possible for the community to grow, but without a progressive ranking system and online like halo 3 has, it's impossible for us to draw in the popularity and viewers that Halo 3 does, and therefore MLG has no incentive to support us.

The only way to get SSBM made popular is if nintendo rereleased it, maybe with wii controls added as an option, and also added a progressively ranked online mode.

 

[LLDL]

so biased. That last part u added was sadly true though..

 

[SDC]

sean considine, where have i heard that name before?

i am everywhere. i am anonymous!! lol jk but coincidentally there is a football player of the same name, a safety who used to play for the eagles, i used them in madden cuz mcnabb is awesome, but then i used his name for a name of a character in a screenplay that i'm writing, his nickname is "the don" because of his imitation of mobster films, where the "don" burns people alive 0_0. its going to be a dark film, yes....

i digress, this thread just goes on and on, aparently more people wanna argue about how their fave game is being killed by the ****** police, aka nintendo.

 

[Dogysamich]

Also, I had to lol at Dogy trying to use a single quote from M2k saying 'sometimes I 3 stock ppl, sometime I 1 stock them' as proof that Melee is random.

If it's so random, why does M2k get beat by Mango EVERY time. Why do the same amazing players tend to win every tournament?

Of all the reasons I listed for this game to be random (actual stage randomness, hit detection, etc), do you really think it's a good idea to argue player (in)consistency?

If "the same amazing players" win every time, that's more of a reason for people NOT to get into the game. Apparently there's a wall that people can never get over. Take mango out of the cali equation, aside from like shinobi and spectre, everybody else should quit over there because s**t cant "just happen" and they mess up. Especially in a game where you can literally lose to yourself.

 

[Falconv1.0]

The idea that Melee is overly technical screams that your understanding of other fighters is equal to that of my dog.

 

[:mad:]

I talk to Jihnsius about this subject on AIM sometimes and the answer is pretty simple:

Melee is ridiculously technical without being ridiculously deep. Thus it has a learning curve that doesn't feel rewarding. The community is also not great. Also, no one likes to lose for six months while learning to consistently wave dash. It is easier to grow with a community than it is to jump into an eight year old one and try to fit in.

The first point is the most important though; Melee is a caricature of a technical fighting game. You have to learn all of these extremely difficult ATs to compete, but that just puts you on the ground level. Barely. The ATs are not options. They are not mix-ups. They are baseline, they are required. Everyone does them and several times a match. So in the end, they feel like timesinks and requirements, not like achievements. No one goes "holy **** that guy wave dashed that guy!" when you do it, because that doesn't make sense.

Despite Brawl's flaws (and it does have a lot of them) I think it being simple is actually one its best qualities. I prefer it to two guys out-teching each other for 3 minutes.



That's what it feels like. And those pros are elitists who pretty much constantly laugh at/mock Brawl and Brawl players and then wonder why their community is shrinking.

The Melee community's one of the easiest to jump in because there might be maybe 4 people on each character board, with the exception of the Fox boards that have 14,000.

You also seem to put a lot of emphasis on wavedashing, like that's the only thing about Melee you know. Stick to Brawl, the community's amazingly intelligent and everyone knows what they're talking about.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235783

 

[Masmasher@]

dogysamich you forgot ZHU lmfao
Though i think everybody in that area is sick.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

The Melee community's one of the easiest to jump in because there might be maybe 4 people on each character board, with the exception of the Fox boards that have 14,000.

You also seem to put a lot of emphasis on wavedashing, like that's the only thing about Melee you know. Stick to Brawl, the community's amazingly intelligent and everyone knows what they're talking about.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235783

For the most part, I avoid the online Brawl community, too. I stick to specific threads in tactical discussion and the character boards, which you've probably noticed.

I used wave dashing as an example because it is iconic, not because that is all I know.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Brawl on the other hand was purposely desinged to deplete competition.

Just like Melee.

Characters are broken

Every fighter has broken characters. Fox, Marth and Sheik in Melee are pretty ridiculous and there are "truly" competitive fighters with even more extreme characters (Old Sagat or Hilde from SC).

hitboxes are bizarre, (snakes up tilt comes to mind)

There are bizarre hitboxes in Melee too ... Fox bair for example.
Also, I have no idea how that translates into uncompetitive

theres minicule hit stun which is unheard of when it comes to any sort of fighting game.

Again, this doesn't translate into uncompetitive.

You just can't handle the fact that Brawl is differemt. I assume that SFP was referring to this kind of attitude when he said that Melee community isn't good.

"Oh god, this game doesn't have hitstun ... so it sucks" QQ

92% of the cast isnt usable. metaknight and snakes dominate.

That's some serious BS. You don't seem to have any knowledge about Brawl. Diddy Kong, Falco and Wario are perfectly viable and so are ICs and Pikachu.
MK only dominates small scrub tournaments ... big tourneys with lots of good players like Apex don't get ***** by MK or one single character.

Marth won more than 50% of all big melee tournaments all by himself. Now that's broken stuff.

You guys have to have infintes to even have a decent matchup and your community depends too much on matchups. Basically brawls a$$ when you try to play it like melee. Plus brawl matches are boring as **** to watch.

I dont understand how you guys even have a community still. Most people just want money. When noobs spend money just to get hoed out by a garbage metaknight. you cant even get tips to really improve. When you lose most people say No johns (i hate that ****).

Most of your community consists of players that have never played a traditional fighter and think they know what a deep game is. They are snotty and idiotic. They wonder why tournaments see the same trends and winners with the same character. Alas most are dogs chasing their tail and wonder why other communites scorn them.

You're dumb. Any people like you wonder why Brawl players dislike our community...

 

[Masmasher@]

alas lol i was waiting for someone dumb to come in...
Gheb you always try to rage your way into a discussion but in the end you just sound idiotic.

Just like Melee.

Every fighter has broken characters. Fox, Marth and Sheik in Melee are pretty ridiculous and there are "truly" competitive fighters with even more extreme characters (Old Sagat or Hilde from SC).

thats rubbish and you know it. Old Sagat was redesigned in HD remix to be formidable but not broken. The games engine unlike your worthless brawl supports him. As for hilde the only thing thats broken is charge 2 relaunching off of air hit 44k and that can be patched. also doom combo only stems off of charge 3a/b. Look at tournament statistics she doesnt even dominate more or less even win a majority of her touraments. Learn to throw. Also utlize 50/50 mixup. Heck she only truly deadly on the raft stage and the maze stage. How are fox marth and sheik broken. please elaborate (although you never have been one to do so). Ill do it for meta knight. Sword has laser properties, coupled with his off stage game means free gimp on most of the cast. pikachu is suddenly godly cause of rubbish camping and her down throw. Tell me this what can you do to follow up metaknight. How do you stop him from eating your shields with dairs and nados? Alas no hit stun. rubbish auto sweet spot. What can you do to stop planking? Your community cant even decide whether to ban him or not.

There are bizarre hitboxes in Melee too ... Fox bair for example.
Also, I have no idea how that translates into uncompetitive

Well then you are just thick headed. A tilt reaches a character space and a 1/2 over, a character has transendant priority, several characters have infinite grabs, planking which in its true form you cant stop. This is a blatent ***** slap by the creator that this game shouldnt be very competititive

Again, this doesn't translate into uncompetitive.

Yes your right. Putting walnuts in your mouth can be competitive, sticking used condoms in your pockets can be competitive that dont mean its should be made into a olympic sport.

You just can't handle the fact that Brawl is differemt. I assume that SFP was referring to this kind of attitude when he said that Melee community isn't good.

No go ahead and play your game. Truthfully i dont have the time nor have the patience to design a cult to boycott it all day. But ill put it like this...
I have playdoh(melee) you have dog **** (brawl). I use play doh to mold and make shapes and play around with it. You use the dog **** for the same purpose, a modeling compound. we both are in art class. If someone asked me what i was playing with then i would simply say i'm playing with playdoh. If someone asked you what your playing with you cant lie and say you are playing with playdoh.. You are playing with dog ****.
In other words.
You like brawl cause you like it. But dont try to convince anyone with half a brain that its a great game.

"Oh god, this game doesn't have hitstun ... so it sucks" QQ

If you played any other fighter seriousely then you can reconize why it does suck.

That's some serious BS. You don't seem to have any knowledge about Brawl. Diddy Kong, Falco and Wario are perfectly viable and so are ICs and Pikachu.
MK only dominates small scrub tournaments ... big tourneys with lots of good players like Apex don't get ***** by MK or one single character.

7/36 characters 81% of characters non usable... whoops my bad. Oh and that was sarcasm.
what about banning 3/4 of stages.

Marth won more than 50% of all big melee tournaments all by himself. Now that's broken stuff.

8 years running though

You're dumb. People like you wonder why Brawl players dislike our community...

I wouldnt care most of them are dumb in the first place.
oh and fixed your quote.


Also I love how you cherry picked my post and didnt acknowledge the other half of what I said.

 

[CRASHiC]

Anyone who argues about the game's intention is making a horrible argument, because BOTH games were intended to be party games, and implying that Brawl was made to keep competitive smash out is not based in anything other than opinion, and goes what has been said in interviews about the elements trying to make the game more aerial based, thus why floaty characters, tripping, ledge hugging, multi air doges, granting characters without a great aerial game a wonderful anti aerial game (sonic's spring, snake's uptilit and usmash), and auto canceling. But besides the fact, BOTH games are essentially party games at their core, and arguing about Brawl's intention when Melee had the same intention is foolish.

Also, an argument was made about grab infinities. Well guess what, they put in a grab infinite in Street Fighter on purpose.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/street-fighter-hd-remix-honda.html

When the players were discussing ochio throw nerfs, I once blurted out that Honda deserved to do 100% damage with that move if it hit Guile.

Maybe you are the one who needs to play some other fighters than smash.

As for technical skill, chess and pokemon have no technical skill, and are far more popular competitively than either Smash game. What makes a game competitive is the community, NOT the game or the game's mechanics. If you community finds a way to make it competitive, then it is a competitive game. This ranges from poker to rock paper siczors. No matter how much tech skill, no matter how much depth is programed into the game, it is the community (or lack there of) that decides weather or not a game is competitive.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

thats rubbish and you know it. Old Sagat was redesigned in HD remix to be formidable but not broken.

...

As for hilde the only thing thats broken is charge 2 relaunching off of air hit 44k and that can be patched.

Redesigned ... patched ... I think you know as well as me that that's not the way the game was originally designed. It's like comparing B to B+.

Besides you dodged my point: Melee is just as uncompetitive as Brawl is. You have to ban stages and items. It was not designed to be competitive. Adress this point or else you are a troll.

How are fox marth and sheik broken. please elaborate (although you never have been one to do so).

Fox: No bad match-up, CP stages make 90% of his match-up's complete ****. Like MK, except that Fox can kill his opponents at 80%.
Sheik: Has 7/3 or higher match-up's against ~75% of the cast. She basically makes every characters except a few unviable.
Marth: Ridic grab range + CG + guaranteed KO when the opponent is offstage = le broké

Ill do it for meta knight. Sword has laser properties, coupled with his off stage game means free gimp on most of the cast.

Free gimps against idiots. A **** hard time killing against good players, however.

He has to beat most of his opponents all the way up to 180% to kill them and he has few moves that deal more than 10%. He has also one one rather predictable and punishable KO move (dsmash) and even a medium-weight like Mario can survive a fresh one at 160%.
He has one of the worst air releases and many characters can force him to air release, which results in CGs and guaranteed KO moves. His shield is complete garbage and easy as **** to stab.

pikachu is suddenly godly cause of rubbish camping and her down throw.

Pikachu also has mobility, one of the best moves to momentum cancel + skull bash breaking, a very good recovery, good grab follow ups and many options to deal good damage.

Pikachu isn't godly btw.

Tell me this what can you do to follow up metaknight.

I can dthrow him with Snake and chase him for 21% from a dtilt. Or I can get a guaranteed utilt if I read his roll right. I can regrab him to deal like 40% from a dthrow chase.
I can CG -> fsmash him to ~70% with Falco/Pikachu
I can dthrow -> techchase/dsmash him with D3
I can throw a banana at him with diddy kong for a guaranteed KO set-up at ~140%
I can dair -> 3x utilt him with Fox for ~45% damage (which is half of MKs stock against MK)
I can FF nair -> dsmash at 100% with Wolf, which is a guaranteed KO at 140%

Want more?

How do you stop him from eating your shields with dairs and nados?

I beat out those moves. Plain and simple.
Or I SDI out of the tornado and beat it. I don't even need my shield to do that. Learn to SDI.

What can you do to stop planking?

You can't stop it in Melee.

In Brawl I can:

Attack the planker with the bike -> upB/dair as Wario
Throw grenades out of jump + C4
Throw a banana + sex kick
Use thunder jolts + sex kick
Use Ice Blocks + Sex kick
Use Bombs + Sex kicks
Shine Stall + Sex kick

There's a window of at least 10 frames to attack a planking MK JFYI.

The brawl community cant even decide whether to ban him or not.

(minor correction)

The Brawl commnity is a bunch of scrubs. But what does it have to do with the game?

several characters have infinite grabs

very few characters do

infinites exist in Melee too.

planking which in its true form you cant stop.

It can't be stopped in Melee if done right.
It can in Brawl though.

This is a blatent ***** slap by the creator that this game shouldnt be very competititive

Blatant or not: The same applies to Melee.

Yes your right. Putting walnuts in your mouth can be competitive, sticking used condoms in your pockets can be competitive that dont mean its should be made into a olympic sport.

You like brawl cause you like it. But dont try to convince anyone with half a brain that its a great game.

I'm not trying to convince anybody that Brawl is a great game.
I'm just trying to show foolish, blinded fanboys like you that Melee isn't competitive and that all of your complaints about Brawl being uncompetitive apply to Melee as well.

Melee is a *** broken game, that needs to ban several stages and all items to be used for competitive play. That's what it comes down to...

Oh, and where exactly is that half brain of yours?

If you played any other fighter seriousely then you can reconize why it does suck.

You can realize it but you don't have to, especially if you're smart.

7/36 characters 81% of characters non usable... whoops my bad. Oh and that was sarcasm.
what about banning 3/4 of stages.

Bannin 3/4 of the stages? Like in Melee?

8 years running though

Yes, not even in 8 years there was a way to stop Marth from dominating.

Also I love how you cherry picked my post and didnt acknowledge the other half of what I said.

That's a perfect line I should slap in your face but I doubt you would understand that sentencees implication.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

I just don't understand why Sakurai had to **** with a truly great game so much. The creation of the watered down version of melee pretty much split the community apart... when it could have been one big community right now.

 

[thaOrleanyte]

GoW is extremely technical at higher levels of play

Melee is still a better game where a really good played can shine

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The creation of the watered down version of melee pretty much split the community apart... when it could have been one big community right now.

It is perfectly possible to have one big community. In fact it's actually the case right now - just look at Genesis. It's the hatred of our community towards Brawl/their players that splits the communities apart, sadly. Of course Brawl players don't want to have anything to do with Melee players when they shove all that "Brawl sux olololo"-BS down their throats.
If Melee players only started to realize that the our community suffers just as much from that hatred... (I wish everybody would just play both games -_-)

Edit: This is also why I turned away from the Melee community...

 

[CRASHiC]

Blazblue is a watered down version of Guilty Gear, and yet their community does just fine. They understand that they can play two different games with two different skill levels without hurting the other. There is no reason for such hatred on either side.

 

[Masmasher@]

Redesigned ... patched ... I think you know as well as me that that's not the way the game was originally designed. It's like comparing B to B+.

Theres better game design and a original implanted way to stop it. Also patches help. so dont complain.

Besides you dodged my point: Melee is just as uncompetitive as Brawl is. You have to ban stages and items. It was not designed to be competitive. Adress this point or else you are a troll.

Read my other posts on this thread. Read them. Also brawl was desinged to be uncompeititive. You are the troll trying to make this into a brawl vs melee thread. go to Srk and try this crap.

Fox: No bad match-up, CP stages make 90% of his match-up's complete ****. Like MK, except that Fox can kill his opponents at 80%.
Sheik: Has 7/3 or higher match-up's against ~75% of the cast. She basically makes every characters except a few unviable.
Marth: Ridic grab range + CG + guaranteed KO when the opponent is offstage = le broké

Sheik is false she makes bad matchups but they arent making the cast inviable
the chain grab unlike your garb infinties can be di of. Plus you nartually need more damage to kill in brawl so the fox point is moot.

Free gimps against idiots. A **** hard time killing against good players, however.

He has to beat most of his opponents all the way up to 180% to kill them and he has few moves that deal more than 10%. He has also one one rather predictable and punishable KO move (dsmash) and even a medium-weight like Mario can survive a fresh one at 160%.
He has one of the worst air releases and many characters can force him to air release, which results in CGs and guaranteed KO moves. His shield is complete garbage and easy as **** to stab.

He gimps. also when are you gonna get to shield stab a good metaknight. Also no follow ups

Pikachu also has mobility, one of the best moves to momentum cancel + skull bash breaking, a very good recovery, good grab follow ups and many options to deal good damage.

Pikachu isn't godly btw.

I dont care. Stop advertising your game

I can dthrow him with Snake and chase him for 21% from a dtilt. Or I can get a guaranteed utilt if I read his roll right. I can regrab him to deal like 40% from a dthrow chase.
I can CG -> fsmash him to ~70% with Falco/Pikachu
I can dthrow -> techchase/dsmash him with D3
I can throw a banana at him with diddy kong for a guaranteed KO set-up at ~140%
I can dair -> 3x utilt him with Fox for ~45% damage (which is half of MKs stock against MK)
I can FF nair -> dsmash at 100% with Wolf, which is a guaranteed KO at 140%

Want more?

All these situations claim the fact that the mk is rubbish. I like how you try to downplay Mk like the player cant be just as good as you. Also broken chain grab.

I beat out those moves. Plain and simple.
Or I SDI out of the tornado and beat it. I don't even need my shield to do that. Learn to SDI.

Stop trying to make me play brawl. Also you are snake so this doesnt help you cause

You can't stop it in Melee.

In Brawl I can:

Attack the planker with the bike -> upB/dair as Wario
Throw grenades out of jump + C4
Throw a banana + sex kick
Use thunder jolts + sex kick
Use Ice Blocks + Sex kick
Use Bombs + Sex kicks
Shine Stall + Sex kick

There's a window of at least 10 frames to attack a planking MK JFYI.

Give me the frame data for ledge stall before you make a ridiculous claim for melee.

The Brawl commnity is a bunch of scrubs. But what does it have to do with the game?

The game is ****. Also thanks for admitting that you community is a bunch of idiots. That really makes me want to play brawl (sarcasm)
very few characters do

infinites exist in Melee too.

All psudo save the wall infinite and can be di out of


It can't be stopped in Melee if done right.
It can in Brawl though.

Blatant or not: The same applies to Melee.

No.. Sakurai went out of his way to make brawl uncompetitive. Its crap By the way its becoming more obvious that you dont know anything about other fightng games or melee. Especially with teh crap you tried to pull with hilde. You probably saw doom combo and said "oh i can use this as evidence." Learn the aspects of broken also.

I'm not trying to convince anybody that Brawl is a great game.
I'm just trying to show foolish, blinded fanboys like you that Melee isn't competitive and that all of your complaints about Brawl being uncompetitive apply to Melee as well.

Melee is a *** broken game, that needs to ban several stages and all items to be used for competitive play. That's what it comes down to...

Oh, and where exactly is that half brain of yours?

Good cause its not a good game. I'll say it again you prbably dont play other fighting games and dont really know about melee

Bannin 3/4 of the stages? Like in Melee?

Ratio wise its not as bad. plus brawl has more stages. Also counterpick=/=banned

Yes, not even in 8 years there was a way to stop Marth from dominating.

Have you looked at recent tournament results? this is how i can tell you dont play melee.

That's a perfect line I should slap in your face but I doubt you would understand that sentencees implication.

Yeah physical threats over the internet. You sound more like a idiot every sentence.

You are an moron read the thread. Read my previous posts. You troll. This really isnt about brawl and you trying to make it so. Go play it.

 

[Masmasher@]

Anyone who argues about the game's intention is making a horrible argument, because BOTH games were intended to be party games, and implying that Brawl was made to keep competitive smash out is not based in anything other than opinion, and goes what has been said in interviews about the elements trying to make the game more aerial based, thus why floaty characters, tripping, ledge hugging, multi air doges, granting characters without a great aerial game a wonderful anti aerial game (sonic's spring, snake's uptilit and usmash), and auto canceling. But besides the fact, BOTH games are essentially party games at their core, and arguing about Brawl's intention when Melee had the same intention is foolish.

Also, an argument was made about grab infinities. Well guess what, they put in a grab infinite in Street Fighter on purpose.

http://www.sirlin.net/articles/street-fighter-hd-remix-honda.html


Maybe you are the one who needs to play some other fighters than smash.

As for technical skill, chess and pokemon have no technical skill, and are far more popular competitively than either Smash game. What makes a game competitive is the community, NOT the game or the game's mechanics. If you community finds a way to make it competitive, then it is a competitive game. This ranges from poker to rock paper siczors. No matter how much tech skill, no matter how much depth is programed into the game, it is the community (or lack there of) that decides weather or not a game is competitive.

READ THE WHOLE THREAD BEFORE YOU PUT IN YOUR TWO CENTS.
thank you.

Its cute all these brawl junkies coming to defend their rubbish cause they dont like what they hear but they dont read.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

It is perfectly possible to have one big community. In fact it's actually the case right now - just look at Genesis. It's the hatred of our community towards Brawl/their players that splits the communities apart, sadly. Of course Brawl players don't want to have anything to do with Melee players when they shove all that "Brawl sux olololo"-BS down their throats.
If Melee players only started to realize that the our community suffers just as much from that hatred... (I wish everybody would just play both games -_-)

Edit: This is also why I turned away from the Melee community...

If you played melee at a highly competitive level... its ****ing hard to take brawl seriously. I'm actually pretty solid in brawl, but the game is just not as good. I see no reason to play it. People split the community apart because one game is hard and one game is easy. All the new people want to play the easy game, without even having experienced highly competitive melee. Either way... the creating of a much different game than melee effectively split the community, people only want to play the game they feel is better. Unfortunately, most of the brawl players are sadly misinformed as to the nature of both games when making their choice of which game to play.

 

[Masmasher@]

Just to reiterate play what you want. You like brawl cause you like it then thats whats up. But dont try to tell me that the game is a great game. There are WAY better fighting games out there.

 

[CRASHiC]

READ THE WHOLE THREAD BEFORE YOU PUT IN YOUR TWO CENTS.
thank you.

Its cute all these brawl junkies coming to defend their rubbish cause they dont like what they hear but they dont read.

I advise you to at shoot down one thing I have said in that post. You have complletly avoided responding to any of the points I made.

However,
STOP *****IN ABOUT BRAWL IN THIS THREAD

This thread is not about Melee being better.
Its asking why Melee isn't a more popular game than it is. Is is COMPLETELY off topic to ***** and argue about Brawl, because Brawl in no way hurts or steals Melee's market. *****ing about Brawl might make you feel good, but it is not relevant in this thread.

 

[Masmasher@]

I advise you to at shoot down one thing I have said in that post. You have complletly avoided responding to any of the points I made.

However,
STOP *****IN ABOUT BRAWL IN THIS THREAD

This thread is not about Melee being better.
Its asking why Melee isn't a more popular game than it is. Is is COMPLETELY off topic to ***** and argue about Brawl, because Brawl in no way hurts or steals Melee's market. *****ing about Brawl might make you feel good, but it is not relevant in this thread.

You didnt read my earlier posts did you.
Its simple go to the thread click on the post count and click my name. Im not shooting down your points. But i dont have to. READ THE ENTRE THREAD. Then you will see why your two cents wasnt needed.
Also why are you coming over to the melee boards just to hassle peoples opinions. We didnt go to the brawl disscusion and ***** there so why are you over here. ALSO LOOK AT THE QUOTE ABOVE YOU. I know how you dont like to read some times.

If you dont read then your an idiot and trolling just to give this topic trouble.

Also brawl is newer people are lazy so yes is does have a adverse effect on melee.

 

[GofG]

Why does Dogysamich know so little about this game?

 

[SDC]

dam, just as i thought this thread was done with, a bunch of brawl fanboys come in to inject it with new life :D

@crashic
"Its asking why Melee isn't a more popular game than it is. Is is COMPLETELY off topic to ***** and argue about Brawl, because Brawl in no way hurts or steals Melee's market. *****ing about Brawl might make you feel good, but it is not relevant in this thread"

are you ****ing crazy? lol no offense, but you've got to be insane to make that statement. no of course brawl doesn't hurt melee's market, other then the fact that:

1. brawl is the new game, and thus people who used to play melee will go to the new game, hoping it is just as good. just because of the fact that brawl came out with alot of hype and hopes and sucked in alot of competitive and non-competitive melee players (like me) who were thinking that the game is/would be awesome (we were wrong of course lol but whatever everyone makes mistakes). i came back to melee after i became fed up with brawl's ****, but alot of melee players have stuck with brawl once they picked it up, because:

2. Brawl is the most recent game in the series, and as such, it is the most widely focused on (MLG replacing melee's spot on their list with brawl), and is going to be considered the "future of the series". aka "melee was great, but brawl is here and probably here to stay, and the next game will probably be more like brawl, so just stick with brawl". brawl is the current game. unfortunately this give brawl more unfair support, both official (tourneys, sponsors, consoles) and from:

3. n00bs. lol which game do you think new smashers are going to play??? really. which game do you think a bunch of unskilled rookies (who have never even heard of the phrase "wavedash") are going to pick up? the game that was popular and extremely well recieved and loved for the gamecube a while ago, or that new one for the wii? which game is going to be picked up by the bored halo nerds, a game that requires you to do complex button combinations to just move across the stage, or the game that gets no more complex then a simple chaingrab? i cant believe this is an actual discussion, its obvious which game new players are going to gravitate to, the NEW (people love new) game that: is on the new system (the wii, i.e. the ******'s blackberry, the electronic fisher price), with new characters (it has SNAKE and SONIC OMFG!!!), with, due to the fact that it is newest game, has more mainstream tourney and sponsor support (MLG for example), is far easier to learn and master (in about 20 minutes), and was hyped for about 2 years.

in summary, yes lol, brawl hurts melee's market. and brawl is a ****tier game, does anyone wonder why all of melee's greats (mango, SS, darkrain, Taj, shiz, Chu, etc. etc.) all stick with melee? (and dont count M2K lol, he plays brawl because A. he's sick of getting his a$$ beat by mango, and B. metaknight is a cheap-a$$ motherfuker that he can **** with) why is melee after almost an entire decade still just as popular as the new game? melee is here to stay.

 

[Masmasher@]

Crashic i know you tryng to turn this into something dumb but i'll make it easier read my posts on pages 4,6 and 8 or better yet READ THE THREAD.

Edit: Sorry sean he probably needed to read that. lol you know how brawl boys tend to skim stuff.
Again read the thread

 

[Foxy]

Why does Dogysamich know so little about this game?

At least he isn't Xyro.

 

[SDC]

and yes masmasher you're right, the brawl boards and people are trash. i tried to listen to and eventually get along with these people, but after an agonizing year i finally gave up ("oh, you lost in a bull**** laggy-a$$ online match??? its ok noob you just need to work harder, you just need to get used to the LAG, oh and NO JOHNS about your character NOT FUKING RESPONDING within the first 2 seconds you press a button" a$$holes).

sorry for the rant lol, but i have found the brawl boards to be a miserable ****-fest