Why is shiek a counter for marth?

[Razgriz]

lmao@the last two posts.

did you actually read the thread? It's obvious sheik ***** Marth at a low level. But if you're losing to someone's Sheik who's not as good as you, then you simply aren't good anyway so it doesn't matter.

Ohoh, I see Plairnkk has no sympathy for the casual smash community. Well yes I agree with you. As my friend and I get better at the game I'm watching the disadvantage slip away. And I have little sympathy for Marths that lose to Sheiks in tournaments, because its their own fault for being narrow and being good with just one character. If Sheik is such a *****, develop one of your own, or follow the advice of Ken, and "switch to Fox and **** the ho."

 

[Hydde]

Marth can ruin sheiks with up throw up tilit game.

And you escape sheiks chaingrab by Di up. Most sheiks will trying for the other grab and will miss cuz you Di'd up.Not to sound like a elitist prick but. Dr. Steve brule how long have you been playing this game? Same goes with the rest of you. So far the only person i could really trust on opinion wise in here would be Bailey. Most of you have not been playing for 2 or even a year.... >.>

THx alot! iw as waiting this reply.-

 

[thatsmybutta]

sheik is a ****. no one can beat a ****.

 

[G@BE]

THx alot! iw as waiting this reply.-

Hurray!!! does this mean im amazing!?!?!?!

I think it does ^-^

Well this thread is still dumb, Now!!! i leave to go spam the regional threads!

 

[Reese]

This is thread is dumb becuase people cant decide what a 'counter' actually is, or what lvl of play is this thread aimed at(casual or professional ).

 

[Plairnkk]

switch to fox and **** the ho is probably the best advice given for marth vs sheik ever

 

[Kel]

...or learn ice climbers and counter FD for an instant win pretty much.

 

[G@BE]

or just stop complaining and get better?

 

[leviathan_]

Almost all Marths - suck at spacing / don't understand the concept of / don't know how / don't realize that spacing is essential for Marth. That's why they lose to a Sheik. Sheik is not a marth counter.

 

[Razgriz]

Almost all Marths - suck at spacing / don't understand the concept of / don't know how / don't realize that spacing is essential for Marth. That's why they lose to a Sheik. Sheik is not a marth counter.

What a horrible post. So full of negativity and blatant denial of the facts. Have you even read this thread? You haven't even put thought into this post. You simply stated that Marths suck, and they lose to Sheik because of lack of spacing. Sucking at spacing will make you lose to anybody, and has nothing to do with Sheik in particular. Please think before you post, and try to contribute something useful. Either that, or just read and don't say anything. I suspect you're one of those guys that's just surfing the forum and posting short useless posts to try and raise his post count.

 

[JBM falcon08]

just watch the MLG vegas ken vs kdj on youtube and just listen to the commentary of husband and wife to understand what sheik exactly has on marth, or we can just keep a good discussion going on talking about how sheik doesn't counter marth. she just whoops on him.

 

[leviathan_]

What a horrible post. So full of negativity and blatant denial of the facts. Have you even read this thread? You haven't even put thought into this post. You simply stated that Marths suck, and they lose to Sheik because of lack of spacing. Sucking at spacing will make you lose to anybody, and has nothing to do with Sheik in particular. Please think before you post, and try to contribute something useful. Either that, or just read and don't say anything. I suspect you're one of those guys that's just surfing the forum and posting short useless posts to try and raise his post count.

What a bunch of bombastic, empty words. There is a serious lack of dignity in that post to give it a substantial response.

 

[JBM falcon08]

^ Who do you Main?
Why is it that you say all marths suck at spacing, considering the people who have good spacing are all marth players because its so important. Marth's spacing is one of probably the top 5 essentials to playing him well, i don't think a person who knew they were bad at spacing would play as marth as a main unless they weren't a serious smasher.

People don't give enough credit to marth players, yeah he's not too hard to play as, but always being at the proper spacing isn't easy and if it were everyone would main marth because he'd be very hard to beat. he's not easy to play as.

 

[G@BE]

or just stop complaining and get better?

This guy is amazing, So far the best post yet.

 

[Reese]

haha you quoted yourself. QFT too lol

 

[Zephynazo]

IMO Sheik counter Marth, all the guys that have posted here have siad the answere to why that is.
And yeah, A vid that proves this is Ek vs Nihonjin Finals RoS3, check it out! (most of u have prolly seen this alrdy)

 

[dude225]

that vid is just horrible.... i feel so bad for EK every time i watch it... :/

in my previous post i never claimed i played pro status, i give myself about a 5-6 out of 10, while i give my friend about a 4-5....

a lvl 4-5 sheik will almost always beat a lvl 5-6 marth... (even with marth's up-tilt combo), but that is only my experience with it


(lol at ken's advice... it actually works)

 

[Razgriz]

^ Who do you Main?
Why is it that you say all marths suck at spacing, considering the people who have good spacing are all marth players because its so important. Marth's spacing is one of probably the top 5 essentials to playing him well, i don't think a person who knew they were bad at spacing would play as marth as a main unless they weren't a serious smasher.

People don't give enough credit to marth players, yeah he's not too hard to play as, but always being at the proper spacing isn't easy and if it were everyone would main marth because he'd be very hard to beat. he's not easy to play as.

Word to that!

IMO Sheik counter Marth, all the guys that have posted here have siad the answere to why that is.
And yeah, A vid that proves this is Ek vs Nihonjin Finals RoS3, check it out! (most of u have prolly seen this alrdy)

What's with guys that choose that ghost thing for their avatar? You and The Wrath of Kaorin should get together some time and practice spelling/typing.

 

[Hydde]

Well, ill say that even when marth can do some good things on sheik.... she just have to it too easy on marth.

Combos that juggle him too easy , a proyectile, tha lack of lag in her moves and the ability to combo from a grab at almost any% is obsene.

Yes, you can win, but i think tha no one can deny that sheik has an advantage against marth.

The main difference in a sheik vs marth battle is that When sheik can do some mistakes... Marth cant afford mistakes. Sheiks doenst need to much hits to kill marth, and this is an advantage for her.

 

[Hydde]

just watch the MLG vegas ken vs kdj on youtube and just listen to the commentary of husband and wife to understand what sheik exactly has on marth, or we can just keep a good discussion going on talking about how sheik doesn't counter marth. she just whoops on him.

Woah!!! i have never saw those fights... when this tournament took place?.

The 5 battles where just intense!!. Both players where very very skilled!!. Ken sometimes had the upper hand with his mind games but that sheik was crazy as hell.

and wife and husband where spot on in their comments

 

[JBM falcon08]

^ yes.

anyways, when you are being tilted by a sheik mainly with f-tilts, whats the best option to DI? away and up? away? away and down or just up? i've realized after playing with my college buddy when he came home this weekend that i get flustered very often against sheik and just DI towards her which didn't seem to workout all too well.

soo which is it? Plank i'd like an answer from you.

 

[G@BE]

This guy is amazing, So far the best post yet.

Oh man that guy sure is amazing i wish i could be like him!
oh wait...>.>

 

[Matsuki222p]

MUHAHAHA MAHJONG IM PICKING UP MARTH SO WATCH OUT!!!!! On the serious side, shieks throws wreck marth, and her close up style and quick comboing when close up causes her to almost cancel out his range. Not sure if I'm right or not, dont know much about this matchup.

 

[Plairnkk]

^ yes.

anyways, when you are being tilted by a sheik mainly with f-tilts, whats the best option to DI? away and up? away? away and down or just up? i've realized after playing with my college buddy when he came home this weekend that i get flustered very often against sheik and just DI towards her which didn't seem to workout all too well.

soo which is it? Plank i'd like an answer from you.

away. if they come afer you you can just fair them before they can egt a move off.

 

[JBM falcon08]

thanks plank i appreciate it.

 

[Emblem Lord]

It seems poeple just have different meanings of the word counter. IMO counter = Total ****.

The community pretty much agrees on the whole that Marth vs Shiek isnt total ****. Shiek has advantage on Marth. But for some, picking a character because they have advantage over another i.e counter picking, is proof that said character counters the other. In this case a counter character doesn't neccessarily **** the other. They just have advantage. That is M2k's point of view.

But everyone pretty much agrees that Marth vs Shiek is a fairly close match-up. It isn't **** and Shiek does have advantage. That's all that matters. IMO Shiek wins about 60% of the time, but the game always comes down to the last stock if the hands of 2 good players.

 

[Nightblade]

I'd say at very high levels, probably even. Why I would say Sheik > Marth is that if Sheik misses an L-cancel, you can still get away with it sometimes. If a Marth misses an L-cancel and the Sheik doesn't punish his carcass for it, the Sheik needs to put down the booze and pick up the controller.

 

[goateeguy]

i think it depends on skill level. When me and my friends were just learning the game, Marth was, like, the Fox of our smash world. Bringing him out meant business, lol. Now we realize that he needs advanced techs to make up for his laggy aers and lack of projectiles. i can take Marths apart with sheik now cuz sheik can just dash attack faster than marth can gety that sword of his over his head.

no clue where u (the starter of the thread) are in this, chances r ur probably better than me, anyway, just do ur best against sheiks or marths or whatever, and ull probably find this out for urself over time.

 

[Stryk9]

as you can see in KDj vs KEn

the shiek merely dthrows ftitl fair again and again and much props too kdj because its insanely effective but he also dtilt to fair, dair to fair

what im saying its as if marth had like 7 moves that combod pretty consistently into a fsmash

and i know fmash is more powerful when tipped than the fair of shiek but lets be realy,

sheiks fair has plenty of ****

 

[-Wolfy-]

Essentially Sheik can slow down Marth with needles and keepem honest while staying clsoe enoguh outside Marth long range to be ready for potential combo opportunities. Depends on the style of the Sheik and the Marth really.

 

[G@BE]

This Topic should be closed nothing really is going to be settled between the two...

 

[MuBa]

Imo Sheik can destroy Marth if she plays defensively. The tilts Sheik have can crush Marth since she can easily punish his laggy attacks if not properly L-Canceled.

And in areas like Final Destination or Corneria, Sheik can run around throwing needles at you all day long...trust me, I know someone whose done this to me SOOOO many times and got destroyed by them...

So in the end, for newbie to intermediate players, Sheik becomes a counter.
But for pros, Sheik is advantageous but can still be beaten.

 

[SamDvds]

Imo Sheik can destroy Marth if she plays defensively. The tilts Sheik have can crush Marth since she can easily punish his laggy attacks if not properly L-Canceled.

And in areas like Final Destination or Corneria, Sheik can run around throwing needles at you all day long...trust me, I know someone whose done this to me SOOOO many times and got destroyed by them...

So in the end, for newbie to intermediate players, Sheik becomes a counter.
But for pros, Sheik is advantageous but can still be beaten.

HAHAHA Corneria as a counterpick rocks! except when gay marth players at SMYM 7 camp under the wing until time runs out...and then says 'thats how the midwest plays'....sorry thats just how gay ppl play cuz everyone i know in the midwest actually fights instead of hiding under the wing of the ship and relying on time to win.

And the reason i can beat your marth with the needle/run away strategy, and this goes for most marth players, is cuz they try to jump over the needles then forward air and i just sheild grab...and it gets really predictable.

 

[Zephynazo]

Word to that!



What's with guys that choose that ghost thing for their avatar? You and The Wrath of Kaorin should get together some time and practice spelling/typing.

lol?O.o Stupid noob, what did i write that was not right typed there? >.>
If u mean that i wrote the word vid instead of video... and start claiming me for not typing right because of that, u got serious problems... baka>.>

btw, what my avatar is, is none of ur business.

 

[Tijaro]

Marth vs. Sheik - Advantage to...?

Essentially Sheik can slow down Marth with needles and keepem honest while staying clsoe enoguh outside Marth long range to be ready for potential combo opportunities. Depends on the style of the Sheik and the Marth really.

I completely agree. In a battle between a Marth and Sheik of equal skill level, it is difficult to determine who would come out on top, seeing as how those two characters generally have contrasting fighting styles. It depends on the flow of the battle; if Sheik manages to trip Marth up (esp. with Needles) and manage to get in very close to Marth, she can easily tear him up. However, with Marth's good reach, if he can manage to keep Sheik at a medium distance, then the advantage goes to Marth. I have played as Sheik and against Sheiks, and I know from experience their capabilities up-close. But I have the same experiences with Marth (although when I fought against Marths in the tournament I entered, they were all just a bunch of counter-happy defensive players), and I know that a good Marth can do TON of damage if they keep their opponent at arm's length. In the end, it chalks up to the players' fighting stlyes and the flow of the battle.

 

[G@BE]

Imo Sheik can destroy Marth if she plays defensively. The tilts Sheik have can crush Marth since she can easily punish his laggy attacks if not properly L-Canceled.

And in areas like Final Destination or Corneria, Sheik can run around throwing needles at you all day long...trust me, I know someone whose done this to me SOOOO many times and got destroyed by them...

So in the end, for newbie to intermediate players, Sheik becomes a counter.
But for pros, Sheik is advantageous but can still be beaten.

HAHAHA Corneria as a counterpick rocks! except when gay marth players at SMYM 7 camp under the wing until time runs out...and then says 'thats how the midwest plays'....sorry thats just how gay ppl play cuz everyone i know in the midwest actually fights instead of hiding under the wing of the ship and relying on time to win.

And the reason i can beat your marth with the needle/run away strategy, and this goes for most marth players, is cuz they try to jump over the needles then forward air and i just sheild grab...and it gets really predictable.

lol?O.o Stupid noob, what did i write that was not right typed there? >.>
If u mean that i wrote the word vid instead of video... and start claiming me for not typing right because of that, u got serious problems... baka>.>

btw, what my avatar is, is none of ur business.

I completely agree. In a battle between a Marth and Sheik of equal skill level, it is difficult to determine who would come out on top, seeing as how those two characters generally have contrasting fighting styles. It depends on the flow of the battle; if Sheik manages to trip Marth up (esp. with Needles) and manage to get in very close to Marth, she can easily tear him up. However, with Marth's good reach, if he can manage to keep Sheik at a medium distance, then the advantage goes to Marth. I have played as Sheik and against Sheiks, and I know from experience their capabilities up-close. But I have the same experiences with Marth (although when I fought against Marths in the tournament I entered, they were all just a bunch of counter-happy defensive players), and I know that a good Marth can do TON of damage if they keep their opponent at arm's length. In the end, it chalks up to the players' fighting stlyes and the flow of the battle.

People please read this thread.. this stuff has been said in every page ...

 

[SamDvds]

This Topic should be closed nothing really is going to be settled between the two...

For some one who thinks this thread should be closed...u sure do keep track of EVERY PAGE of information...if its such a lame thread why are u still posting in it?

 

[MuBa]

For some one who thinks this thread should be closed...u sure do keep track of EVERY PAGE of information...if its such a lame thread why are u still posting in it?

Because he has the right to...?


But anyways from the way this thread looks, it pretty much boils down to this:

Sheik is good against Marth, but can still be beaten.

 

[Razgriz]

Because he has the right to...?


But anyways from the way this thread looks, it pretty much boils down to this:

Sheik is good against Marth, but can still be beaten.

Only on the pro level can you say that so off-handedly. As soon as you drop anywhere below pro level the advantage Sheik has over Marth is ugly enough to make people stop playing the game. I really hurts me to see my Marth friends making a concerted effort to get better, and then being ***** by some Sheik scrub who doesn't know what L-canceling is, and then laughing at them and telling them that wavedashing and SHFFLing are for noob show-offs. I may be repeating what has already been said, but a noob Sheik has an advantage over novice Marths because Marth's dodges are too long, and she can just keep swinging. Sheik can dodge all she wants, and not get punished for it. Sheik can crouch cancel an attack into a guarunteed d-tilt to Fair combo with a rediculously large frame window. And that's just for competitive players that are learning the ropes. How about the massive casual community? What a Sheik can do to a Marth that doesn't know what DI is is just inhumane. I don't know what the game developers were thinking.