Why is online in this game so bad?

[DelugeFGC]

Also something that's been happening to me since the patch 2.0.0, I keep getting matched against people at 3.5 or 3.6 million.
This was my threshold, the best I could do be at was 3.4 million. After that, I'm usually getting wrecked.
Even though I get back to 2.5, 2 million, the game keeps matching me against 3.5/3.6 million. It's really annoying, those people are most of the time much better than me.
I'm not playing to win or anything and I don't have time to take the game seriously to the point where I'm going to spend 3 hours a day in training. I'm playing for fun and getting murdered in a match is just not fun (getting a 3 stock on someone isn't fun neither honestly).

It feels like the game is matching me against people at the highest level I've ever been, but maybe me reaching that GSP was just luck. I clearly don't have same level as the people I'm fighting most of the time and the game has just become boring and frustrating since a few days.

The matchmaking felt much more balanced in the previous patch tbh, it's just a mess now.

This tends to screw people on both sides. I currently hover in the 3.5M-4.1M range with the few (3) characters I've decided are worth playing online (it's a different world out there than tournaments / local play) and sometimes the jank system slams me into a game with people anywhere from 350K-2M quite often. This is not only bad for obvious matching reasons, but if you should LOSE to the lower GSP player.. my god do you take a MASSIVE GSP hit compared to normal. I don't know if this is 100% consistent across the board, but on the few occasions I have lost to people of significantly lower GSP than me (props, you guys are sleepers, gave me hell) it usually screwed me pretty hard.

 

[Team Orchid]

Heeeeeey, is complaining about something that's not quickplay cool? Because battle arenas seem to have a problem with staying open for more than 4 matches, which is kind of a pain.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Heeeeeey, is complaining about something that's not quickplay cool? Because battle arenas seem to have a problem with staying open for more than 4 matches, which is kind of a pain.

I haven't encountered this, though I'm not one to stay in Battle Arenas for long because for some reason I keep getting the people who want to spam Falcon's DTaunt endlessly without inputting a single attack as some sort of bizarre troll. I swear to god this has happened like 6 times.

Maybe they really want to see my moves, but hearing it spammed constantly between intentionally DIing into your attacks and maybe crossing it up once in a blue moon with some sort of left field neutral B spam has left me in a really strange place. I feel like I'm just not in on the meme here.

 

[Oneiros5321]

Heeeeeey, is complaining about something that's not quickplay cool? Because battle arenas seem to have a problem with staying open for more than 4 matches, which is kind of a pain.

Haven't had this issue either, but I'm only playing battle arena with friends from the same region as me. Maybe it's a distance thing issue...couldn't know, it never happened to me

 

[Noss92]

Arena problems for now are only about missing quality of life features, like easy rules change (only in friends arena), host change when the host leaves, CPUs and characters /stage selection.

Then it should let play more than one battle at time, especially in 1vs1 arenas, where waiting times can be extremely long if there are 6/8 players.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Two more Falcon's today who really wanted to see my moves and just stood there spamming DTaunt and DIing into my combos.

I'm officially declaring this a thing.

 

[TheDuke54]

I keep getting penalized for things that aren't my fault. Normally with an hour penalty where I can't play online at all. Not even with friends. It's to the point where I'm afraid to even play randomly in case my friends get the urge to play the game. Cause I might still be penalized when they want to smash.

I played Smash Wii U online and you'd get laggy matches that would sometimes kick everyone when the game is buffering with that 'endless beachball' You can't opt out of laggy matches or you'll be punished. But you also get punished if the game decides to kick everyone because someone has a crap internet. I know it's not me because I've played other matches flawlessly without any hiccups. So whenever I see lag I fear if it's the endless load. And I've been kicked a few times because of it and that has raked up my penalty. Now it's at an hour and 15 minutes. Not cool.

No one should be punished for that, period. I feel like Nintendo has really let us down.

 

[meleebrawler]

Weird, I've never been kicked for someone else disconnecting from the game. I just get the same thing Smash 4 did where that player just gets replaced by a CPU. It's a lot easier to tell when it happens since no one's GSP is seen budging after the match.

 

[TheDuke54]

Well I didn't get kicked because someone left. I'm pretty sure we all got kicked. Because I was in the lobby battle thing and then 3 others joined. As soon as the match started with the announcer's '3...2...1' gig the game froze and tried to buffer back to the fight. Except it just decided to drop the match. I forget the actual message that came up.

I can't be the only one that had this happen to me during the Wii U era (and in Ult) It normally happens at the start when someone who joins has a pretty bad connection. Sometimes I get lucky and the match commences, but other times the it doesn't.

 

[DelugeFGC]

The major buzzkill online is that I cannot seem to escape additional input lag, no matter what the setup (LAN adapter, fast connection, low bandwidth usage outside of the Switch itself, etc) I go for.. there's always input lag. This makes me completely lose interest in playing certain types of characters I otherwise would, and right now is the biggest reason I favor zoners in Ultimate. Without a kit capable of proper spacing / zoning and punish reads, online is a nightmare when the input lag rears its ugly head. Otherwise I've mostly dodged all the issues, I don't have ruleset problems anymore. Ever, it's almost eerie to a point.

Some of my characters like Ike are a hazard online. When the input lag is fine, I can do well with him.. but when it isn't? Well good luck landing his slow aerials when they all come out late. The disconnects are.. quite annoying, as well.

 

[UltimateXsniper]

I saw that Nintendo's own tournament today that they cut out a match going on and trying to explain to us about lag.



Thanks Nintendo

 

[TheDuke54]

Is there a video of this instance somewhere? Do you mean the match was lagging too much and so the game ended abruptly?

 

[UltimateXsniper]

Is there a video of this instance somewhere? Do you mean the match was lagging too much and so the game ended abruptly?

It was on twitch. I can't find exactly when it happened as I was watching Plup instead and he every now and then checked the stream. I saw a post on Reddit too earlier but I can't find it now.

All I could gather from it was that it was during a match with some Yoshi on battlefield and you'll noticed the game started get hiccups or jittery right before they started to cut about half the match out and have people explain lag and what's going on. The game still ended fine I'm sure, but it is odd they have to mention this to the audience and hopefully they can maybe do something about this in the future if they have problems with their own online tournament. I can't say they've done this at any other point and I haven't watched much of it but I wouldn't be surprised if there were small hiccups here and there throughout the tournament.

 

[TheDuke54]

Well either way, it at the very least is becoming more publicly aware. Better this then to have it become something serious, that no one realizes is a thing. Like Smash Hell. Which to this day, I still have no idea why I got reported and banned for 2 weeks. Online being trash needs to be made publicly known so that more people are not okay with subpar services.

 

[colorbanditblk]

I did not pay 20 ****ing dollars a year for Smash Ultimate Online to be this much of a mess. The MMR systems makes no sense, I keeping getting paired with ppl way too high up on the GSP ladder, lose, and then get punished heavily for it. I keep getting the most bull**** matches where Clouds, Falcos, Wolfs, Samus’, any characters with strong projectiles who abuse players on omega stages by running to one side of the arena, spam projectiles, then run to the other side and repeat the process. Like literally did it not pass Nintendo’s minds that ****ty players were going to do this? One easy fix would be to make the stale system affect their projectiles so there is diminishing returns or the projectiles stop working all together after a while. I’m tired of playing with people who abuse items in their rule sets so they can cheese wins. I had a match w/ a Daisy who only had smash balls available and smash meters just so they can cheat with their FS.

Like I just want a fair and decent online smash experience. I want to feel good for winning fair matches, and if I lose fair matches then that’s on me. I want to learn my favorite character as i play. I just want to have freaking fun, is that too much to ask for?

 

[TheGlumPanda]

I haven't got to use the online yet, but that sounds like it might be a good thing XD

 

[MacSmitty]

. I keep getting the most bull**** matches where Clouds, Falcos, Wolfs, Samus’, any characters with strong projectiles who abuse players on omega stages by running to one side of the arena, spam projectiles,

>Looks at main

Uh, should you be complaining about characters using their projectiles in this game, considering who you main?

 

[Crystanium]

Here's a tip. Those who stay on one side of the stage or the other are closer to the blast zone. You use Duck Hunt, so you can spam projectiles as well. Down special sets up those cowboys, and the explosive can works as a defense as well. Characters like Cloud and Samus would have their projectiles stopped by it. Or, if projectile characters are giving you trouble, pick up a secondary to deal with them. Or you could drop Duck Hunt. I'm sure there are good videos of Duck Hunt pros to help give you an idea on how to deal with your opponents. Another thing is I'd expect Final Destination formats would greatly help Duck Hunt, since there wouldn't be any platforms to avoid those cowboys or clay discs.

 

[colorbanditblk]

>Looks at main

Uh, should you be complaining about characters using their projectiles in this game, considering who you main?

Oh don’t start, DH’s projectiles can be punished. Cans can be sent back to him, clay pigeons can be blocked, dodged, or broken( and it has high vulnerability period so he can’t spam it continuously), and gunmen is good but inconsistent(they’re different every time you use them and they can be knocked down). He’s spammy but balanced cuz he’s need to be strategic or else he can get screwed.

Here's a tip. Those who stay on one side of the stage or the other are closer to the blast zone. You use Duck Hunt, so you can spam projectiles as well. Down special sets up those cowboys, and the explosive can works as a defense as well. Characters like Cloud and Samus would have their projectiles stopped by it. Or, if projectile characters are giving you trouble, pick up a secondary to deal with them. Or you could drop Duck Hunt. I'm sure there are good videos of Duck Hunt pros to help give you an idea on how to deal with your opponents. Another thing is I'd expect Final Destination formats would greatly help Duck Hunt, since there wouldn't be any platforms to avoid those cowboys or clay discs.

I’ve been trying to learn Falco lately so he’ll definitely be a secondary, especially for projectile spammers. Also gunmen can be knocked down very easily except for two so they can’t save you from spam all the time. Also I really don’t like how ppl tell others to completely stop playing a character they like justvthey think the character isn’t worth it. DH isn’t completely useless, he’s quite good in fact. It’s just with stupid rule sets he can be cheesed quite easily.

 

[Crystanium]

I’ve been trying to learn Falco lately so he’ll definitely be a secondary, especially for projectile spammers. Also gunmen can be knocked down very easily except for two so they can’t save you from spam all the time. Also I really don’t like how ppl tell others to completely stop playing a character they like justvthey think the character isn’t worth it. DH isn’t completely useless, he’s quite good in fact. It’s just with stupid rule sets he can be cheesed quite easily.

Wolf is clearly the better character. Ugh. Anyway, Falco seems better this time around. Gunmen can be knocked down, but they're still walls. I understand Quickplay can be cheesed. My experience has given me the fortunate circumstance of very rarely bumping into casual players.

 

[Luigifan18]

Wolf is clearly the better character. Ugh. Anyway, Falco seems better this time around. Gunmen can be knocked down, but they're still walls. I understand Quickplay can be cheesed. My experience has given me the fortunate circumstance of very rarely bumping into casual players.

Hey, at least Wolf can hold Down+B and if the projectile spammers don't stop spamming, everything that happens to them is their own damn fault.

 

[Crystanium]

Hey, at least Wolf can hold Down+B and if the projectile spammers don't stop spamming, everything that happens to them is their own damn fault.

I've fought Wolfs who don't even have to rely on reflector to win. He hits hard, has a good-ranged projectile, combos, &c. His recovery may be average, but that doesn't matter when he's in control. This is a flaw in the way the developers balance this game.

 

[TheR0OKIE]

Whenever I play against a player with lower GSP it feels like I’m playing cuphead. Unless I’m able to beat them as quick possible they will 9 times out 10 run all game it’s so boring. Sometimes I’ll dash dance n jump back n forth for awhile to see if they will ever try be The aggressor but they literally won’t stop throwing projectiles runnin the clock. I win a lot against these players but it’s so draining playing these matches in casual quick play lol. Then when I play against player with higher rank it’s usually alittle faster paced match n typically easier to win n less stressful. Does anybody else feel the same way about quick play.​

 

[DelugeFGC]

I did not pay 20 ****ing dollars a year for Smash Ultimate Online to be this much of a mess. The MMR systems makes no sense, I keeping getting paired with ppl way too high up on the GSP ladder, lose, and then get punished heavily for it. I keep getting the most bull**** matches where Clouds, Falcos, Wolfs, Samus’, any characters with strong projectiles who abuse players on omega stages by running to one side of the arena, spam projectiles, then run to the other side and repeat the process. Like literally did it not pass Nintendo’s minds that ****ty players were going to do this? One easy fix would be to make the stale system affect their projectiles so there is diminishing returns or the projectiles stop working all together after a while. I’m tired of playing with people who abuse items in their rule sets so they can cheese wins. I had a match w/ a Daisy who only had smash balls available and smash meters just so they can cheat with their FS.

Like I just want a fair and decent online smash experience. I want to feel good for winning fair matches, and if I lose fair matches then that’s on me. I want to learn my favorite character as i play. I just want to have freaking fun, is that too much to ask for?

My man, you play a character that literally is AT HIS BEST when against other zoners / projectile users.. and online is always gonna be full of scrubs who spam out every single projectile they can because it's safer. This stuff is extremely easy to punish (provided lag isn't making the match hell, but if it is FAR more than projectiles become annoying.. I'd say command grabs on lag are worse) and often will make the entire match free if they rely on it too much. Cloud has terrible projectiles outside of limit that take priority over nothing, have zero damage, kill power or hitstun and move fairly slow once they come out. Samus has slow projectiles across the board that are easy to get into the rhythm of punishing as Duck Hunt. I'll give you spacie spam being annoying, but there's ways to take apart these characters too. No character you meet spamming projectiles is going to be a player of high skill, so they're all VERY beatable.


As for GSP, it is crap, but once you get a good ratio of matches on a character, GSP stops doing screwy BS.

 

[colorbanditblk]

My man, you play a character that literally is AT HIS BEST when against other zoners / projectile users.. and online is always gonna be full of scrubs who spam out every single projectile they can because it's safer. This stuff is extremely easy to punish (provided lag isn't making the match hell, but if it is FAR more than projectiles become annoying.. I'd say command grabs on lag are worse) and often will make the entire match free if they rely on it too much. Cloud has terrible projectiles outside of limit that take priority over nothing, have zero damage, kill power or hitstun and move fairly slow once they come out. Samus has slow projectiles across the board that are easy to get into the rhythm of punishing as Duck Hunt. I'll give you spacie spam being annoying, but there's ways to take apart these characters too. No character you meet spamming projectiles is going to be a player of high skill, so they're all VERY beatable.


As for GSP, it is crap, but once you get a good ratio of matches on a character, GSP stops doing screwy BS.

Yeah I know DH is better against other zoners. But im strictly talking about projectiles spammers on OMEGA/FD stages. You know the stages where there’s literally nowhere else for you to go but towards your enemy. Since you’re mentioning Cloud,let’s talk about him a bit. His projectile is a wave. Quite slow on its own, doesn’t do a lot of damage like you said, but becomes a nightmare when he’s spamming it multiple times on a stage that doesn’t leave the other player options to come near him but to try to jump over or try to parry ever hit forcing the cloud to come to the player(which you probably have to be really good at rhythms for that to be even possible) or if they have a character with a reflector/counter. So, unlike the other player, cloud has plenty of options to punish the player for jumping near them. Trust me I know they aren’t impossible to beat but it doesn’t stop this behavior from being egregious especially if you happen to play a character you like that doesn’t have an easy time adapting to it.

 

[TheDuke54]

It was on twitch. I can't find exactly when it happened as I was watching Plup instead and he every now and then checked the stream. I saw a post on Reddit too earlier but I can't find it now.

All I could gather from it was that it was during a match with some Yoshi on battlefield and you'll noticed the game started get hiccups or jittery right before they started to cut about half the match out and have people explain lag and what's going on. The game still ended fine I'm sure, but it is odd they have to mention this to the audience and hopefully they can maybe do something about this in the future if they have problems with their own online tournament. I can't say they've done this at any other point and I haven't watched much of it but I wouldn't be surprised if there were small hiccups here and there throughout the tournament.

Oh guys, I found an article that may be what you're referencing.

https://gamerant.com/super-smash-bros-online-lag-tournament/

 

[DelugeFGC]

Yeah I know DH is better against other zoners. But im strictly talking about projectiles spammers on OMEGA/FD stages. You know the stages where there’s literally nowhere else for you to go but towards your enemy. Since you’re mentioning Cloud,let’s talk about him a bit. His projectile is a wave. Quite slow on its own, doesn’t do a lot of damage like you said, but becomes a nightmare when he’s spamming it multiple times on a stage that doesn’t leave the other player options to come near him but to try to jump over or try to parry ever hit forcing the cloud to come to the player(which you probably have to be really good at rhythms for that to be even possible) or if they have a character with a reflector/counter. So, unlike the other player, cloud has plenty of options to punish the player for jumping near them. Trust me I know they aren’t impossible to beat but it doesn’t stop this behavior from being egregious especially if you happen to play a character you like that doesn’t have an easy time adapting to it.

If a Cloud on FD does this, all you have to do is roll, dodge/shield/parry, then MAYBE roll once more or mix it up with a jump and you've closed the distance. You may have to eat some damage, but if it leads to you gaining a workable opp then it's 100% worth it. You can also jump over them, mixing the Cloud up by fast falling into the jump, then burning your double jump before going for an attack. FD will screw Cloud just as much in return because he'll have nowhere to go besides toward the ledge if you maintain proper stage control.. he can't afford to play that game with an optimal DH on FD because the Cloud will end up walled back into the ledge where he is in a VERY bad position potentially.

Projectile spam isn't hard to deal with, if anything it makes the win easier outside of VERY laggy games or for newer players. It is NOT fun to play against, however.. and it definitely doesn't make you better / act as a learning tool past a point. It is annoying, but it isn't hard to manage.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Arena problems for now are only about missing quality of life features, like easy rules change (only in friends arena), host change when the host leaves, CPUs and characters /stage selection.

Then it should let play more than one battle at time, especially in 1vs1 arenas, where waiting times can be extremely long if there are 6/8 players.

And here I am still wondering how to get the chance to pick spirits and their setups manually in battle arenas.

 

[Noss92]

And here I am still wondering how to get the chance to pick spirits and their setups manually in battle arenas.

Oh right, that. That is pretty obscure: you must press Y where you choose the mode, rules and other, to see the advanced options. It took me a while as well

 

[DelugeFGC]

People actually like spirits in their matches?

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

Oh right, that. That is pretty obscure: you must press Y where you choose the mode, rules and other, to see the advanced options. It took me a while as well

Even when you're not the one hosting the arena, right?

 

[Noss92]

Even when you're not the one hosting the arena, right?

Nono, the host can decide to activate spirits or not, regardless the ruleset choosed. They can also choose the music in the arena, random stages or not and more. The guest can simply look at the rules once inside the arena

 

[Whit]

So I keep seeing everyone complain about the online play, but I gotta be honest. I don't see a lot of what anyone is complaining about. I play Elite smash exclusively because I don't really like arenas because connections are more likely to be laggy and I don't like waiting.

I saw more of the "annoying idiots" at lower GSP, but when I got to the higher ranks they quickly disappeared. Now everytime I get on, I am almost guaranteed a serious challenge from a serious player and I think it's been helping me improve a lot. Not only that, but I encounter a large variety of characters too (not just top tier) which was very surprising to me. The only gripe I really have about the system is that a lot of the time people are not likely to rematch after a loss or close win, which is I assume to preserve their GSP. At the same time I kind of like that because it keeps the variety going as well as keeping me on my toes. I have also always gotten my preferred rules (1v1, Battlefield, no items) or similar. I have never gone out looking for a serious fight and gotten slapped with a 4-player free-for-all with items.

Maybe it is just my region that provides me with such a great experience. I don't have a LAN cable and I live in Dallas. Yes lag can be annoying but it's very rare. I think all the lag problems people keep talking about is just their internet being bad and them being in denial about it.

If there playing against someone that might be considered annoying (zoners, spammers, etc.), I just have get better to overcome them. Otherwise, it's my own fault that I lose to such stupid strategy. At least that was what me and my friends say. I don't really care about my GSP either, nor do I think people should. I think it just adds unnecessary pressure that makes you desperate and play panicky. Just focus on getting better and go into matches with that in mind.

Sorry for the rant. I just keep seeing people saying the online is garbage all over the internet and I cannot figure out why from my perspective.

 

[FlintIke]

The worst thing to me in online play is the fact, that you can't play co-op local in arenas.

I mean you can do it in quickplay (with awful rules) but at least it works! WHY THE HELL ISN'T THAT AN OPTION IN THE ARENA?!

I rly do hope they fix stuff like this. Instead of Balance Patches, I currently wait for them to fix the online mode since it's totally horrible.

 

[colorbanditblk]

The worst thing to me in online play is the fact, that you can't play co-op local in arenas.

I mean you can do it in quickplay (with awful rules) but at least it works! WHY THE HELL ISN'T THAT AN OPTION IN THE ARENA?!

I rly do hope they fix stuff like this. Instead of Balance Patches, I currently wait for them to fix the online mode since it's totally horrible.

On the other side of this coin, me and a friend wanted to play with each other on online co-op(not local co-op) to only realize... that the option doesn’t exist. Like sure we could do it in battle arenas but we just wanted to see how we would fare on the ladder.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Back to getting 25-40mb/s (was getting upwards of 95-100ish) download on my Switch, even with the LAN adapter.. despite this:

^ Being what I got off just a random test I did via the same connection (same Cat5e cable into the same port on the router) on my PC. I understand the Switch doesn't have its 3.0 port enabled, but 2.0 still has a cap of 480mb/s. A test I did later had the speed at 452.12, though the point is with a 480mb/s cap on USB 2.0 and my internet being consistently over 400, I have NO IDEA how it keeps losing so much speed in translation to the Switch.

Worse still, unless EVERYONE goes out and buys a LAN adapter OR has naturally very stable WiFi, the problems won't really go anywhere. Ultimate is too big a game with too many people playing it to EVER hope even 50% of its online community will have stable online. Just switch to dedicated servers, Nintendo, FFS.

 

[lucasla]

Back to getting 25-40mb/s (was getting upwards of 95-100ish) download on my Switch, even with the LAN adapter.. despite this:

^ Being what I got off just a random test I did via the same connection (same Cat5e cable into the same port on the router) om my PC. I understand the Switch doesn't have its 3.0 port enabled, but 2.0 still has a cap of 480mb/s. A test I did later had the speed at 452.12, though the point is with a 480mb/s cap on USB 2.0 and my internet being consistently over 400, I have NO IDEA how it keeps losing so much speed in translation to the Switch.

Worse still, unless EVERYONE goes out and buys a LAN adapter OR has naturally very stable WiFi, the problems won't really go anywhere. Ultimate is too big a game with too many people playing it to EVER hope even 50% of its online community will have stable online. Just switch to dedicated servers, Nintendo, FFS.

I doubt that 5% of the people that buy Smash will buy a lan adapter. It would also not really ensure that the matches would be less laggy, it would only lower that possibility a bit. The fact that they made a game that only needs to connect 4 players at maximum and many people are suffering so much of lag is beyond me. The problem is not the internet of the world, the problem is Nintendo assumed that the millions of people that would buy the game had the extreme good conditions between each other necessary for the p2p system to work. But this assumption was proved false for so long with Brawl and Smash4... They just ignored the problems and repeated, it's their fault for not wanting to invest in good dedicated servers.

 

[TheDuke54]

Just did a few online battles today. Did they get rid of the stale move thing? Forget if it has an actual name, where if someone uses a move too much it loses its power and speed? They need to bring that back, if so, cause it seemed that way with all the fights I partook in. The cheesy spammy fighter won all the time. They just spammed from one corner and did it all over again. I don't do 1v1, so it's not like I can just target them,

And if you target one person too much you get punished anyway. And I don't want to get another hour ban for stupid crap like someone's trash connection kicking us all or 'bullying' If I can get kicked/punished for fighting one person too much, they should also get a warning for using underhanded tactics no one finds fun.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Just did a few online battles today. Did they get rid of the stale move thing? Forget if it has an actual name, where if someone uses a move too much it loses its power and speed? They need to bring that back, if so, cause it seemed that way with all the fights I partook in. The cheesy spammy fighter won all the time. They just spammed from one corner and did it all over again. I don't do 1v1, so it's not like I can just target them,

And if you target one person too much you get punished anyway. And I don't want to get another hour ban for stupid crap like someone's trash connection kicking us all or 'bullying' If I can get kicked/punished for fighting one person too much, they should also get a warning for using underhanded tactics no one finds fun.

Move staling has gone no where online, but moves don't stay stale forever. Every 10th move pushes a move off the list, and that can potentially make a move less stale or unstale it completely if the last / only instance of it being used was the move that was just pushed off the staling list. Certain things also unstale moves that you wouldn't expect. For example, Greninja's substitute can unstale moves if you hit it before it disappears. Certain projectiles, while they themselves DO NOT get stale, will still push other moves off the staling list. This goes on.

So it's more likely you're just not used to how the system works yet, as when I get someone locked into a string of 2-3 UTilts with Ike after a NAir or something at low %'s, I can visibly watch the move do less % each hit. Training mode, however, has move staling OFF by default and I'm not sure if modes like Stamina Mode have move staling or not.

Speaking of Stamina, I wish they'd add it to online. It has zero competitive value because of how easy stuff like infinites can be when all moves are deadlocked into base knockback the whole match.. for example you can sometimes UTilt people 5+ times in a row, or indefinitely if it's at a good angle / near a wall or surface.. but it's fun. I'd love to hop on with Ken, Ryu or maybe Incineroar or Lucario and just do some fighting where stamina comes into play. Would be a good 'For Fun' option when you're just looking to play less seriously. I don't hate Stamina mode like a lot of people do.

 

[meleebrawler]

Move staling has gone no where online, but moves don't stay stale forever. Every 10th move pushes a move off the list, and that can potentially make a move less stale or unstale it completely if the last / only instance of it being used was the move that was just pushed off the staling list. Certain things also unstale moves that you wouldn't expect. For example, Greninja's substitute can unstale moves if you hit it before it disappears. Certain projectiles, while they themselves DO NOT get stale, will still push other moves off the staling list. This goes on.

So it's more likely you're just not used to how the system works yet, as when I get someone locked into a string of 2-3 UTilts with Ike after a NAir or something at low %'s, I can visibly watch the move do less % each hit. Training mode, however, has move staling OFF by default and I'm not sure if modes like Stamina Mode have move staling or not.

Speaking of Stamina, I wish they'd add it to online. It has zero competitive value because of how easy stuff like infinites can be when all moves are deadlocked into base knockback the whole match.. for example you can sometimes UTilt people 5+ times in a row, or indefinitely if it's at a good angle / near a wall or surface.. but it's fun. I'd love to hop on with Ken, Ryu or maybe Incineroar or Lucario and just do some fighting where stamina comes into play. Would be a good 'For Fun' option when you're just looking to play less seriously. I don't hate Stamina mode like a lot of people do.

You can set Stamina as an option in Quickplay or arenas. I'd wager you'd have severe trouble finding someone wanting to play that though.