Why is online in this game so bad?

[TheDuke54]

I've never reported anyone. On the WiiU I blocked people with trash connections and normally those who switch their tags often to stuff like 'go kill yourself' cause no one has time for a manchild like that. I have to agree on teabagging though. Not that I get bent out of shape, but that the audience and the performers aren't the same thing. It's always expected you're going to come across all pieces of work as far as audience goes. But if your opponent (whatever it be) is a disrespectful turd, who finds that fun or enjoyable to be in their company?

 

[PSIPher]

I'm glad I'm not the only one disappointed (to put it mildly) in the online mode.

I just gave it a go - in two hours, I managed to get just two matches that aligned with my preferences (team, time, no items, Omega stages - tho' Battlefield is OK too).

It was very laggy too, even more so than when playing locally, and, frustratingly, the lag invariably showed itself at key moments (like off-stage recovery), leading to plenty of inadvertent SDs. The connection dropped completely mid-game on a couple of occasions. And I then got a message that I had been banned for 29 mins! What a cheek for a service you now have to pay for! I refuse to believe that this was due to the connection on my side, as I bought an ethernet adapter specifically for this.

So I gave up.

To be honest, I can't believe that this game passed quality control. It's such a poor effort for a Nintendo flagship series, which is such a shame as I really wanted to like this game.

 

[TheDuke54]

Dude same crap happened to me on a few occasions. Twice it happened during the start of the match before the announcer said GO! And the game just endlessly loaded until it dropped everyone. And get this, I got an hour and half ban for that.

You're the first poster here, besides me, to bring up the dropping of games. And how they punish you for it. We can't be the only ones having this happen to us. It's silly when you think that the WiiU (and probably 3ds) never punished you when the game dropped the match. Now we have to pay for the service and are punished for things we weren't before and are out of our control.

Edit: I decided to go on quickplay to finish the 30 player challenge. The warning that I dced showed up, but here's the thing...the last time I went online I didn't lose connection in any way. So I'm a little confused on that. Are we getting punished for stuff that doesn't even happen now? lol

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

Brawl's online seemed better than this ultimate failure on an online service, doesn't it?

 

[Coolboy]

i get the feeling my matchmaking is glitched..it's almost putting me in team matches only! -.- and i have no preferences but it really refuses to put me in any other type of match alot..now i even start to dislike teammatches cause the game keeps forcing them upon me.. i ****ing hate it! >.>

 

[Sucumbio]

There's been a lot more teams lately because as with every iteration of this game there's a large portion of players who tire of one format and try another. I personally prefer teams but once you're comfortable 1v1 teams is a good way to expand your play style. And they're just fun! (yeah like items is FUN) shut up me (sorry Nintendo gods don't poop on me pls)

 

[TheDuke54]

I personally enjoy team matches the most. I don't know why, I just liked them a lot on Smash4 for the WiiU. Probably has to do with using team work to best the other side or do well. It can get annoying when you have a player who is just so bad that it looks like they're sd'ing on purpose and then stealing all of your stocks to boot.

Of course they could also be doing this in order to finish the 30 fighter challenge quicker. I just now realized that.

I enjoyed Smash4 team matches both on fun and glory. One was more competitive and the other was silly with random items. Now Smash Ult is a mixed bag because competitive and fun players are crammed together through bad match-making. And items on is usually super high and with cheese tactics like all assists or something.

 

[LightningHelix]

Seems to me the only solution for the foreseable future is set-up battle arenas. You're better off not caring about GSP anyway. If you're good, you won't have to wait in queue too often and I find it attracts better players. Plus I find taking a little break to spectate is not a terrible idea.

 

[Alsyght]

I’m not talking about terms of playing, but how the online sets up matches. Sakurai’s said you’re gonna get people around you level, but what does that really mean? Win rate or GSP? Because I play Richter on the side, but he’s like 100,000 and sometimes I’m pitted against someone around 3 mil, and I think that’s unfair. GSP isn’t a clear indication of skill level, I get that, but if one retains a 3mil GSP, they at least have an understanding of a character and possibly basic combos to get up there because you can’t hit 3 mil without facing some challenging opponents. I’m at 3.7 mil with my Dedede right now and sometimes I’m matched against someone like at 1.2mil and it’s totally unfair to the other person who might want to rise in the GSP. It’s like beating up a kindergartener. I’m just...Sakurai needs to fix it.

 

[Coolboy]

happens ALOT when i play Falco....hes pretty low with GSP but i am about to give it up with him cause i get paired up with people who know way better what their doing with their character then me who still try to figure out what works for me as Falco.. i often get people over 3 mil... that's only teaching me how to get bodied as Falco :l

i got another good example! in a team match 3 of us were in 3 mil but i get a noob teammate under 1 mil who kept dying -.-

 

[Xquirtle]

Yep, it is clearly pitted against your alt characters to set you up for failure. It matches you off of some sort of average skill, or something to do with your mains GSP even when on alts but takes away tons of rating for losing to players 30 times your rank. Rather than just matching you off of your alts GSP, it keeps matching you off of the other rating which will of course result in you losing tons of games on your new character. It seems to artificially force you to have super low GSP on alts until you get pretty good with them and can not only beat those 3m players, but beat them OVER AND OVER to make up for your huge sink hole. Its like GSP on alts is meaningless.

I despise this system since i like to play a lot of characters, but it is such a miserable experience to tank my rating and then start getting aids low GSP rule sets and turd side B spamming players in between my losses to people near elite smash.

 

[Crazy Hand 2001]

Brawl's online seemed better than this ultimate failure on an online service, doesn't it?

 

[lucasla]

I'm glad I'm not the only one disappointed (to put it mildly) in the online mode.

I just gave it a go - in two hours, I managed to get just two matches that aligned with my preferences (team, time, no items, Omega stages - tho' Battlefield is OK too).

It was very laggy too, even more so than when playing locally, and, frustratingly, the lag invariably showed itself at key moments (like off-stage recovery), leading to plenty of inadvertent SDs. The connection dropped completely mid-game on a couple of occasions. And I then got a message that I had been banned for 29 mins! What a cheek for a service you now have to pay for! I refuse to believe that this was due to the connection on my side, as I bought an ethernet adapter specifically for this.

So I gave up.

To be honest, I can't believe that this game passed quality control. It's such a poor effort for a Nintendo flagship series, which is such a shame as I really wanted to like this game.

I believe it happens because the infrastructure they chose for the game. P2P is kind of a standard for fighting games, but 99% of the fighting games are games of 2 players, so the lag is minimized (the other 1% are Smash Bros games). Even in Smash, if you play only 1x1, you will have more probability of finding less laggy matches, like other fighting games when you also play with only two players, but Smash is not a game of only two players. Also, I presume most fighting games die pretty quickly in number of players playing it constantly after the launch of the game, and only a few addicted players continue playing the same game for so long or until the next game, so maybe, the investment in dedicated servers may not compensate. Adding this to the minimum number of 2 players of each match, and you will have everything pointing for the company to only care about P2P architecture for their online games. These are not the same case as Smash. Smash games can be played in 4 players (and now even in 8 players locally), they have a nice amount of players during all the life of the system they are in.

In a server based game, if a player is laggy, only him has the lag. Because the server take care of this, the functionality of the server is above any individual problem any connected player may have. If you play a game like Overwatch, Rainbow Six Siege, World of Warcraft, Apex Legends, PUBG, any server based game, even games that have 100 players, obviously the internet of some individuals may not be at good state at some moments, and still, the game doesnt laggy for everyone waiting the response of that player. If you look to the laggy player, you may notice that he maybe will be walking to the walls, or doing strange actions because his internet is with some problem, but he is the only individual that will suffer from it, until he fixes his connection and his ping goes back to normal (unless of course, if its a problem on the server, but problems with the millions of players are far more present for obvious reasons of massive number of connections).

In the P2P system implemented by Smash developers, well, every player is connected to every other player, sending messages and receiving messages. Because of that, and because the game aparently waits the response of everyone to reach everyone, if someone has some lag, everyone keeps waiting for the match to stabilize. Their mistake was assume that the millions of players of the world would have the extremely good connection conditions between each other to make the online game work properly. This was a very bad assumption, simply because it never worked before, in Melee, in Smash4, and it was already predictable in Ultimate. And still, they ignored and followed the same path. It's their fault, is like decide to build building in a moody terrain, ignoring that the foundation is not solid enough. They are all software engineers, and should predict and avoid possible problems. Of course that the good P2P connection between 2 or even 4 players with no problems may work even better than a server based system in some conditions, BUT, the majority of conditions is not that. In the majority of conditions, the server based system will work in a more efficient way, because it has less connections to have some problem, and the connection to the server has some insurance that the connection has the necessary quality for the game to run with full potential, even if there are cases where the P2P connections may provide even more (even unnecessary) quality, cause these are much less in quantity when we look to the number of people playing the game, and the actual state of the online of the game.

And the extremely good conditions between players seems to be really hard to achieve. I presume most people here, just as me, have no problem playing any other online games. And I play a lot. I play Overwatch, Rainbow Six, Apex Legends, PUBG.. games that have from 12 to 60 or even 100 connections, and Smash only needs to connect 4 players. I play all these games with no problem, but I'm unable to play Smash in 4 players matches, and matches with 2 players may have lag if I'm not lucky. I can't accept that this is a problem of the internet of everyone. It's just the game P2P system that have no server based control and ruins the experience for most people. It seems to me that the number of players of a P2P system may increasy the instability of the system almost in some exponential way, and that's another reason they dont even dare to provide the possibility of 8 player smash online.

 

[~?~]

What's wrong, did you play against little jimmy in Africa with his 9.7 million ping? Happens man. P2P online play is always a disaster. Blame nintendo my dude.

 

[lucasla]

What's wrong, did you play against little jimmy in Africa with his 9.7 million ping? Happens man. P2P online play is always a disaster. Blame nintendo my dude.

I'm in Brazil and I'm fighting brazillian players most of the time (I can check it by the common names). Anyway, I'm playing near players and I still cant play 4 player games properly, and still playing 2 player games with eventual lag (but actually, this mode is very playable). I feel kind of sad that I cant enjoy the game I bought in it's full potential. It's not only the matchmaking to find near players apparently. And I'm playing any other online game properly, so it's not a problem of internet of my country, everything works fine. Smash is a point out of the curve of games that dont work properly online, and not only here apparently. Even in some of their championships they tried to fake the lag players had while playing. Famous youtubers, competitive players of the game had similar problems of matches freezing all the time, and they are in countries like USA or some region of Europe. There's also the people that say they never saw any lag, so they dont even know what others are complaining about.

 

[~?~]

I'm in Brazil and I'm fighting brazillian players most of the time (I can check it by the common names). Anyway, I'm playing near players and I still cant play 4 player games properly, and still playing 2 player games with eventual lag (but actually, this mode is very playable). I feel kind of sad that I cant enjoy the game I bought in it's full potential. It's not only the matchmaking to find near players apparently. And I'm playing any other online game properly, so it's not a problem of internet of my country, everything works fine. Smash is a point out of the curve of games that dont work properly online, and not only here apparently. Even in some of their championships they tried to fake the lag players had while playing. Famous youtubers, competitive players of the game had similar problems of matches freezing all the time, and they are in countries like USA or some region of Europe. There's also the people that say they never saw any lag, so they dont even know what others are complaining about.

Oof Brazils internet is kinda of known for not being so good man. Try using a Lan USB port on your switch to better your input delay to a smaller number, and hopefully your opponent's internet isn't dialup.

 

[lucasla]

Oof Brazils internet is kinda of known for not being so good man. Try using a Lan USB port on your switch to better your input delay to a smaller number, and hopefully your opponent's internet isn't dialup.

There's no problem with internet here (maybe in not urban areas because its a huge country), any game runs with no problem here, as I mentioned before. I already have the Lan adapter too. Internet is not the problem, cause the lag is specially only in smash. If any company makes their game runs properly and only Smash is not working, and is not only here, cause this can be checked by this forum, blame other things that are not the producers of the game is kind of wrong to me.

 

[~?~]

There's no problem with internet here (maybe in not urban areas because its a huge country), any game runs with no problem here, as I mentioned before. I already have the Lan adapter too. Internet is not the problem, cause the lag is specially only in smash. If any company makes their game runs properly and only Smash is not working, and is not only here, cause this can be checked by this forum, blame other things that are not the producers of the game is kind of wrong to me.

Smash Ultimate online is a peer to peer connection, reliant on also a network protocol script injection to a port 80 hub. If one or more players have bad internet, it will lagout, regardless of how good YOUR internet, or the other players internet is.

 

[lucasla]

Smash Ultimate online is a peer to peer connection, reliant on also a network protocol script injection to a port 80 hub. If one or more players have bad internet, it will lagout, regardless of how good YOUR internet, or the other players internet is.

Sure, what I wanna say is that even that way, it was a development decision to allow these problems in the game, already knowing it would happen for the third time in a smash game. Like I said, its like decide to build a building in a moody terrain, and blame the residents for the building to be collapsing. That was expected! They are the software engineers, they should say "hey, p2p for this game will not work properly for a huge amount of players, we should try a server based system this time". But instead, looks like they just ignored all the realistic problems of the world and assumed everyone has internet quality and proximity of Japan.

 

[Sucumbio]

Nintendo didn't spend the money early on that Sony did (much of which was already in place from their other divisions). Microsoft... Duh. Lol so really it's what they have to work with. If you follow the bread crumbs it's aite but smash 4s online was superior. I don't fault Namco or Sakurai or anyone at this point. It is what it is. The company wishes us to congregate in the flesh or get with the times and have better net structure in the US but that's not a priority right now we got a wall to build people!

 

[wizardb171b]

When the game came out i was really hyped about the new mechanics in smash bros ultimate like gsp and preferred rulesets, but preferred rulesets are gsp is all just an illusion, when you beat someone with 3,gsp and you have 200k, you gain 100k, but when you loose to someone with lower gsp, your gsp goes down by half, now this doesnt seem that bad because youre supposed to be better than them, but then come in "preferred rulesets". i say can i have a 1v1 2 stock 3 mins no items, the game says oh you wanted a stamina battle ffa with items? i dont even think they have any matchmaking, when you have 80kgsp you get people with 3m gsp and then it lowers more untill your stuck with ffas or items or stamina. ive gotten 8 battles in a row that arent my ruleset, and about 60% of my battles arent my ruleset, and on paper this looks ok but your supposed to get you "preferred rules" and not some random persons ruleset where they spam one move and pick up items to win.

 

[Sucumbio]

When the game came out i was really hyped about the new mechanics in smash bros ultimate like gsp and preferred rulesets, but preferred rulesets are gsp is all just an illusion, when you beat someone with 3,gsp and you have 200k, you gain 100k, but when you loose to someone with lower gsp, your gsp goes down by half, now this doesnt seem that bad because youre supposed to be better than them, but then come in "preferred rulesets". i say can i have a 1v1 2 stock 3 mins no items, the game says oh you wanted a stamina battle ffa with items? i dont even think they have any matchmaking, when you have 80kgsp you get people with 3m gsp and then it lowers more untill your stuck with ffas or items or stamina. ive gotten 8 battles in a row that arent my ruleset, and about 60% of my battles arent my ruleset, and on paper this looks ok but your supposed to get you "preferred rules" and not some random persons ruleset where they spam one move and pick up items to win.

I've found using background matchmaking tends to result in finding matches more suited to my liking. Not always but a good 90 percent of the time.

I also think your timer may be too low. 3 stock 7 min Battlefield or omega seems to be the most popular

https://smashboards.com/threads/preferred-rules.465704/

 

[lucasla]

Nintendo didn't spend the money early on that Sony did (much of which was already in place from their other divisions). Microsoft... Duh. Lol so really it's what they have to work with. If you follow the bread crumbs it's aite but smash 4s online was superior. I don't fault Namco or Sakurai or anyone at this point. It is what it is. The company wishes us to congregate in the flesh or get with the times and have better net structure in the US but that's not a priority right now we got a wall to build people!

How much time they think their game will stay alive until the internet structure of the entire world evolves, while they already could provide a service that works like any other company that have their online games working properly does? It's their work to provide a game that runs in the PCs of the players properly, but with that thinking you are just defending a company that does the bare minimum in their services. They are not making people have better internet structure with this, neither making people reunite more times to play together. They are just making their game unplayable, or playable only in a few good conditions that are unnecessarily hard to achieve for a loot of people. This is totally unrealistic, specially because it's only their game that doesnt work, so.. the realistic approach would be make a server based game, cause this requires the movement of the company only, and not of millions of people on earth. If not, well, maybe after two or three more of their consoles, people will finally be able to enjoy Smash Ultimate online properly on the already dead by two generations Nintendo Switch.

 

[TheDuke54]

Well if anything, the next Smash game that comes out might suffer if this is the best we get out of online. Because the majority are for online. And then maybe they will learn their lesson. I don't even bother with online anymore. I just do a bunch of cpu matches and those are sadly more fun because the game actually gives me the setting I want, I can change characters, there's minimum cheesing (seems some of the cpu learned a thing or two from online), and the connection is stable all the time.

Speaking of that, has anyone else noticed that the cpu target you (the player) and just chase you the entire match instead of focusing on the other cpus? I don't think it's as bad as brawls was, but it still kind of gets annoying. Feels like a lowkey taunt party.

Nintendo has never really been about the online part of gaming and probably never will or not to our expectations. I remember getting annoyed at Smash4's online, which is so much better then this. I even made a post on some forum addressing the problems they needed to fix. Now I wish they just reverted back to 4fun and glory.

 

[Alsyght]

Does anyone else’s controllers have like a whole second of input lag while online sometimes? Because I had to quit a couple matches just now because my input didn’t registered till a whole second later. And idk if it’s because the lag, but it needs to be fixed like ASAP

Edit: I actually don’t think Nintendo cares about what we want.
Edit: I MISS FOR GLORY WE TOOK IT FOR GRANTED

 

[Sucumbio]

How much time they think their game will stay alive until the internet structure of the entire world evolves, while they already could provide a service that works like any other company that have their online games working properly does? It's their work to provide a game that runs in the PCs of the players properly, but with that thinking you are just defending a company that does the bare minimum in their services. They are not making people have better internet structure with this, neither making people reunite more times to play together. They are just making their game unplayable, or playable only in a few good conditions that are unnecessarily hard to achieve for a loot of people. This is totally unrealistic, specially because it's only their game that doesnt work, so.. the realistic approach would be make a server based game, cause this requires the movement of the company only, and not of millions of people on earth. If not, well, maybe after two or three more of their consoles, people will finally be able to enjoy Smash Ultimate online properly on the already dead by two generations Nintendo Switch.

Japan is widely connected through a large wifi network that we could have here in the US if but for two reasons... The government doesn't want to float the bill and private companies monetize bandwidth. Seeing as Nintendo came in 2nd or arguably 3rd in 4 of the last generations of console designs you do the math. Nintendo literally cannot afford to catch up at this point so they're priming themselves for gaming in the future by pushing WIFI

 

[1FC0]

IMO online is great. The match making is great: I almost always get a good challenge. And in most matches by far I have hardly any lag.

 

[Predatoria]

Make sure you're doing ranked instead of quickplay.

I have several friends who have griped about online, and when I asked if they ran quickplay they all said yes. They'd never even done the ranked mode.

If you do ranked, you are significantly less likely to get bad matchups like undesirable rulesets, laggy players, ffas when you want 1v1s, etc.

I always queue ranked and very seldom get undesirable matches. The worst I get is an occasional 2 stock match instead of 3, but I don't really mind that and still find it to be a good match anyways.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm bAAAaaaack!

Before I bring up what I wanted to say, some quick replies:

for one, preferred rules is a mess. i want to use my competitive rule set similar to smash 4's for glory modes and nearly never get it. a study of 100 games i conducted showed that my competitively based preferred rule set will only see the light of day around 11% of the time. .

This seems about right for my experience too, which is frankly unacceptable.

I played online with teams, my teammate killed himself 3 times then took my stock and killed him self 2 more times using my stocks, then literally the next game im somehow dragged into a three player and both my opponents just team up on me and I cant do anything cause of the lag, and no way to report this behavior, ****ing ridiculous, no triple A game should have this bad of online, I dont wanna play 3 player, I want actual teammates of my skill level (I go to tourneys and do just fine)

Dude this crap happens to me all the time on team battle. Team battle was my favorite thing to do on Smash 4. The team work, it was fun. This? You can't choose if you want to do competitive or fun. Both which I like.

But then you get the game throwing competitive and fun players together. I literally watched a Ganondorf on my team charge and down b himself to death twice and then take my stock before I even got any damage done to me. All in the beginning of the match. This isn't the only time this has happened. Next update needs to have some way to stop stock stealing. Maybe you have to agree to it. It IS YOUR STOCK AFTERALL.

Oh man....s*** like this happens to me all the time too. Also like you TheDuke54 I prefer team battles. I played the crap out of Wii U For Glory team battles but trying to do the same thing in Ultimate is apparently futile. I've even accepted that stock battles are more common than time, so I currently have my preferred rules set to stock team battles, no items. I hardly ever get it.

Anyway, just came here to say that I still hate Ultimate's online and it's utter trash. I know this post is long but try to read it quick like how I would be ranting.
I like the gameplay of Ultimate and I love that it's got so many characters to play which is why I keep coming back, but I get burned every single time. And before anyone else says it again, I've tried ALL of the suggestions. I've tried background matchmaking, I've tried arena battles, etc.--it's all trash, nothing makes any difference. Actually that's a lie; I found that when I use a character that's NOT in Elite Smash, I do seem to get my preferences slightly more often. So I should regret that I'm so good I guess?? Because if I want to play battles with characters I both like to play as and win with, I'm punished by being put into a pool of players where I can't as often play the way I want to. Battle after battle in Quickplay will be something like 1v1, 3 player ffa, 4 player ffa, items on, even had a couple of stamina battles the other day, I've also had a couple battles where it was just special flags which is maybe funny for 2 minutes but then gets super annoying, and THEN MAYBE a couple battles of 2v2....but then half of that time items are still on or it's on some stupid scrolling stage that makes it unplayable. I don't even mind some "non-legal" stages but Mushroomy Kingdom I swear to Tabuu is the worst one. And then, after a team battle, if someone leaves, it often turns into a 2v1 battle which is SUPER FUN.

So then after that mess I'll maybe try to play in an arena battle where at least I can get a 2v2 more reliably (or at least that's the idea). So last night this is what happened, which is pretty typical: Join an arena, wait for players to finish battle; they finish and it's time for me to join the match, and I get a connection error (pretty sure they kicked me). So I join a different arena, wait for the players to finish battle; once it's time for me to play I get a connection error. So I join another arena this time with only 3 players so maybe I can just jump right in. 2 players are fighting, 1 is spectating, so I wait. When the battle is over, the 1 person spectating doesn't leave the bench and the others want to start a 3 player ffa. I leave, because I want to play 2v2. Join a fourth arena and after waiting again, finally get to play a couple 2v2 battles. Unfortunately items were on but at this point I had been waiting so long that I was just happy to be playing the game. After a couple battles, there is some glitch or connection issue when trying to start the battle and the arena gets shut down. ARENA BATTLES ARE ALSO TRASH. Different type of trash than Quickplay, but still trash.

Just for fun, I thought I'd boot up my Wii U and see if I could play For Glory team battles with anyone. Within maybe a minute or two I found a full room for FG team battle and played a few matches. It was fun! And you know what I could do? Besides actually being able to quickly play a team battle with no items on, I could taunt, I could change my character between matches, the game wouldn't force me to start playing a 3/4 player ffa, and also the game automatically mixes up whose team you're on so you don't get stuck with a certain player for better or worse. Oh and also, even though I was connecting with wifi, there was essentially no lag. First try. Smash Ultimate took a good--albeit not perfect--online experience and messed it up so hard that the Wii U ends up having done it waaay bettter. (And in any sentence where you can say the Wii U did it better, you really need to rethink what you've done. jk I love my Wii U)

I know version 3.0 of Smash Ultimate is apparently adding in some other modes and whatnot, but I REALLY hope the online gets fixed. And by 'fixed' I mean go back to what actually worked. Add in "For Glory" modes dedicated to 1v1 and 2v2, no items, no hazards. The other existing modes can replace the former "For Fun" mode well enough I think. Also let us add CPUs in Arena Battles. Thanks that is all.

 

[TheDuke54]

I don't think I ever mentioned this, but I also went back to Smash4 on Wii U and found it easier to find matches on 4fun/glory. I think a good number of us realized how bad Ult online is and migrated back to Smash4. That's my only thought as to why I found games so easily. Before Smash Ult was released I played some Smash 4 here or there and it took quite a bit of time to find matches. So something must be up.

 

[Coolboy]

that moment when you been doing real bad with a character that you get under the 1 mil..but then finally you do well again and you are almost at 1 mil again! but then a match starts and the game is like ''nah bro your internet is working but we are gonna give you a internet error and kick you out of the match cause we are jerks like that''
so after going back and i saw it was back to where i started that day..i got so mad i been literally saying alot of hateful things towards the game that day -.-
i got the character back in the 1 mil again but still..i feel like the game is purposely against me at times and other times it favors me...

a example is with Zero Suit Samus, i went from 2.4 mil to 3.5 mil while only winning 2 matches even though i already played alot of matches with her before that..like ok...cool? >.<

 

[TheDuke54]

Right? You lose a match and it takes so much gsp away and one time I won a hard fought match and I barely got a scrap.

Also I really detest the whole gsp thing. Stock matches are usually the only things you will find and I rarely come across a timed battle. So during free for alls after the first fighter loses all of their stock there are three fighters left. No one wants to do anything. One takes the far left ledge and the other grabs the far right and they both just wait...wait...and spam if they can do cheap ranged attacks. And of course I'm forced into the middle all the time having to take the fight to one of them.

I can manage, but it gets old fast. It's always like this. And it's because they're too scared to do anything besides play it spammy and safe because of gsp. Screw gsp. It makes the matches so boring because no one wants to do anything. I use fighters with projectiles to, ToonLink especially, but that's not how I want to play. I could probably force one of them camping at the ledge and spam them into the middle like a pinata, but again, that's not fun.

 

[lucasla]

It is beyond my comprehension, as so talented game developers make an online system so bad. And with that I include the GSP system, the matchmaking and the stability of the matches due to the P2P system. And even the Arena system that should be a place to look for more competitive battles, it has so many problems, that if I had the option, I would trade all this arena thing for a single For Glory button.

 

[PSIPher]

It is beyond my comprehension, as so talented game developers make an online system so bad. And with that I include the GSP system, the matchmaking and the stability of the matches due to the P2P system. And even the Arena system that should be a place to look for more competitive battles, it has so many problems, that if I had the option, I would trade all this arena thing for a single For Glory button.

Well, it's because they are *not* talented developers. Not anymore.

They might have been, once, back in the late 90s / early 2000s.

But now they just have no vision. They are permanently stuck in a 90s gaming mindset that believes that all you need do for a sequel is just touch up the original with fancier graphics and sound, add a few more stages and characters and you're done. As someone who grew up with games in the 90s, I wouldn't mind that so much, except they can't even get that right.

For me, each successive Smash release since Brawl has been worse than the last. And Smash 'Ultimate' really is anything but ultimate. There's no innovation, nothing new or exciting. Even the feel of the game, to me, is wrong. Personally, I find the control system super unresponsive, even before you try the lag-tastic 'online' mode. It's the first ever fighter where I've had to adjust my TV settings to game mode to get some sort of feeling that I'm actually controlling my character. This should be basic stuff - the first thing to get right in a fast-paced beat-em-up, yet 'Ultimate' is the laggiest Smash release to date.

I hate that they made basic moves harder to do (e.g. the short hop) and the new move buffering system is terrible. For me, the dreaded 'buffered airdodge' is the most common cause of death. I note that even the pros get caught out by the same thing in tournament play, leading to many an anti-climactic match-up.

And the online mode? Well, it's all been said already in this thread. The online experience is pivotal in modern gaming. That the world has gone online, that everything these days is done online, that people expect the online experience to meet a high standard - did that just pass Sakurai by? Did the last decade just not happen for him? Did he not notice the success of stuff like 'Fortnite'?

I really, really wanted to love this game, but I just can't. I have to face the fact that it's a dud. It's 'The Last Jedi' of the Smash series. Looks pretty, it has all the right ingredients, you've been waiting for it for what seems like an eternity, and you go in there wanting to love it. But the more you see of it, the more the problems become apparent, the more the lack of thought becomes evident, and you wonder what on earth you did wrong to deserve what you ended up with.

As for Sakurai and his team...well, they just have to go. They've had their moment in the sun, but now it's time to hand over the series to a younger generation of designers and developers who actually understand gaming in the 21st Century.

 

[Dr. Edgeworth]

Well, it's because they are *not* talented developers. Not anymore.

They might have been, once, back in the late 90s / early 2000s.

But now they just have no vision. They are permanently stuck in a 90s gaming mindset that believes that all you need do for a sequel is just touch up the original with fancier graphics and sound, add a few more stages and characters and you're done. As someone who grew up with games in the 90s, I wouldn't mind that so much, except they can't even get that right.

For me, each successive Smash release since Brawl has been worse than the last. And Smash 'Ultimate' really is anything but ultimate. There's no innovation, nothing new or exciting. Even the feel of the game, to me, is wrong. Personally, I find the control system super unresponsive, even before you try the lag-tastic 'online' mode. It's the first ever fighter where I've had to adjust my TV settings to game mode to get some sort of feeling that I'm actually controlling my character. This should be basic stuff - the first thing to get right in a fast-paced beat-em-up, yet 'Ultimate' is the laggiest Smash release to date.

I hate that they made basic moves harder to do (e.g. the short hop) and the new move buffering system is terrible. For me, the dreaded 'buffered airdodge' is the most common cause of death. I note that even the pros get caught out by the same thing in tournament play, leading to many an anti-climactic match-up.

And the online mode? Well, it's all been said already in this thread. The online experience is pivotal in modern gaming. That the world has gone online, that everything these days is done online, that people expect the online experience to meet a high standard - did that just pass Sakurai by? Did the last decade just not happen for him? Did he not notice the success of stuff like 'Fortnite'?

I really, really wanted to love this game, but I just can't. I have to face the fact that it's a dud. It's 'The Last Jedi' of the Smash series. Looks pretty, it has all the right ingredients, you've been waiting for it for what seems like an eternity, and you go in there wanting to love it. But the more you see of it, the more the problems become apparent, the more the lack of thought becomes evident, and you wonder what on earth you did wrong to deserve what you ended up with.

As for Sakurai and his team...well, they just have to go. They've had their moment in the sun, but now it's time to hand over the series to a younger generation of designers and developers who actually understand gaming in the 21st Century.

Who hurt you bro

 

[Deleted member]

P PSIPher I agree on several points. I think Smash Ultimate has an amazing and flashy presentation, has implemented some good ideas to refine the Smash gameplay beyond what Smash 4 did, and of course has an unbeatable roster. For local multiplayer, it surely reigns supreme. But that's about all the praise I can give it.

You're right; the vast majority of the time people spend playing a game like Smash is online. I'll probably have a local Smash party like twice a year. Aaaaand I think we're all in agreement that the online sucks, no matter what you wanted out of it.

Sakurai has fulfilled his job in my opinion. He's laid an excellent groundwork and legacy for the series that any other developer can look to and build upon, while actually addressing things that are lacking, like good online, or playable Lyndis. In fact, you can tell he's kinda just spinning his wheels and running out of ideas because we keep seeing things rehashed until they're dropped, like the other modes or trophies. Stickers, custom equipment, spirits--they're all the same idea, just implemented differently. Smash Run was just a revamped City Trial for Smash. Don't get me wrong I really appreciate the changes and improvements to gameplay and the roster that Smash 4 and Ultimate have brought, but you can kinda tell that he didn't really have much new to add to the formula since Brawl. Half of the time I really love what Sakurai does, and the other half I'm just so frustrated and perplexed (like why Chrom's hair doesn't change for his alternate costumes, or why Samus is not at all how anyone wants her to be who's actually played Metroid games). So anyway I'd welcome someone new directing the next game, and hopefully they'd realize that the online experience needs to be a waaaaaaay bigger priority, and like, actually work.

 

[PSIPher]

P PSIPher I agree on several points. I think Smash Ultimate has an amazing and flashy presentation, has implemented some good ideas to refine the Smash gameplay beyond what Smash 4 did, and of course has an unbeatable roster. For local multiplayer, it surely reigns supreme. But that's about all the praise I can give it.

You're right; the vast majority of the time people spend playing a game like Smash is online. I'll probably have a local Smash party like twice a year. Aaaaand I think we're all in agreement that the online sucks, no matter what you wanted out of it.

Sakurai has fulfilled his job in my opinion. He's laid an excellent groundwork and legacy for the series that any other developer can look to and build upon, while actually addressing things that are lacking, like good online, or playable Lyndis. In fact, you can tell he's kinda just spinning his wheels and running out of ideas because we keep seeing things rehashed until they're dropped, like the other modes or trophies. Stickers, custom equipment, spirits--they're all the same idea, just implemented differently. Smash Run was just a revamped City Trial for Smash. Don't get me wrong I really appreciate the changes and improvements to gameplay and the roster that Smash 4 and Ultimate have brought, but you can kinda tell that he didn't really have much new to add to the formula since Brawl. Half of the time I really love what Sakurai does, and the other half I'm just so frustrated and perplexed (like why Chrom's hair doesn't change for his alternate costumes, or why Samus is not at all how anyone wants her to be who's actually played Metroid games). So anyway I'd welcome someone new directing the next game, and hopefully they'd realize that the online experience needs to be a waaaaaaay bigger priority, and like, actually work.

Yup indeed, and I appreciate the support for what was quite a downbeat (but honest) post on my part.

But yes, in this day and age, if you don't have a good online mode, then you don't have a good game. The online mode *is* the game.

I don't know about anybody else here, but I've noticed that Smash Online (which I foolishly tried again yesterday evening) has really quietened down. Maybe it's just my area (I live in the UK - and I know the system connects you primarily to players in the same region, maybe even the same city), but it's happened a lot quicker than it did for Smash 4. It's very noticeable and very significant.

Certainly, fellow Smashers who are friends of mine are not playing it as often as they used to, if at all. The reasons are always the same: it never gives you the games you want and / or it runs too sluggishly.

What a balls-up this has been. If I knew then what I know now, I would not have spent money on this title.

Maybe there's still hope with version 3.0...but I fear it will be yet more window-dressing that doesn't go anywhere near addressing the game's fundamental problems.

 

[Ze Diglett]

I don't know about anybody else here, but I've noticed that Smash Online (which I foolishly tried again yesterday evening) has really quietened down. Maybe it's just my area (I live in the UK - and I know the system connects you primarily to players in the same region, maybe even the same city), but it's happened a lot quicker than it did for Smash 4. It's very noticeable and very significant.

Certainly, fellow Smashers who are friends of mine are not playing it as often as they used to, if at all. The reasons are always the same: it never gives you the games you want and / or it runs too sluggishly.

It's not just you. Last night, I was on a Quickplay tear trying out of a bunch of new characters (big mistake, in retrospect), and I ran into several people multiple times over the span of just a few hours. (I remember there was one specific Ganondorf player who the game kept matching me up against, for some reason.) That's not indicative of a thriving online scene, if you ask me. Hell, several times, I even left a room only to immediately get matched into the exact same room. Excuse me for not wanting to sit through another PowerPoint or online slumber party, I guess.

And then, of course, there's the even bigger issue of the game just not putting me in my preferred gamemode most of the time. The whole night, I was consistently looking for Stock team battles on Battlefield with items off, yet most of the time, I'd end up in an FG 1v1 or a FFA on some janky stage. Hell, some of the games I got matched into were running Time instead of Stock. TIME.

It's painful how non-functional the system is, really. At this point, I wouldn't even be opposed to just bringing back For Fun and For Glory and leaving it at that. Sure, it's polarizing as all hell and only really benefits hyper casuals and competitive players, but at this point, it's abundantly clear that saying "**** it" and throwing everyone together in one pool is far worse. Ideally, I'd say they should bring back For Glory and For Fun, but keep the custom rulesets and let you customize your preferred rules within those two modes - for instance, you can choose between Stock, Time, or Stamina in FF, but are limited to Stock in FG (because honestly, who in FG is gonna wanna play either of the other two?); you can choose between FFAs or Teams in FF, or 1v1s or Teams in FG; you can choose any stage preference in FF, but only Battlefield or Omega stages in FG; crap like that. That way, you'd still maintain the customizable experience that Ultimate's system provides (which is a good idea in concept, the execution of it was just abysmal), but without the obnoxious crossover between casual and competitive players the system has now. I think that alone would solve a lot of the problems people are having with the Online in this game.

Oh, also, preferred rulesets need to be a lot more strict in terms of how rigidly the matchmaker follows them. At the very least, you should be able to play your preferred gamemode consistently; I can't tell you how annoying it is to go looking for some team matches to get a feel for a new character, only to get matched into a FG-style 1v1 against some guy using his main of 4 years who just creams me instantly. It might make wait times longer, but frankly, I'd rather wait five minutes for a match I'm going to actually enjoy than immediately get matched into a game that I can't stand playing.

 

[lucasla]

Yup indeed, and I appreciate the support for what was quite a downbeat (but honest) post on my part.

But yes, in this day and age, if you don't have a good online mode, then you don't have a good game. The online mode *is* the game.

I don't know about anybody else here, but I've noticed that Smash Online (which I foolishly tried again yesterday evening) has really quietened down. Maybe it's just my area (I live in the UK - and I know the system connects you primarily to players in the same region, maybe even the same city), but it's happened a lot quicker than it did for Smash 4. It's very noticeable and very significant.

Certainly, fellow Smashers who are friends of mine are not playing it as often as they used to, if at all. The reasons are always the same: it never gives you the games you want and / or it runs too sluggishly.

What a balls-up this has been. If I knew then what I know now, I would not have spent money on this title.

Maybe there's still hope with version 3.0...but I fear it will be yet more window-dressing that doesn't go anywhere near addressing the game's fundamental problems.

Sure. Because the online in this game is simply terrible on my region, I can only play 1v1 matches online properly and I still have some lag in many matches. Other than that, I only appreciate the game in the full potential in the few days of the year that I reunite friends in my house to play. But even that way is not good enough cause I want to play with better oponents, and I cant with them because they are casual smash players. I'm also tired of people defending the game, like if it's my fault or fault of the entire world that the internet of everybody around me is bad enough for Smash, but for some miracle is not bad enough for PUBG or Fortinite, games that connects 100 players, or Overwatch, a game that connects 12 players, or Rainbow Six Siege, a game that connects 10 players, all of them with no problem at all, but because the development team of Smash decided to use a P2P system, a game that needs to connect 4 people doesnt work properly, and I need to accept how it works (go to hell all this people), because it's somehow justifyed by the P2P system. No, it's not.

 

[meleebrawler]

I'm bAAAaaaack!

Before I bring up what I wanted to say, some quick replies:

This seems about right for my experience too, which is frankly unacceptable.


Oh man....s*** like this happens to me all the time too. Also like you TheDuke54 I prefer team battles. I played the crap out of Wii U For Glory team battles but trying to do the same thing in Ultimate is apparently futile. I've even accepted that stock battles are more common than time, so I currently have my preferred rules set to stock team battles, no items. I hardly ever get it.

Anyway, just came here to say that I still hate Ultimate's online and it's utter trash. I know this post is long but try to read it quick like how I would be ranting.
I like the gameplay of Ultimate and I love that it's got so many characters to play which is why I keep coming back, but I get burned every single time. And before anyone else says it again, I've tried ALL of the suggestions. I've tried background matchmaking, I've tried arena battles, etc.--it's all trash, nothing makes any difference. Actually that's a lie; I found that when I use a character that's NOT in Elite Smash, I do seem to get my preferences slightly more often. So I should regret that I'm so good I guess?? Because if I want to play battles with characters I both like to play as and win with, I'm punished by being put into a pool of players where I can't as often play the way I want to. Battle after battle in Quickplay will be something like 1v1, 3 player ffa, 4 player ffa, items on, even had a couple of stamina battles the other day, I've also had a couple battles where it was just special flags which is maybe funny for 2 minutes but then gets super annoying, and THEN MAYBE a couple battles of 2v2....but then half of that time items are still on or it's on some stupid scrolling stage that makes it unplayable. I don't even mind some "non-legal" stages but Mushroomy Kingdom I swear to Tabuu is the worst one. And then, after a team battle, if someone leaves, it often turns into a 2v1 battle which is SUPER FUN.

So then after that mess I'll maybe try to play in an arena battle where at least I can get a 2v2 more reliably (or at least that's the idea). So last night this is what happened, which is pretty typical: Join an arena, wait for players to finish battle; they finish and it's time for me to join the match, and I get a connection error (pretty sure they kicked me). So I join a different arena, wait for the players to finish battle; once it's time for me to play I get a connection error. So I join another arena this time with only 3 players so maybe I can just jump right in. 2 players are fighting, 1 is spectating, so I wait. When the battle is over, the 1 person spectating doesn't leave the bench and the others want to start a 3 player ffa. I leave, because I want to play 2v2. Join a fourth arena and after waiting again, finally get to play a couple 2v2 battles. Unfortunately items were on but at this point I had been waiting so long that I was just happy to be playing the game. After a couple battles, there is some glitch or connection issue when trying to start the battle and the arena gets shut down. ARENA BATTLES ARE ALSO TRASH. Different type of trash than Quickplay, but still trash.

Just for fun, I thought I'd boot up my Wii U and see if I could play For Glory team battles with anyone. Within maybe a minute or two I found a full room for FG team battle and played a few matches. It was fun! And you know what I could do? Besides actually being able to quickly play a team battle with no items on, I could taunt, I could change my character between matches, the game wouldn't force me to start playing a 3/4 player ffa, and also the game automatically mixes up whose team you're on so you don't get stuck with a certain player for better or worse. Oh and also, even though I was connecting with wifi, there was essentially no lag. First try. Smash Ultimate took a good--albeit not perfect--online experience and messed it up so hard that the Wii U ends up having done it waaay bettter. (And in any sentence where you can say the Wii U did it better, you really need to rethink what you've done. jk I love my Wii U)

I know version 3.0 of Smash Ultimate is apparently adding in some other modes and whatnot, but I REALLY hope the online gets fixed. And by 'fixed' I mean go back to what actually worked. Add in "For Glory" modes dedicated to 1v1 and 2v2, no items, no hazards. The other existing modes can replace the former "For Fun" mode well enough I think. Also let us add CPUs in Arena Battles. Thanks that is all.

I didn't see you try making your own arenas in there. Or using Anther's or some other media to find like-minded people if you're super paranoid about jerks joining. Because with all the options you're given to fight with, arranging things before hand is the only way to ensure people are 100% on board with how you want to play, online or off.